Any narrower aperture rear sight for a P14/P17 Enfield?

[wellfedirishman]

Does anyone know how to add (or know of one for sale) a narrow rear aperture sight to a P14 or P17 Enfield?

I like the aperture-style sight, but find that the P14 aperture is much too wide for accurate shooting with my eyes. I prefer a narrower hole to focus through.

I have tried using tape over the aperture and poking a hole in it, but found that I couldn't get a clear picture.

A stick-on sight with a narrow aperture drilled through it might do the trick. I could make one from a piece of aluminum or similar, but wanted to ask here first if anyone has tried it.

Edit: Added a picture of a standard P14 sight. The aperture hole is too big, as visible here.

[walltube]

... black poster paper, aluminium beverage can, and thin polystyrene for the P14, No4 and 5. No happiness.

Have you visited Numrich? They had at one time adjustable target sights for No.4&5 rifles. Excellent quality. The two for my No4 and 5 have yet to be installed.

The P14? I've considered Bufallo Arms' adjustable iris sights to fit a P14 factory aperture. These sights have a standard thread stud that may be screwed into the P14 aperture after a D&T. Now this is an assumption on my part that the P14 aperture has sufficent metal to accomodate a D&T. I do not know. And no, I do not know how to post a link to Buffalo Arms.


I also don't know if I've been one iota of help to you, but I given it my best. :)

Good luck and keep us posted,
Y.T.,
Wt.

[nicholst55]

I dunno what kind of sight you have, but Williams makes smaller apertures for their receiver sights. Brownells carries them, or you could order direct from Williams (http://www.williamsgunsight.com/).

[walltube]

reffering to, click on "Hadley Eye Cups".


http://www.buffaloarms.com/products.aspx?CAT=3750

[Four Fingers of Death]

I had one before (I still have a few of them, but haven't modified these), I measured the hole by trying drill bits in the aperature, then once I had the size, I filled the hole with bog (you guys call it bondo, we used to call it nicky when I was younger). Brushed it lightly with a toothbrush to put the lines in it. When set I carefully drilled a new smaller aperature and after shooting it, went to a slightly bigger size. Worked ok, I taped the rest of the sight off and sprayed it with matte black paint.

I suppose you could investigate drilling and tapping it and fitting a screw in aperature like the Foolproof and other sights have, or even a target aperature. Not much metal to play with though.

[Four Fingers of Death]

WoW ! Cool site! I was a repro Gatling gun and a 03A3 Sniper repro! As well as a squillion other cool things they have there.

[Multigunner]

A suggestion I haven't tried myself sounded promising.
A member of another board told of finding a very small diameter hollow rivet that he was able to press fit into the apeture.
Not sure but this may have been for a No.5 carbine sight, which often has a ridiculously large apeture.

[walltube]

Here are some images of the target sight made for No.4 and 5 rifles. Not a drop in, needs a bit of d&t. When I bought the two from Numrich I entertained a fantasy that one may be easily adapted to my P14. I was advised to forget that notion and look for a Parker-Hale made to fit the P14 (M1917 too) instead. My oldest son has a P-H on his Win. M1917. Very nice piece of kit.

It's all about the adjustable iris. Hence my idea that a 'Hadley Cup' may be the solution. Probably not...:mrgreen:

[Char-Gar]

I have a good US 1917 on the way to me. I plan to get a spare rear sight from Gun Parts Corp and drill and tap the military peep to take standard Lyman/Redfield apeture discs. I have the drill and tap, so it won't be a problem. There is enough meat in the rear sight to have enough threads to hold the apeture disc just fine.

For my purposes there is enough course elevation adjustment in the issue rear sight and I will drift the front sight for elevation if need to be, when I get my standard load. I am not into target shooting, just fun shooting.

I strongly suspect my standard load will be 50/WC872/1 cc PSB over 311284 or RCBS 165 SIL. This load has shot well (either bullet) in my half dozen other 30-06s, and see no reason, it would not do well, in this new one with a JA two groove barrel. I will have to try both bullets to see if the rifle has a preference. Most likely it won't.

[walltube]

I have a good US 1917 on the way to me. I plan to get a spare rear sight from Gun Parts Corp and drill and tap the military peep to take standard Lyman/Redfield apeture discs. I have the drill and tap, so it won't be a problem. There is enough meat in the rear sight to have enough threads to hold the apeture disc just fine.

Am I understanding you correctly that you will d&t THE peep sight hole? Will there be, given the outside diameter of your intended Lyman\Redfield, enough clearance that it may not interfere with the lowest elevation setting? I'm trying to visualise the finished product.

Y.T.,
Wt.

[Larry Gibson]

Char-Gar's solution is best...have done it a couple times over the years for others.

I have a good US 1917 on the way to me. I plan to get a spare rear sight from Gun Parts Corp and drill and tap the military peep to take standard Lyman/Redfield apeture discs. I have the drill and tap, so it won't be a problem. There is enough meat in the rear sight to have enough threads to hold the apeture disc just fine.

I didn't run the tap in to full diameter but just far enough the threads on the aperture stem were a tight twist in fit.

Larry Gibson

[wellfedirishman]

Thanks folks for the good info.

Walltube, I actually have that same sight on my Enfield and love it. Am equivalent one for the P14/P17 would be great.

Char-gar (and Larry) that idea of D&Ting the aperture to take a Lyman disc is good, I have a couple of them spare. Do you know what the thread pitch for the Lyman discs is by any chance?

[Char-Gar]

Walltube.. At one time Lyman made some discs that had a quite small outside diameter. There were used for sights that swung back like those mounted on the Mannlicher so the bolt could pass through the top of the rear receiver ring. I have a few of those. They won't cause any fit problem with the 1917 sight base. Throw in the fact that we need elevation for cast bullets and everything will be OK. On the 03A3 issue sight and my cast bullet load, I have to set it at 600 yards to get a dead on 100 yard zero. So the 1917 sight will be up the staff a mite with cast bullets.

If a fellow doesn't have one of the small OD discs, he could always chuck up the large disc and turn it down a mite. We all do have lathes don't we?

I am going to leave the rear battle sight alone and just D&T the one on the staff.

Wellfedirishman.. The Lyman/Redfield holes are tapped 7/32 X 40. This is an oddball tap size. In theory this is the correct size for both Lyman and Redfield, but you have to horse the Redfield discs into the threads a little. I think the angle of the threads is a little different.

I intend to drill and tap the issue sight. Turn the excess off the stem so it will be a good fit and the elevation staff can lay down. I will then use some Lock-Tite on the threads and I am good to go.

[Four Fingers of Death]

One option is to fit a target sight. I don't know what is available over there, but Central sights and side plates are reasonably common in Australia. The advantage of the Parker sight is that it uses the original foreasight, whereas a target sight probably wouldn't.

[Jon K]

How about a Merit Adjustable Aperture?

Available in 10-32 tpi or 7/32-40 tpi.

Jon

[JMtoolman]

I modified mine once so it would be reversible if I wanted. Found a small O ring with the right inside diameter, think it was for a carb. A drop of glue and on the sight centered in the hole. Worked like a champ, and was black to boot! The toolman.

[Multigunner]

I modified mine once so it would be reversible if I wanted. Found a small O ring with the right inside diameter, think it was for a carb. A drop of glue and on the sight centered in the hole. Worked like a champ, and was black to boot! The toolman.

Strangely enough I had revisited the thread to suggest just that.
I had remembered buying some very tiny O-rings to replace those on the air pressure gauge on the converted natural gas bottle I used to carry compressed air for inflating tires.
The ones I got for the gauge stem were a wee bit too big for a sight apeture (except maybe a No.5 sight), but the store sold much smaller ones as well.

[Bob S]

One of these will fit the elevation slide aperture after it is tapped, and the slide will still go down to 200 yards, but no lower. It will also obstruct the battle sight. If neither of these "complications" bothers you, it's workable.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/324116/williams-aperture-regular-3-8-diameter-with-050-hole-black




For my purposes there is enough course elevation adjustment in the issue rear sight and I will drift the front sight for elevation if need to be, when I get my standard load.

Chargar,

I'm curious ... how do you adjust elevation by "drifting" the front sight? :wink:

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[Char-Gar]

Well that was supposed to be windage, but you knew that already.

[walltube]

the "Parker-Hale" sites and have learned those Numrich 'target sights' are for Enfield .22 caliber conversions. Purists warn of degrading your No.4 or 5, prime collectors status with a non-standard d&t. Thought perhaps some purists here may need to know this.:rolleyes:

After reading all the v'good informative posts, I'll opt for Char's idea. Buy a another, complete back sight from gunscorp to convert using a readily available Lyman sight disc. Removing the shaft's fixed battle aperture will allow for an unobstructed, very low elevation. I sometimes shoot at very short range(s). Meantime, maybe an affordable P-H5B will come my way.

wellfedirishman,
I'll ignore all the No.4 collector status fuss and install the target sight as you have done. Thanks for the prompt. Hope you've found an answer here. So many good suggestions.

I thank you all,
Wt.

[walltube]

Well, well. How about that. BobS comes along and posts another readily available sight disc while I go on about my future Lyman project. Just goes to show Ya....

Thanks, BobS
Wt.

[Bob S]

Serendipitous ... as it happens, I had just ordered one for a different project. :mrgreen:

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Some years back I had a cheap mid-range sight on a Roller. The disk had a large hole through it. Another BP cartrige shooter suggested putting a drop of lead in the hole and drilling it with number drills. Worked well.
Mike in Peru

[flounderman]

jb weld and a drill bit and an aperature that sticks on your glasses and you will see things in a whole new light. the aperature on the glasses clears everything up. at one time, merit had an adjustable one but it is pricey. I have just a cheap soft clear plastic one, but it works. you can try putting a piece of paper over your glasses with a pin hole to look thru and see how it helps. hard to keep it positioned right, but it will show you what is possible.

[curator]

When shooting both my P-14 and No4Mk1 rifle in military matches thirty years ago we were required to have original equipment sights. Most of us put a piece of plastic electrical tape over the rear sight aperture and used a safety pin to make a smaller sighting hole. This also gave us a little windage adjustment by modifying the location of the pin hole.

[walltube]

When shooting both my P-14 and No4Mk1 rifle in military matches thirty years ago we were required to have original equipment sights. Most of us put a piece of plastic electrical tape over the rear sight aperture and used a safety pin to make a smaller sighting hole. This also gave us a little windage adjustment by modifying the location of the pin hole.

you Floridians, so very clever. Aren't Ya'll. Nice trick, Curator. Will give it a try.

Don't know if I can say the same 30 yrs. from now. But I'll work at it.

Thanks for tip,
Wt.

[Bob S]

When shooting both my P-14 and No4Mk1 rifle in military matches thirty years ago we were required to have original equipment sights. Most of us put a piece of plastic electrical tape over the rear sight aperture and used a safety pin to make a smaller sighting hole. This also gave us a little windage adjustment by modifying the location of the pin hole.

That's not permitted by CMP as-issued rules. But then there were no CMP as-issued rules 30 years ago. :-P

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Trouble is, military rifles were designed to be operated by a nineteen year old.

[flounderman]

the aperature on your glasses will clear up the sights, depending on your type of vision problem. you want the front sight focused and the aperature near your eye will do that. the size of the rear aperature isn't that important because your eye will center the sight in it. the front sight is the important one you want to be sharp.

[Char-Gar]

Addendum: Springfield Sporters (724-254-2625) has the 1917 rear sight staff and slide (Item 32) for $12.00, which is much cheaper than Gun Parts. They also have front sight blades in different heights for $2.00 each or $7.00 for the set of 5 different heights. These are the same front sights used for the Mk I Enfield and the parts number for these is 3A. Changing out the front sights can help you raise or lower the POI of your rifle, to get you rear sight regulated.

I took a rifle to my eye doctor and had a special set of glasses made for shooting iron sights. I can now see like a 19 year old again. If you do lots of iron sight shooting, these are well worth the cost.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Addendum: Springfield Sporters (724-254-2625) has the 1917 rear sight staff and slide (Item 32) for $12.00, which is much cheaper than Gun Parts. They also have front sight blades in different heights for $2.00 each or $7.00 for the set of 5 different heights. These are the same front sights used for the Mk I Enfield and the parts number for these is 3A. Changing out the front sights can help you raise or lower the POI of your rifle, to get you rear sight regulated.

I took a rifle to my eye doctor and had a special set of glasses made for shooting iron sights. I can now see like a 19 year old again. If you do lots of iron sight shooting, these are well worth the cost.

My eyesight is pretty good (for an old fart), but I often use a 1X magnification pair of Chinese reading glasses (which is what I use to read with, I can read without, but easier and quicker with the specs). This brings the front sight in real sharp and helps a lot. The target is slightly blurry, but having the front sight so sharp makes for good scores (well, once again, good for an old fart, lol). This works well on my pistols and lever guns fired at speed (well, I call it speed the younger shooters probably have another word for it, but they are polite cowboys as a rule) during cowboy shoots as well.

You have all heard of Sweet's 7.62 cleaning solvent I suppose, I often hear it mentioned on the net by Americans. Well the guy who invented it was Jim Sweet, an Australian and was an optometerist in Sydney. I met him many years ago, he was a bit of an icon in Palma style rifle shooting in his day. He was retired from shooting when I met him. When he was at his peak, they caught the cagy old guy with a lens in his foresight and a lens in his rear sight, effectively giving him about 4x magnification. He got banned from competition for a period.

One of those target iris thingos that sit on your glasses might be a help.

[walltube]

Char-Gar,
Thank you for posting the Springfield Sporters heads up. It's a money saver for more than an Enfield sight.

Y.T.,
Wt.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I'm not rrying to hijack the thread here, but.........

What was popular with Kiwis (New Zealanders) for a peep sight was the base of a cartridge case (with Boxer primer knocked out of course) soldered to the rear reciever ring of a Mauser. I owned an Israeli Mauser which had this treatment and it worked well.

I also saw a Mauser with a peep sight made from two small nuts, one laying flat and one standing, welded to the rear reciever ring. My mate had one of these and it also worked a treat. He fitted an SMLE foresight blade in place of the original barleycorn German sight blade and campaigned with that old beater 8mm rifle for many years. Always ate venison or his special kangaroo/wild pig/ venison sausages or hamburgers when I visited. The barrelled action was painted in engine black and topped up with another coat as was needed and the sporter stock was trimmed down at the butt, another piece of wood dovetailed into it and a recoil pad fitted. The barrel channel was varnished and the rest of the wood had linseed oil rubbed into it. It looked ok from a distance, but it was a solid performer over many years.