PID Controller Gone Bad

[kitsap]

I purchased a SYL-2352 PID controller from Auber Instruments 11/29/2010 and assembled a SSR temperature controller for a lead casting pot. It worked fine for several months. Recently it has failed. I have gone through the diagnostic tests at the bottom of page 8 in the manual and all indications are the PID controller itself is defective. I have built several since and this is the first one to have failed.

When first powered on the temperature reading is at ambient in degrees F. Within a few seconds the temperature reading starts to decline and bottoms out at -228 degrees and the bottom display flashes orAL.

I have two different thermocouples, type K and the controller reacts the same with either thermocouple. Per the manual section 8 trouble shooting; I did verify parameter setting Sn is set to 0 then disconnected the thermocouple from terminals 4 and 5 and connected in a short piece of copper wire. When powered on the controller goes through the same sequence.

The warranty on the PID controller is 90 days. Anyone else have this situation?

DougF

[Sonnypie]

Hmmmm....
I was just casting with my standard Lee Pro IV 20 the other day.
Do you still have the original control?
Might want to go back to what still works for a lot of folks.
It'll get you back to casting again.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

Just a suggestion, make sure you have a surge protector on the line feeding the controller.
When I had my engine shop, the oven we used to clean iron had a PID controller, after 3 of them, we discovered power surges wiping them out.

[kitsap]

Guys,

Thanks for the suggestions. The original Lyman bottom pour controller is intact (just jumpered around) and can easily be put back in the circuit. However I now dip out of the top and have become 100 % addicted to how the PID controls the lead temperature.

I have a cheap older surge protector in the circuit now. May have to invest in something newer and of higher quality.

This is the first one I have been around that went bad. Any other reports?

DougF

[bosterr]

When I was building mine, I had the 25A SSR go bad, it caused the house fuse to blow. Replaced it with a 40A. Next, the SYL2352 read screwy temps. Called Auberins customer service, and talked to a fella named Suyi. Very, very smart. He said the PID was bad and sent me a new one if I promised to return the old one ASAP. It turned out one of the fine wires on the thermocouple crimped to the spade connector had broken. Crimped on a new spade connector, and all is well. Works like a charm. My advise is to call Auberins customer service and ask for Suyi. I'll bet he can help you.

[Frozone]

When first powered on the temperature reading is at ambient in degrees F. Within a few seconds the temperature reading starts to decline and bottoms out at -228 degrees and the bottom display flashes orAL.

Have you changed thermocouples recently???

That is about the same thing that happens if you get the TC wires reversed.

[kitsap]

Have you changed thermocouples recently???

That is about the same thing that happens if you get the TC wires reversed.

No change in thermocouples. Once I took the thermocouple clear out of the circuit and used a short piece of copper wire across terminals 4 and 5 there was no polarity.

DougF

[shaune509]

If I read you write the #4 and 5 terminals are the TC input to the PID. Shorting these with copper wire is not going to give any input to the PID. The TC generates a micro DC voltage that the PID reads. Might be bad TC wire/connections or the PID is got a bad componate that is failing when it warms up ie diode, IC, resister etc.
Shaune509

[kitsap]

Guys,

The original question was whether or not anyone else has had a PID controller go bad. This one lasted a little over a year. I am reasonably certain the one in question is bad and it is going to be replaced shortly. I have access to another system that I have used to swap out parts and that points to a bad controller. The trouble shooting section in the manual points to a bad controller.

8. Error Message and trouble shooting
8.1 Display orAL
This is an input error message. The possible reasons are: the sensor is not
connected correctly; the input setting is wrong type; or the sensor is defective.
In this case, the instrument terminates its control function automatically, and
the output value is fixed according to the parameter OUTL. If this happens
when using thermocouple sensor, you can short terminal 4 and 5 with a copper
wire. If the display shows ambient temperature, the thermocouple is defective.
If it still displays orAL, check the input setting, Sn, to make sure it is set to the
right thermocouple type. If the Sn setting is correct, the controller is defective.

When I contacted Auber, Suyi Liu indicated he thought the controller was bad possibly something wrong with the memory chip.

Thanks,

DougF

[kitsap]

The replacement controller arrived and has been installed. The thermocouple, all wiring, and etc. were fine. The unit is back in operation working fine.

Now for the bad controller. If you ever wondered what was inside:

http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n546/kitsap1/Message%20Board%20Photos/Auber-1L.jpg

http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n546/kitsap1/Message%20Board%20Photos/Auber-2L.jpg

http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n546/kitsap1/Message%20Board%20Photos/Auber-3L.jpg

http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n546/kitsap1/Message%20Board%20Photos/Auber-4L.jpg

http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n546/kitsap1/Message%20Board%20Photos/Auber-5L.jpg


DougF

[popper]

All the settings you make (even changing temp setting) are in a memory chip with a limited number of write cycles.

[AR-15 Cowboy]

Was this unit close to the pot? Do any of the parts look overheated? Its hard to tell from the pictures.

[kitsap]

Was this unit close to the pot? Do any of the parts look overheated? Its hard to tell from the pictures.

That is the primary reason I took it apart. No internal parts show any visual sign of heat damage. The controller was installed in the large Auber project box and it worked flawlessly for over a year. When in use it was located about 3/4 of the length of the thermocouple lead away from the lead pot. Maybe 3 to 4 feet.

I do note the wave soldering on the boards does not appear as the same quality as commercial electronic products.

DougF

[AR-15 Cowboy]

The soldering does look poorly done, but I couldn't tell if it was the picture or not. Any idea who manufactured it?

[bosterr]

When I was having trouble with mine showing the error code, Suyi in customer service told me about 2 spots that could have poor soldering and told me to try to re-solder. I said no way, what if I ruined it altogether? In my case, I really believe was a broken wire in the thermocouple.

[The10mmKid]

Doug,
Since you have it this far apart, you might these two things.

Pull the processor sub-board and reseat it.

You may need to unsolder the cross-board stiffener and pull the power supply board away from the display board to make room.

I agree with the poor looking solder job. Calling it wave soldering is being generous. :)

Later,
'da Kid

[kitsap]

Doug,
Since you have it this far apart, you might these two things.

Pull the processor sub-board and reseat it.

You may need to unsolder the cross-board stiffener and pull the power supply board away from the display board to make room.

I agree with the poor looking solder job. Calling it wave soldering is being generous. :)

Later,
'da Kid

Kid,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I was careful when I pulled the board assembly out the the case to look for chunks or bits of solder. None were found. I am sure they did not solder the original by hand! My original intent was to try to do something with this controller and keep it for a spare. I don't have any problems with un-soldering the cross-board stiffener and etc. you suggested. May let it sit for a while as I have a couple of other projects on the bench at the moment. I still have in the back of my mind the horror stories abut Chinese capacitors.

DougF