IMR 3031 and the 45-70

[Mike Brooks]

I made up ten cartridges today with 49gr IMR 3031 and a 405gr HB lead bullet. Didn't notice untill i was done loading that this recipe was intended for a 400gr JSP. I'm shooting a Shiloh Sharps....Too hot a load for the Shiloh? Time to knock these bullets out and load again? Is there a big difference in pressures between lead and jacketed bullets?
Thanks for any advice..... I need to get the Lyman book!

[stubshaft]

Shiloh claims that their guns will take any pressure a Ruger #1 will, so they should be safe in your gun. I shoot 52.0 3031 behind RD425's out of my 1895GG.

[gary0529]

I shoot 50 gr 3031 under a 420 cast in a 1895 GG It thumps my shoulder quite nicely but no problems gun wise.

Gary

[Grapeshot]

Elmer's load for the 405 grain JSP was 51 Grains of 3031 in a Marlin 95. I tried that load and it kills on one end and cripples on the other.

[Larry Gibson]

Depending on the alloy that load may be a bit much for accuracy.

Larry Gibson

[Mike Brooks]

After some study I think this is probably a dangerous load for a Shiloh Sharps. I'll be pulling the bullets on these.[smilie=b:

[Max Brand]

After some study I think this is probably a dangerous load for a Shiloh Sharps. I'll be pulling the bullets on these.[smilie=b:

Why would you pull these? All of my data indicates they should be perfectly acceptable.

Max

[catboat]

The load itself would probably be ok (I load 50 grains of IMR 3031 with a 405 grain Rem jacketed bullet). The problem I see is the bullet. It is a hollow base. The skirt may rupture as it leaves the barrel, and accuracy may be less than optimal.

I BELIEVE, the hollow base bullets are best at lower velocities / pressures so as NOT to destroy the skirt. The velocity threshold is probably around 1400-1500 fps or less.

I think there is more of an accuracy/bullet integrity issue than an "Is this load too high pressure for my modern Sharps?"

I'd be looking at a load of 13-15 grains of Unique with that bullet, or a 3031 powder-based load that will be <1500 fps at the muzzle.

Good luck. Let's us know how it shoots. You may want to pull the bullets, and try a lower powder charge for accuracy issues, not pressure issues. You only loaded 10 rounds. That's an easy job to pull the bullets. If it were me, I'd pull them, and load to a lower velocity-for accuracy issues.

[WaywardSon]

I have not started casting yet for the 45/70 but my favorite load for deer hunting with my Marlin 1895 is 52 gr. of 3031 under the Speer 405 gr. JSP. It is warm and no doubt more than is necessary for deer...but it will shoot into an inch at 100 yards, and is the Hammer of Thor. On both ends.

I have gotten both the Lee 405 gr. and 350 gr. molds and am going to start casting for this caliber very soon. Looking forward to working up a load that the Marlin's like.

[pricedo]

Elmer's load for the 405 grain JSP was 51 Grains of 3031 in a Marlin 95. I tried that load and it kills on one end and cripples on the other.

If that's Elmer Keith's .45-70/IMR-3031 load then that's the one I'll try first with the Remington 405 grain SPs.

[Maineboy]

I USED to shoot the Lee 405 plain base with 50 grains of 3031 in my Marlin 1895 for a chronographed 1660 fps. I don't anymore and my shoulder feels much better.

[jlchucker]

Elmer's load for the 405 grain JSP was 51 Grains of 3031 in a Marlin 95. I tried that load and it kills on one end and cripples on the other.

I'll agree with that. It would make a good dinosaur load if there were any left to hunt. I like 3031 in my own 45-70 but I referred to the various loading manuals and have long ago worked up some accurate loads for my Marlin that didn't kick so hard. 51 grains of 3031 behind a JSP or 405 gr boolit will just about shake the fillings out of your teeth if you don't hold your rifle tight to your shoulder! If you back your loads down a bit they'll be more pleasant to shoot, and will still kill about anything you shoot with them.

[725]

My accuracy load is 40 gr of 3031 pushing a 420 cast and is refered to by all my friends as "the matrix load". Switches off the life force in anything it hits. Fantastic killer now used by all my friends with .45-70's. There isn't anything on this side of the world I wouldn't hunt with it.

[Doc Highwall]

Most of the hunting loads are between 48grs to 53grs and are safe in a 1895 Marlin.
The pressures should be lower with a cast bullet then a jacketed bullet and are perfectly safe in your gun. As was mentioned the higher end loads kill on both ends and who ever gets up first is the winner.

I used close to 53 grains in my 1895 Marlin.

[rhead]

I shoot the Lee hollow base using 40 grains of 3031 and like the accuracy. It also shoots well with that load when paper patched. I have heard of others getting good results with heavier loads and this bullet but my shoulder indicated that it was not interested. I use a Marlin 95 and Ruger #1.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I usually use 45 grains of 4031 with the Lyman 457124 @ 385-405 grains. It does very well in 3 different rifles; a RRB, a Winny Hi-wall and Winny 86. I have gone as high as 53 grains which was a load that was recommended to me by the NRA staff, but the recoil was not too much fun especially with curved butt plates so I backed it down. Its not an overload so pulling the rounds down is probably not necessary, but it might be worthwhile to look at in terms of accuracy and then decide from there. LLS

[Dogmann]

40 grains of 3031 pushing a 405 cast FN.... Would this be a doable easy on the shoulder load?

[Norske]

According the the first reloading manual I bought (the 1967 Lyman) a factory equivalent load for a 405 gr cast bullet is 38.5 grains IMR3031. It's a pussycat just like over-the-counter Remington or Black Hills ammunition and at 50 yards groups with the factory stuff.

[kjorgy]

I have an old Marlin 1895(1904) & I shoot 405 gr with a GC & 45 gr of IMR3031. I think it is a petty good thumper.
Doen't bother the old Marlin at all.

[dave roelle]

Hi Mike-------------ever think about going with Sharps period correct loads :) pressure considerations are then of no concern

Dave

[EDK]

Mike Venturino tried Uncle Elmer's 45/70 loads in an 1895 MARLIN 45/70 back in the 1970s. He got a scope cut over his eye and split the skin on his shoulder with the first round. Mike probably out weighted Elmer by 50 pounds plus and 40 years younger.

[Dogmann]

C'mon. No way.

[Dogmann]

40 grains of 3031 pushing a 405 cast FN.... Would this be a doable easy on the shoulder load?

Any approx idea what 49grains would do FPS wise??

[oscarflytyer]

I shoot the Lee hollow base using 40 grains of 3031 and like the accuracy. It also shoots well with that load when paper patched. I have heard of others getting good results with heavier loads and this bullet but my shoulder indicated that it was not interested. I use a Marlin 95 and Ruger #1.

I started/stopped and shoot, very successfully/happily/comfortably with 38.5 grns IMR 3031 pushing the Lee 405 HB bullet (WW + 2% tin, Pan Lubed) at somewhere in the neighborhood of 1350 fps. Ballistics are something like zeroed at 85 yds, .4" hi at 25 y and ~2" lo at 100 yds. Near creampuff on my rebuilt shoulder in Marlin 1895, and flat out slobber knocks a deer (flipped one) inside of 100 yds. All I will ever need!

PS: You really won't find this low end load anywhere - except Waters' Pet Loads! It is below book, but he lists it as a Pet Load, and I agree! Could prob cast 30-1 or even soft and do fine. I would not hesitate to shoot a pig or black bear (or sick cow or the like) inside 100 yds with it at all

[DanWalker]

Has anyone tried this powder with the 320 grain Mihec boolit? Been looking at an 8lb jug of 3031 for a while but not sure how it would do with these boolits in my ruger #1.

[shootrj2003]

40 gr. 3031 in my 1895 with 405 gr. HB IS an accuracy load and anything you hit with it will show the effects in a serious way,I have shot loads that hurt but settled on accuracy as more important,however,your Shilo sharps,your load,no sweat.but less is more accurate normally.
I once forgot my ammo,and seen a big bear,well I had a 405 slug in my pocket,and threw it hard and it knocked him out long enough for a picture by my friend,but I lost the dang Polaroid back in the 70's,no bull.

[Norske]

Elmer used as much as 60 gr of IMR3031 behind a 400 gr bullet. I got up to 50 grains of 3031 (a published max load), and said never again. 40 gr of Reloader 7 or Ramshot Exterminator was enough. I do shoot the occasional Buffalo Bore round, but not often.

[smithnframe]

Elmer's load for the 405 grain JSP was 51 Grains of 3031 in a Marlin 95. I tried that load and it kills on one end and cripples on the other.
Elmer's load was 53 grains of 3031in 1886's and modern Marlin 1895's.

[shootrj2003]

Even with 51 gr. My Marlin IS tougher than me and it and me figgered that out awhile ago,and I am ok with that..!

[Lefty SRH]

Im facing the recoil issue too. Im casting a MP 462-420, weighing 390-410 depending on which HP pin I use.
I tried a book trapdoor load using Benchmark at 46.5gr (.5gr under start load) and the scope scraped my forehead. That start load read 1694fps on my chrono from my 22” No.1.
I plan to drop back to 40.0 of Benchmark and also try 40.0gr of 3031. Im hoping to make Benchmark work, as I have a good supply of it.

[Barman54]

I Just acquired some PCoated 420 W/O GC.
Shot them over 34.0 3031, avg. 1260 FPS, in My Pedretti Sharps Replica.
Good Group, shot a little higher at 50 yards
Next Wkend hope to move out to 100, then 200 yards, should be just about Correct Elev.
Used the same Charge 34.0 in my 405 MO. Boolits, there I got 1131 FPS.

Barman54
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