Sometimes ya' just get lucky

[offshore44]

I have been doing some experimenting lately with alloys to see what works and what doesn't. Wheel weights are getting harder to get a hold of around here, sooo...

I read up on what the old timers back in the 1800's used for alloy and found that depending on what they were shooting at they used much higher tin percentages than what we typically use today. On the order of 5% and higher. Went out and got some unleaded solder to use as an alloy. All of the stores locally were out of the usual stuff I use. I bought some Oatey lead free silver solder on a whim. The MSDS says that it is about 95% or more tin, 1 - 5% silver and 1 - 2% bismuth.

I threw half a pound into 9 1/5 pounds of pure lead shooting for that 5% tin mark and OH MY GOSH!

The first two boolits out of a cold mold were shootable. As the mold heated up to normal casting temperatures, the boolits only got better. Nice crisp edges, perfect sprue cuts, very consistent looking with no wrinkles, voids, crud or other defects. It's a good RCBS mold, but it has never produced this quality of boolit before. Very shiny and uniform. The diameters are very consistent at 0.4515". That is what my 50/50 WWPb alloy drops out at. I ran the casting tempo fast and never could get them to frost more than a very little bit on the nose. Wiped right off with a finger.

Has anyone else tried this stuff to make boolit alloy?

Boolit: RCBS 45-230-RN drops at 0.451 nominal. For 45 ACP.
Diameter: as cast, 0.4515"
Casting temp: 850° F (Maybe 100° hotter than I usually cast at)
Hardness: Haven't checked yet, but they can be slightly marked with a fingernail.
Notes: It seems to work better running it hotter rather than colder. I turned the temp down to get the alloy to my normal casting range and it started to get a little bit of a clumpy surface on it. Not really any oxidation or skim on the surface of the pot when it was at 850° though. No fluxing was really required.

[fredj338]

20-1 lead/tin alloys cast great bullets, it just gets pricey w/ high tin cost these days.

[offshore44]

No doubt... It's probably cheaper to order from Rotometals. That very small percentage of sliver in the solder sure seemed to make a difference in the castability though.

Now...was it werewolves or vampires that you used silver bullets on...

[40Super]

Both. The silver may harden the alloy up also.

[Defcon-One]

How does 4.9% Tin sound?

I doubt that the Silver is doing much. May make it a bit harder. Tin relieves the surface tension in the molten metal and allows it to flow better. Better flow means better fill-out. I gotta say that 850 sound a bit hot to me. I'd be trying 725-750 for casting.

But if it is working great with no frosting, don't change a thing!

[Sonnypie]

Now...was it werewolves or vampires that you used silver bullets on...

Werewolves - Silver Bullets.
Vampires - A Stake through the heart.

If you forget, you'll get torn apart, or drained. :holysheep

I can get Magnum Shot for $35 a bag at a local trap range.
Magnum shot has 4-6% Antimony in it.
To it, I add a slurp of Lead-Free Solder from a roll. I've done 24" to 6'.
Bumpo told me the 24" amounted to .33%. (1/3 of a percent? Sacra-blue!)
When Bumpo posted that I cracked up! [smilie=l:
But even that tiny amount seemed to me to make a difference.
But I like that for my 45 ACP, 230g RN loads.

Oh, and the BHN runs 11.8-12.1 for those.

[offshore44]

How does 4.9% Tin sound?

I doubt that the Silver is doing much. May make it a bit harder. Tin relieves the surface tension in the molten metal and allows it to flow better. Better flow means better fill-out. I gotta say that 850 sound a bit hot to me. I'd be trying 725-750 for casting.

But if it is working great with no frosting, don't change a thing!

What!? Oregon Trail cast bullets is marketing hype!? I thought that they were superior in every respect!!!! Oh, sorry, got carried away there for a moment. Pheeuuuwwww....

Actually, I was wondering if the silver in the solder would hurt the alloy any more than anything. I agree that there is probably not enough there to make a huge difference, but then you only need what - a half a percent of arsenic to effect bullet hardening?

I usually try to cast in that range, or a bit colder, with a hot mold. It's a little tougher to get perfect boolits out that way, but they are just a little bit larger in diameter. I have a .44 mag and an 8mm that need the couple of extra ten-thousandths.

4.9% sounds about right. I call it 5% because if the alloy was actually assayed, it is probably not going to be that precise. One significant digit is about it for my precision these days.

[offshore44]

Werewolves - Silver Bullets.
Vampires - A Stake through the heart.

If you forget, you'll get torn apart, or drained. :holysheep

I can get Magnum Shot for $35 a bag at a local trap range.
Magnum shot has 4-6% Antimony in it.
To it, I add a slurp of Lead-Free Solder from a roll. I've done 24" to 6'.
Bumpo told me the 24" amounted to .33%. (1/3 of a percent? Sacra-blue!)
When Bumpo posted that I cracked up! [smilie=l:
But even that tiny amount seemed to me to make a difference.
But I like that for my 45 ACP, 230g RN loads.

Oh, and the BHN runs 11.8-12.1 for those.

Well, my bank account is drained - does that count?

That's about the range that I run my .45 ACP at as well. General rule of thumb is 1/2 WW and 1/2 Pb with a little tin thrown in. I have discovered that neither of the 1911's in the house are particularly picky about hardness as long as you stay under about 12 Bhn or so. The funny thing is, the 458 win mag likes the same alloy for paper patched. The .44 mag, not so much. It complains about anything UNDER 12 Bhn. The 8mm wants 14 Bhn and up.

It's fun to mess about with this stuff.

[mold maker]

Fun to have the ability, to make what you want/need, without tying up a fortune in inventory.

[Defcon-One]

Vampires - A WOODEN Stake through the heart.

Just a heads up, incase!

[Fredx10sen]

Vampires - A WOODEN Stake through the heart.

Just a heads up, incase!

Wood bullets from the 40's that were used for training? Just sayin :confused: Could work :)

[offshore44]

OK, so I have some questions about fitting a wooden bullet...

It that bore diameter or groove diameter for bet fit...+0.001 or so over? For a duplex load, paper patched, in the ever popular French pinfire would you use oak, pine, cedar or ash? I going for 3,200 fps, can I expect wooding? :)

[oneokie]

OK, so I have some questions about fitting a wooden bullet...

It that bore diameter or groove diameter for bet fit...+0.001 or so over? For a duplex load, paper patched, in the ever popular French pinfire would you use oak, pine, cedar or ash? I going for 3,200 fps, can I expect wooding? :)

By duplex load, are you thinking about a wooden bullet ahead of a cast boolit?

I wouldn't do that. Too much possibility of the lead wedging into the base of the wood and causing bore obstruction.

[John Boy]

Col Harrison, NRA Technical Staff in 1979 wrote the book Cast Bullets. He stated that more than 2% tin is a total waste and not necessary. Your better fill out is probably the result of the bismuth. Then again, if bismuth is your thought to mix in the alloy, the going price is $21.50 a pound plus shipping v tin at $15 a pound

I've cast Bhn 13.5 WW's with 0.5% tin that were picture perfect bullets

[offshore44]

By duplex load, are you thinking about a wooden bullet ahead of a cast boolit?

I wouldn't do that. Too much possibility of the lead wedging into the base of the wood and causing bore obstruction.

Nah, smokeless and black powder...just being silly. :-D

[offshore44]

Col Harrison, NRA Technical Staff in 1979 wrote the book Cast Bullets. He stated that more than 2% tin is a total waste and not necessary. Your better fill out is probably the result of the bismuth. Then again, if bismuth is your thought to mix in the alloy, the going price is $21.50 a pound plus shipping v tin at $15 a pound

I've cast Bhn 13.5 WW's with 0.5% tin that were picture perfect bullets

The increased tin content is for the other end of the bullet's flight. The really old timers would vary the tin content to control expansion vs. penetration depending on what the target was and how tough the hide, skeletal structure, musculature of the intended target was. I am sure that there are cheaper ways to achieve the same results.

The previous poster is completely correct. At $20 a pound for the silver solder, this isn't going to be the usual thing to do.

[runfiverun]

elmer cast his lead tin alloys at 725*.
tin adds hardness but keeps the malleability.
unlike antimony that adds hardness but brittleness.
it's a cost tradeoff thats been exploited for 100 years.