Help me choose a powder 45 colt rifle

[ace1001]

I need a slower, clean burning powder for 92 Rossi. I have used Reloader 7, too much unburned powder. IMR 4227 and 4350 same thing. 2400 a little too fast. Any suggestions? Ace

[arkypete]

Must have the same rifle as I do. I use a 300 grain Saeco gas checked with 20 grains of H110, with Win.LR primers.
Jim

[dragonrider]

Here is a burn rate chart
http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html
My Sierra manual lists Unigue, SR4656, Blue Dot, No. 7, No 9, H110, 296 and IMR-4227.
Hope this helps.

[Lloyd Smale]

4350 is way to slow. You might want to try some lilgun.

[Bear4570]

I use a 300 gr bullet and H110 with great results.

[felix]

If your case expands a lot, meaning chamber too big, then switch to RL7 or 680 to reduce the peak pressure even more. RL7 at 25 grains, or 680 at 28 grains, same volume, should come to base of boolit. If not, make it so. Normal pistol primers are fine. ... felix

[ace1001]

I tried 4350 because it was at one end of the spectrum, and Red Dot from the other. A full case of 4350 was just an average cowboy load with lots of unburned powder. 10.8 g of Red dot was a good hot load, and accurate and clean but I thought it might blow up my vaqueros if I got mixed up. Is Lilgun clean burning? I use a 250g RNFP. Ace

[Lloyd Smale]

it depends on the pressure your going to shoot it at. Its clean burning with full power loads but no slow powder will burn real clean with reduced loads. If your looking for milder loads try hs6

[Buckshot]

..............Get a jug of surplus WC820! I have the Rossi M92 rifle in 45 Colt and it really likes the Lee 340gr (457-340F sized to .454") over 15.3grs of WC820. Backs off the boolit smartly :-)

................Buckshot

[ace1001]

Where do I get WC 820? Ace

[warf73]

http://www.gibrass.com/

Is a great place to buy surplus powder.

Warf

[warf73]

I have a Winchester model 94 here are the loads I've started to use.

Red Dot 6.0grs. for plinkers.
Win 296 25grs Hunting load (going to be)

I'm using CCI mag primers, Star Line Brass, and 250gr Oregon Trail bullet. Both loads have a heavy crimp.


No leading at all in either load both seems to be pretty clean. I've only shot about 50 of each load. After 100 rounds I cleaned up the rifle with no lead deposits and 0 left over un burnt powder that I could see.

I'm using this bullet http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=713464
until this mold comes in from this group buy http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=14268

Warf

[ace1001]

Do I have to shoot a 454 bullet to build enough pressure to burn 820 cleanly? 30000+

[Bass Ackward]

Ace,

If you thought 2400 was too fast, WC820 is generally a little faster than 2400. More like AA#9.

You need to start thinking about ignition enhancers. Things like bullet weight and or diameter. Harder bullets. Magnum primers. Tighter neck tension and crimp. (comes with larger diameter bullets) Better (softer) annealled brass. Less slipery lube. etc. These won't really raise pressure that much unless you go too fast on the burn rate chart, but they will improve cleanliness.

Your problem is that you are running a high volume case with a low pressure threshold by the book. This is mostly a recipie for faster, bulkier powders. If you use all of the above, you can burn RL7 with very pleasing results on a target.

[John Boy]

Lyman 454190 - Bhn 14 - CCI LP - 6gr Red Dot - Crimped with the Lee Carbide FC Die
But ... 40grs of FFFg works better![smilie=1:

[ace1001]

2400 was not too fast it was too dirty, left too much unburned powder. Ace

[ace1001]

What do you think a minimum load would be of WC820 behind a 250g. .45 bullet to achieve enough pressure to burn cleanly? Ace

[Scrounger]

2400 was not too fast it was too dirty, left too much unburned powder. Ace


WC 820 will be even worse in that respect. Use enough 2400 or WC820 and it will burn clean. If you want a slow speed, low recoiling load, use something like Unique or faster, WW 231 or Bullseye, Red Dot, Green Dot, Clays, etc. It really is pretty simple.

[Ohio Rusty]

Speaking of Clays ... there is a gun shop near me that has a pound of Clays powder in clear container like what you get macaroni salad or baked beans in. Probably was from a broken down jug. The clays powder is green in color !! Is it supposed to be that color green? He has other powders in the same kind of containers, Unique, Red Dot, 700-X, etc., and they are all dark gray like. I've not seen green gunpowder before ...........
Ohio Rusty

[AlaskaMike]

I have some Clays and it's more tan than green, but it does sort of have a slight greenish tint to it. It's probably influenced by the ambient light when you view it. Cold (bluish) flourescent vs. warm (reddish) incandescent, etc. The "slight greenish tint" of mine is under the 40w flourescents in my garage.

Mike

[Ed Barrett]

In my Rossi 92 in .454 I find lil'gun best in 45 and 454 cases with bullets from 250 to 400 grains.

[jaystuw]

Has anyone had a chance to try that taurus short stroke pump gun in 45 colt cal.? -its the replica of the old colt lightning. I want one, but would like to know how it does with cast bullets.

jaystuw

[Bad Flynch]

Please allow me to repspond to your original question and address some other things that have come up in replies.

First, is that the .45 Colt was never intended to be a rifle cartridge. the original cases had no extractor grooves, either, so it would not have worked in a rifle well.

I have owned many rifles in .45 Colt and all of them were problematic about dirty chambers and actions unless I used good, stiff loads with moderately fast powders. I have used high pressure loads in a Marlin 1894CBC with good success, but the same rifle was a mediocre performer with CAS loads.

I am a .45 Colt nut; I have many firearms chambered for the cartridge. When I first bought my 1894CBC, I tried modest loads that would be easily controlled in CAS shooting, especially in revolvers. All I really got for my trouble was a dirty bore, dirty chambers, and a dirty action from blow-back. I eventually decided, from the large appearance of fired cases, that the chamber was an absolutely maximum chamber. I thought that rebarreling with a tight chamber would be a nice fix.

I called Marlin and aked if they would sell me an unchambered barrel which I would then chamber with a minimum reamer and solve my problem. They replied that they would, but that the resulting rebarreling job would not feed the fat cartridge in that short action reliably. They stated that all of their chambers were large in order to accomodate the fat cartridge and solve feeding problems. Take a look at several rifles in .45 Colt; they will all have maximum chambers and many will have a pronounced radius at the bottom entrance to the chamber. All of that is to enhance feeding.

I bought an Uberti Winchester 1873 in .45 Colt, figuring that maybe the chamber was smaller--after all, it had a relatively straight-line feeding mechanism using that particular lifter that the '73 has. It did not work.

I had my gunsmith convert my Marlin 1894CBC to .38-40 and it works quite nicely. I sold my '73 and bought another in .38-40, which is an original caliber for that gun (not the orginal caliber, but an original caliber). They are great: they do not produce unburned powder, they do not leak a lof of fouling past the case, and the actions stay clean longer. In additon, they shoot black powder and cast bullets exceedingly well.

I really like Lil'Gun for stout .45 Colt loads, but it likes to be shot near maximum pressures, which are a tad lower than H110 (WW296) pressures to do the same thing. Neither of those are particularly clean burning, but Lil'Gun is some cleaner at maximum. H110, used with a jacketed bullet, a hot primer, and a good/tight crimp produces some excellent loads. However, the pressures are high and your cases will swell to fill the mandatory oversize chamber.

Try one of Hodgdon's Clays series. They shoot as cleanly as any powder I have ever seen. My results with shotgun loads leave the guns looking as if they really haven't been fired. The .45 Colt loads are almost as good.

TiteGroup, another Hodgdon number, is a little dirtier but still is acceptable. It shoots well with small volumes in large cases and is accurate at low pressures. It is accurate at higher pressures, too. It takes only standard primers and leaves hardly any unburned residue. The cases tend to get a little dark staining on them, though.

[JRR]

EVERY 45 Colt rifle chamber is oversized from my observation when using carbide sizing dies. The 45 Colt chamber is TAPERED. A carbide die can only resize straight.

Get a RCBS plain steel sizing die and use sizing lube. This die will give your cases the appropriate taper to match industry standard chambers.

Using Starline brass (once fired and resized properly), 285 Mountain Mould or 280 Applegate gas check bullets and 18 gr. of WC820 I get excellent results. Use a WLP primer, a sturdy crimp and I get clean burning, no sooting, excellent accuracy and approx 1400 fps in a 16 inch Winchester 94..

Other powders in the same class would be 2400 (new), N110 and AA9. These use almost identical powder charges with very close velocities.

The H110/ 296 loads are great but you will need to boost charges and velocities up to about 1600 fps and /or use heavier bullets to get results. Again, the 16 inch barrel. Everything shifts about 100 fps highter using a 20 inch.

[ace1001]

I got the WC820 and have loaded hundreds of rounds. Love it! Using 250 gr bullets, I have a 19gr round for my Ruger Vaqueros and I have been using them in NV with no pressure signs. Very accurate, reasonable recoil. What do you guys think. Under 18.3 I didn't have enough pressure to burn clean. I am loading 25gr in the rossi 92 rifle. Ace

[leftiye]

Ace, I'd go to Blue dot, or AA#9. Blue dot gives nice velocities at reduced pressures (I'd guess less than 20,000 psi.). 250 grain boolit at 1250 fps with 16 grains, 7.5 inch revolter (this USED to be a hot load. Nowadays they load them -45 Colt- to 30,000 psi.). #9 is also very good for low pressure loads with heavy boolits. I use 21 grains with a 300 grain RNFPGC in my 454 casull. Two different sources put this at 19000 psi.

[bowhunter]

4227 whips them all!