Where to start

[Budmen]

I am opening a gun shop in my basement to start within the next year. I have started all my paperwork and running around for the appropriate licenses and such. Being that I am only 28yrs old I am trying to get this to a operational shop for which when I retire 32yrs from now I can have a business that pays for my hobby!!!!

For the next lets say 10yrs I plan on just having a dealers license and possibly ammuntions manufacturing license.. In the future I would love to get into light smithing. I hope by the time I retire to have a full service shop and some knowledge to operate it. Every penny that I gain will go back into the business to achieve the goal.


Can you please recommend a good starting point for books to begin to learn some basic techniques and tooling requirements? I cannot devote the time to a school or apprentiship at this time but I am eger to start learning

Thanks in advance I have already learned so much from this site!!!!:lol:

[danski26]

Roy Dunlaps gunsmithing book should be on your shelf and "The Gunsmith Machinist" parts one and two are very good.

Also pickup some machinist text books BEFORE you start buying equipment.

The best source of info are those old crusty retired smiths enjoying retirement. Find one and make friends!

[danski26]

Also, If you are going to be working on"customers" guns, don't forget insurance. You might want to start out working on your own guns first. It would be cheaper to buy yourself some junker guns to work on.

[danski26]

I was in the same spot you are in 10 years ago. I have my full time job and work on guns as a hobby. I don't have an FFL but I don't do any work that I need one yet. I have two of those retired grouchy gunsmiths that REALLY help me out a lot!

I have aquired a south bend Heavy 10 lathe, Bridgeport Mill and a medium sized mill/drill and am learning new things every time I turn one on. TIG welding is next on my list to get started on.

There is a LOT to learn before you need an FFL!

[John 242]

I'm kind of in the same boat as you are although a bit older and probably uglier.
I start a two year program in the fall and hope to be at least working out of the home shop (garage) when that become practical.
One book I've found useful is Gunsmithing Tools and Their Uses, by John E. Traister.
Not really a 'how to' book, he goes over the basic gunsmithing tools used for general repair.
Might be a tad bit dated, but the basics are still there. I picked my copy at a gun show for $5.00 but I'd pay $15 to $20 for it.

My school's required tool list, which is about the same as most of the other schools, contains some of the common hand tools used to perform basic gunsmithing. I could e-mail you a copy. A lot of the stuff you may already have.

Not knowing anything about machining, I've found free copies of South Bend Lathe Operations and Bridgeport manuals on-line, including old Army correspondence courses on lathe and mill operations.

You tube has been helpful in introducing me to new concepts. MrPete222 has some very interesting machining videos that although not gun related, are presented as if you are in a machine shop class. I've learned a lot and can now at least understand some of what the machinists around here are talking about. Not 100%, but I get the idea.
There are quite a few gunsmithing videos, some by Bubba, others by JPL, Wilson Combat, Midway USA that are informative and interesting. No, you won't become an expert watching a video, but they fill in the gaps left by some books.
The Kuhnhausen .45 Automatic book and especially the Mauser book at times leave me scratching my head. Google helps, along with a video or two on You tube, help pull everything together.

By the way, good luck man. I hope it all comes together for you.

[Budmen]

Thanks for all the input I really appreciate it! Like I said its just the begining now I just want some reading material and I have one guy but he is TOTALLY retired and really hard to get anything out of but his son and I are friends so hopefully I can get more the more I learn and the less he has to explain everything.

Of course I will start working on only my guns noone elses. I would not like to be the guy who ruins gramps gun that has been in the family for 50yrs!!!

As far as the FFL like I said it is going to be just a Gun Shop with No gun work for now just a sales point for now. I already love buying and selling on a small scale and have done pretty good at it on a personal basis .

Thanks Again for the replies

[John Taylor]

First off build yourself a shop separate from your home, can't have a gun shop in your basement. The laws were changed several years back to keep people from selling gun out their back door. If you keep a gun overnight you need a license and it needs to be logged into your log book. If you buy a used action and build a gun from it you need a manufactures license ( 98 Mauser or other action). You will be required to open your books for the BATF when ever they want to look at them and they may check to see that any guns in the shop are in your book. You will need regular business hours so the BATF can know when they can stop by.

[Budmen]

First off build yourself a shop separate from your home, can't have a gun shop in your basement. The laws were changed several years back to keep people from selling gun out their back door. If you keep a gun overnight you need a license and it needs to be logged into your log book. If you buy a used action and build a gun from it you need a manufactures license ( 98 Mauser or other action). You will be required to open your books for the BATF when ever they want to look at them and they may check to see that any guns in the shop are in your book. You will need regular business hours so the BATF can know when they can stop by.

I read the BATF recommended federal firearms Laws books as well as the New York State firearms law book spoke to a Batf representive from the NYC office and nothing at all stated your place of business couldnt be your home dwelling. It does however state it must have its own enterance a fire rated steel door and an alarm system. If I remembere correctly it also states you dont need any safe just a "secure place of storage" for the firearms. Also I do remember there is a section of which it states you cannot store your personal arms with your for sale firearms. I have heard and read that you cannot open a shop in your dwelling but as far as the BATF law book and the local BATF agency is concerned it can be. I do have all the legal information straight from the BATF.

"If you keep a gun overnight you need a license and it needs to be logged into your log book" I wonder what you mean by this if I borrow my buddies hunting rifle I need to have a license?????????? What if I buy it from him?????? I realize after I have my FFL the requirments of a log book containing every gun in my shop is manditory

Im not trying to be an ignorant a@# here! I appreciate the reply and any help is appreciated if you have any of that in writing or know where I can find it in writing I may have to change my plans. In the long run and in the perfect world I will have a great shop with a machine shop attached

[Budmen]

John 242 That is exactly the help I have been looking for and grown accustom to on this site thanks And good luck on your venture too....... What class are you attending? Letme know how it works out for you!!!!

[danski26]

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf

Page 185 Section "I2"

This answers the question of taking a gun overnight and an FFL's need to enter it as an "acquisition."

[danski26]

Bud,

John knows what he is doing. You may want to tread a bit lighter as he is just trying to help.

[Budmen]

danski: thats what I rembered but John Taylor states "If you keep a gun overnight you need a license" That applies to once you have a license not to the regular JOE. Thanks hope that didnt take too much time to find did you find anything about not your home dwelling????

[Budmen]

By no means am I trying to affend anyone at all I love this site and all the information it has provided. I apologize to John if I seemed to be offensive!!! I just would hate to have this go the wrong way get my shop open and have the BATF come in in a year just to shut it down....
Again sorry if I seem like a internet tough guy this is why I like to talk Face to Face so I dont get people mad by typing the wrong words not meaning to

[danski26]

Then look in that same link, section "I1" on who needs an FFL when working on guns and it refers you to section "16" in the general portion. If you get paid to work on guns you need an FFL.

John mentioned having a seperate "building" as a shop. You MIGHT be able to work out of you basement......however. Local zoning, the chief LE officer, your insurance company and you local ATF agent/supervisor will have a chance to deny your FFL if they don't want you working out of your basement.

[Budmen]

I edited my reply hopefully I dont seem like such a jerk here.. Thanks for the headsup

[danski26]

I hear ya Bud....it's tough to gauge "tone" in a post. No probs here.

[Budmen]

Danski26 thanks for all your help do appreciate it

[John 242]

John 242 That is exactly the help I have been looking for and grown accustom to on this site thanks And good luck on your venture too....... What class are you attending? Letme know how it works out for you!!!!

It's a two year program offered through Murray State Community College.
I've heard good and I've heard bad about school trained gunsmiths and school programs, but I figured I'd give it a shot, literally.

The Murray program, from what I've been told and seen on my tour of the school, teaches some machining and welding, along with other traditional gunsmithing. We'll see.
Regardless of whether the school turns out to be everything I want or not, the balls in my court to learn as much as I can and drive as hard as I can.

By the way, did you know that Murray, Trinidad, Mongomery and Lassen all offer NRA sponsored summer programs in a variety of gunsmithing subjects?
For most people, enrolling in 2-years of school is not going to happen, but the summer classes are about a week long and spread over the summer.

[justashooter]

First off build yourself a shop separate from your home, can't have a gun shop in your basement. The laws were changed several years back to keep people from selling gun out their back door. If you keep a gun overnight you need a license and it needs to be logged into your log book. If you buy a used action and build a gun from it you need a manufactures license ( 98 Mauser or other action). You will be required to open your books for the BATF when ever they want to look at them and they may check to see that any guns in the shop are in your book. You will need regular business hours so the BATF can know when they can stop by.

now john, you know that's not quite right. i am liscensed to operate out of my home, but have gone to the trouble to site my business area in a room with a seperate outside entrance (this limits inspection to the business area only).

agreed that overnight posession for pay means an FFL required and all log book rules apply. agreed that value added is taxable, and persons "engaged in the business" should become manufacturer when manufacturing is their business, but withheld that an occasional build is not "engaging in the business" (ATF used to say >50 guns per year was the definition of manufacturer, they are not talking these days until they have a warrant).

OP, go ahead and get your liscense. buy and sell for profit, and buy the occasional "project gun" for your own learning. when you get good enuf on your project guns, offer your skills within the limits of your ability.

[John Taylor]

I'm just going on what the BATF told me when I started. They also go by state and county laws so it could be that the separate building was a county or state law when I got my license. A year or two back I was sent a notice from BATF about manufacturing guns from actions. It said if you buy an action and install a barrel and stock you are manufacturing a firearm. I don't argue with them, just try to stay under the radar. Best bet is to check with the BATF and get any questions answered in writing. Different agents interpret the law differently.