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BT Sniper
03-16-2012, 05:34 PM
I'm working on printed sets of instructions to include with the purchase of my dies. Here is a look at first draft for the 40 cal one step dies. Please feel free to look it over and make any sugestions as to how I might simplify it or make them better or if I may have left somthing out. I'll contine to improve upon these instructions and even add pictures to this thread (and future printed instruction sets in future) for easier understanding.

Thanks

BT

p.s. Edits and corrections are posted in bold red type. Thanks Guys!





BTSniper 40 cal Swage Die



Dear valued customer,

Congratulations on the purchase of your new BTSniper one step 40 cal swage die. You now have the ability to make a life time supply of bullets, from nothing more then scrap brass and lead, and take control of your shooting needs. In a very sort amount of time you will recover every penny spent on this purchase and start actually saving money. The more you make the more you shoot, the more you shoot the more you save and the more money you save the happier you will be. If you are not %100 satisfied with your purchase simply return for a full refund with 30 days of receiving your purchase.


I have spent three years perfecting this process to provide you the absolute best set of tools I can make. I believe this is the absolute best 40 cal swage die available. You will not find an easier or cheaper way to make perfect 40 cal JHP bullets so let’s get started!

Step 1. Expand annealed 9mm brass

Step 2. Seat a .356 120 grain cast boolit lead core

Step 3. XTP notch top of jacket (skip step 3 and proceed to step 4 if not making notched bullets)

Step 4. Form bullet

Step 5. Eject bullets, load and go shooting!

That is it! Yes, it is that simple but for those of you that may need a bit more info lets go into further detail.




Notes, tips and further explanation.


Step 1.

Anneal the 9mm brass anyway you like so long as the entire case glows, using direct flame is preferred. Once the case glows you are ready to move on to the next one. Let case air cool or drop in water, both ways produce the same soft brass. Matter of fact drop them into a bath of hot water with some citric acid in it to help clean the brown tarnish from the anneling process off the brass case. After the case is dry you will now get better results from your prefered method of tumble cleaning the brass should you chose to.

Use the appropriate shell holder to hold the 9mm in your press. Postion universal die with expanding mandrel in your press till the exposed mandrel stops just above the top of the shell holder. This will get you close to the proper setting. Expand the 9mm till mandrel bottoms out on bottom of brass case and adjust die for repeated results. Perfectly annealed 9mm brass will not feel like any work is being done in this step. Try a piece of regular 9mm brass to see the difference. Any brass that is not annealed will be noticed and should be discarded in this first step.



Step 2.

Cast 120 grain .356 boolits to use for cores. I prefer the Lee 6 cavity molds. Use as soft as lead as possible. Wheel weight is fine but certainly no harder then the 10-11BNH of wheel weight alloy. The softer the lead the less ware and stress is exerted on all your equipment. Simply drop the lead bullet in the expanded case then bump it back into the expanding mandrel only enough to push it into the bottom of the case. Do not use excessive force or the case expand. Combine step 1 and 2 back to back while you have the 9mm in the shell holder.

Other boolit molds and weights will work but I recommend and set up the dies using 120 grain cast boolit cores. Any heavier core will make longer bullets and we need to keep these bullets .700 in length or shorter. Typical projectiles made in this die average about .685 in length. I consider .700 to be the absolute maxe length bullet to shoot out of a 40 S&W.


Step 3.

Replace internal components of the universal die with the XTP insert. With the 9mm brass in the shell holder extend the ram to the top of the stroke of the press. Position XTP/universal die in the press till the teeth of the notch punch contacts the top of the jacket of the 9mm brass. Retract the ram and tighten the universal die 2 additional turns. This will get you close to the max available notch possible. Adjust to your desired amount of XTP notch you wish to produce on finished bullet. If too much notch is applied in this step the jacket will expand to big to insert in point form die. Check to make sure your notched cases will be able to insert into the die without problem.


Step 4.

The point form die is preset for a RCBS Supreme press. The small top lock ring is also preset to your exact die and NEVER needs to be adjusted. This small ring is set under pressure while I formed a bullet. Loosen only while the die is under pressure from a formed bullet. Any adjustments needed to this die should only be done with the 7/8-14 large lock ring. Should you need to take apart your die for what ever reason make a witness mark with ink to know where to return the settings to. The ejection pin is a EXACT length. This length is exactly the length where the top ejection pin head bottoms out on the top stop bolt. This also serves as a tool for you to be able to reset the adjustments of the top stop bolt of your die.

Position point form die in your press and base punch in the shell holder slot. I can’t be sure all RCBS presses are the same so don’t assume no adjustments will be needed. With everything in place use one of the JHP bullets I provided you with and apply some of supplied lube to entire surface of bullet. Run bullet into the die and adjust, if needed, till you are able to feel a little pressure at top of stroke while forming bullet. The bullet I supplied you with was formed in your exact die from annealed 9mm brass and a pure lead core case from a lee .356 120 grain mold. This will get you close. Now take seated cores and jackets from step 3 and attempt to form in your die (apply lube to EVERY BULLET formed in this die). You should be able to form this bullet while seated using one hand. It should not require excessive force and will be similar to FL sizing a large mag brass case. Adjust die till your bullets look like the ones I provided or bullets you are happy with.


Step 5.

Use a hammer or mallet to eject the now formed bullet and move on to next bullet. My auto eject will eject set up will eject the bullet easily and quietly. When you get tired of swinging a hammer to eject the bullet my auto eject is a very good tool to use. It will double your production rate while reducing fatigue and will not wake the wife, kids, or neighbors.




Precautions Dos and Don’ts

Always use anhydrous lanolin based swage lube with every bullet formed.

Keep lube, jackets and bullet cavity of die clean. Every so often swab inside of die with a Q-Tip

Do not attempt to swage anything you shouldn’t be with these dies. Like solid copper etc.

Use standard reloading precautions when loading these bullets. Start with published starting load data for next heavier bullet. Example, if you are making 185 grain bullets start with load data for the 200 grain bullet and work up watching for pressure signs. These bullets will be longer then commercial bullets of same weight. This is because of the thick solid base of brass and larger HP. I have done much R&D work to design the very best combination of all factors involved. Be sure your projectiles are under .700 in total length when used in the 40S&W and do not seat them any deeper then needed to feed and function from your magazine.

Bullets seated to deep in the case are at risk of contacting the thicker part of the case at the base and cause a bulge. Always check loaded rounds for fit and function in your firearm and never force the slide/blot closed on a live round and attempt to fire. A .700 length projectile seated to proper SAAMI length specs will function safely in the 40 S&W Be sure to check for any variables such as different case manufactures as some are thicker than others.

Check bullet diameters to be sure they are always safe for use in your firearm. I make sure every die I sell produce bullets from .3995 to .4008 at the max in diameter.

Store dies in dry location when not in use

If at any time something doesn’t “feel” right when forming a bullet STOP! Eject the bullet and throw it a side to be remelted. Figure out what was wrong before continuing. Typically it is the result of a case that was not fully annealed that slipped into the batch.

If you get frustrated at any time STOP! Take a break and come back later. Any problems will magically fix themselves when you return. I do not expect you will have any problem at all but I mention this only from firsthand experience.

Clearly label and separate all annealed brass from safe brass of the same caliber! If you were gone tomorrow would someone be able to determine which brass to keep out of circulation? A fully annealed brass case live fired is dangerous to everyone!

Be sure all cases are fired and not primed before annealing.

Thank you for the purchase of this high quality set of dies. It is my wish that you will be completely satisfied with their use and the bullets they make. Please feel free to pass on your experience with this set of dies and post any reviews or range results you wish. Should you ever have any problems or concerns please feel free to contact me at any time.

I look forward to hearing back from you.

Good shooting and Swage On

Sincerely,

Brian Thurner

Last edited and current as of 3/17/2012

BT_Sniper@hotmail.com

DukeInFlorida
03-16-2012, 06:33 PM
Brian,

Step one should mention the use of the bell mouthing die from your sizing set, or the expander that comes with the universal notching tool, which ever you have.

Step two should include the result weight of 187 grains if you use that core. And, that if you want a 165 grain result, use a 105 grain core.

Wayne Smith
03-16-2012, 07:17 PM
Include pics of the contents of the set with nomenclature. "Universal die with expanding mandrel" doesn't sound like the one step forming die. Is it in the set or something purchased separtely?

Step 2, paragraph two, line two, "wee" should be "we"

BulletFactory
03-16-2012, 07:48 PM
yes, pics definitely, high quality with good lighting.

khamill2000
03-16-2012, 08:49 PM
Suggest specifying the Lee Mold part #

Blammer
03-16-2012, 09:24 PM
step 2 second paragraph

recommend is the correct spelling.

BT Sniper
03-17-2012, 01:34 AM
Thanks guys. Keep the opinions coming. I want to make these instructions short, sweet and simple yet hard to misunderstand. I'll have pictures and figure numbers to add soon. I wanted to have somthing in your hand to refer to when you have the dies in hand as well as a current thread for you all to check out as well.

Thanks

BT

Gunfighter
03-17-2012, 03:25 AM
Maybe some pictures ....

BT Sniper
03-17-2012, 04:53 AM
Yep I'll get pictures. I got lots :) I didn't have time yet to put the pics in place. Just a written first draft, pics and figures soon to follow. Kind of looking for anything that might be confusing to anyone that hasn't swaged, or anything I may have missed from those that have. Or from those of you that received a set of dies from me, especially this 40 cal, how do you think I could make your first experience even easier and even more positive? Or any thing that may have stumped the first time swager that I didn't cover well enough.

I'll get pics taken and loaded ASAP. At the moment I have some BTSniper 40 cal sets shipped and a few more ready to ship to customers. I don't like holding up shipping orders to wait for a set of written instructions yet I realize the instructions are crutial, obviously. In three years there has not been a moment for me that a die hasn't been on order so I have always had work that needs to be done. I am certainly greatful for that and welcome many more future orders. I'll be making it my goal to include very good yet simple instructions with every die set so the customer will have somthing written to resort to when they are not here brousing the forum. :)

Bit of rambling here I guess. Was the format at least easy to follow? Did any of you swagers feel lost?

Well thanks for the coments and help. I see what I can do and continue to offer great swage dies and products.

Good Shooting and Swage On!

BT

BulletFactory
03-17-2012, 10:51 AM
youtube?

john hayslip
03-17-2012, 11:24 AM
I think I'm correct when I say if you get the case glowing you are making it dead soft rather than annealing it. Either way, you don't mention how to cool it, by air or water dropping.

ReloaderFred
03-17-2012, 12:29 PM
Annealing is the changing of the temper of the metal. Even glass can be tempered. It doesn't matter with brass whether you water cool or air cool. The results are the same. Dead soft is the desired result.

Hope this helps.

Fred

BT Sniper
03-17-2012, 12:37 PM
Yep air or water cooled = same results.

BT

starbits
03-17-2012, 03:11 PM
Check bullet diameters to be sure they are always safe for use in your firearm. I make sure every die I sell produce bullets from .3095 to .4008 at the max in diameter.

That seems to be quite a range for max diameter on a 40S&W.

Starbits

runfiverun
03-17-2012, 03:31 PM
thats about a thousandth of an inch.
if the die is on the large side don't squeeze so hard on the final shaping.

Brian, you might wanna add another page,and give some pointers on adjusting the dies.

DukeInFlorida
03-17-2012, 03:38 PM
He made a typing error.

Wayne Smith
03-21-2012, 03:22 PM
You wrote these very specifically for the 40 cal dies. You might want to highlight or otherwise mark in your copy those sentences that need to be changed for the .44 and .45 dies. You can then make these few changes and have the same form ready for those dies.

scrapcan
03-21-2012, 04:53 PM
you have a few extra words in sentences one of step 5.

lukewmtdew
03-22-2012, 05:15 AM
So the case is sized fully before u drop in the lead?

BT Sniper
03-22-2012, 11:58 AM
The case is just expanded so the core will drop in place before forming the bullet. Should make the OD about .390 and the ID .370 so a .356 core will easily fit.

Make sence?

BT

lukewmtdew
03-22-2012, 12:29 PM
When does the od get to .399-.408?

BT Sniper
03-22-2012, 06:10 PM
.3995-.4008

Your formed bullet after exiting the swage die should be at this diameter.

The jacket after expanding with teh universal die and expander mandrel will be about .390 then the bullet is formed in the die in the last step that will swage it out to the final 40 cal diameter.

The brass must be fully annealed. The rim of the 9mm brass will be teh last thing to expand. Take carfull measurements of this rim. When it expands to any diameter from .395 to final bullet diameter you are good to go.

Did I answer your question?

BT

lukewmtdew
03-22-2012, 09:57 PM
Yes thank u! I'm kinda slow until I start doing it!

lukewmtdew
03-22-2012, 10:03 PM
Now I gotta keep reading on how to anneal all this brAss.....

a.squibload
03-23-2012, 04:10 AM
So the case is sized fully before u drop in the lead?

Maybe this will clarify?
Dont "size" the fired cases like you would for reloading,
leave 'em expanded from being fired, then use the expander to make 'em
larger so the core (boolit) will fit in easier.
I like to expand and slightly bell the cases before annealing, works OK after too.
Been using a 357 expander die for this, and to seat the core.

To anneal the cases you can heat the case head 'til it glows,
the rest of the case will be hot enough. Doesn't need to glow bright.
I stand 'em on the case mouth and heat 'em with a propane torch.
If you line 'em up in a row the next one gets preheated,
it goes pretty fast. They will melt if you keep the flame on too long!
Some guys use an oven, kiln, or BBQ grill.
I tried a wire fry basket over the burner I smelt with, seems to work.

Hope this helps, hope I didn't misinterpret "size" to mean "make smaller"!

lukewmtdew
04-03-2012, 03:22 PM
do i have to trim the cases to a certain length before i anneal them?!?!?!

BT Sniper
04-03-2012, 03:41 PM
Not if you use a 120 grain core.

GRUMPA
04-03-2012, 04:31 PM
do i have to trim the cases to a certain length before i anneal them?!?!?!

As BT said, but I'll add something also. A person generally wont need to trim "UNLESS" they start changing the core weight for lighter boolits. I trim mine down to almost .380 length and use a 116gr core for a final weight of 175gr. Of course that's with a case weight starting out at 60gr, YEP!!! I weight all of my cases first thing.

lukewmtdew
04-04-2012, 03:06 AM
Hhhhmmmm well I annealed brass today.... What is all that flaky stuff when u drop them in water? I tried dropping in citric acid as well....I got through About 200 before I think I needed to change that water (I only mixed a quart) the citric acid bath does make them a lot cleaner not perfect though......now to expand and cast a bunch of cores!

a.squibload
04-05-2012, 03:45 AM
Not sure. Don't need to drop 'em in water, just let 'em air cool
(water won't change the softness / temper of the brass).
I use citric acid too, then dry, then tumble, they come out nice.
Can use the acid solution 'til it starts to turn green, but it is cheap.

My Lee 95 mold comes out around 110 gns with soft lead, for that core
I trim the 9mm cases to the same length as a 380 case (.677" I think?).
They come out around 170 gns finished.

I like the light ones but the heavy ones are easier, no trimming!
Also tried the heavier cores with trimmed brass, more exposed lead
mainly to see how they look. Not sure if they're "better" in any way,
just looks good.
The 44s from 40s look pretty good with short brass and some lead exposed.
These were tumbled:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-LJWTe1Z80vE/TcNwDs5GD4I/AAAAAAAAALs/NhoLmGFjZZA/s640/Semi-jacket44.JPG

PS: my 40s have been coming out at .4005" dia., including rim.
The heavy (untrimmed) boolits are a little longer. When loaded in CBC brand brass
they showed a little bulge in the case from the rim of the bullet,
visible but almost not measureable (discussed in a previous thread).
The CBC brass seems to have a thicker taper coming up from the case head.
Point being that the rim of the boolit doesn't NEED to be .400, there will be
plenty of bearing surface on the rest of the boolit. If you see a bulge like this
you can back off on the swage pressure and they will still shoot fine!

lukewmtdew
04-10-2012, 09:19 PM
Those look really good! Do u tumble in corncob or walnut shells? I'm about ready to start swaging!

lukewmtdew
04-10-2012, 09:21 PM
Are those all 44s?

GRUMPA
04-10-2012, 11:07 PM
On 1 of the case I can make out the word luger, so I would take it those are 40's. These are the 40's I make from 9mm brass.

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa341/grumpaboo/100_0156720x540.jpg

And I tumble my stuff with the stainless media only.

lukewmtdew
04-10-2012, 11:58 PM
Nice grumpa! Have u guys had much experience with non American brass for jackets? This guy I've been buying from take the american head stamped 9 mm and sells the other ones cheaper

GRUMPA
04-11-2012, 12:18 AM
When doing this type of a thing with them the only thing that makes a difference is the weight of the case itself, nothing more nothing less. So if you can get them cheaper by whatever means I'ld jump on it.

I have over 22k 9mm's so I'm not going to run out anytime soon. The booger for me is weighing all those case on a beam scale, dang that takes a lot of time to do.

I'm fussy with weights, so I takes notes on weight, both for the core and case, and length of the case because I make mine lighter than most.

There's a lot of foreign brass out there which generally run heavy, this is where having more than 1 mould or a mould that you can adjust the core weight on will really be a benefit.

a.squibload
04-11-2012, 12:20 AM
Are those all 44s?

Sorry, just checked this thread again.
Only a few in the pic are 44s, most are 40s.
Tumbling causes the lead to look dark, but smooths out any "fins"
or voids near the jacket mouth.
I tumble with walnut shells, thinking of changing to corncob 'cause
I'm getting tired of the walnut pieces stuck in almost EVERY primer hole!

I suppose any 9mm luger brass would be the same dimensions?
Seems like they should work but I'm no expert.

lukewmtdew
04-11-2012, 12:23 AM
Yeah I bought a bunch of walnut bedding at the pet store I'd like to try the finely ground corn con but can't find it locally I didn't try that hard maybe I'll try again

lukewmtdew
04-11-2012, 12:24 AM
Lucky grumpa! 22k 9 mm brass so jealous!

BT Sniper
04-11-2012, 12:25 AM
[QUOTE=GRUMPA;1670081]

I have over 22k 9mm's so I'm not going to run out anytime soon. The booger for me is weighing all those case on a beam scale, dang that takes a lot of time to do.

[QUOTE]



Find yourself a digital scale if you can and if the elc will permit it. I can't imagine beam scale weighing everything.

Nice work, Good Shooting and Swage On!

BT

lukewmtdew
04-11-2012, 12:25 AM
Squib r u shooting a 40?

BT Sniper
04-11-2012, 12:29 AM
9mm brass doesn't take long to accumulate when people know your looking for it. Even then if you have to buy it you can usually find it for $20/K. That's 2 cents a piece! Shooting less then the price of 22lr!

I must have 20 gallons or more of the stuff myself! :)

BT

GRUMPA
04-11-2012, 12:34 AM
BT I'm working on it right now, I have a request in the WTB section now.

HEY!!!! what's everybody doing up so dang late, it's way past my bed time. Well the women folk are busy yacking, dang they can talk the ear off a wooden Indian, better stay on the computer till it dies down a bit.

BT Sniper
04-11-2012, 12:43 AM
Only 9:30. I must be getting old though. Used to work till 1-2am, now getting ready for bed too :)

Check out the latest 400 BTS pics! Took my dad shooting and we launched a few of these 40 cal 193 grain bullets with 75 grains of H-335 @ 3000 FPS!

Also shot some very good groups with my 9s 22 cal bullets.

BT

GRUMPA
04-11-2012, 12:47 AM
YEAH!!! I checked that out, kinda makes me wonder though, between clearing out ones sinuses on that beast and wondering if after 20 shots you need to make a visit to the optometrist to get you retinas re-attached is worth it.

BT Sniper
04-11-2012, 01:21 AM
Yeah, I don't expect I'll be shooting to many "full power" loads with the 400 BTS MAG. I expect I'll be shooting the BTS 40 (40-308) a lot more and expect I'll have first range results soon.

BT

GRUMPA
04-11-2012, 11:06 AM
Either the 40-308 or the 40-06 in my mind would be way better on both the wallet and the user.

Luke,
I got all my brass from just picking it up when I lived in Phoenix, you think I have alot of 9's you should see the buckets I have of the other stuff.

Here's a rundown of how I do my 40's
Clean each case
Weigh each case (for me I use a 59-60gr case)
Trim to .690
Anneal case
Expand case
Add 116gr pure lead core
Melt lead in case
Use notch die
Final form
Clean
Load
Use and have some fun with all the effort it took for you to make these things.

These things are super duper easy to make once you've done it.

a.squibload
04-11-2012, 10:40 PM
Squib r u shooting a 40?

Yep, a Kahr PM40, max. cartridge OAL is about 1.125" I think, longer boolits
reach farther into the case which doesn't leave a lot of room for powder.
Less case volume = higher pressure possible, so have to work up loads
from minimum a little at a time. That's another reason I like the light boolits
but so far no problems with heavy ones either.

Took a friend and his daughters to the range, the one girl spent most of the time
picking up brass for me. Got about half a bulging grocery bag, mostly 9mm.
Even if they're a little scratched they swage just fine!
Another friend called, he shoots .45acp so I save those for him, he has a box
of 9mm for me. I'll get a 45 some day.
Also everybody's looking for lead deals, not as dedicated as I am (OK, I'm lazy)
but every little bit helps.

Saw the pics and vid of the BT 400 Howitzer, that thing should have a remote
fire control! Mount it in a concrete bunker overlooking the beach...

BT Sniper
04-11-2012, 11:27 PM
Howitzer :) I like that!

BT