Shot my new Custom 480 Ruger need help

[Aaron]

Check out the pics. 386gr Mihec 477-640, ACWW. recovered boolit fired into snow 100 yards out. Slumped alot and there is evidence of two rifling grooves. speed is 985 FPS out of the short barrel using WC297. I am thinking the alloy is way too soft. I am going to try water dropping next. Thoughts?

Thanks

Aaron

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r624/50Beowulf1/DSC03982.jpg
http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r624/50Beowulf1/DSC03983.jpg

[subsonic]

:kidding: Send me the gun. Problem solved!:kidding:

Very nice! I'd guess the same with the too soft alloy.

Is that a mid-size flat top frame? Who built it?

[tek4260]

Tell me about that revolver... Is that a mid frame flat top done by Huntington?

[Aaron]

Started as a Lipsey 44 Special Flat top. Jack Huntington did the work for me. Turnbull did the case colors.

Thanks

Aaron

[subsonic]

Woah... You said evidence of only 2 grooves? And I don't see rifling on the base band at all.

What are you sizing to? How big are the throats? It looks like tipping?

[Aaron]

It hit the ground on that side also. The other side clearly shows grooves on the base band. I thought it looked like tipping also, but I am not sure how much is impact related. It hit horizontal and skidded on the snow, not straight in. Sized 476, throats not slugged, but I thought Jack said they were 476 awhile ago in conversation on the phone.

Aaron

[Lefty SRH]

WOW, a shorty .480!? Who built it?

[Lefty SRH]

What is "tipping"?

[subsonic]

Do the boolits fall through the throats? Or require a push?

I this chambered .480 or .475? If it's .475, that woul make for a long unsupported jump.

How is the accuracy/leading?

[subsonic]

What is "tipping"?

Just what it sounds like. Boolit goes down the barrel tipped.

[Aaron]

Only chronograph some WC297 and 10B101 loads today, no targets yet. Have not taken it apart to check leading yet. I will check to see how tight they fit the throats tonight.

Thanks

[Lefty SRH]

Just what it sounds like. Boolit goes down the barrel tipped.

I wouldn't have guessed thats what "tipping" sounded like. Thats why I asked!

[Aaron]

No worries, it's all good. Looks like it might be slumping and tipped when it hits the rifling. I shot some more in the snow, but will have to wait for more melting to find them.

Aaron

[tek4260]

Just going on what I have read here in the past, the rifling marks doubling like that means the boolit is a bit soft and "twisting as it enters the rifling" The front starts to spin while the rear of the boolit, still held by the throat, doesn't start to spin. I believe water dropping will help. I have recovered some 45 boolits that the rifling marks looked like that, and water dropping cured it. Can't believe the front grease groove went away completely. Of course 1K fps from that barrel length is a stout load.

[Aaron]

No leading to speak of. Boolit sized. 476 can be pushed through the throat with some effort, so it is not undersized. Thinking harder is the way to go.

Aaron

[44man]

That boolit is way too soft! If water dropping does not help try oven hardening or make the alloy harder.
Does your WW metal have stick on weights in it?
This happens so much and hardly anyone knows because they never recover any boolits.
Usually this is what causes severe leading and maybe having one GG left saved you from it. The grease from your top groove went out the gap.
Rifling marks at the base band must never be larger then the rifling but the skid and slump has ruined the boolit anyway.
It is why I don't understand why anyone buys a mold for a specific boolit, even designing one to have a mold made when lead wire will be the same after shooting it. Imagine those that say they shoot pure lead at 1500 fps! :drinks: OOPS, forgot, need 1 to 20 tin alloy! :bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:
Aaron, you did exactly right by studying a boolit.
Anyway I use water dropped, PB WW boolits in the .475 at over 1320 fps with no slump but I do have a little skid on the front bands. They are 22 bhn and if I got to a 24 BHN or harder, accuracy increases.

[Charlie, AKA The Deacon]

That really looks Sweet!!!

[Aaron]

The revolver is a joy to handle and is intended to be one of my Packin' Pistols. I wanted a smaller frame than my 500 JRH with as much potential horsepower as possible. It shoots a little high, so I am going to speed it up to lower POI. I am hoping 1050-1100fps will do it.


44man I was hoping you would chime in. I am hoping simple water dropping will solve this. There are no stick on ww in the mix.

Btw- the little brother to this revolver should be done soon. A 40S&W on an Old Model single-Six.

Thanks All

Aaron

[Frank]

Aaron:

There are no stick on ww in the mix.
You should add pure lead to your WW's. WW's straight are too brittle of an alloy.

[dougader]

Is there any way we can get more pictures of this revolver? It's a beaut!

Did you start with the 44 Special flat top Bisley, or add a Bisley frame as part of the conversion?

Can you load all the way up to SAAMI max on this medium frame 480?

[stubshaft]

Boolit is way too soft and does not fill the chamber, that is probably what is causing you tipping.

[44man]

Elmer used a lot of hard lead and is what guys miss. He only used softer when the guns could handle it.
As velocity, pressures and boolit weights went up, things change. We need to keep up.
I LOVE soft lead but my guns don't. Revolvers are touchy.
If you notice, nobody shows soft boolit groups or pictures of deformed boolits recovered without impact damage.
Shoot supreme groups with jacketed and the try the same with dead soft lead and you will fail.
Forget the expansion to obturate junk. It also fails.

[Aaron]

Sure I will put up some more pics tomorrow. Had a couple holsters made for it over the weekend for it as well. It started as a 44 special bisley. Its little brother will be done soon. It is an Old Model 22 single six coverted to 40S&W. Same short octogon barrel and case colors. 38/40 ballistics on a small frame. Yes it will do SAAMI max for the 480.

Thanks

Aaron

[subsonic]

I have this same mold. I don't like the tiny double crimp groove at an extreme angle, or the way that the double crimp groove weakens the already minimal front driving band.

I might get a chance to shoot a few later this week. No way to catch them at the gun club though.

[Lloyd Smale]

I agree with 44 man, your alloy is to soft. Personaly for my big bores i cast mostly out of 5050 ww/lineotype. Contray to what some preach you dont want a a bullet bumping up like that in a good gun with proper tolarances. Like 44man said all your doing is turning a good bullet into a blob of lead. If you dont have lineotype water drop your ww bullets. Frank i hate to pick an arguement but what makes you think a ww bullet is to brittle? Weve done extensive pentration testing into some pretty tough medias and at handgun velocitys weve yet to see a bullet even cast from straight linotype fracture. Added to that even at rifle velocitys the bigger bore bullets tend to fracture less then smaller bored bullets. the only handgun bullets ive ever seen fracture were at the linebaugh seminar and they were swc 45 colt bullets cast out of water dropped ww. Those bullets were losing there nose right at the first driving band. They were comercial cast bullets from a company that had a rep there. He claimed they waterdropped everything because it was cheaper to water drop ww then to buy a harder alloy and the bullets held up better in shipping without getting dings on them. By the way Aaron that is one slick little handgun. My days of customs has probably past do to being on a fixed income now but if i could come up with a couple grand id sure love a twin to that gun. It would be about an ideal handgun in my book. Light packable and still packs a hell of a punch. Can you run full pressure loads in it?

[Aaron]

Lloyd, Thanks for the comments. I do have 800-1000 pounds of Lino, but I am hoarding that and am going to try water dropped WWs first. I also have 2-3 tons of isotope lead I can water drop to try as well. Yes, the little gun will do full-pressure loads.

BTW- Do you know Tedd Adamovich?

Thanks

Aaron

[Lloyd Smale]

names familar. I must have met him at one time. Im terrible with rememberig names though.

[ddixie884]

I really like that package............

[2 dogs]

Is that a Pac Nor barrel or Douglas or what?

[Aaron]

2 Dogs,

I am not sure what barrel Jack Huntington put on it. I will try to find out.

Aaron

[dougader]

Hi Aaron! How's it going with this sweaome 480? Do you have the time to post more pics? Please, please, please.....

[Aaron]

Dougrader

Have only done some plinking and chrongaph work. Messed with some 10B101 loads that I posted in tbe powder section. I did some more pics, but posted them on a different thread in this section. I will try to find it and bring it to the top. Keep your eye out for it. I am using my phone right now and may have to do it tomorrow on the computer.

Tbanks

Aaron

[Aaron]

Dougrader

Found the thread and brought it to the top. It is titled Promised pics of short 480 Ruger.

Thanks

Aaron

[Lefty SRH]

Did you ever solve the issues with this gun?

[Aaron]

I have some water drop wheel weights alloy to try. Now that the snow is gone though I do not have any good way of capturing them without damage.

Aaron

[paul h]

Water dropped ww's ought to do the trick. As I've posted on other threads, 460 gr WFN gc @ 1100 fps (guessing near 45 kpsi load) cast from ww and water dropped out of a 480 through 38" wet newsprint on left, and 2+" bone, 10+" on right.

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/evefiles/photo_albums/6/0/5/605102271/790102446_E694F7AB8CF06937E17554D03A00F87B.jpg

Then again I've shot air cooled ww from the 480, 400gr @ 1200 fps and they seemed to work ok but I didn't recover any to inspect them.

[Aaron]

Paul

I agree, I think the water dropped WWs will do the trick. It is shooting high with my heavy boolits. Jack asked me to send it back so he can do a different front blade, which I will do shortly.

Thanks

Aaron

[tek4260]

Paul

I agree, I think the water dropped WWs will do the trick. It is shooting high with my heavy boolits. Jack asked me to send it back so he can do a different front blade, which I will do shortly.

Thanks

Aaron


That is the same problem I had with my 480 Vaquero. I just hate to send the whole revolver back for a taller sight blade. When I finally get around to it, I will probably have it cut to 4 5/8 or 4 maybe. Jack said that is what he wanted to do to it anyway.

[Aaron]

Tek

Me too. I am trying to think of something else to have him do and send a donor gun and this at the same time. Problem is, he already has five other projects going for me and I can't think of anything else, except possibly a color cased, octogon barreled 1894 Marlin in 480 to go with the short gun.

Aaron

[tek4260]

How are you going to mail it? Dealer or through UPS/FedEx?

[Aaron]

I will use UPS to Jack and he can send it straight back to you.

[44man]

Water dropped ww's ought to do the trick. As I've posted on other threads, 460 gr WFN gc @ 1100 fps (guessing near 45 kpsi load) cast from ww and water dropped out of a 480 through 38" wet newsprint on left, and 2+" bone, 10+" on right.

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/evefiles/photo_albums/6/0/5/605102271/790102446_E694F7AB8CF06937E17554D03A00F87B.jpg

Then again I've shot air cooled ww from the 480, 400gr @ 1200 fps and they seemed to work ok but I didn't recover any to inspect them.
That is not bad. Heavy boolits tend to have a wider rifling mark at the start from skid. As long as skid ends at the base you are OK.
Harder lead will reduce the skid.

[Whitworth]

Is that a Pac Nor barrel or Douglas or what?

PacNor.

[Michael J. Spangler]

damn that gun is sexy!