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dunno.458
03-11-2012, 08:27 AM
Just back today from a sucessful Fallow deer hunt. Nice even 20 point Buck hanging in the garage right now.

Due to work/family/time pressure I caved in, and used the 7mm-08 with J boolits. Simply because it was the one rifle in the safe that I knew for certain was zeroed to that load and ready to go. So the 45/70 and .50 Hawken ML stayed home.

Result was that while I was dressing out my less than perfectly hit buck and trimming off all the bloodshot mess, I was thinking back to the Doe I shot last season. Comparing the damage to a hit with Lymans 457122 "Gould" bullet at 1200fps has me thinking.

What Velocity is the tipping point between effective terminal performance, versus "Excessive" meat damage?

And then I look at all the "magnum" brass lying about our hunting shack......

L Ross
03-11-2012, 09:40 AM
2,500 fps impact velocity. Let the fightin' commence.

Duke

lbaize3
03-11-2012, 09:56 AM
2,501 fps :kidding:

Screwbolts
03-11-2012, 10:11 AM
IMHO, you need to get the book by Veral Smith of LBT molds "Jacketed performance from Cast" and read it, that will then help you understand Displacement Velocity. There is no magic number for all projectiles period. it is based on meplat/velocity formula. because the projectile you chose developed a very big meplat by transferring energy from tissue to transform a pointy boolit into a big meplat, massive amounts of hydraulic blood shot meet and poor bleed out occured.

It is a great book.

upr45
03-11-2012, 10:29 AM
There is no magic # because there are far too many variables. You can minimize the damage by using a properly constructed bullet for the task, and by choosing a specific point of aim. Veral's book as previously stated is a great reference, as are several of the threads on this forum. There are generalities and there are exceptions to the generalities because no 2 animals have the same tenacity to want to live.

Wolfer
03-11-2012, 10:35 AM
I don't know for sure. With my 45 colt @ 1000 fps I get good terminal performance but can eat right up to the hole, my 30-30 @ 2000 fps you can eat close to the hole, moving up to the 30-06 with 165 Sierra @ 2550 fps the damage still wasn't too bad. My other guns running in the 2700/3000 are considerably worse. Bullet integrity may have more to do with it. My 338 win mag @ 2900 has a lot less bloodshot than my 7x57 @ 2700

L Ross
03-11-2012, 11:03 AM
My experience comes from shooting, field dressing, and/or personally butchering about 200 head of N.American "big game" from antelope to bison. I'll stand by my post, "excessive meat damage" occurs with impact velocities of 2,500 fps. Wolfer is offering real world observations.

Duke

357maximum
03-11-2012, 11:07 AM
Not exactly sure how to define the "where" in the tipping point, but I know the 270win shooting factory j-words is on the bad side of it.:cry:

Take that empty 270 case and meck it up into 35Whelen brass. Top it with a waterdropped 225 grain 50ww/50pure boolit similar to the RCBS200 at 2650fps and the issue goes away for the most part. I put one of these high into the leading edge of the front shoulder of a whitetail with a slightly angling down angle. The boolit exited just in front of the opposite rear quarter in the flank meat then went back into the hind quarter and stopped. The meatloss was far less than I expected when I lit the primer. That boolit went through 3 feet of deer and I was very tickled by the way it worked.


I shot another one with an aircooled 50/50 358156HP in a 4inch barrelled DanWesson 357mag @ 60-70 yards. Took her right through both shoulders. The shoulder I went into was a mess and the off shoulder was a royal mess that would have made Freddy Krueger proud.


Shot a bunch of whitetails with my 357Max and 180 grain 50/50 wd'ed RNFP boolits in different designs at 2150-2200 fps. Never once have I had a mess on my hands with that combo. Shots have been from 40yards to 240yards and they all performed flawlessly.

It is not just speed. It is speed/alloy/boolit design/impact distance co-mingling together to form the final equation.

L Ross
03-11-2012, 11:08 AM
dunno458, in rereading your post were you saying you had wasteful damage from the Gould bullet comparable to the jacketed 7mm/08 or not? I took it the opposite of Screwbolts impression.

Duke

bowfin
03-11-2012, 12:08 PM
After cutting up a couple hundred deer, I would say WHERE the bullet/boolit hits has more relevancy to bloodshot meat than how fast the bullet/boolit is going.

Put a projectile through the ribs just behind the front shoulder and one has no problems with anything from .22 Hornet to .338, from my experience.

Frank
03-11-2012, 12:27 PM
Screwbolts:

IMHO, you need to get the book by Veral Smith of LBT molds "Jacketed performance from Cast" and read it, that will then help you understand Displacement Velocity. There is no magic number for all projectiles period. it is based on meplat/velocity formula. because the projectile you chose developed a very big meplat by transferring energy from tissue to transform a pointy boolit into a big meplat, massive amounts of hydraulic blood shot meet and poor bleed out occured.

It is a great book.
Right. The type of nose is important. Also alloy. Every type of nose, alloy, velocity is taken into consideration in the book. It is a detailed explanation Veral gives that won't be solved in one thread here. The book makes the topic much more interesting and is definitely worth getting.

RU shooter
03-11-2012, 12:30 PM
After cutting up a couple hundred deer, I would say WHERE the bullet/boolit hits has more relevancy to bloodshot meat than how fast the bullet/boolit is going.

Put a projectile through the ribs just behind the front shoulder and one has no problems with anything from .22 Hornet to .338, from my experience. Big +1 Ive worked at a deer processor for the last 5 yrs and averaged seeing skinning and cutting on an average of 200 deer each yr. its where you shoot them. Through the ribs dont matter no real meat there anyways . I do know there are alot of guys that cant shoot very well But In my experience you can tell the difference in damage to a shoulder/neck or hind if it was hit with a 30/30 compared to a faster ctg. there is a difference for sure.

303Guy
03-11-2012, 03:30 PM
It also depends on whether or not the blood pump gets taken out. And the mood the animal is in. And the kind of animal. It used to be said that the 303 Brit was a good game cartridge because of its heavier and slower bullet. Muzzle velocity of 2440fps nominal. My limited experience did confirm that until I went and shot a red deer spiker at the end of the rut (full of hormones) and the bruising was quite sever. That bullet had a striking velocity around 1900fps. It traversed through a shoulder and the neck and exited. There was no bleeding out the holes but massive bleeding into the meat.

MBTcustom
03-11-2012, 05:25 PM
I know for a fact that if you shoot a 100Lb Arkansas deer @ 30 yards with a 300winmag pushing a 165 sierra gameking @ 3200fps, that it will be a little bloodshot, heh heh. More like purple milkshake on the hoof! Pretty much everything in a 15" circle was bloody hamburger. So I lost the tops of both front legs, some neck meat, and some tenderloin meat......you get the idea.
Now later, I shot a deer of about the same weight, 15yards away with a Lee 45-230-TL boolit in my muzzle loader (I guess it was going about 1200fps). Shot it right in the neck and it was DRT with minimal bruising.
I think there are a lot of factors to this equation, but as a general rule, I think that a 35-45 cal cast FN boolit going less than 1900fps will give an unmolested kill, but thats assuming that the boolit doesn't tumble or anything. There are just too many factors to consider.

1Shirt
03-11-2012, 06:36 PM
To many variables. However, not being a Weatherby fan of super vols, am not sure but what I believe I like a nice wide meplat on a cast for game, with a BH somewhere in the 16-18 area, and vol in the 1800-2000 range for 7MM-30 cal ctgs. For 8mm and on up to 45-70 reduce the vols depending on blt wt. to 1400-1600 would suit me.
Regardless, if you fail to put the first shot in the right place, you probably have a potential mess to work with, and some waste in meat.
1Shirt!:coffee:

dunno.458
03-11-2012, 07:37 PM
L Ross,
What I meant was there was more blood shot meat with the 7-08. Shot hit too far back, right on the diaphram, broadside on, angling downwards steeply.

I was shooting for behind the leg, but my trigger release was less than perfect, and pulled it right. So I know shot placement is a big factor. Also forgot to allow for the downwards angle.

Muzzle velocity of the 7-08 load is 2680fps, not max by any means, with a 140gr SP. Range was about 75 meters. The bullet entered just below centre for height, tore up the diaphram and stomach and exited the ribs just above the Brisket to travel forwards under the skin and lodge in the Elbow joint without breaking it. The bullet path was easily trackable under the skin.

Not sure what vital organs were taken out other the diaphram, liver was intact and I don't recall the lungs being torn, don't think I looked as I losing light fast.

He humped up on the shot,staggered, turned about on the spot then halfway back to face me and I was about to give him another one when he reared up, pawing the air, and went over backward over a cliff and I heard him crash to the bottom!

dunno.458
03-11-2012, 08:04 PM
So, you can imagine what I was thinking by then.

By the time I got down to where he was standing and looked down, he was just giving his last feeble kick and that was it. He had fallen at least 4 meters.

Will have to get Verals book. Looked at it a few times, even had it in my shopping cart, never bought it.

Will post a picture if there is interest.

MBTcustom
03-11-2012, 09:23 PM
There is always interest for pictures! Saves you typing out 1000 words or so I here.

Dan Cash
03-11-2012, 09:40 PM
The question is miss aimed. It should be," At what velocity does an animal drop when properly hit?" If there is chewed up meat, so what. The animal is dead and in hand.

firefly1957
03-11-2012, 09:52 PM
Have no idea But have seen blood shot meat from a .562 round ball that would have impacted at about 1600 F/S In fact it looked like the ribs were hit by a Buick!

303Guy
03-11-2012, 09:57 PM
When I was much younger and favoured faster and flatter shooting i loaded up my 303
Brit with 150grs doing 2690fps. Two Impala down with shoulder shots - DRT. Bleeding all the way down the spine (I mean burst blood vessels) to the hip and badly bruised shoulders. The would channel itself though substantial was not that huge. I decided then and there those bullets were too fast and I switched to 180gr's at 2450fps. I shot a bushpig with a 174gr Hornady at 2430fps and that was way better with a shoulder in and out behind the ribcage. Minimum meat damage and DRT. I never shot any other game animal with that gun or bullet (it was my Dad's).

Then again I've shot quite a few goats with the hornet using 55gr's at 2740fps and those wend down like a ton of bricks and bled out internally with virtually no meat damage. Hunters who had shot lots of game said that slower was better citing the 303 Brit and 7mm Mauser both having a MV 2440fps nominal. (In those days they used 174gr RN soft noses in the 7mm).

dunno.458
03-12-2012, 12:10 AM
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_150924f5d754fdc922.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=4406)
From where he fell to where he lay.http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_150924f5d759a0ba5f.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=4407)
After I pulled his head out from under the rock. 20 points, nice and even palms, only a couple of small chips and scrapes from the fall.http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_150924f5d75e158be9.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=4408)
A happy hunter. Just before we loaded him into the truck.

wgr
03-12-2012, 12:24 AM
not sure i agree with 2500. i have shot deer with my .50cal. and patched round ball and got blood shot meat. lot has to do with were you hit them

timbuck
03-12-2012, 12:55 AM
http://www.eabco.com/Reports/report05.htm

The link is to an article at eabco.com website on different combinations of speeds and bullets.
One more theory to add to the pile.

ilcop22
03-12-2012, 01:25 AM
Hit the head and neck = no ruined meat!

In:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/Nosferatu1022/IMG_2279-1.jpg

And out:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/Nosferatu1022/IMG_2299.jpg

303Guy
03-12-2012, 01:33 AM
From my limited field experience and from what I've read, heard and figured, out those charts makes sense. Bullet design and construction complicates things a little - a lot, actually!

Bullet diameter seems to have an influence on impact behaviour. A smaller bullet at higher velocity seems to behave similarly to a large one at lower velocity. I've experienced this several times with two calibres and seen it with one other but just once.

A direct comparison I've witnessed would be a 308 firing 150's versus a 303 firing 180's. The 180's killed beautifully with zero meat loss while the 150 destroyed a quarter of the animal as in mincing it. Similar cup'n core bullets.

So what the heck were we using j-words for!:???:

Anyway, the point being that there seems to be a tendency that we observe but with a few exceptions.

One being shooting a turkey with a 25 doing about 2900 at impact. Now if you've shot turkey you'll know you can blow them in pieces and they still kick around for some time. The same slow 303 Brit did that. But the 25 ballistic tip just turned off the lights. It did not blow up. It just lay down right there and didn't even close it's eyes. That happened twice. That same bullet would blow a goat apart while the 180 Brit simply killed them neatly. Go figure!

303Guy
03-12-2012, 01:38 AM
Hit the head and neck = no ruined meat!I'm scared of head shots. I've tried finishing shots to the head from up close and missed the brain. I've only done one neck shot and that was by accident. It went down but needed finishing off (brain shot - second attempt - head moving erratically).

Dave Bulla
03-12-2012, 02:46 AM
Hit the head and neck = no ruined meat!

??? The neck is my favorite roast on the deer! If I want to save meat, I'll shoot through the ribs and make a point to not hit the shoulder. If I need the deer DRT, high shoulder every time.

I've found that medium to large bore bullets at medium speeds are quite impressive in performance and lack of collateral damage. I'm really liking my 45-70, 35 Rem and the 30-30 as good all around meat guns.

I've got a 9.3x57 that chunks a 286gr bullet at about 2100fps that I'm anxious to use on a critter too.

ilcop22
03-12-2012, 03:00 AM
??? The neck is my favorite roast on the deer! If I want to save meat, I'll shoot through the ribs and make a point to not hit the shoulder. If I need the deer DRT, high shoulder every time.
.

That particular shot did no damage to the neck roast. Aim high, aim small, get good meat!

303Guy
03-12-2012, 04:12 AM
My neck shot had no meat loss. All I had to do was wash the dust out of the wound - and it was quite a large wound. It was a moderate velocity RN bullet.

We haven't had too many 9.3x57's around. It was a favoured African big game cartridge. It's limitation was in range i.e. it was not a plains rifle. Perfect for bush work. Will you be using cast in it? It would make a very good paper patch rifle. You could lift the boolit to 300gr without length increase and still retain the velocity and that without increasing pressure.

nanuk
03-12-2012, 05:17 AM
I've got a 9.3x57 that chunks a 286gr bullet at about 2100fps that I'm anxious to use on a critter too.


I shot 3 deer in 15 minutes last fall... 270 Jwords.all at 200yds, and all using 130gr Remington corelokt.....

I always aim for the rib area just behind the "Elbow", and will wait for a 90deg broadside shot....

lost 5 shoulders to pulverization, bullets were going 5 ways to Sunday through the deer.

my buddy hit a nice 4x4 with a "Century" (??) 140 grain Jword C&C bullet, and it penetrated the skin, made a small hole on a rib but didn't break it.... and all we found was a tiny chunk of lead... no copper... deer had a fist sized bruise.. that was all.

that all said, I don't think you can really lay down a rule... but I know my 338WinMag with Failsafes NEVER made the mess my .270win did this time....

next year, I'll be using my 9.3x62 or x57 with cast, or my "new to me" 3030 Savage Single shot

44 flattop
03-12-2012, 09:44 AM
Heh, all I know is that over a few hundred deer and quite a few elk with the .44 mag/sp and velocities of 900 to 1700fps, seldom, VERY seldom do I ever have any blood shot meat.

44

Beerd
03-12-2012, 03:03 PM
From what I've read here, I'm the 3rd guy to have had a bloodshot mess with a patched roundball.
Muzzle velocity might have been what, 1800 ft/sec or so? And a lot slower at the target.
..

L Ross
03-12-2012, 09:09 PM
Blood shot, but excessive meat damage? Blood shot certainly happens even with muzzle loaders and shotgun slugs. Blood shot is bruising, and that can be peeled and scraped off the meat and from between the layers of muscle and the meat saved. However, the blasted, mascerated, bone splintered gore burger from a high velocity impact usually has to be discarded.

Duke

JDL
03-12-2012, 09:32 PM
From what I've read here, I'm the 3rd guy to have had a bloodshot mess with a patched roundball.
Muzzle velocity might have been what, 1800 ft/sec or so? And a lot slower at the target.
..

I suppose that would make me the fourth. .535 patched with 80 grains of FFFg, IIRC.

303Guy
03-13-2012, 12:24 AM
This is excessive meat loss!

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/1badbullet.jpg

That is an entry wound. It did not kill the critter. That's what you might call a little too high a velocity at too close a range. I don't remember what calibre it was, some belted magnum, 6.5mm maybe. That critter is alleged to have staggard off into some one else's camp or path or something and it was put down with a pistol

waksupi
03-13-2012, 03:10 AM
If you are shooting a jacketed bullet on thin skinned game, use the heaviest round nose thick jacket bullet for caliber available that will shoot well. Then they will perform more like a properly designed cast boolit, and there will be very little blood shot meat.

When I still hunted with jacketed, I wanted my impact velocity below 2400 fps, with cast, my muzzle velocity is around 2200 with the .35, and I suspect the impact velocity is 2000 or less. I can generally eat the hole. This past season, I lost under a half pound of meat, after hitting a shoulder bone on a little buck.

nanuk
03-13-2012, 05:55 AM
waksupi: I hear you.... that is why I am getting into casting, and my thinking for Jwords has changed a lot

TXGunNut
03-13-2012, 10:07 PM
In my (comparatively) limited experience 2500 sounds like a good rule of thumb. Only cartridge that has cost me much meat is slightly over that velocity. Big slowpokes only waste meat when they hit heavy bone, and that's my fault.

leadman
03-13-2012, 11:34 PM
My 7mm Rem mag with 150gr Ballistic Tip at 3,300 fps MV will ruin both shoulders if hit at less than 200 yards and bone is hit. I hit one elk in the big shoulder joint and drove the joint thru to the other shoulder.
The exit wound is usually 4" to 6" across.
I shot one elk with my 7.65X54 Arg. with a Rem 180gr RN at 2,500 fps MV at 175 yards and it dropped in place, but there was no lost meat.
The elk I shot this year was with the 30-06, 150gr Speer BT, 2,700 fps MV, hit on the run at 20 yards. Entrance hole was 2", no exit hole. Elk ran 100 yards, lost very little meat as the bullet went into the ribs behind the shoulder.

I think with bullet velocities less than 2,800 fps there is a little meat lost depending on bullet placement.
With bullet velocities over 3,100 fps there is meat loss no matter where the bullet hits in my experience.

Stick_man
03-19-2012, 06:25 PM
The worst blood shots I have ever seen were from a .270W using factory Bronze Points some 30+ yrs ago. After that, I swore I would never shoot the bronze points at a game animal again. I have taken most of my deer with Rem CoreLokt with good results and little wasted meat (mostly with handloaded ammo). Haven't had the opportunity to take a deer yet with a CB.

Moonie
03-27-2012, 09:18 AM
My 7mm Rem mag with 150gr Ballistic Tip at 3,300 fps MV will ruin both shoulders if hit at less than 200 yards and bone is hit. I hit one elk in the big shoulder joint and drove the joint thru to the other shoulder.
The exit wound is usually 4" to 6" across.
I shot one elk with my 7.65X54 Arg. with a Rem 180gr RN at 2,500 fps MV at 175 yards and it dropped in place, but there was no lost meat.
The elk I shot this year was with the 30-06, 150gr Speer BT, 2,700 fps MV, hit on the run at 20 yards. Entrance hole was 2", no exit hole. Elk ran 100 yards, lost very little meat as the bullet went into the ribs behind the shoulder.

I think with bullet velocities less than 2,800 fps there is a little meat lost depending on bullet placement.
With bullet velocities over 3,100 fps there is meat loss no matter where the bullet hits in my experience.

Middle son shot his first deer with a 7mm Rem mag with 150gr Ballistic tip, range was about 30 feet... Impact velocity was so high that the bullet did not exit, it disintegrated, there was alot of blood shot meat. We lost an entire front shoulder, there was nothing left of it.

MT Gianni
03-27-2012, 02:14 PM
Worst bloodshot meat I had was with a 125 gr 357. I was shooting down and hit between the shoulder blades. For whatever reason it had bloodshot meat through the loins and both ribs almost 15" down.

Rick Hodges
04-04-2012, 11:20 AM
Where you hit it makes a big difference. My last 3 whitetails were taken with a Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70. The load is a 300 gr. hp J_word at 1880 fps at the muzzle. Two were taken with a shoulder shot and resulted in a lot of bloodshot meat. One through the ribs just behind the shoulder lost no meat.

BOOM BOOM
04-06-2012, 02:52 PM
HI'
In the 70'-80' the Europeans did a lot of terminal ballistic studies, while we were focusing cartridge internal/external ballistics.
Most of what I read was the German research. They found that velocities above 2,800'/s resulted in blood shot meat due to hydrostatic shock.
This was with bullet placement controlled.
ALSO THEY CONCLUDED THE UNLESS VELOCITY WAS 2,800'/S minimum YOU DID NOT GET HYDROSTATIC SHOCK EFFECT.
This is at the time all the gun rags here were extolling the hydrostatic shock effect of the 357 & other mag. pistol rounds.
I personally do not believe these pistol rounds have a hydrostatic shock effect in living tissue. Yes they blow up milk jugs nicely but that is not living tissue.
I believe the blood shot effect from pistol rounds is the result of other factors.

The DRT effect may be the result of acklinic (sp) shock or a nervous system cascade similar to an epileptic seizure.:Fire::Fire:

L Ross
04-07-2012, 09:26 PM
I have started studying Glenn Fryxell's excellent treatise, (From Ingot to Target). I was reading Chapter 15 and found it to be germane to this topic. Perhaps it can shed some light on this subject.

Duke

GREENCOUNTYPETE
04-12-2012, 11:08 AM
we get blood shot meet from 12 ga slugs that box velocity is listed at 1600fps

it must be a combination of mass , velocity , and surface area

and maybe thickness of the deers blood , strength of it's cell walls

just imagine if a deer was on blood thinners , you could shoot it in the neck and have blood shot hams , ok maybe not that bad , but many of my relatives are on the stuff , they bruise so easily from every day bumps

Slam'n Salmon
04-15-2012, 08:11 PM
If you are shooting a jacketed bullet on thin skinned game, use the heaviest round nose thick jacket bullet for caliber available that will shoot well. Then they will perform more like a properly designed cast boolit, and there will be very little blood shot meat.

When I still hunted with jacketed, I wanted my impact velocity below 2400 fps, with cast, my muzzle velocity is around 2200 with the .35, and I suspect the impact velocity is 2000 or less. I can generally eat the hole. This past season, I lost under a half pound of meat, after hitting a shoulder bone on a little buck.

I've heard good reports for Horn 250 gr RN in 35 whelen. I use 358318 but haven't hunted it yet.

303Guy
04-18-2012, 03:05 PM
No hydrostatic shock below 2800 fps? Perhaps we need to understand what is meant by 'hydrostatic shock'.

I've shot a cat sized critter with a 180gr RNSP trundling along at 2400fps, hitting it on the tip of the jaw. The bullet exited the rump. It was split open from jaw to stomach. The ribs were broken, the fore-arms were skinned and the fore-arm bones broken. The internal organs were still whole. I shot another such critter with a 223 soft point, hitting it on the shoulder neck and again exiting out the rump. The effects were similar but this time the internal organs were pulp. Hydrostatic shock pulping the organs? Flesh displacement wave breaking the fore-arm bones? Maybe they are referring to an overpressure wave? Such a wave would tear cells apart by compression. Like a sound wave as opposed to a 'wave'?

runfiverun
04-18-2012, 04:16 PM
i mainly keep my j-words in the 2800 fps area for this reason.
with a slightly tougher bullet it seems to work best for me.
good penetration and minimal meat loss.
the one time i took my x57 icl over 3k muzzle velocity it actually threw the little buck sideways and destroyed the off shoulder. that was with a hornady bonded 140.
two days later i shot a cow elk in the same spot [on the animal] with a load going 2850 but with the hornady 139 interlock, from the same rifle.
it just passed through both shoulders with the normal 50 cent sized exit hole i have been gettng on deer with a behind the shoulder shot.
the muzzle velocity [impact velocity] really makes the biggest difference in how the bullet behaves on game.
from that point on i stay with that same velocity bullet combo.
i know the penetration is there as i seen the wife shoot lengthwise through two bucks
one facing us [the bullet entered the collar bone and exited in front of the rear leg] and one away [the bullet continued from the first buck and into the ribs and out through the throat] with a m/v at 2775 at a similar distance that i shot both that buck and elk.

had that been tried with a sierra would it have worked? dunno, i have seen them jello the inside of a deer and not exit with a similar velocity distance in a couple of different rifle calibers.
a rem core lokt would most likely have done it.
a speer? maybe
winchesters cxp-11 bullets? nope, they are waay too fragile.

so the velocity and bullets construction must be balanced for it to perform properly.
this goes for cast also, a high velocity flat nosed boolit cast from a fairly hard alloy will react much differently from a softer boolit or a lower velocity when striking an animal.
in my argies and 7.7 jap rifle i use an alloy of 22 boolits with 1% tin air cooled.
but it is in an annealed copper tubing base weighing 180 grs and is started out at 2250 fps.
the tubing is rolled on the ends locking the lead and jaxket together and a canellure is applied and then crimped with a lee die giving the bullet a slight wasp waist effect [this is where expansion stops] it will penetrate bones and such quite easily and will drop a deer right now with a decent shot.
it is definately not velocity working here.
but the boolit opens quite quickly and retains it's integrity through the animal.
it does leave a slightly larger exit hole through the shoulder bones/spine/and neck bones.
i did find some fragments once from a head shot little girl made on a doe at about 30 yds.
they were on the back of the eyeball that was hanging out.

303Guy
04-19-2012, 07:39 PM
Found this on hydrostatic shock. It refer's to pressure causing brain damage, not bullet velocity which makes a lot more sense.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/TBIpwave.jpgSo whom do we believe? One source says a study conducted in the 70's-80's. Another produces a statitical graph alongside forensic evidence obtained from autopsies. Methinks a large chunk of detail has been left out of the 70's-80's study, i.e. bullet styles used.

That graph refers to pistol bullets! The article doesn't say what critters were used in the study but they were chest shots. It doesn't say whether the critters actually died from the test shots or were put down after for the autopsies. In fact, it doesn't say the test subjects were critters.

Good Cheer
04-20-2012, 04:30 PM
I've destroyed a front half on a shoulder shot with a wheel weight #375296 at about 2000FPS impact velocity. Looked like he swallowed a grenade.
.375x45-70, 26" barrel, compressed charge of 760 and mag primer. Was made to be "good enough" at 200 yards. At less than 100 it can be a bit much.