help needed for .357 rifle

[phonejack]

I am new to using cast bullets. Using 158 swc's with various charges of h110,
w/231 and unique. accuracy @50 yrds has proven awful. I am not having a problem with leading. All loads have been with nickel cases. Could the problem be that the crimp in the nickel cases are not expanding enough and deforming the driving bands thus causing large groups? Any advice appreciated, thanks

[felix]

Check for cartridge roundness, looking for wobbles as cartridge is rolled on plate glass. Uneven boolit insertion into the case is a likely culprit for your condition as stated. ... felix

[leadshooter5]

Quick check: Try to push one of your bullets through each chamber in turn. Choose size die that allows bullet to go through with firm but moderate pressue. If it falls or needs to be hammered through it is not sized correctly. I use 4gr W231 in a S&W M19 for a plinking load. You did not identify what type of gun you have, or your definition of "awful".

[454PB]

Leadshooter5, the title says it's a rifle.......with one chamber. I'm curious what rifle too. My Marlin 1894 shoots cast just fine.

However, since the rifle is shooting poorly and leading the barrel, determining bore size is the first step.

[uscra112]

Determine throat size. Then worry about groove diameter.

But we don't know how to help him, since we don't even know what rifle he's using. A pointer to one of the on-line reloading sources such as Glen Fryxell seems in order. A weeks worth of reading may get him on track.

[looseprojectile]

at a handfull of Federal nickel cases that were fired in my Rossi carbine. Strange as it seems some were straight and some had what looks like a very little bell.
All were crimped as little as I thought was needed to keep the boolit from going deeper when in the magazine.
Most of my loads are H 110 and 2400 and fairly hot.
I see no difference in accuracy between brass and nickel cases.
I do sometimes feel a little difference when seating boolits. Nickel seems thinner.
Sizing die diameter and expander diameter for cast boolits and jacketed are two different animals. I call it natural selection. Lee dies seem to be made closer to what I want for cast.
I size and load the largest diameter boolit that will chamber in my gun.
Most all those loads will not fit in my Ruger flat top Blackhawk as it has tight chambers.
How does it shoot factory loads?
I always use a gas checked boolit in the rifle.
Good luck in finding the answer to your problem. Hard to know if it is the gun or the ammo.


Life is good

[phonejack]

The rifle is a Rossi 24" barrel, it shoots 125 & 158 jacketed bullets just fine. Awful for me is 5" @50 yards. The jacketed loads will group into 1"

[looseprojectile]

It would seem it is your boolits that are the problem.
Several things are of the utmost importance to me.
Overall quality of the boolit after alloy selection and the diameter, lube and correct seating and crimp.
In my experience the powder charge, as long as it is inside the parameters in the book it should be good to go.

When I cast a few hundred boolits I cull all that have any discernable flaws.
Remelt them. I especially like to see square sharp bases even on the gas checked ones.

Lube can be most any of the popular commercial stuff. I make my own.
What method you use to lube and size your boolits is not as important as doing it correctly and consistently, make them all the same.

If you can't make it shoot a lot better after trying again PM me your address and I will send you a selection of boolits that work in my gun.
I have some SAECO 180 grain RNFP and some Ranch Dog 190 grain boolits that might be too long in your gun but I use 38 special cases and get nice groups. I also have four different SWCs that I dont use in my rifle.
They dont feed as well as the RNFPs.
I hope you can get it together.

Life is good

[357shooter]

What brand bullets are you using? Are they hard cast? Is the Rossi the lever action or another rifle?

158 SWC's isn't enough info to go on...

My 20insh Rossi lever action like the 158's loaded long, 1.620 OAL over 13.5 grains of H110 and a heavy crimp. Basically a full turn of crimp. Your bullets may not be able to seat that long, but it is something to try.

[fecmech]

This is a Rossi with a 30" twist, my two do not play well with 180 gr bullets at all. If it shoots jacketed well you should be able to get it shooting cast once you get things sorted out.

[Gray Fox]

I've got two of the new Rossi 16" .357s and they both shoot very well with the Lee 158 RNFP. One of them won't even feed the Lee 158 SWCGC, but shoots it as well as the other boolit if I single load it. My experience is that 2400 and H110/296 need a solid crimp for consistent combustion and accuracy. This also means you need to check cartridge overall length and trim as necessary to get that consistent crimp on successive reloads.

[uscra112]

You don't say how much H110. If you are using boughten boolits they are probably hard, and will need a good bump to get them to take the rifling. Would duplicate my long-ago experience shooting boughten boolits from my .35 Remington (Marlin 336 Microgroove). Nothing worked until I loaded 'em for about 1700 fps. THEN the patterns became groups.

[williamwaco]

at a handfull of Federal nickel cases that were fired in my Rossi carbine. Strange as it seems some were straight and some had what looks like a very little bell.
All were crimped as little as I thought was needed to keep the boolit from going deeper when in the magazine.
Most of my loads are H 110 and 2400 and fairly hot.
I see no difference in accuracy between brass and nickel cases.
I do sometimes feel a little difference when seating boolits. Nickel seems thinner.
Sizing die diameter and expander diameter for cast boolits and jacketed are two different animals. I call it natural selection. Lee dies seem to be made closer to what I want for cast.
I size and load the largest diameter boolit that will chamber in my gun.
Most all those loads will not fit in my Ruger flat top Blackhawk as it has tight chambers.
How does it shoot factory loads?
I always use a gas checked boolit in the rifle.
Good luck in finding the answer to your problem. Hard to know if it is the gun or the ammo.


Life is good

I have had very poor accuracy from .357s in either rifle or revolver with light crimps. A firm crimp will usually help the accuracy.

[northmn]

My Rossi 357 shot poorly untill I took the forearm off and lossened up the fit. It would walk the groups stright up. I also lossened the front ring. After that I could shoot 158 gr bullets fairly well in the gun.

DP

[fishnbob]

About the only way I can get any accuracy from cast RIFLE boolits is to sort them out by weight and group them accordingly. I don't have a RIFLE mold that will throw the same weight boolit in all cavities and I'm too busy fishin' to fixem. For what I paid for them, I really don't feel like I should have to fixem. Just my 2 cents worth.

[nanuk]

you don't happen to be using a Lee Factory Crimp die, would you?

[EdS]

My microgroove Marlin '94 in .357 shoots very good groups with J-word and with gas-check boolits. But, I've tried several plain base moulds and a couple of alloys in the 12 BHN area with only fair accuracy. BTW, I'm sizing .359. I plan to keep trying PB boolits, but at least I know that I have a couple of fall-back options. -Ed

[Slowpoke]

My microgroove Marlin '94 in .357 shoots very good groups with J-word and with gas-check boolits. But, I've tried several plain base moulds and a couple of alloys in the 12 BHN area with only fair accuracy. BTW, I'm sizing .359. I plan to keep trying PB boolits, but at least I know that I have a couple of fall-back options. -Ed

What lube are you using?

good luck

[Four Fingers of Death]

Some rifle just plumb don't like SWCs. Can yo get your hands on any other boolts to compare?

[lemming]

Phonejack -

My Rossi shoots very nicely *except* with 158 grain SWC. Suggest you try something like the Lee 125 grain round-nose flat point, which works well for me in front of 4 gr Bullseye for a good everyday target load at 25 and 50 yards.

From what you say, sounds to me like maybe your cast bullets are coming out too small. I size mine to 0.358" and discard any that don't touch the sides of the sizing die.

Ballistic tests have shown that damaged or malformed bullet bases harm accuracy much more than damage &c to, say, the bullet nose. It's easy to overlook a not-properly-filled-out base if the rest of the bullet comes out of the mould OK. That said, I haven't noticed any significant loss of accuracy from slovenly-cast bases at 25 or 50 yards.

Are you neck-expanding your cases enough? Sometimes, as the bullet is seated, if the case neck isn't properly expanded it can shave a thousandth of an inch or so off the bullet, resulting in undersized bullets and buckshot-pattern accuracy.

I don't crimp my loads, and haven't had any problems in consequence (so far). I stopped crimping many years ago when I had occasion to pull a badly-loaded round, and saw what a mess the crimping process had made of the bullet. That can't help accuracy, I said to myself, and stopped doing it.

[WinMike]

I have a Browning low wall in .357 that shoots just about everything and consequently, got a little casual about what loads and bullets to shoot. Then I bought a Uberti 1873 in the same caliber.

It's not your Rossi, but it is picky about which bullets to use. It won't chamber SWC, nor any bullet with a driving band in front of the crimping groove. Since I don't have any molds that fit the profile I need, I bought a batch of 158 gr. Laser Cast RNFP. They feed nicely, and an accurate (2" @ 75 yds) load has been 10 gr. Blue Dot.

Half were with a Lee factory taper crimp, the rest with a regular crimp. No difference in accuracy. About an average crimp.....i.e., I'm cheap, so I don't crimp really tight so as to prolong brass life.

[gundownunder]

At 50yds my 357 Marlin cowboy will shoot any Winchester factory ammo into one ragged hole all day and that opens to 1.5" with 38 spl. Here in Oz I couldn't afford to feed it on a full time factory diet.

When I switch to commercial cast, it shoots a variety of 158 gr bullets into a variety of groups from 5" to 15", and the Lee rnfp is no better
125 gr bullets will go 2.5" or worse with the best groups coming from bullets pushed hard with 2400 or 2205. The same goes for a home cast 135gr round nose
With a 180 grain commercial cast I can get 1.5" - 2" with Bluedot, 2400, and 2205, but it opens up some when I slow the bullets down.

I now feed it on pretty much a full time diet of heavy lead pushed hard and use the rifle mainly as my CLAS rifle, and my 32-20 as my pistol calibre rifle.

I've recently bought one of the group buy 360640 molds from Mihec. These bullets seem to be very popular and have proven accurate in the 357 rifle for many people on this forum. They cast to about 175gr from my range scrap which includes a lot of hard cast commercial scrap but as yet I haven't had time to do any load development but I've got my fingers crossed.