Physical Strength and Shooting Accurately

[wtfooptimax200]

This weekend, while shooting my SRH, I got thinking about the correlation between physical strength and shooting accuracy. Of course, being strong isn't a necessity for shooting well, but do you think that strength is enough of an advantage that regularly performing shooting specific strength training exercises would be beneficial for handgun (and for that matter, rifle) shooting?

As for specific exercises, I was thinking those that target grip strength (for recoil control) as well as shoulder muscles (to aid in holding a handgun steady) seem like they would be most helpful.

Additionally, do you think that holding a weighted rifle for extended periods of time (with proper form, of course) would help offhand accuracy?

The caveat to all of this is that even with exceptional physical strength, if a shooter uses improper form and trigger control, accuracy will suffer.

I look forward to everyone's thoughts on this.

Branden

[DeanWinchester]

Obviously you need the strength to hold the gun up, but I don't think it has too much to do with it otherwise. I knew a lady years ago who could hit a 3 inch target at 100 yards with a 44 mag Super black hawk. As far as arm strength I could break her in half, but I could never shoot that well.


I suppose fatigue would be an issue eventually.

[DeanWinchester]

Additionally, do you think that holding a weighted rifle for extended periods of time (with proper form, of course) would help offhand accuracy?



That's isometrics and yes I DO think it would help a lot.

[mooman76]

I agree with DeanWinchester. In the Marines we used to spend hours for several days snapping in. Basically practicing holding the gun in position. I believe it helped quite abit.

[subsonic]

Yes! !

[stubshaft]

Yup, When I started out shooting handguns I used to hang a pair of binoculars from right behind the front sight to build up my shoulder muscles. I used to also balance a penny on the front sight while dry firing to practice trigger control. You need to develop specific muscles to shoot handguns or rifles for that matter. When I shot 4 position smallbore there were a whole different set of muscles and exercises to learn.

[Whitworth]

In the Marines we used to spend hours for several days snapping in. Basically practicing holding the gun in position. I believe it helped quite abit.

Yes indeed! Helps out a lot IMO.

[bobthenailer]

I never did any strengh traning for shooting in the past, but now that im retired i found that i have to do some to somewhat steady my shakes that i picked up somewhere , over the past few years my avg dropped to 287/289 for the season i used to have a 294.6 avg for many years . since doing exercises ive been able to get to 291.9 avg so far this year . so for me it did help! but i dont think i will be able to hold as good as i used to, i guess it comes with age.
Dont forget the mental aspect of shooting ! you have to exercise it as well

[fecmech]

I never did any strengh traning for shooting in the past, but now that im retired i found that i have to do some to somewhat steady my shakes that i picked up somewhere , over the past few years my avg dropped to 287/289 for the season i used to have a 294.6 avg for many years . since doing exercises ive been able to get to 291.9 avg so far this year . so for me it did help! but i dont think i will be able to hold as good as i used to, i guess it comes with age.
Dont forget the mental aspect of shooting ! you have to exercise it as well
I feel you pain Bob. I just turned 69 and I've begun to shake more and can't hold my handguns as steady as I once did. Shooting Hunters Pistol silhouette I average 27 with an occasional 30 every now and then. As Clint said "I guess a man's got to know his limitations"
That said I'm sure if I did some strength and other exercises it would improve things but at this stage I think I'll just enjoy the ride.

[Piedmont]

According to those ads on the TV you lose around %10 testosterone every decade after 40. I think you need testosterone replacement therapy. I think I need it too!!!!

[Jammer Six]

Yes if you shoot a Glock, no if you shoot a milspec 1911.

[beagle]

From talking with competition pistol shooters, it makes a great deal of difference and I could see where it would in position rifle shooting as well.

I worked for several years with a old bullseye shooter and in his spare time at work, he picked up a brick on a throng and held it at arm's length. At other times, he would be squeezing a handball ball to build up his grip.

When I started playing that game, a competition shooter had me hold a .45 at arm's length for about 5 minutes and show him where my arm hurt. This clued me into areas that needed work.

Did I follow his advice? I'm not a National Pistol Champion so you know I didn't. I do feel that fitness plays a big part but the way us caster's play around with our shooting, I'm not sure that fitness plays a big part./beagle

[white eagle]

I would say why not
if your strength increased what would it hurt
if it doesn't help your shooting it may just help in other ways
so its a win for your team

[Mk42gunner]

Strength can't hurt, but the ability to hold still is more important.

The absolute best grip strengthening exercise is hand milking a cow.

Robert

[bob208]

yes it will help. back when i was shooting alot i also worked out with weights and a stairmaster. it built up my wind so i could hold better and longer.
now that i am retired i am mstarting on the stairmaster and want to get my weights out also. was told it will help with the diabetes too.

[Alan in Vermont]

The absolute best grip strengthening exercise is hand milking a cow.
Robert

I know what you're talking about, I wonder how many others do? :)

Certified old farm kid from Vermont.

[Jammer Six]

Not me. One gets milk up at the QFC.

[Blammer]

10 pushups a night help me. :)

[Chamfered]

As a youngster I read a book by one of the top bullseye shooters in the 60s - 70s, name escapes me right now, but he claimed to hold the pistol hard enough to leave the checkering imprinted on his hand, for the whole match. This would imply the need for high grip strength at least for pistol competition. I think it would have to help, and couldn't see where it would hurt.

[leftiye]

It's all about getting my alzheimer's and my parkinson's in synch. Probly better to get a set of grips that only fit yer hand one way. After that consistency would be way more important than force. Hold too hard and you'll shake. The mental (zen) thing has to be right too.

[Jammer Six]

leftiye, is it possible to adjust loads for that? (Just wondering...)

[41mag]

Personally I think conditioning is more important than physical strength. Similar to shooting a bow accurately you have to condition certain muscles or it's a wash.

I have been a mechanic for most of my adult life as well as working as a pipe fitter and welder, so I have kept in fairly decent shape. This said even though I can squeeze the bajeebers out of the little grip-o-meters they use to determine grip strength, I rarely squeeze my grips when shooting. I simply hold on to them as I would in a hand shake.

I have witnessed first hand folks who squeeze tight shoot bad groups and when relaxing shot 2X better. Not to say this works for everyone as it is an individual thing, but overall it seems to apply.

Same thing can be said for shooting a rifle. I find when I am relaxed the shot is WAY more consistent than if i am tightened up holding hard. Similar to shotgunning I guess. There again I feel it is conditioning which makes more difference as my daughter while pretty stout for her size, can easily out shoot most men with just about anything you throw at her. This said she learned to relax and not hold the rifles or handguns overly tight so that they are allowed to do their thing time and time again the same way. With her, it was either listen to me and learn to hit what your shooting at or stay home. The latter simply wasn't an option. Similarly growing up for me and my pop, same rules applied. While he was never into match shooting, the one thing folks took away from being out with him was to never tell, or bet him, he couldn't hit something no matter what the heck he was shooting. Trust me when I say, I learned my lessons early.

[leftiye]

leftiye, is it possible to adjust loads for that? (Just wondering...)

Yah, if you slow 'em down enough you'll stop flinching.

[Shoot66]

As far as I can say, strenght is not a key element for accuracy shooting. Undoubtly, it plays a role in competition where extended series are shot.

[subsonic]

I think conditioning might be the better term. Strength in the right places at the right time. In most shooting you should strive for a position that uses bones instead of muscles. But mostly because it minimizes problems from muscles that fatigue or tremor.

I know a guy that can snap off a 1/2" breaker bar if he pushes too hard. And he can't hit the broadside of a barn most days (long time flincher!). So it's not just brute strength by any means.

[Brl]

Any physical conditioning will improve upon most activities. Strength training is a big part of physical conditioning. Most people have a misconception of "strength" training. We are not trying to be professional bodybuilders or Olympic powerlifters. Strength training is any weight bearing exercise and, if done correctly, is both healthy and helpful for any activity. It's what keeps up young...or at least slows the aging.

Thanks!!

[Ragnarok]

I bought a big Dragoon Colt clone revolver a few months back....not for sure what it weighs..4 pounds plus though.

It definately requires some amount of strength just to hold it out at arms length and keep it on target. The reality of it is that it's a two handed gun.

[PanaDP]

I think strength is helpful. The closer you can be to fully relaxed while shooting the better you will shoot and the only way to do that is to have strength over and above that needed for shooting. Strong muscles using 10% effort will, in my opinion and experience, be steadier than weak muscles using 50% effort to do the same task. The strong person will also tire more slowly doing the same tasks which come into play shooting matches or shooting well on a hunt after a full day hiking. Being in better cardiopulmonary shape will also aid you in keeping your breathing under best control.

[olafhardt]

Since I have achieved that glorius status of old fart, I have found that a lighter, less powerful gun and a bigger closer target help.

[44man]

Been watching this with no comments.
You need strength and as calibers get larger with more recoil, you need to control barrel rise and torque. Even the .44 needs control without "roll" in the hand. Just get a good firm grip without shaking.

[fecmech]

Since I have achieved that glorius status of old fart, I have found that a lighter, less powerful gun and a bigger closer target help.

Amen to that![smilie=l:

[ubetcha]

Another way of looking at it is," a strong foundation supports the whole house"

[Longwood]

lived in an area where I could shoot IHMSA silhouette pistol every weekend, so I did.
One range I shot at had a 10 year old kid there that won every meet he competed at.
Small skinny kid that looked like he weighed maybe 70 pounds.
They did one of the "That's Incredible" TV shows there about him.
When he competed, the match was usually won by a turkey egg shoot off that involved 6" disks at 220 yards.
I saw him throw a meet because he wanted to go back to the dirt pile he and the other boys were playing on and did not want to be bothered with the shoot-off.
The last two rams, he shot at the hole in the head under the horn and hit it on the second shot. When he left the line, he and his spotter were grinning so we knew he did it on purpose.
Did I mention that IHMSA meets are shot with open sights.
I suspect that not giving a hoot if he won the match or not helped him to relax more.
It is about lots and lots of practice, completely relaxing the same each shot and most importantly, the eyes people, not the huevo's or strength.
His dad brought their practice ammo to the range in five gallonbuckets.

[Edit]

Don't relax completely, you could fall down and hurt yourself.:holysheep

[c3d4b2]

+1 I have heard this from several very good shooters.


It is about lots and lots of practice, completely relaxing the same each shot and most importantly, the eyes people, not the huevo's or strength.
His dad brought their practice ammo to the range in five gallonbuckets.

I was also told that conditioning was important and you should do your conditioning by practising shooting......

[starmac]

Strength can't hurt, but the ability to hold still is more important.

The absolute best grip strengthening exercise is hand milking a cow.

Robert

LMAO I take it you never milked goats. I have seen a couple that made you think someone else must have milked the cows for you. lol

[ColColt]

Since I have achieved that glorius status of old fart, I have found that a lighter, less powerful gun and a bigger closer target help.

I'm 66 now and getting SS checks. I still shoot the 45 ACP more than any other but enjoy my M29-3 just as much. Within reason, I think strength may play a minor roll in shooting accurate(speaking for myself only). I don't have the strength I had at 35 or 40...50 for that matter and I've quit climbing ladders, doing my own brake job(can't get back up good) and trying to cut grass with a 19" push mower. I hire that out now. I doubt I get old enough to stop shooting. I may not be able to see woodpecker lips at 75 yards like I once could but I can still get respectable groups at 10-15 yards. I'm not a long distance pistol shooter...never was, even at 25. Beyond 25 yards for sure I go for a rifle.

I still get groups that make me smile, however.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Misc%20Stuff/_DEF4258a.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Targets/_DEF3897.jpg

[olafhardt]

Colcolt, glad you enjoy your booming boat anchors. I am currently working on a32 S&W short project. I can keep them all in the center of the back yard. Standing on the bank I can hit the water every time! Your pecker must be longer than mine. However with my cat fart loads I can repeatedly shoot one shot half inch groups with my 500S&W Handyrifle at lots of ranges!

[Multigunner]

I have an advantage when it comes to holding anything steady, due to my hands having been badly burned twice, once as a child and once as an adult, my hands feel like I'm wearing thick tight gloves and when I've held my hand out to show how steady they are one guy even thought I had an artificial arm and was pulling his leg. He even said that it couldn't be a real hand and wanted to look up my sleeve.
Though my hands no longer show obvious scarring, and look normal most of the time, they occasionally swell and the skin then looks like shiny plastic. The tendons show up like cables and theres almost no padding on the palms or in the V at juncture of thumb and fore finger.
The last makes it difficult to use a pistol that has a grip safety, which is why I no longer carry a 1911.

A tip should anyone have scar tissue they wish to remove. Balistol solvent is non toxic, in fact its recommended for cleaning restuarant meat cutting machines. The solvent also soaks into a over time softens and can dissolve thick scar tissue. After taking notice of the effect after getting balistol on my hands while cleaning a rifle, I used balistol and 0000 steel wool to gently buff the rigdges of scar tissue. I only used it when I already had gotten the solvent on my hands, and cleaned the skin throughly after each session.

PS
While this condition is a distinct advantage when shooting, second and third degree burns are no joke. A good shooting glove would be better since you can take it off when not needed.

[bbqncigars]

FWIW, Lee Jurras did wrist and grip exercises when he was regularly shooting his hand cannons.

[Alan]

IIRC, the only civilian every to clean Camp Perry was Jim Clark. He was short, and his arms were the size of my thighs. I met him a few times, as his shop in Keithville La was about 25 miles from my parent's house.

I carried an old pre-war M&P Target model by there to get it checked out, as it was shooting rediculously high, even w/ a home-made tall front sight. I had some handloads with me, and he lifted the gun, and fired 3 shots offhand and one-hand at 25 yards that were a clover-leaf.

If you do a lot of shooting, you will probably develop the strength you need. Evidently, a little extra doesn't hurt. 8)

(The problem with the gun - a South American re-import - was that the frame below the barrel was stretched a bit, whether from impact or leverage I guess we'll never know. The mating of the crane to the frame could be seen to be a _tiny_ bit wider at the front than the back. This left the barrel pointing a bit up.