1874 Deluxe Target Rifle

[Swampman]

I picked one up in a pawn shop today. It's marked Pedersoli and Traditions on the bottom of the barrel. It seems nice.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/Woodsman1956/Black%20Powder/100_1014.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/Woodsman1956/Black%20Powder/100_1013.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/Woodsman1956/Black%20Powder/100_1012.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/Woodsman1956/Black%20Powder/100_1011.jpg

[shovel80]

Nice!..45-70?...How's it shoot??

Terry

[Swampman]

I just got it yesterday so I haven't shot it yet. My Pedersoli Sharps Carbine shoots great.

['74 sharps]

Got one just like it. Put a Malcolm long scope on it, and does well, but my barrel has a lot of wear. Italian production dates are letters in a square box. Mine was 2002.

[montana_charlie]

1874 Deluxe Target Rifle
If it had the standard ladder sight on the barrel, it would be a '1874 Billy Dixon'.



Italian production dates are letters in a square box. Mine was 2002.
I didn't know that ... !?!
What is the 'key' for decoding the letters?

CM

[WARD O]

Like your old 45-70 ammo box!

['74 sharps]

If it had the standard ladder sight on the barrel, it would be a '1874 Billy Dixon'.



I didn't know that ... !?!
What is the 'key' for decoding the letters?

CM
Google Italian firearm manufacture dates, or something like that. Very easy to find....

[Swampman]

I wish it had a standard ladder sight on the barrel.

[montana_charlie]

I wish it had a standard ladder sight on the barrel.
They pop up from time to time. If I see one with a reasonable price I'll try to let you know.


Google Italian firearm manufacture dates, or something like that. Very easy to find....
Just to see if I found the right data, do you have a date code of BS on your Pedersoli, indicating a proof date of 2002?

CM

['74 sharps]

That's it. Good place for parts VTI Gunworks. Very responsive. Parts I've replaced are rather common replacements for any Sharps include firing pin, lever spring. I never take them out without having them along. One outing, chambered my first round of the day, set and pulled trigger, and snap. Nothing. Again and got same. Dropped breechblock, and in 5 minutes, was back up. Hint about breechblock removal. Take forearm off, remove lever spring, and pin will come out and reassemble very easily. Replace spring after pin is replaced....

[montana_charlie]

Hint about breechblock removal. Take forearm off, remove lever spring, and pin will come out and reassemble very easily. Replace spring after pin is replaced....
Here's a different hint, with the same object in mind.

Remove the forearm and see how much you need to loosen the lever spring screw to remove all tension when the lever is fully down. LocTite the screw at that position after making sure there is sufficient tension to hold the lever up in firm contact with the tang when the breech is closed.

With this adjustment, the lever is more comfortable to operate.
And, you get a 'no tension situation' when you want to pull the takedown pin, without the need to remove the forearm.

CM

[Swampman]

It looks like mine was made in 2001. I also have a Pedersoli Carbine that I really like.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/Woodsman1956/Black%20Powder/100_3810.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/Woodsman1956/Black%20Powder/100_3814.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/Woodsman1956/Black%20Powder/100_3815.jpg

[Bad Ass Wallace]

My Pedersoli collection includes (top to bottom) 45/90, 45/70, 50/70, 50/90 and 40/65

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/Picture001-2.jpg

two years ago, I purchased a 38/55 "Target" Highwall

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/Picture007-3.jpg

[Swampman]

Do you find that they shoot well?

[Swampman]

Is the rear sight calibrated for blackpowder velocities?

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Do you find that they shoot well?

Nah! shoots all over the place; I'd expect one hole from my 45/90 at 100yards

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/ericsrifletarget1.jpg

545gn Paul Jones PGT mould.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/PGTmold-1.jpg

[Swampman]

Will they shoot 405s ok?

[wyoduster]

I've got the addiction bad just bought another one too...:veryconfu

[Swampman]

Sweet!

[montana_charlie]

Is the rear sight calibrated for blackpowder velocities?
I presume you ask in regard to the tang sights pictured above ...

The rear sight is (typically) calibrated to move the sight one hundreth of an inch for each vertical mark on the vernier scale.

If you have a 32-inch barrel on your Pedersoli, that gives you a 36-inch sight radius. With that spacing, moving the rear sight one hundreth of an inch (called "one point') will move the bullet impact 1 inch at a hundred yards.

If you have a 30-inch barrel, the sight raduis is two inches shorter, and will cause a larger change in bullet impact. With the 34-inch radius, the movement (at one hundred yards with a 'one point' change in the rear sight) will be one MOA ... instead of 1 inch.

Those two results are part of the reason that those two barrel lengths are so popular.

CM

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Will they shoot 405s ok?

I don't have a 405 gn mould but I do have a 420gn Henley & Gibbs that is copied by Lyman, except the H&G has one extra grease groove. It is very accurate in both the Sharps and my Springfield trapdoor.

Another boolit worth considering is the Lyman "Mathews" design tapered boolit. This design sits in the throat and allows a full 75gns of FFG to be loaded.

[shovel80]

One Minute of angle= 1 inch at 100 yards at any barrel length...I believe..;-)

Terry....

[montana_charlie]

One Minute of angle= 1 inch at 100 yards at any barrel length...I believe..;-)
Your belief is wrong (technically), but I know why you have it.

1 MOA equals 1 MOA at any range, from any barrel, and 1 inch equals 1 inch all of the time.
But, at one hundred yards 1 MOA equals 1.047 inches. As the range (or angle change) increases, the difference between MOA and Inches gets more pronounced.

As for barrel length, changing the (say) elevation on a rear sight by a certain amount will cause a given change in upward angle of the bore.
If the barrel is shorter, the angle change will be greater.

For example, using a distant object for an aiming point, raise the sight on your 24-inch barreled rifle a tenth of an inch
Notice how much change in angle occurs in the barrel ... not very much.
Now raise the rear sight a tenth on your six-inch barreled revolver.
The change in angle is much more noticeable.

The one tenth change on your rifle may have shifted impact up by 10 inches at one hundred. But the same one tenth on the revolver would give an angle increase equal to forty inches at one hundred (which would be 38.20 MOA).

Any angle change will result in movement of the bullet's impact point, which can be expressed in 'inches at (so many) yards' or in 'Minutes Of Arc'. But they are not the same 'numbers'.

CM

[shovel80]

Your absolutely correct Charlie...1 min of angle does = 1.047...but, Most of us just consider 1 min. of angle to = 1 inch at 100 yards and it works out pretty darn good...;-)

Terry:drinks:

['74 sharps]

Sharps '74's are like a great potato chip...one is never enough. Just received my second, a Long Range, replaced the rear sight with a Lee Shaver (outstanding quality - obviously designed by a shooter); however, will not be out with it for a few days. My other has the Leatherwood Malcolm long scope. Great optics, but I replaced the screws with socket cap heads and they will not loosen under recoil and are easy to adjust.

[Longwood]

Your belief is wrong (technically), but I know why you have it.

1 MOA equals 1 MOA at any range, from any barrel, and 1 inch equals 1 inch all of the time.
But, at one hundred yards 1 MOA equals 1.047 inches. As the range (or angle change) increases, the difference between MOA and Inches gets more pronounced.

As for barrel length, changing the (say) elevation on a rear sight by a certain amount will cause a given change in upward angle of the bore.
If the barrel is shorter, the angle change will be greater.

For example, using a distant object for an aiming point, raise the sight on your 24-inch barreled rifle a tenth of an inch
Notice how much change in angle occurs in the barrel ... not very much.
Now raise the rear sight a tenth on your six-inch barreled revolver.
The change in angle is much more noticeable.

The one tenth change on your rifle may have shifted impact up by 10 inches at one hundred. But the same one tenth on the revolver would give an angle increase equal to forty inches at one hundred (which would be 38.20 MOA).

Any angle change will result in movement of the bullet's impact point, which can be expressed in 'inches at (so many) yards' or in 'Minutes Of Arc'. But they are not the same 'numbers'.

CM

Now,,, I am really confused.
I always thought the angle was the center line of the bore from the breach of the rifle to the 100 yard target. And one MOA was one inch regardless of barrel length sight movement etc.

Where did the 1.047 come from?
Sounds like MOA means something entirely different than what I always though it did.
Is it High Tech Target Shooter Mumbo Jumbo or should I just go on with thinking one MOA is one inch at 100 yards?

[PanaDP]

Now,,, I am really confused.
I always thought the angle was the center line of the bore from the breach of the rifle to the 100 yard target. And one MOA was one inch regardless of barrel length sight movement etc.

Where did the 1.047 come from?
Sounds like MOA means something entirely different than what I always though it did.
Is it High Tech Target Shooter Mumbo Jumbo or should I just go on with thinking one MOA is one inch at 100 yards?

It's really just coincidence that 1MOA at 100 yards is very, very close to 1".

One minute of angle is an angular measure equal to 1/60 of 1 degree. Being angular, it's useful at all distances without conversion or additional information whereas a measure like 1" is only useful if you know the distance as well (a 7" group is good at 1000yds, not so good at 100yds).


Here's the math:

Imagine the shooter is at the center of a circle and the target is tangent to that circle out at 100yds. The circle with a radius of 100yds has a circumference of 628.39yds (2pi*100yds). Converting this into inches we get 22,622.04 inches.

Divide by 360 to get a number of inches subtended by one degree at 100yds: 62.839"

Divide that by 60 to get the number of inches subtended by one minute of one angle at 100 yards: 1.047"

[Longwood]

It's really just coincidence that 1MOA at 100 yards is very, very close to 1".

One minute of angle is an angular measure equal to 1/60 of 1 degree. Being angular, it's useful at all distances without conversion or additional information whereas a measure like 1" is only useful if you know the distance as well (a 7" group is good at 1000yds, not so good at 100yds).


Here's the math:

Imagine the shooter is at the center of a circle and the target is tangent to that circle out at 100yds. The circle with a radius of 100yds has a circumference of 628.39yds (2pi*100yds). Converting this into inches we get 22,622.04 inches.

Divide by 360 to get a number of inches subtended by one degree at 100yds: 62.839"

Divide that by 60 to get the number of inches subtended by one minute of one angle at 100 yards: 1.047"

AhHa!
Math!
That would explain why I did not understand it.
Thanks for the new knowledge.

[shovel80]

One inch per hundred yards works fine for most of us, but, if your gonna shoot a rocket too the moon...well, that's another story!..
;-)
Terry

[montana_charlie]

One inch per hundred yards works fine for most of us,
It works fine for most of us (me included) because we really don't care give a rip about minutes of angle. Most of us look a the group on a target and say, "Oh! I need to move three inches left and two inches up." Then we figure out how much to change the sight based on how far away the target is.

But, for those who do use minutes of angle for making sight changes, the sight radius on a 30-inch barreled Sharps rifle will get movements in that type of increment if using a tang sight calibrated in one hundreths of an inch.

THAT was the 'message' which started this whole donnybrook.

I'll pass on one other little tidbit, just to make you hate me more...
When you change the sight to raise impact an inch at a hundred, we (now) know that is also 'almost' 1 MOA.

We also know that the same adjustment will cause ten times as much impact change at 1000 yards.

So, we would call that "ten inches at 1000".

But the guy who uses MOA for his calculations would look at his 1000 yard result of 10.47 inches in impact movement, and STILL call it a change of 1 MOA.

CM

[shovel80]

Nobody Hates you Charlie!!!..and I Enjoy Reading All your posts !!

Thanks, Terry

[bigted]

SPEAK FOR YOUR SELF SHOVEL.......LOL hey charlie!