22lr Jackets Vs Copper Jacket for .22 cal?

[Utah Shooter]

Does anyone think that there is a huge difference in accuracy between the two? Maybe 300 yards out at the most, flat base 52 or 53 gr?

[Reload3006]

there are people who swear that 22lr jacketed bullets give them great accuracy I don't think they are lying. I have never gotten that good a result out of mine. With LR jackets the best I have ever been able to do is about 1MOA with copper jackets I can get 1/4MOA I get all the Accuracy I need out of 22brass for varmint hunting etc. I wouldn't use them for target work.

[DukeInFlorida]

Depends on what you are shooting them with.
If you shoot them out of a gun with 2 MOA accuracy, the best you're gonna get is 2 MOA accuracy.

Presuming that the two bullets are made to the same level of quality, and sized exactly the same, you should see very little difference between the two options.

300 yards sounds like you'll be doing competition shoots. I'd suggest sticking to match grade factory bullets for that. For plinking, the free, self manufactured bullets should do as well as your gun is able to shoot them.

[Lizard333]

Don't forget the other limiting factors with the brass jackets versus copper. The velocity limitations you have with the brass. You also do not get the consistency with brass that you would with a commercial jacket.

Take the federal brass I have been using. I have weighed them and they come in between 9.4 and 10.3 gns. Let's call that ten and make some 45 gn cores. Some of those 55 gn bullets are going to weigh between 54.4 and 55.3. Not huge, but can effect the accuracy with further distances. 100 yards not so much. 300, now it might show up quite a bit more.

[BT Sniper]

Velocity limitations????? I hope to explore this a bit more and disprove it as nothing more then a myth.

I think what those of us shooting these bullets have noticed, so far, is that they shoot more accurate at slower velocities, not that they come apart at higher. I have not fully tested this theory but I plan to. What I have done is shoot these 55 grain 22 cal brass jacketd bullets at 3500 FPS in a 9 twist and all of them hit the target and got me about 1.5 MOA, when I slowed them down to 3300 and 3100 I got under 1MOA and closer to .5 with the 3100 FPS load.

I do have some Sierra jackets .700 in length and plan to test them against brass jackets very soon.

I have noticed the Federal brass might be a bit thicker and weighs about .7 grains more on avarage. I think we will be able to make bullets just as good with the brass vs commercial jackets. Heck Sierra Match bullets limitations are +/- .3 grains.

Good shooting and swage on!

BT

[Utah Shooter]

I can get mine to just over half ov an inch at 100 yards.


Presuming that the two bullets are made to the same level of quality, and sized exactly the same, you should see very little difference between the two options.

300 yards sounds like you'll be doing competition shoots.

Good point duke. I would be using the same dies to make the projectiles so I would assume that same quality would be involved. Nah just wanna see how far I can push them.



Don't forget the other limiting factors with the brass jackets versus copper. The velocity limitations you have with the brass. You also do not get the consistency with brass that you would with a commercial jacket.


You know I think velocity factors in the .223 round there is no difference. Some say 3,000 fps and some say 3,200 fps. I have shot these at just over 3,300 fps and not seen any signs of tumbling or being "pulled apart". I

[Utah Shooter]

I have noticed the Federal brass might be a bit thicker and weighs about .7 grains more on avarage. I think we will be able to make bullets just as good with the brass vs commercial jackets. Heck Sierra Match bullets limitations are +/- .3 grains.

Good shooting and swage on!

BT

Yeah I was using CCI and my 55 gr projectiles out of a batch of 100 varied about .3 grains. I think I am going to try Midas or Eley brass and see how work.

[BT Sniper]

3480 FPS!
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060870-1.jpg


3180FPS
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060870-2.jpg



3100FPS
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060866.jpg


Factory Sierra 60 grain varmenter bullets
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060871-1.jpg



All these groups where shot while breaking in a new barrel/gun shot off a wobbly table. I hope to improve these groups when shooting off a better bench very soon.

Good shooting

BT

[BT Sniper]

I do have some 52 grain Sierra match bullets I maybe able to try and test some brass jacket bullets against. The local range only has 100 yrds availble though so I may have to wait till I get to a range with more distance to get a good test.

I think Helliman (think I got his screen name right) has shot brass jackets out of a 22-250 at close to 4K FPS, maybe a bit less, and still had all bullets hit target from what I read.

BT

[runfiverun]

i shot 5 shot a group from the 220 swift very similar to the group-c brian shows except the top "flyer" is over with the one on the right.
i weight sort my cast boolits when i am gonna shoot them at higher velocity,
so it was natural to throw some on the scale and sort out 10 within a .3 range.
they do shoot a bit better at @ 3100 fps.
it was just a quick trial run,
as i am still sorting out the cast high vel in the 22-250 and 220 swift.
maybe i'll throw a scope on one of the ar's and see what happens.

[MIBULLETS]

The biggest difference you will find between bullets made with 22 brass or commercial jackets is the jacket runout. Copper jackets such as Sierra's or J4 are so much better. In my experience you can expect groups about 30 - 50% larger with the brass jackets.

[gabe123]

Hey Brian, where did you get those targets? I like that they have an area to record load data & velocity. Are they available for download anywhere?

Thanks, Gabe

[BT Sniper]

http://www.accurateshooter.com/shooting-skills/targets/


Here you go. Lots of great targets. I do like the ones I have pictured above with spots for all the data.

BT

[heliman]

I have hit 4000 ft/sec out of my Rem 700 14 twist 22-250 with no ill effects other than my gun likes them better at 3300. This is exactly the same results as I get with Hornadays. Both are 55 gr. 60 gr are similar. .5 groups at 100yds at 3300, just under 1" at 4000 with consistant moa out to 300 yds, Might try some longer ranges this summer but can't see any surprises.

[DukeInFlorida]

Here's the thing:

Faster does not mean more accurate. Flatter trajectory does not mean more accurate.

The speed of the bullet needs to match the natural harmonics of the gun/barrel/stock, etc. Long detailed explanation for why.

You really need to do a "workup" to find the most accurate speed for your cartridge components and gun.

[gabe123]

http://www.accurateshooter.com/shooting-skills/targets/


Here you go. Lots of great targets. I do like the ones I have pictured above with spots for all the data.

BT

Thanks a bunch! I am heading there now. [smilie=2:

[algunjunkie]

An online friend of mine from France is making his match rounds from 22 rimfire hulls and is shooting them in competitions. Open sights and he is shooting sub half minute moa at 100 meters.

He is anal about the process but the results are phenomenal. He built his own tooling and worked up his own procedure but the results can't be questioned. And yes he places with them.

[Multigunner]

Bullet failure in flight is most often due to excessive throat erosion allowing blowby that heats up the jacket to the separtion point, ultra high velocity loads add increased bullet to bore friction to complete the problem.

I've seen photos of .220 Swift bullets disintegrating in mid air around one to two feet from the muzzle. The bullets used not being up to the task.

I would think that a jacket formed of .22 rf casings would be stronger than most common .22 centrfire jackets, but perhaps more prone to splitting if there are imperfections or too much stress on the bullet due to other factors.

Most complaints about accuracy of bullets jacketed with .22 rimfire brass seem to be due to the firing pin indentation not being fully ironed out during the forming operation.

Also it seems that whenever theres a necessary application of force the greater the force the greater the effect in variations in that force. This is noted in the subject of pull strength of a case neck. Variations in the ammount of force need to overcome the resistence of a crimped case neck show increasing effect on accuracy according to the level of the average pull strength.
I suspect variations in the resistence to bullet engraving by the rifling would also be in this category of things that affect consistency of point of impact from shot to shot.

[Utah Shooter]

An online friend of mine from France is making his match rounds from 22 rimfire hulls and is shooting them in competitions. Open sights and he is shooting sub half minute moa at 100 meters.

He is anal about the process but the results are phenomenal. He built his own tooling and worked up his own procedure but the results can't be questioned. And yes he places with them.

Yeah I caught that as well. These are some pretty impressive groups.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_183164f6bdc2eb2341.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=4533)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_183164f6bdc4e7db48.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=4534)

[runfiverun]

the bases are critical.
i have been using the core seating die to make them square, and not to just seat the core.
this really helped.
using the core swage die to get the core better and take the variations out of the ends helps too.
discarding bent jackets [or using them just for plinking]
and getting the insides completely clean helps.
making the jackets,and then sorting visually and by weight helps a lot.
it all matters a little,but the little stuff adds up.
you don't get as many bullets when done, but they are the best you can do.
same as buying the best.