carbine 9mm

[Link23]

i just buit a what i call AR-9...its a 9mm AR it has a heavy 16 inch barrel, modified to use uzi mags, its time to get a load, but the problem is i only have fast burning pistol powder, im wanting a slower powder that will burn cleanly through out my barrel and give me around 1500 fps if that is possible.. im okay for buying a new pound of powder for this

i have on hand,
Unique
Red dot
green dot

and i think that is all the pistol powder i have


AR-9mm with green mountian barrel
Lee 124 boolit T/C and 124 LRN

Thanks
Link23

[quilbilly]

Don't know if this applies to your firearm but I have a TC carbine in 9mm Luger. I tried for several years to work up an accurate load for 1500 fps and was unsuccessful. Of course I did get to 1500 but it split cases a lot due to excessive pressure. Now I am back to 4.6 gr of Unique with a 125 gr RNFP and getting consistent 3" groups at 100 with open sights. The MV of my Unique load in the carbine is 1250. Close enough for what I use it for. For the record, one of the powders I used for a while to get that 9mm up to 1500 fps (actually 1550fps) was AA-7.

[SAJTU]

Link

I have a very similar 9mm AR and didn't get mine anywhere near 1500 fps. I've had good luck with Lee 356-120-TC and 5.7 grains of Unique with chrony'd velocity at 1400 fps. Got decent accuracy of around 2"-3" at 50 yards, so great for plinking cans or clay pigeons on the berm. Tried AA-7 with same bullet and got equivalent velocity but accuracy fell off and found some unburned powder in the action. Since the action is blow-back, I wouldn’t get too far out there with your hand loads.

SAJTU

[fcvan]

I shot the same loads through my handguns and marlin carbine. I didn't have a chronograph at the time so I have no idea what they were running. I enjoyed the carbine but didn't like the way it slung brass a bazzilion feet away. after reading some posts here I have ordered the replacement recoil buffer and heavier Wolff recoil springs. I'll post results when I get the chance.

There are lots of posts regarding the use of slower powders to gain velocity in the carbine. I am more interested in accuracy and function that serves both pistol and carbine. I will be trying the Lee 120 TC and the Lee 105 SWC as well as my old standby, the Lee 125 RN. It should be a lot of fun, especially if I don't have to chase the brass so darned far. Frank

[garym1a2]

I would try WSF, nice and slow and decent in most 9mms also.

[crappiejig]

My good friend uses 6 gr. of bluedot behind a Lee 124 gr. cast boolit in his HP 995 carbine.Don't know if this helps.

[Link23]

well i chamberd the barrel it has a 1in 10 twist RH if that helps

im bluing the barrel right now
Link23

[JoeTheMechanic]

my "complete reloading manual for the 9mm luger" (basically a bunch of load data from bullet and powder companies) shows rifle data for the lyman #356242 120 grain RN from a 16.5" barrel. OAL is 1.065". your OAL may be different and your bullet is at least 4 grains heavier so you may want to start 10% below these charges and work up, it never hurts to be safe

for red dot they show 3.0 grains starting load at 1070fps and a max load of 3.9 grains at 1263 fps

for unique they show 4.0 grains starting load at 1214fps and a max of 5.0 grains at 1402fps. unique also has the highest starting and max velocity for this bullet, with this data.


rifle data for the lyman 130 grain TC with an oal of 1.016
AA#7 shows a starting load of 6.8 grains with 1214fps and a max of 7.7 grains at 1341fps. it had the highest start and max load velocities listed for this bullet.

hope this helps

[MikeD7]

Realistically you will not be able to consistently achieve 1500 fps reliably. I tried 231 in my 9mm loads and I really liked it. The powder was clean but it just smoked a lot with the lube I was using. I loaded a 125 gn RN with 4.0 gn of 231

[medicstimpy]

Personally, I do not use any of those powders, but if you want an interesting little bullet, try the Lee 105gr SWC sized down to .357 for 9mm. No leading at all with Red Carnuba lube.

My AR just loves those things loaded up with Titegroup. And nice clean round holes to boot! :twisted:

[Larry Gibson]

The recoil impulse for the bolt if blow back or the gas system will limit the effective velocity with any given weight of bullet unless you want to batter the action and/or break something in any semi auto 9mm.

I have safely pushed 125 gr bullets to 1500 fps out of my Spanish Destroyer (.38 Super not 9mm BB) but it is a bolt action.

Larry Gibson

[.5mv^2]

I like the 105swc Lee too.
I size them all .358 and let the barrel finish sizing them. Had to lengthen the flaring tool to keep them from getting crushed in the brass.

I shoot them with Winchester Super Field and get 1000 fps from a keltec with a very short barrel and 1150-1200 in a glock 19 with an inch more barrel. I have a blow back carbine but havent chrony'ed in that gun. I usually don't push the bullet that hard in 9mm but have shot the same bullet in 357. It will shoot over 2000 fps with a case full of 5744.

My experience with blow back action is that it costs about 50 fps over a locked semiauto. I once tried a 158 grain RN in a HP 9 carbine. The brass did weird things, but I survived.
http://www.veloliner.com/loading/9mmoops.jpg.

[fecmech]

I'm curious here. If a safe in a pistol (I'm talking max pressure) 9mm load is fired in a blowback carbine it's a problem?? I have a couple safe published loads using Longshot and Blue dot that both exceeded 1200 fps in a couple of Hipowers with the Lee 120 TC. They were also very accurate. I am sure in a carbine length barrel they would exceed 1500 fps easily. From the examples I'm seeing in previous posts everyone is using faster powders like Unique and 231, maybe that's where the problems lie.

[Rocky Raab]

Most if not all blowback actions are designed to work at moderate pressures and use straight-walled cases like the .32 ACP, .380 or 9 Mak. The 9mm Luger is a tapered case at high pressure. That means it will have less gripping power to hold it in the chamber. That gripping power is the ONLY thing keeping a blowback action closed. Think about that.

Blowback actions should not begin to cycle until the bullet has left the muzzle and the pressure has dropped enough for the case to lose its grip. If the case loses its grip too soon and begins to back out of the chamber, the high remaining pressure can swell the brass or burst it. Note the photo above. That case was so close to bursting it is scary - REALLY scary.

Finally, as I keep saying, that "powder burning down the barrel" thing is a complete myth. I've discussed it in at LEAST six recent threads and have no intention of doing so in this one.

[fecmech]

Most if not all blowback actions are designed to work at moderate pressures and use straight-walled cases like the .32 ACP, .380 or 9 Mak. The 9mm Luger is a tapered case at high pressure. That means it will have less gripping power to hold it in the chamber. That gripping power is the ONLY thing keeping a blowback action closed. Think about that.

If you sell a firearm that is a 9mm caliber and a blowback action do you not have to proof it with SAMMI proof loads??? It does not make sense to me that a manufacturer would put out a product that will put him out of business. Standard 9mm loads by the factories are all in the 30K PSI range. Also in blowback actions you generally have a heavy inertia breach block to delay action opening, it's not just case grip.

Note the photo above. That case was so close to bursting it is scary - REALLY scary.
I'm wondering if that was the one he loaded the 158 gr RN in, hardly a std 9mm load.

[.5mv^2]

Hi
I didn't mean to equate that blow back was necessarily bad or that it was an accident waiting to happen like I showed in the picture.

The 158 was more or less an experiment gone bad. It doesn't work too well in the Luger unless the powder charge is kept to a minimum and there is not much energy in the bullet. I built the charge up in a hi Point carbine until it did this. I figured the case some how started ejecting pushing the slide open before the pressure started building up. It was the only round in the mag and the bolt was closed. The casing did eject.

My normal bullet in the 9mm is either a 95 or a 105 any more. Great velocity and low recoil.

[Rocky Raab]

You are correct about the bolt opening too soon, but it happened as the pressure started DROPPING, not building. In all normal 9mm loads the pressure peaks before the bullet leaves the case mouth. Yours was not a standard loading, of course, but peak pressure must have occurred before that bolt began to open.