S&W Model 1903, Second change

[Mk42gunner]

I just bought a new to me .32 S&W Long. It is a S&W Model 1903, Second change, I think, S/N is in the 55,000 range. The little I frame has a 4 1/4" barrel and one of the smoothest actions I have ever felt, way smoother than any coil spring J frame I ever shot.

Since this isn't supposed to have a heattreated cylinder, I do not want to push the loads. I have the Ideal 313445 that used to be recommended a lot for the .32 S&W Long, but don't have the almost universal recommended Unique powder. Powders that I have on hand close to the suitable burning rate are: Red Dot, Green Dot, W231, and Hercules 2400 although I think the 2400 might be for loads a little too hot for this gun.

Suggestions? Stay with starting loads?

I do not have it in hand, I am still waiting for the NICS delay to clear (instant my left foot).

Robert

[dubber123]

2.5 grains of Red Dot should do well for you with the common 98 gr. RN's or SWC's. I used a similar charge of Bullseye in my I frame, and was delighted with the accuracy. The best boolit I have found, although it's a bit lighter is the RCBS SWC. It really outshoots all others I have tried. Does your gun have the .314" throats that mine does? Getting properly sized boolits made a big difference in mine.

[Mk42gunner]

I do not have it in hand, I am still waiting for the NICS delay to clear (instant my left foot).

The first thing I plan to do is slug it when it finally comes home. My 313445 drops at ~.314, so maybe it will work for this caliber; I haven't been real satisfied with it in anything else. I may end up getting the RCBS mold, all the other ones I have in this diameter strike me as being too heavy for a 32 SWL.

After reading Glen's article on lasc, I have been thinking of using your recommended charge of 2.5 Red Dot. I will probably start there, and if accuracy is sufficient, end there.

Robert

[NoZombies]

There are at least 2 versions of the 313445, one has a reduced diameter band above the crimp groove, one has a full diameter band above the crimp grove. The full diameter version tends to shoot better, if it will fit in the cylinder.

That said, I've shot both through a number if I-frames, and the differences were only slightly more than marginal. The 313445 does not like to pushed hard from my experience. Others may have different experience with it. 2.5 grains of red-dot seems like as good a place as any to start, considering your powders on hand.

The RCBS "SWC" mold is also right at home in the little guns, and even the 3118, if cast soft, and thrown slow, will usually produce good accuracy. I needed the extra weight in some of my little I-frames to make the guns shoot to the sights.

Good luck, and have fun!

[Mk42gunner]

There are at least 2 versions of the 313445, one has a reduced diameter band above the crimp groove, one has a full diameter band above the crimp grove. The full diameter version tends to shoot better, if it will fit in the cylinder.

Learn something new everyday. I just measured some from the peanut butter jar; the front band is running about .008" smaller than the driving bands. Maybe this explains why they didn't shoot well from the Ruger SSM. They do group into about three inches at fifty yards from my Mini-Mauser.

I also have a GB 314-120 (sorta copy of a 3118) and a couple of 311316 molds, but don't see the need for a gascheck in this caliber.

I have been thinking I need to get a decent 95-100 grain or lighter mold for the various .32's that I have. I guess I'll try what I have on hand first. Too bad the Ranch Dog 314-75 isn't about 10 grains heavier.

I am definitely going to try to get whatever load I settle on to hit POA/POI.

Robert

[leftiye]

2400 isn't as fast burning, and has a slower pressure rise. It will burn a little dirty, but can be loaded safely in that chamber. It works well even in a Colt police positive Special which is a much smaller revolver with less metal around the chambers. Loads from Lyman cast boolit manual, especially the milder ones are probly fine. Blue dot should be even better being a shotgun powder should burn fine at 16000 psi. Might surprise you how it can push a boolit. P.S. it's probly a 1905 Hand Ejector model second change.

[rintinglen]

+1 on the RCBS 32-98 SWC. It is a great boolit for just about any 32 revolver. For a powder charge on your 313-345, try 2.7 grains of ww231. Red Dot was a little too "fluffy" for me when run through a meter and in a small case, +- .1 grains can matter.
Right now, I am getting ready to load up some 32-98 WC and will be loading them over 1.8 grains of Bullseye. What a change from the charges in my 44's!

[NoZombies]

Yeah, the smaller forward band variant does tend to work better in rifles, providing a "bore riding" effect I assume.

The 120 grainer you mentioned will probably give you better results than you're expecting. I was always astonished at how well the 3118 shot through my little hand ejectors.

[Mk42gunner]

2400 isn't as fast burning, and has a slower pressure rise. It will burn a little dirty, but can be loaded safely in that chamber. It works well even in a Colt police positive Special which is a much smaller revolver with less metal around the chambers. Loads from Lyman cast boolit manual, especially the milder ones are probly fine. Blue dot should be even better being a shotgun powder should burn fine at 16000 psi. Might surprise you how it can push a boolit. P.S. it's probly a 1905 Hand Ejector model second change.

I did notice in the 2nd Ed Lee that most of the loads were under 12,000 PSI.

Not to dispute what you said, I know just enough about the early S&W's to know how much I don't know; but I thought the 1905 was the K frame? This is the tiny little precursor to the J frame.


+1 on the RCBS 32-98 SWC. It is a great boolit for just about any 32 revolver. For a powder charge on your 313-345, try 2.7 grains of ww231. Red Dot was a little too "fluffy" for me when run through a meter and in a small case, +- .1 grains can matter.
Right now, I am getting ready to load up some 32-98 WC and will be loading them over 1.8 grains of Bullseye. What a change from the charges in my 44's!

I have been thinking about metering these small charges. My current powder measure is a RCBS Uniflow with the large drum. I will probably make a specific dipper once I settle on a load, and I do like the way 231 meters.

I do have most of a CH measure that was on one of the Auto Champion loaders, maybe it will work for tiny charges.


Yeah, the smaller forward band variant does tend to work better in rifles, providing a "bore riding" effect I assume.

The 120 grainer you mentioned will probably give you better results than you're expecting. I was always astonished at how well the 3118 shot through my little hand ejectors.

I am trying to keep an open mind about what loads and boolits to try; it just seems to me the .32SWL should be using a ~95-100 grain boolit.

I guess the thing to remember is that every gun is a law unto itself.

Robert

[leftiye]

My bad, poor memory, though I can't imagine them not taking 16,000 psi (not saying to load that hot though). Blue dot would still be my top choice. Should love to run at 12000 psi. As a powder it gives top velocity to psi ratios in low pressure ctgs. A real 1903, purty rare eh? I thought you'd made a typo.

[EMC45]

RCBS 32-098. It will do it.

[Green Frog]

I've been using a little 100 gr SWC bullet (medium hard cast, LLA lube) in front of 2.0 grains of Bullseye. If any .32 Smith of mine can be shot at all, I feel safe shooting this load in it. I was out at the club yesterday shooting my little post-War .32 HE I-frame snubbie and was reminded again how good this load is and why I like it so much. :)

Froggie

[Mk42gunner]

We have a keeper here. I picked it up this morning, and had to try it out. The gun shop owner gave me twelve loaded rounds (Remington 98 grain RN) and the six empties that he had shot. The first six factory loads went into roughly four inches at 25 yards, I was kind of disappointed.

The six that I loaded with 2.5 grains of Red Dot, WSP, and the Ideal 313445 sized to .313" with FWFL went into a group that was 1.2" wide by 1.6" tall.

Point of impact with the Remington load was about five inches low. POI with my load was at 7 oclock about two inches out.

Now to make a set of grips that fit my hand better; it came with a set of homemade "target" stocks that look a lot like a saw handle, but do increase the length of pull by about 1/2".

Thanks for all the advice guys.

Robert

[scrapcan]

all I can say is you are also now hooked on the little cartridge and the HE. darn it anyway one more buyer to compete with.

enjoy that handgun. Shoot it often. You better see if you can get yourself a 4 or 6 cavity mould, it makes like a lot easier.

[NoZombies]

A quick tip on the grip situation. J-frame grips will fit just fine if you make new blind holes for the alignment pins sticking out of either side of the butt.

At one point, I had a 6" version with wrap around J-frame target grips. They made the gun feel much better in my hand, and point better.

Good news on the 313445, glad it's working as well as it is!

Someplace around here, there's a "show off your .32's" thread, I think we need to revive it :)

[Mk42gunner]

all I can say is you are also now hooked on the little cartridge and the HE. darn it anyway one more buyer to compete with.

enjoy that handgun. Shoot it often. You better see if you can get yourself a 4 or 6 cavity mould, it makes like a lot easier.

Or at least a double cavity. The single cavity wasn't too bad when all I was using them in was a bolt action rifle.


A quick tip on the grip situation. J-frame grips will fit just fine if you make new blind holes for the alignment pins sticking out of either side of the butt.

At one point, I had a 6" version with wrap around J-frame target grips. They made the gun feel much better in my hand, and point better.

Good news on the 313445, glad it's working as well as it is!

Someplace around here, there's a "show off your .32's" thread, I think we need to revive it :)

Good to know about the J-frame target grips. I am going to visit a friend this weekend; he says there is an "old gunshop" with lots of old stuff near his house. Maybe I'll get lucky.

I was very suprised with the 313445-- I tried it in my Ruger SSM with light loads, and it more or less sprayed them. Since it does work for this gun, I guess I'll have to keep it now.

Robert

[scrapcan]

There was a 6 cavity group guy for an 98 gr SWC that I was lucky enough to get in on. That my friend is the way to make boolits for these little guns. It allows me to have enough on had to get to shoot as much as one can. they also make great cores for some of the other swaging projects.

[NoZombies]

Jeremy, I've broken down, and ordered a 4 cavity of the billisticast #665 from their group buy going on. It's more than I wanted to spend, but I guess I can't help myself when it comes to these things, and just try finding a used H&G #65!

On the other hand, the best shooting bullet I've had in virtually every 32 I've tried it in, has been the 31133. (Ideal factory HP version of the 3118) It's too bad it's a single cavity mold, because that 110 grain HP is the bee's knees for everything from punching paper to small game hunting.

[scrapcan]

Tony,

Yep I have been looking for that exact mould. I have yet to find one. I like the 3118 also. somedays it is just a bit heavy to go out and really enjoy an afternoon or evening with though.

I look forward to hearing your review of the ballisticast mould.

I know what you mean about the Hensley and H&G moulds. The two I came up with and passed on to those who had been looking for them were meant to help fund my purchase of the #665. Tough needle to find in that big stack, and when you do it is tough to be able to pay for.