I'm through trying to cast 9mm boolits!

[sig2009]

Spent close to 5 hours yesterday cleaning the lead out of by barrel after 25 rounds. And the commercial cast sized to 356.5 were equally as bad! Lee molds suck. Lyman molds suck![smilie=b:

[mktacop]

If you are giving up....let me know what you have to sell :bigsmyl2:

Seriously, what issues do you have that are causing that much leading? What alloy, what velocity, slugged your barrel? I'm sure an answer to the problem can be found. :grin:

[462]

I don't own a 9 mm, but after facing many casting and shooting impediments and frustrations, my advise would be to take a deep breath and relax.

Once you have caught up with yourself, start from the very beginning -- always go back to the basics -- and analyze each and every step of the entire process.

It's far to premature to blame the moulds, and even if you discover that they are not what they should be, there is always a way to remedy them.

Hang in there.

I'm sure that, given all the pertinent information, the members will be able to solve the problem(s).

[RayinNH]

What alloy, air cooled or water dropped, what size are they after sizing? Measure the boolits not what is marked on the die...Ray

[williamwaco]

I have been loading for over 5 decades. 9mm for four decades.

The only problem I have ever had with the 9mm is that they are so small, I drop them on the floor and have to stop and pick them up.

In my experience, they are no harder to load than any other handgun. Most problems are caused by "over thinking" and trying to solve problems before they occur.

Trade those hard cast commercial bullets to someone you don't like.
They are too hard and too small. They are DESTINED to lead.

1 Get some good dies. Don't mix them. Use the sizer, expander, and seater from the same set.
2 Cast some good soft bullets BNH 15 or less. ( I use the Lee 124 gr Truncated Cone BNH 12-14 )
3 Size them to .357.
4 Lube them with LLA or Rooster Jacket or one of the highly recommended home made lubes recommended by members here.
5 Select a mid-range powder charge. About half way between starting and max.
6 Experiment with three or four dummy cartridges to find an over all length that will fit the magazine and feed reliably when the action is worked by hand.

Start with a clean barrel.
Shoot 5, then check for lead.
Don't wait until it looks like a sewer pipe before you start cleaning it.

For exhaustive detalis of this process with a cartridge that is notoriously hard to reload, see:

http://www.reloadingtips.com/pages/loading-40-sw.htm

The cartridge is different but every step of the process is exactly the same.

Remember:

It is not hard to load good pistol ammo.
But
It is easy to load bad pistol ammo.

[454PB]

William has the possible causes of leading covered, I want to know why it took 5 hours to remove it from your barrel.

Slugging a barrel will remove 95% of leading, then a bronze brush soaked in Hoppes will remove the rest.

If you find the leading while you're still in a shooting area, keep some very lightly loaded jacketed rounds available. They work just like slugging and will push the bulk of the leading out. You can then use a bronze brush and solvent to finish up.

[SlowSmokeN]

I am learning 9mm right now and I am so close I can taste it. If you give the proper info your mess could be fixed in no time.

[delt167502]

I had the same problem,with a glock .I tried every thing I could think of .Then a friend was at the range with me,I made the comment Iwas about to give up shooting cast. He said why don't you try using .357 dia. bullets .It worked no lead at all .I have been using ww to cast with. something that has worked to remove leading is a sml. amount of copper choreboy wraped around a brush. Make sure it is copper as steel will damage your bbl.

[Sonnypie]

If at first you don't succeed, parachuting may not be for you.

You could always go back to jacketed bullets.

[Cherokee]

sig - william gave good advice. The 9mm was not that hard for me. I use the Lee 356120TC conventional lube and the Lyman 356402. Both give me very good results with only trace leading that cleans up with normal barrel cleaning effort - brush & patch. I have fired 1000 rounds without cleaning and no accuracy problem and easy cleanup. Take a breath and try again.

[runfiverun]

look aroun some i'll bet you find 3-4 hundred posts on what didn't work and at least 3-4 thousand things to try.
of those 3-4 thousand there are probably 5-6 things [steps] in common that insures success.
and one thing all the failures have in common.
the boolits are too small.
either being cast that way or they are being made that way in the loading process.

[waksupi]

quick tip if you do have lead, put the rod in a drill so the brush spins very fast and it will clean up in a couple of minutes.



Fast way to booger up a barrel. Use the Chore Boy trick, and get it out without hurting the barrel.

[shootinxd]

Sig,don't give up just yet.Many(including Myself)have had to overcome the dreaded LEADING issue.I worked for almost 3yrs off/on for my 40cal.It can be done, I assure you of this.Youre in the right place to find the answers you seek.Take it 1 step at a time.YOU CAN DO IT,if I can.

[DukeInFlorida]

1) DO NOT SPIN a bronze brush in a rifled barrel
2) There are three factors to success with cast boolits
A) Diameter
B) Hardness
C) Lube Selection
If any of those are wrong, you will get leading. If two or more are wrong you will get a LOT of leading. My guess is that you had at least two of those wrong.
3) For my 9mm bullets, I use a 50-50 alloy (50% wheel weights, and 50% pure lead. Soft enough to properly seal the bore when the pressure hits the back of the bullet. I cast those and air cool them. Water dropping would make them too hard, my opinion.
4) I size mine to .357. Of all of the sizing I have tried, that one work the best on all of my guns.
5) I use a good semi-hard lube. Previous tests with tumble lubing 9mm bullets didn't go well. I ditched the tumble lube style molds in favor of grease groove style molds, and use my own modified version of Felix's lube (I add some synthetic stuff to it). Commercially, White Label's Carnauba Red would be my recommendation for you.
6) Relax. It's supposed to be an enjoyable hobby.

[ku4hx]

Spent close to 5 hours yesterday cleaning the lead out of by barrel after 25 rounds. And the commercial cast sized to 356.5 were equally as bad! Lee molds suck. Lyman molds suck![smilie=b:

I've cast and loaded thousand of 9mm since the mid '70s and had only very minor problems that were fairly easy to fix. But I'll have to say, I've had sever problems in the past with other things that I couldn't fix no matter what I did. Things that other people considered no-brainers.

So I understand your frustration and can certainly commiserate with you.

[milprileb]

Its not the molds but it probably is some of what others have advised.. maybe all of it.

9mm is the one caliber that I have had a long trek with. Slug the bore and then you will know
what sizer die to get. I had to go to .358 for my cast bullets for sizing.

You will have to work alloy hardness issues and find the alloy that works in your pistol. You need to use a high quality lube on your bullets (chase cheaper and other lubes later after you sort out your difficulties).

The rewards for a tenacious approach are there but you got to suffer through and not give up.

Methodically go through all the suggestions and eliminate all causes of leading.

I have had lube failed me with certain loads and gotten lead in barrel. Switched lube and all was fine.

Your barrel wants a specific recipe for 9mm: lube, alloy, sizing, powder, powder charge, seating depth: you gotta find the combination that works.

I find one or more of those can spoil things for my pistol. 9mm is very unforgiving. Just about any combination of those factors will work in 45acp.

[Boolseye]

Yeah, it can be frustrating (BTW, Shooter's Choice is 100x more powerful than Hoppe's for serious leading), but the 9mm is doable. Everything we need to know is either on this forum or within us. I size some of my 9mm to .356 and shoot the dreaded TL356-124TC (unsized), both of which are practically verboten on this forum–but I love it here and have learned a million things from all of the great members. Best of luck to you.

[EMC45]

I use the 120gr. Lee TC mold exclusively. I size to .358 for my BHP. I shot plenty of cast and jacketed through my Beretta M92 and got horrendus leading and very poor accuracy. I started casting and sizing accordingly and now I get zero leading and great accuracy in my BHP. I use ACWW BTW.

[jonk]

quick tip if you do have lead, put the rod in a drill so the brush spins very fast and it will clean up in a couple of minutes.

I am learning 9mm right now and I am so close I can taste it. If you give the proper info your mess could be fixed in no time.

What horrible advice. Good advice for someone who wants to really wear down their rifling I suppose, lapping the sides of it so it no longer has a nice crisp edge... and all feathered on one side. No thanks.

Now on to the issue. The 9mm is a fairly fast round for plain base bullets, and fairly high pressure. I was having the same issues you were, and switched my powder charge. By experimenting, I found that 3.2 gr of bullseye with a 124 gr RN will JUST cycle the action on all of my 9mms. This is well under the max load and well under most start loads. However, the lower pressure and velocity eliminated my leading, and shoots pretty well to boot.

Of course make sure your bullet is appropriately sized, well lubed, etc. After that start with 2 gr of bullseye and work up until you get a load that just cycles the gun.

I did the same with a 158 gr semi wadcutter in the 9mm. 2.5 gr of bullseye just cycles the action with this huge pill, and it shoots great in terms of accuracy; in fact it's mostly all I shoot out of my 9s these days.

[pdawg_shooter]

I had to fix 2 flats on my pickup last week. Guess I will just stop driving!

[geargnasher]

If it doesn't fit, it leaks gas pressure. If it leaks, it leads. Couple these facts with a little common sense to isolate and repair the failure point(s).

Gear

[reloader28]

Get a Pat Marlin 35 PB check maker. It makes 9mm so easy its pathetic.

No more searching for the perfect lead free load. As long as your sizing bigger than the bore, you wont have any more leaded barrels.:Fire:

[BulletFactory]

lyman molds do suck. Get something in brass from accurate.

I have been working on the .40 for almost 2 years, with 2 different guns. Finally sold one of them. Don't give up. Im about to go to the range and try another batch. I think all I had to do, was let them cure for a few days, we will see.

Dont give up. You know when life gets you so mad that you just want to shoot something? Well, in this hobby, you actually get to shoot something! So, go shoot something, and blow off some steam.

[Tazman1602]

Fast way to booger up a barrel. Use the Chore Boy trick, and get it out without hurting the barrel.

What Waksupi said. Chore boy strands around a bronze brush and in about ten stroke that barrel is clean, period. It works VERY well then you can keep experimenting until you get it right...

Art

[popper]

Get the size, lube and powder right. Hard CBs (like 18 BHN) do not cause leading. Use kerosine/ATF/kroil oil for cleaning with the copper chore-boy- yea it doesn't have the smell we all love, but it works great. J-B WON'T clean it out!

[BulletFactory]

Get some chore boy, pure copper. Wrap a brush in the stuff, and scrub the bore. It should be thick enough to give a good resistance while scrubbing. Then, get a different brush, and wrap that in some 000 steel wool. Use a copper solvent, not hoppes, it doesn't work, just smells good. A solvent that works will smell like ammonia, I like Barnes. Soak the steel wool brush in the solvent and go to town. In 3 to 5 minutes total, your bore will be clean. Then soap and hot water to rinse the brush and the bore. Run a couple oiled patches through till you stop seeing black. Leave a (thin) layer of oil in the bore. Load and shoot.

[Boolseye]

Alright, I have a couple more points.
One, this is a round where the Lyman M dies or multi-charger/expander plugs really shine. They create a nice even fit for your cast bullet and don't shave lead. They help prevent case-swaging.

second, I find that charges under the recommended minimum are often all I need for my CBs. Example: The minimum recommended charge for AA #7 under a 125 grain lead bullet is 7.5 or thereabouts. I use 6.8 under a 124 grain CB and get 1000 fps, good accuracy and no leading.

[Colorado4wheel]

Lots of people told me what I needed to do to make 9mm work. Things like "you don't need to water drop them' Stuff like that. In the end what worked for me is a Mold that cast to .358". A sizer that sizes to .357" and Water Dropping them. Probably could use a slower powder and not water drop them. But I like my powder and I don't mind water dropping them. I have used Lee and Lyman as well. I just got a Accurate Mold. Much better sizing.

[Floydster]

I use a Titanuim Nitrate Cobalt drill bit coated with valve grinding compound in my drill press, works very good for removing lead deposits:)

[Ola]

Here is the one that works for me:

-Lee 124 TC TL
-ww
-drop in water
-little bit of LLA or any other lube. Doesn't seem to matter at all. Even graphite powder will work.
-calibrate to .356, .357 or don't calibrate. Does NOT seem to matter leading wise. The accuracy is best when .357..
-expand the case mouth enough!
-if you like heavy crimp, do NOT crimp with the bullet seater die. Crimp separately!
-use pretty much any powder you like. Fast or slow, mild or full house load. I've tried VV N320, N330, N340, 3N37 ja N32C. And HS-7, AA No5. No leading, average to good accuracy.


Shot thousands of these in CZ and several hundreds in Glock, 1911 etc. In the beginning had serious leading problem so had to try out all kind of things.

[Sonnypie]

I had to fix 2 flats on my pickup last week. Guess I will just stop driving!

Or you could go back to jacketed tires....:bigsmyl2:

Spinning...a...brush...in...a...rifled...barrel... :veryconfu:veryconfu
That has to be one of the worst suggestions I have EVER heard.

[richhodg66]

I haven't loaded 9mm in a while, but when I did, it was a long time ago in an Egyptian copy of the Beretta Model 1951 (Helwan???). That gun handled all the bullets I tried in it pretty well, and accuracy was decent for a service grade pistol. The main mold I used is the Lyman 121 grain truncated cone, I can't remember the #, cast fairly hard and sized to .357 because that was the sizer die I had at the time. The powders I used were Unique and Bullseye, again, because it was what I had.

I never could figure out why the 9mm had such a bad rep with cast bullets, it loaded and shot fine just as easily as anything else in my experience and I didn't have to mess with it much to get it to do it. I shot it a lot the first couple of years I had it and then moved on to other things. Maybe I just lucked out.

[Ola]

I never could figure out why the 9mm had such a bad rep with cast bullets, it loaded and shot fine just as easily as anything else in my experience .. My thoughts exactly. Is there something special in the 9 mm ?

[454PB]

[QUOTE][My thoughts exactly. Is there something special in the 9 mm ?/QUOTE]

A couple of things come to mind........shallow rifling......and high pressures.

[Ola]

Shallow rifling?

I started my cast bullet experiments with a CZ barrel that was very worn out. I had already noticed the accuracy fading away with jacketed bullets. I was going to buy a new barrel, BUT then I started using oversize cast with right loading procedure. The accuracy came back! So I decided to stick with that and have not shot jacketed since in that 9 mm. And I'm still using the same barrel..

High pressure?

Just got to ask: how come it's is not especilly difficult to use cast boolits in rifles? Or in revolvers with pressures as high as in rifles (like f.e. .460 S&W Mag)?

[gvbsat]

I dont know if this is going to help you, but... It took me about 200 rounds to find a load that works in my factory G19. I did not change the barrel, it has the factory glock poly barrel and I can shoot my cast boolits alllll day long, and I have zero leading. It took some time though, and is completely worth it. I find myself shooting just about every weekend now and I dont even bother looking for deals on pulled FMJ's or plated anymore, because I love my cast too much, and they are dang accurate. Hang in there, try all the advice mentioned, and if you done all of the above, play around with other powders.
The load that works wonders for me is cast WW using the lee 6 gang tumble mold and using the lee alox, but I have to make sure the grooves are indeed filled. Sometimes that take tumbling them in the alox three times to completely fill the grooves up, and letting them sit overnight to dry. With 4g. of Universal and a standard primer, fed/CCI, man what a sweet extremely accurate load with no leading.
I went though about 4 different powders and about 3 different boolit BHN hardness. Very rewarding though once you find that perfect match for your gun

[Harter66]

I know this is a stupid question . Is the bbl clean and copper free? Lemme tell ya they will lead up like nobodies business if they aren't . I've been down that road,5 min on the bench hrs cleaning . Before I had all the copper out, 1 trip stands out ,I actually had lead strings sticking out of the muzzle after just 2 mags.

I have the 124-356 TL TC also which drops at .360 . I shoot them as cast from 75-25 ww/1-20 and water drop. Lube w/Darrs recipe tweeked to suit me. The bore looks terrible w/both Red dot and Unique but is clean w/just a couple of patches w/a full scrub down every 5-6th range trip,5-600rd.

[MtGun44]

Check out:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=121607

Bill

[snuffy]

quick tip if you do have lead, put the rod in a drill so the brush spins very fast and it will clean up in a couple of minutes.
You're kidding,,,,----right? It's not April first so I guess not.:-P
I am learning 9mm right now and I am so close I can taste it. If you give the proper info your mess could be fixed in no time.

Looks like you have somethings to learn about cleaning guns!

It must have bee SlowSmokeN that "fixed" the barrel on that pawnshop 7mm mag I saw once. He went one step further, put steel wool on that bronze brush, then spun it in the barrel.:groner::shock: Barrel bore was badly scratched, shot 6" groups @ 100 yds. A fire lapping got it down to 2".

I'm trying some things to get a CZ-75B to shoot 9mm lead boolits. This has been a good thread with some things I haven't tried yet.

[miestro_jerry]

I use a Lewis Lead Remover/cleaner when I have really bad lead build up. In my rifles I use a jacketed round to clear the barrel. I hear their are problems with each methods, but I never had them.

Jerry

[Shiloh]

My guess is that your boolits are too small.

SHiloh

[sig2009]

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions. I have been busy and havn't had a chance to answer any of your questions. It took me 5 hours to get the lead out of the barrel because I had to let it soak for about 3 hours in the lead remover. Then ran a brush with Chore Boy down about 50 times. Still could not remove the lead. Had to let it soak for another couple hours. Again Chore Boy no good. Then when all else failed I had to attach the brush to the drill and spun it a few hundred times and managed to get it clean.

I have already had 2 defective Lee 6 cavity dies sent back and replaced because of pitting in the cavities. It looks like I got another defective one in 9mm the Lee 356-120 TC. I spent a couple hours tonight casting again and this 9mm mold also looks to be defective. It casts bullets that range anywhere from .354-.356. I cast about 200 and none of them cast larger than .356. Got the lead nice and hot up to about 825 degrees while warming the mold on the hotplate. Bullets came out perfect but undersized. Also it looks like the mold is defective. I am going to send this one back to Lee to be replaced. Don't they have any type of quality control where they can check to see that the molds are undersized before they ship them out? It looks like I may have to buy the Lee 358-125 38 spcl for the 9mm. That way if it is supposed to cast .358 and only casts .357 I should be ok.

Also I am using White Lube BAC which could also be a problem with the leading.

[sig2009]

quick tip if you do have lead, put the rod in a drill so the brush spins very fast and it will clean up in a couple of minutes.

I am learning 9mm right now and I am so close I can taste it. If you give the proper info your mess could be fixed in no time.

Thanks for the suggestion. That was the only way I could get the lead out. I let it spin in the barrel for about a minute. Chore Boy didn't work.

[BAGTIC]

Anyone else notice how many posters solved their problem by going to a larger bullet.?

My experience has been that it is very seldom that a bullet is too large as long as it still chambers while many bullets are too small.

[snuffy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSmokeN View Post
quick tip if you do have lead, put the rod in a drill so the brush spins very fast and it will clean up in a couple of minutes.

I am learning 9mm right now and I am so close I can taste it. If you give the proper info your mess could be fixed in no time.


Thanks for the suggestion. That was the only way I could get the lead out. I let it spin in the barrel for about a minute. Chore Boy didn't work.

Amazing to see somebody give an absolutely terrible idea, then see a newbie actually use it!

RUNNING/SPINNING A BRUSH IN A DRILL WILL DESTROY THE RIFLING! You're running an abrasive ACROSS the lands of the rifling. THE ONLY BARREL THAT CAN HAVE A BRUSH SPUN IN IT IS A SHOTGUN!

[pdawg_shooter]

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions. I have been busy and havn't had a chance to answer any of your questions. It took me 5 hours to get the lead out of the barrel because I had to let it soak for about 3 hours in the lead remover. Then ran a brush with Chore Boy down about 50 times. Still could not remove the lead. Had to let it soak for another couple hours. Again Chore Boy no good. Then when all else failed I had to attach the brush to the drill and spun it a few hundred times and managed to get it clean.

I have already had 2 defective Lee 6 cavity dies sent back and replaced because of pitting in the cavities. It looks like I got another defective one in 9mm the Lee 356-120 TC. I spent a couple hours tonight casting again and this 9mm mold also looks to be defective. It casts bullets that range anywhere from .354-.356. I cast about 200 and none of them cast larger than .356. Got the lead nice and hot up to about 825 degrees while warming the mold on the hotplate. Bullets came out perfect but undersized. Also it looks like the mold is defective. I am going to send this one back to Lee to be replaced. Don't they have any type of quality control where they can check to see that the molds are undersized before they ship them out? It looks like I may have to buy the Lee 358-125 38 spcl for the 9mm. That way if it is supposed to cast .358 and only casts .357 I should be ok.

Also I am using White Lube BAC which could also be a problem with the leading.

Glad it is your barrel not mine!

Didnt know Lee mad a 6 cavity die! Out of 20+ lee MOLDS, I have had to send a total of one back. They replaced it no questions asked. 825º is way to hot, could be why your bullets are undersized.

I use BAC on everything I cast, never had a problem with leading. Dont think it is a lube problem.

[sig2009]

Glad it is your barrel not mine!

Didnt know Lee mad a 6 cavity die! Out of 20+ lee MOLDS, I have had to send a total of one back. They replaced it no questions asked. 825º is way to hot, could be why your bullets are undersized.

I use BAC on everything I cast, never had a problem with leading. Dont think it is a lube problem.

Unfortunately at 700 degrees the bullets would not fully fill out but when I raised the temp they did so that is not true.

[sig2009]

Amazing to see somebody give an absolutely terrible idea, then see a newbie actually use it!

RUNNING/SPINNING A BRUSH IN A DRILL WILL DESTROY THE RIFLING! You're running an abrasive ACROSS the lands of the rifling. THE ONLY BARREL THAT CAN HAVE A BRUSH SPUN IN IT IS A SHOTGUN!

Rifling looks fine to me. No scratches or anything else.

[snuffy]

Sig, you have a lot to learn. How to listen to advice would be on top of the list. Sorry, there's just no nice way to say that.

825 DEG. is WAY too hot. You're cooking the tin out of your alloy, which results in too soft bullets that don't fill out very well. Your mold is too cold. Those huge blocks lee uses for all their 6 cavity molds really don't heat up well when casting those tiny 9mm boolits. Get the mold hotter by either turning th hot plate up, dipping the corner of the mold in the molten lead, or casting as fast as you can until the mold gets hot enough. You'll know its hot enough when the boolits start getting frosty.

Now, turn the heat down to no more that 725 DEG. We still don't know what alloy you're using. If it's wheelweights, then you might need to add a bit of tin. Easiest way to do that is lead free solder. Or if you have some bar solder that's marked as to it's tin percentage. 50-50% is common. Figure out what will give you about 1.5 to 2% tin in your alloy. WW has about ½ to 1% tin in them already.

Now, with a hot mold and 725 DEG. alloy and about 2% tin, you should be getting bigger boolits. They won't be too hard if you air cool them. BUT if they're sized to your barrel, they should work. If you want/need them harder, you can water quench them, dropping them into cold water.

Now, slug your barrel. You're in the dark until you KNOW what the actual land diameter is. Once that's determined, you know what size the boolits need to be.

[sig2009]

Sig, you have a lot to learn. How to listen to advice would be on top of the list. Sorry, there's just no nice way to say that.

825 DEG. is WAY too hot. You're cooking the tin out of your alloy, which results in too soft bullets that don't fill out very well. Your mold is too cold. Those huge blocks lee uses for all their 6 cavity molds really don't heat up well when casting those tiny 9mm boolits. Get the mold hotter by either turning th hot plate up, dipping the corner of the mold in the molten lead, or casting as fast as you can until the mold gets hot enough. You'll know its hot enough when the boolits start getting frosty.

Now, turn the heat down to no more that 725 DEG. We still don't know what alloy you're using. If it's wheelweights, then you might need to add a bit of tin. Easiest way to do that is lead free solder. Or if you have some bar solder that's marked as to it's tin percentage. 50-50% is common. Figure out what will give you about 1.5 to 2% tin in your alloy. WW has about ½ to 1% tin in them already.

Now, with a hot mold and 725 DEG. alloy and about 2% tin, you should be getting bigger boolits. They won't be too hard if you air cool them. BUT if they're sized to your barrel, they should work. If you want/need them harder, you can water quench them, dropping them into cold water.

Now, slug your barrel. You're in the dark until you KNOW what the actual land diameter is. Once that's determined, you know what size the boolits need to be.

To answer a few of your questions. I am casting 50% range lead with 50% linotype. I followed your suggestions. Been casting for the past few hours. Results. Got the mold really hot on the hotplate till it was smoking so the bullets were frosted. Casting as you said about 725 degrees. The bullets actually cast smaller ranging from .353 to .356. So your suggestion did not work. Next step is to find a .358 9mm mold. The Lee 356-120 casts too small!

[sig2009]

Sig..Were you looking for advice on how to cure your 9mm leading problem or just whine about it?

If you are looking for advice, then listen to what others are trying to tell you.

If you just want to whine, then man up and get on with life.

I did follow a casting suggestion and it ended up with small cast bullets than before so before you start being confrontational read what I just posted! Unless you have something constructive to say I don't need that attitude!

[SlowSmokeN]

Ya my idea was very bad to use a drill. Don't do it. I did it out of my ignorance seeing someone else do it.

I found out yesterday and today just how bad that was for the barrel. If you can go back and erase that from your post it would greatly appreciated.

I would hate for someone to ruin their barrel thinking it was ok because of my stupidity. [smilie=b:

[white eagle]

sell it and buy a 45

[Char-Gar]

Sig... As much as it pains me to admit it, you are right and I am wrong. There was no reason in the world for me to say what I did. I take it back...king's X..and I apoligize

[fcvan]

Cast Boolits in a 9MM - the only way to go. The right powder, lube, sizing makes all the difference. I have shot the Lee 125 2R RN for decades with nary a problem. I have shot them through a S&W 639, S&W 459, Marlin Camp Carbine, Glock 17, and several Glocks with Lone Wolf 9MM barrels. I have used 5gr of Unique with Lee 50/50, Rooster Red, Javalena, Lyman Molybendum Disulfide, and even home made lube. 25+ years of tack driving fun. Boolits were sized at .358 which barely kissed the boolit.

I recently loaded some 9MM with the same boolit, home made lube, and Bullseye. I had never been so embarrassed to shoot these loads with friends watching. Both my buddy's new Glock and mine PATTERNED at 15 feet. I had never had this boolit keyhole, or any other boolit for that matter. I went back to my old standby loads and was right back to shooting cloverleaf groups.

Just goes to show you that after years of success things can still go very wrong. I will try these through the carbine, to see how the lube holds up in the 16" tube. If they still shoot goofy, I'll pull them and try a different charge on the Bullseye. If that works, cool. If not, it was an embarrassing learning experience.

BTW, the Lee 105 SWC and the 102 RN have always shot well through the 9MM. I've ordered the 120 TC mold and will try that soon. Frank

[sig2009]

Sig... As much as it pains me to admit it, you are right and I am wrong. There was no reason in the world for me to say what I did. I take it back...king's X..and I apoligize

Thanks. I'm just trying to get this casting right. I just had a conversation with a casting friend of mine and he believes that if the lee is a newer mold which it is it may never be able to cast that bullet larger than .356.

The other thing is I have an old Saeco 125gnrn mold that I also tried today with the same lead and to my suprise I was able to cast bullets that cast at .358/.359 so this leads me to believe that the Lee 356-120TC mold will only cast at .356 and no larger.

[sig2009]

Cast Boolits in a 9MM - the only way to go. The right powder, lube, sizing makes all the difference. I have shot the Lee 125 2R RN for decades with nary a problem. I have shot them through a S&W 639, S&W 459, Marlin Camp Carbine, Glock 17, and several Glocks with Lone Wolf 9MM barrels. I have used 5gr of Unique with Lee 50/50, Rooster Red, Javalena, Lyman Molybendum Disulfide, and even home made lube. 25+ years of tack driving fun. Boolits were sized at .358 which barely kissed the boolit.

I recently loaded some 9MM with the same boolit, home made lube, and Bullseye. I had never been so embarrassed to shoot these loads with friends watching. Both my buddy's new Glock and mine PATTERNED at 15 feet. I had never had this boolit keyhole, or any other boolit for that matter. I went back to my old standby loads and was right back to shooting cloverleaf groups.

Just goes to show you that after years of success things can still go very wrong. I will try these through the carbine, to see how the lube holds up in the 16" tube. If they still shoot goofy, I'll pull them and try a different charge on the Bullseye. If that works, cool. If not, it was an embarrassing learning experience.

BTW, the Lee 105 SWC and the 102 RN have always shot well through the 9MM. I've ordered the 120 TC mold and will try that soon. Frank

Frank. I am going downstairs to give that mold another try. If I can't get it to work then I am selling it.

[AndyC]

Maybe I've missed seeing it, but - what diameter does the bore slug at?

[sig2009]

Maybe I've missed seeing it, but - what diameter does the bore slug at?

I havn't slugged it yet. Still working on getting the Lee to cast larger than .356 because I know .356 is too small.

[MtGun44]

Alloy and temp will affect the size cast. My Lee 356-120 TC casts .358-.359 with straight
wheelwts.

Check out post #7: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=146424

Possible operator error. Possible undersized mold. Too soon to tell.

Bill

[sig2009]

No luck with 50/50 range lead and linotype. Beautiful and nice and shiny. Still don't drop larger than .356. Looks like I might have to try some wheel weights and see what happends.

[454PB]

Wheel weights usually have less antimony than your 50/50 range lead and linotype. Antimony is what is needed to cast a larger diameter boolit, so straight wheel weights is likely to cast smaller. I'd try 75/25 linotype to either range lead or wheel weights.

Anymore, linotype is scarce and expensive. You would probably be better off to get a mould that casts larger, or modify the one you have.

[ChuckS1]

Maybe someone already said this, but if I were you I'd dump that mold and find a Lyman 358242 or something similar. That's what I did for my CZ-75 and T-series BHP. Both guns like cast boolits at .357 diameter.

[sig2009]

Maybe someone already said this, but if I were you I'd dump that mold and find a Lyman 358242 or something similar. That's what I did for my CZ-75 and T-series BHP. Both guns like cast boolits at .357 diameter.

If I could find a 4 cavity I would but instead the mold makers on the forum have 9mm molds that I am looking into.

[monge]

great tips guys thinking of buying a 9mm mold now I fell more confident! I guess 9mm is more challenging but not impossible

[HDS]

Amazing to see somebody give an absolutely terrible idea, then see a newbie actually use it!

RUNNING/SPINNING A BRUSH IN A DRILL WILL DESTROY THE RIFLING! You're running an abrasive ACROSS the lands of the rifling. THE ONLY BARREL THAT CAN HAVE A BRUSH SPUN IN IT IS A SHOTGUN!

I guess could also be useful in cleaning revolver cylinders?

[dpicts]

I was having issue with my 9mm even thought I had done everything mentioned in this thread... finally I read that you need to mic a boolit then load it into a case (like normal but with no powder or primer) then, using an impact puller, pull the boolit and re-mic... mine were being sized down from .357 to .354 by the FCD... Ordered a non-FCD taper crimp die and repeated the above steps until my pulled bullets came out the same size as when the went in... Leading dropped to a minimal level (a bore snake remove 90+% of it in one or two passes now)
Once you get your boolits casting large enough, then make sure that they stay the size you want after they have been loaded and pulled.

[MtGun44]

One again the PITA Lee pistol FCD die is found to be ruining ammo. Glad you figured it out.

I have yet to find anyone that can articulate a real reason that the Lee pistol type of FCD is useful.
IMO, if you think you need one, what you really need is either a properly sized die set or proper
loading process. The number of folks getting bad ammo which is caused by the FCD (pistol
type) is significant.

Bill

[.5mv^2]

Lots of good advice, I can't improve but would add go to a slower powder. My boolits in 9 are at their best with Winchester super field. Leading has gone from a problem to not a problem with that one change.

[.5mv^2]

Oh and I size them all to .358 Let the pressure swedge them out.

[HDS]

One again the PITA Lee pistol FCD die is found to be ruining ammo. Glad you figured it out.

I have yet to find anyone that can articulate a real reason that the Lee pistol type of FCD is useful.
IMO, if you think you need one, what you really need is either a properly sized die set or proper
loading process. The number of folks getting bad ammo which is caused by the FCD (pistol
type) is significant.

Bill

Yeah I like the lee dies I got, but the crimp die I would swap for another brand. Knocking out the carbide die created a sharp edge in my .44 mag die that meant I had to go slow or the round would get stuck on the edge when reloading. Annoying...

[garym1a2]

+1 on WSF, it gives good velocity and low pressure.
Accuracy is great also.

Lots of good advice, I can't improve but would add go to a slower powder. My boolits in 9 are at their best with Winchester super field. Leading has gone from a problem to not a problem with that one change.

[Linstrum]

Slug your bore! That is the very first step, not an afterthought, in reloading cast projectiles for ANY gun!

My Cz85B and Browning High Power both slug at 0.3575" and the particular Lee 358-125RF mold I use drops the actual boolits at 130 grains and 0.360" diameter. I load as-cast at 0.360" and have minimal leading problems using 4.6 grains Winchester Autocomp. The Lee 358-125RF boolit is meant for .38 Spl and .357 Mag and its nose shape may not feed well in some 9mm pistols, but I haven't had any problems in my particular Cz85B and Browning High Power pistols. Also, the case volume in the 9mm Parabellum is very critical because it is a high pressure cartridge, and the seating depth has to be checked to make sure it isn't too great with bullets not meant for the 9mm Parabelum round.

rl 1080

[The Amateur]

One again the PITA Lee pistol FCD die is found to be ruining ammo. Glad you figured it out.

I have yet to find anyone that can articulate a real reason that the Lee pistol type of FCD is useful.
IMO, if you think you need one, what you really need is either a properly sized die set or proper
loading process. The number of folks getting bad ammo which is caused by the FCD (pistol
type) is significant.

Bill

My 9mm leading problem was due to my Lee expander plug.
Look at this sticky: 38/357 Lee powder through expander in 9mm die mod
Basically, my case was swaging the boolit down to .352 from .358!
To remove the leading, I removed the barrel and soaked it in a mixture of peroxide and vinegar then normal cleaning routine.

[MtGun44]

The case swaging is another potential problem. Good move to catch the fact that the
boolit was not the size you intended after seating.

Check out the sticky on the handgun section: "Setting up for boolits in a new 9mm", it has
a good step-by-step method to avoid the most common problems that folks run into
setting up to cast for 9mm.

Bill