Limitations of the Lee Classic Loader [Archive]

303british.com

03-06-2012, 07:36 PM

Not being able to full length resize your brass isn't a limitation. You didn't say which action type you're reloading for. If it's a bolt action or single shot, then getting a LL is a sensible option. Neck sized ammunition, loaded to the pressure levels you'll get with a Lee scoop, won't stretch the cases for many reloadings.

Hunting ammunition does not necessarily need to be full length resized. That was one writer's opinion from an old outdoors magazine many years ago. A few people repeated it, and the rest is history. You neck only size and run your finished ammunition through your rifle before you go on your trip. You'll be at the range anyway.

Here's an article about using the LL.

http://www.303british.com/id31.html

The only difficulty I see with new reloaders is priming by tapping the case onto the primer. There is a small learning curve to get it right. Generally, most people baby the hammer and it takes four or five strikes to fully seat.

Speed is the only thing that bothers most people, but it shouldn't. These tools are great for beginners or experienced users. I have reloaded at the range, on hunting trips and when visiting relatives who I did not care to see. (My wife makes me go...)

If you like reloading, you will end up buying more equipment. The LL will be another tool in your reloader's bag of tricks. If you determine that reloading isn't for you, then you're not out any money. If you're like me, you'll give away your LL to someone else. Then you'll buy more. It's a fair estimate to say that I've given out two or three hundred of them to young people, old people and in betweeners.

Have at 'er!

Multigunner

03-06-2012, 07:55 PM

I always used the still capped fired cases once as snapper caps before neck sizing to reload.
The firing pin strike is enough to micro size the fired case to the chamber just enough that the action closes easily on the reloaded cartridge.
This works fine with a bolt action, it might not work quite as well with an autoloader or lever action. Full length resizing is usually considered a must for reliability of auto loaders.
Some autoloaders slam load with such authority that cases are typically sized back down by several thousandths any way. This was a problem with the first few U S .30-06 versions of the Lewisgun, resulting in addition of a stop to limit forwards bolt movement, the rimmed .303 didn't need the stop.

When working up loads I mark case rims and rotate each neck sized reload 180 degrees on second firing of that case. From then on the cases are perfectly centered in the chamber, firing pin indentations are dead center of the primers.

Sonnypie

03-06-2012, 07:59 PM

Mostly speed.
I still have a Lee Loader in 12 gauge and 20 gauge.
I have various Lee dies for presses.
The Lee hand press is a good and reliable tool you can sit and crunch out good ammunition with.
Then things start going up from there.
But for the ground floor starting, Lee Loaders are a great beginning.

Pick your loader here. (http://www.titanreloading.com/presses/classic-lee-loader)

Hand Press. The "Nutcracker". (http://www.titanreloading.com/presses/lee-breech-lock-hand-press-only)
Pick a set of dies. PISTOL (http://www.titanreloading.com/pistol-reloading-dies/lee-carbide-or-steel-3-die-sets) or RIFLE (http://www.titanreloading.com/rifle-reloading-dies/lee-rgb-series-dies) ?

I personally reloaded a lot (several thousand rounds) with a Lee Hand Press in 9mm. I could set there in my room on my bed and crunch rounds out.
That same press still works for me as a sizing press for cast bullets. [smilie=p:

So gander through those links above. (Which are also the best prices I've found for Lee stuff.) :-D

And Welcome to Reloading! 8-)

Texantothecore

03-06-2012, 08:26 PM

The only limitation that the Lee Loader has is that the rounds supposedly do not work well in auto loaders. Other than that, you will be using a tool that held the record for smallest group at 1,000 yards for 7 years in the 1990s.

1,000 yard shooting requires perfect rounds and the Lee Loader delivers those.

stubshaft

03-06-2012, 08:29 PM

Bret4207

03-06-2012, 08:31 PM

Silvercreek Farmer

03-06-2012, 08:48 PM

Single Shot

03-06-2012, 10:28 PM

You will find that the Lee Loader is a great tool. I have some I have used for 20 years. I still take one to the range when working up a load.

In addition I have several Lee presses. One is from the late 60's and is still working fine.

Everyone has their preference on tools. On my bench, everything is Lee red except for a Saeco lubrisizer.

jcwit

03-06-2012, 11:35 PM

Speed only. I have an old Lee loader benchrest set for my 223 which included a neck reamer. It assembled ammo as good as anything else I shot. Years later I got the BR bug and got all blinged out with L.E. Wilson dies and arbor rests. It was nothing but a fancier version of a Lee Loader and the arbor press took the place of the mallet.

Yup what he said. I have a set in .223 that I take to the range and use with a Sinclair Arbor Press. I fire the same 5 cases over and over, they now have over 70 reloads on them. I will add they are not loaded anywhere to near the max, they are loaded for accuracy.

I have other sets in pistol calibers 38 spec, 357 mag., 9mm, 30 carbine, that I take to the range for working up loads, they are harder to use with the straight walled handgun calibers tho.

Maven

03-07-2012, 12:52 PM

Nice to see Steve Redgwell posting on this site again. His site has a wealth of information about the .303!

Aloxite

03-07-2012, 03:19 PM

Thanks for the input so far, just to answer some of the questions asked. I would like to load for my bolt action 30-06, mostly cast plinking loads with red dot or something similar. I would like to buy once fired brass as I don't want to burn through 50+ factory rounds just to get my brass. My dad may be interested in running some of them through his 30-06 bolt gun as well. Do they need to stay in the same rifle?

Brass fired in another rifle is formed to that chamber. If that chamber is tighter than the one in your rifle then you got lucky and don't need to full length resize.

One thing you could do is buy once fired brass that has been full length resized. I bet if you put a thread in the want to buy area someone would help you out.

mdi

03-07-2012, 05:48 PM

Regarding speed of Lee Loaders http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeEl9wZyabc. A finished cartridge in 40 seconds. My 30-30 Lee Loader takes a bit longer, but I'm not well practiced with a Lee Loader. I believe the only "drawback" is neck sizing only in bottle necked cartridges and occational need to change underwear when priming handgun brass (I occationally pop a primer when priming .44 Magnum brass, but none with 30-30, or .38 Spec.)...

frkelly74

03-07-2012, 10:38 PM

I had the problem of not being able to chamber loaded rounds when using fired brass that had unknown history. If I had tried to chamber them first I would have caught it, but I was on my own in uncharted water way back then, learning from my mistakes. Popped primers bothered my folks more than they bothered me, they weren't quite sure what I was up to.

Dave Bulla

03-08-2012, 04:20 AM

It's like a lot of tools- you give it to a bone headed guy that won;t follow the instructions or use his head and he'll have problems. Give it to a guy who observes, thinks, alter his method to fit his needs and you can produce ammo of equal quality to anything coming out of the factory or off a high dollar press. It's a slow method, but that's okay when you're learning.
__________________

+1

I have these for nearly every rifle I own and a couple that I don't. The number one drawback is when loading calibers that require a crimp. To crimp a loaded round you leave the die standing upright, take the round out of the bottom of the die and invert into the top of the die. You put the decapping base over the primed end of the round and give it a couple taps with the mallet. A taper in the die makes a crimp. The problem is, that end of the die is "opened up" for ease of adding powder and the bullet so the case is unsupported. If you go to the top of the reloading hand tools index page you will see a sticky about the lee loader. Go to page 8 and look at the pic's by heathydee and the adapter he made. I had the same idea before I saw his pic's but had not made one. I've since added one for my 45-70 kit and it works amazingly well. Now I need one for my 32-20, my 30-30, and my35 Remington. Sadly, I love leverguns so most of my ammo needs to be crimped. For that matter so does the 44 and 357.

And just to clarify, you CAN get a decent crimp without the adapter bushing but the bushing makes it super easy to keep the case straight which gives a better crimp.

To give you an idea of quality of ammo, I shrank my group size in my iron sighted 30-30 from about 2 to 2.5 inches at 25 yards down to 1/2" by switching from factory ammo to hand loaded rounds loaded in a Lee Loader. I don't know what I could do with a scope on that gun.

Junior1942

03-08-2012, 09:13 AM

All of my 45-70 Handi-Rifle rounds are loaded on whackit Lee Loaders. I said "Loaders" because I use two. One is set up for the Lee 450FP and the other one is set up for the Lee 5003R. The loaders are so cheap there's no reason not to have a loader for every bullet style I shoot.

Texantothecore

03-10-2012, 06:38 PM

As with all hammer issues, "Requires considerable force" = use a bigger hammer. There is absolutely no problem with using a 24 oz framing hammer plus a piece of wood to neck size your round. 2 lb'ers have also been used.

Building a deck with a 16 oz hammer is really hard and slow, with a framing hammer it is way easier.

mdi

03-11-2012, 12:34 PM

Hmmm, sounds like I "need" another tool; a 24 oz. Dead Blow Hammer...

HeavyMetal

03-11-2012, 01:17 PM

My first experience with reloading was with a Lee Loader in 30 Carbine.

An interesting experience and it got me started in reloading and casting a short time later.

If you do some searching, and have some patieince, look for one of the older target Lee Loaders. These come with neck reaming tools, and a old style lee priming tool.

I picked one up in 308 for about 30 bucks on line and it's awsome.

It won't replace my Dilllon but it does make great ammo!

I will also agree that it is a great starter tool.

SquirrelHollow

03-12-2012, 01:48 AM

Not being able to full length resize your brass isn't a limitation.

It absolutely IS.

Tell a guy with 2 different .30-06s or .30-30s, and a Lee Loader, that the inability to FL size is not a limitation, and see what they tell you. Odds are that anything fired in one of those is not going to chamber in the other.
...Or the guy with 12 ga shotguns manufactured in 1993 and 1929. Anything fired in the newer shotgun will not chamber in the older shotgun, due to the bases being too large. (Standards became very loose for the 12 ga, over time, due to crappier and crappier plastic hulls being made -- and the Lee Loaders for shotguns don't resize at all)

There are ways of getting around it, but it adds time and energy to the process.
For example, you can label your ammo for the specific firearm it came from.

But... what happens if circumstances push you to slowly start shooting all of your brass from the "tight" chamber in the "loose" chamber, and you end up with nothing left to reload for the "tight" one? -You're hosed, and have to buy more brass.

What happens when you and a friend head out to break a few clays with your shotguns, and he ends up firing 3 boxes of shells in his shotgun, only to find out that nothing fired in his gun will chamber in any of yours? -You're now the not-so-proud owner of 3 boxes of useless hulls.

Not being able to full-length size is not the end of the world, but it is a limitation that comes with the Lee Loaders. It should be considered before the purchase.

For a man with multiple handguns, rifles, or shot guns (especially) in the same chambering, the Lee Loader can be a very poor choice.

Texantothecore

03-12-2012, 10:18 AM

If you get into the situation in which you have a few different guns in the same caliber, just resize them on your press and go on down the road.

It is not an issue.

303british.com

03-12-2012, 05:48 PM

It absolutely IS.

Tell a guy with 2 different .30-06s or .30-30s, and a Lee Loader, that the inability to FL size is not a limitation, and see what they tell you...

Not being able to full-length size is not the end of the world, but it is a limitation that comes with the Lee Loaders. It should be considered before the purchase.

For a man with multiple handguns, rifles, or shot guns (especially) in the same chambering, the Lee Loader can be a very poor choice.

Sorry, but they are hardly a limitation. I am one of those persons who owns a number of rifles chambered for the same cartridge. The method and tools I use when reloading different 308s, 303s, 222s, 44s etc. are dependent on the purpose - hunting, target shooting, plinking, training, etc. I use different tools to accomplish this. LLs are one of those tools.

Every time I pick up a new gun, I buy a Redding body die for when the brass needs to be squeezed back. I also have a Lee nutcracker so that I can take selected equipment with me to the range or out hunting. These are in addition to my bench setup at home. In close to 40 years of using them, they have never been inconvenient or a limitation.

Your post made me count my LLs. I have 15. Some people have more. If they were a limitation, they would have gone the way of the do-do years ago.

LLs are cheaper alternatives to conventional NS die sets if money is a concern, are portable, compact and have an easier learning curve.

They are another tool in the reloader's arsenal, not a limitation.

SquirrelHollow

03-13-2012, 12:52 AM

Sorry, but they are hardly a limitation. I am one of those persons who owns a number of rifles chambered for the same cartridge. The method and tools I use when reloading different 308s, 303s, 222s, 44s etc. are dependent on the purpose - hunting, target shooting, plinking, training, etc. I use different tools to accomplish this. LLs are one of those tools.

Every time I pick up a new gun, I buy a Redding body die for when the brass needs to be squeezed back. I also have a Lee nutcracker so that I can take selected equipment with me to the range or out hunting. These are in addition to my bench setup at home. In close to 40 years of using them, they have never been inconvenient or a limitation.

Your post made me count my LLs. I have 15. Some people have more. If they were a limitation, they would have gone the way of the do-do years ago.

LLs are cheaper alternatives to conventional NS die sets if money is a concern, are portable, compact and have an easier learning curve.

They are another tool in the reloader's arsenal, not a limitation.
You're telling a guy that wants ONLY the Lee Loader that the lack of FL sizing capability is not a limitation; then turning around and saying you keep Redding body dies on hand to size your cases for use with your Lee Loaders.

Don't you see the contradiction? :roll:

I'm not trying to be a jerk. I'm just trying to make sure new reloaders reading this thread understand that not being able to FL size can have its drawbacks.
(And many of the people offering advice on the matter tend to overlook things like keeping a reloading press and body die on hand, when using a Lee Loader...)

They are not another tool in the reloader's arsenal, if they are the ONLY tool. (The very situation this thread is supposed to be addressing.)

If they were a limitation, they would have gone the way of the do-do years ago.
You could say the same thing about bicycles, black powder, lead-acid batteries, single-shot rifles, single-action revolvers, and even toilet paper (we have auto-washing toilets, after all). Every one of those things has significant drawbacks, when compared to similar concepts or the technology that replaced it. Yet, every one of those is still quite popular, even with the limitations inherent to the idea.

Lee Loaders are still available because curious newbies see them as a great way to start reloading for a minuscule investment; not because they don't have any limitations.

303british.com

03-13-2012, 06:31 AM

You're telling a guy that wants ONLY the Lee Loader that the lack of FL sizing capability is not a limitation; then turning around and saying you keep Redding body dies on hand to size your cases for use with your Lee Loaders.

Don't you see the contradiction? :roll:

No. :roll: That's where he will start, as have many others before him. He doesn't ONLY want a LL. He said that he does not anticipate doing much at the start. His exact words were,

"Other than speed, what are the limitations to the Lee loaders? Forgive me if this old ground, but I am new to reloading and don't plan on doing a lot (at least not yet). The price on the Lee loaders is certainly attractive at less than a set of dies..."

I'm not trying to be a jerk. I'm just trying to make sure new reloaders reading this thread understand that not being able to FL size can have its drawbacks.
(And many of the people offering advice on the matter tend to overlook things like keeping a reloading press and body die on hand, when using a Lee Loader...)

Oh, I see. You're being the voice of reason. Thanks for keeping us on the straight and narrow. :lol:

Lee Loaders are still available because curious newbies see them as a great way to start reloading for a minuscule investment; not because they don't have any limitations.

Precisely. Thanks for clearing that up for us. Most of us were confused.

Sonnypie

03-13-2012, 01:17 PM

A Lee Loader is not a part of my bug out plan.

But...
If one was to have to bug out, and a method to assemble ammunition was part of the bag...
A boxed Lee Loader would be much easier to toss in a pack than to unbolt your fancy press and it's stuff. ;)

Or to take as barter...

Texantothecore

03-13-2012, 02:13 PM

Not everyone who uses a Lee Classic Loader is a newbie. I am a long time reloader as well as a newbie caster. I have two different presses in addition to the Lee Loader but I use the Lee Loader exclusively now because it will produces consistently competitive rounds. 10 rounds of 405 grn .45-70 through the same hole at 100 yards is an example, fairly recent.

It is standard practice with Lee Loader to use different boxes of ammo for different rifles. Not a big deal. Some also use different Lee Loaders of the same caliber for different rifles as the seating for the bullet may be different for each rifle.

As far as speed goes, I can load at about the same rate per hour as my single stage press and the rounds are excellent. It is easy to do and the secret to loading quickly is to place your tools in the order used, in the same spot everytime. It becomes quite quick.

303british.com

03-13-2012, 02:13 PM

You have a bug out plan? Pack plenty of 7.62x39mm, clean underwear and a toothbrush.

Texantothecore

03-13-2012, 02:15 PM

The Lee Loader is the heart of my bug out bag.

Sonnypie

03-13-2012, 04:38 PM

You have a bug out plan? Pack plenty of 7.62x39mm, clean underwear and a toothbrush.

I have a bug in plan.
And 22 rifles are a part of that.
A head shot with a 22 will stop most living things. And I can transport a huge amount of ammo on my person for these "little" pill launchers.

But you *really* need to watch this (http://youtu.be/GXlNFgpPMDg).

303british.com

03-13-2012, 07:33 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM7_znfqazw

Reload3006

03-14-2012, 09:36 AM

as long as it goes bang its good. Lee classic loader is a great tool for its intended purpose. But it does have its limitations. Not knocking it at all but neck sizing only is A problem if its one you don't know about ahead of time. Also its a problem for semi autos lever actions and pump action rifles. The shot gun loaders will make a shell that goes bang. If you are using bolt action rifle they make superb ammo several national matches have been won with ammo loaded in the lee classic. Still For not that much more money you can get the Lee starter kits and have a real setup. Whack a mole dies are ok I have them but don't use them anymore they are a lot of extra work with a limited application. But they are superb at what they do.

W.R.Buchanan

03-14-2012, 06:22 PM

sonny: That was very informative piece, and I have been seeing this kind of thing more and more.

We are having a war winding down and all of those Ex Govt Employees are going to be dropped into this society with no salableskills other than warrior/hunter killer types of jobs.

I see a large uptake of offensive military groups being formed with these highly trained people, and I would just bet they will be able to do whatever tasks they are assigned with impunity, due to the covert nature of Homeland Security and other govt agencies.

The only way to end this stuff is to have a President who is willing to clean out the govt and purge all of this clandastine barf out... right after they take out Geo Soros and half of Hollywood and a few others that need to go too.

With respect to the OP's question: I think everyone should learn how to Reload on a Lee Loader.

It establishes the sequence of events in the simplest way possible, and that sequence of events will be the basis of your reloading hobby for the rest of your life.

Plus if you don't want to get in any deeper you still can make ammo that is as good as anything you can make with other tools. If you want to get out, they also have good resale value.

Sounds like a win win to me!

Randy

vacek

03-14-2012, 10:19 PM

Actually it is quite easy to go out on Ebay and get a full length size whackamo die that was made by Ideal into the 1960's; or even better, one that was made by LE Wilson. I have a lot of these in about every caliber because they are fun to collect. Regardless they are about the same size as a Lee classic neck sizing die, but when you need to full length resize for all of the above written reasons you get out one of these babies. They work really well. My bug out bag contains Lee Loaders for .308 and 9mm. I have a Wilson full length resize die for the 308 and an old Ideal for the 9mm. The work awesome and I was really surprised on how actual littl force via my plastic hammer it took. Just a thought for the naysayers.

Wayne Smith

03-19-2012, 09:37 AM

To specifically answer your question about using Lee Loader loaded ammo in two different rifles, you will only know when you try. I started loading ammo with a Lee Loader and was loading for two different 30-30's and they were so close that we had no problem using ammo loaded with each. This is probably unusual. The other option is to keep the brass sorted - your Dad's brass separate from yours. Then you have no problem. Load his brass for his rifle, your brass for yours, and as long as you don't confuse the two both rifles will shoot as long as you and your Dad want them to with nothing more than the Lee Loader wackum style.

Four Fingers of Death

03-20-2012, 07:41 AM

I also started with a Lee Loader almost 40 years ago. I have a few sets and generally buy them when I see them cheap. They make Grade A ammo if you follow the instructions. I saw a very competitive guy at a 500ys fly shoot once loading between shots with a Lee Loader. He didn't win the shoot, but he was way up there. Kicked my a$$ big time.

In Australia, SIMplex make a fls vice die. When yo need to fls, you lube the case, put them in a vice and close it, then take it out, place it on the thingo that comes with it and give it a tap with a hammer. Bingo, one FLS'd case ready to go. There must be someone in the States that make somethign similar.

I seem to remember that short fat cases like the 45 ACP are a bear to reload with the Lee Loader. I loaded the 44MAg when I wa sin my early 20s with good results and I was challenged mechanically, let me tell you!

Go buy one, whole lot of fun for not much money.

mdi

03-21-2012, 02:54 PM

Seems to be differing opinions on neck sizing only. My question is, if one has two or more guns in the same caliber, how much intelligence does it take to keep the fired brass/new ammo separate? FWIW (and not dealing with neck sizing but different guns/same cartridge) I have 5, .44 magnums and each has their favorite load, and I have no problems keeping the ammo for each individual .44 Magnun sepatate...

Four Fingers of Death

03-21-2012, 05:18 PM

Here is a link to Western Firearms in Sydney (in the suburb of Beverly Hills, no less, lol!). They specialise in reloading dies and equipment. They call it die-a-rama. Good guys and they export worldwide.

This is the Simplex FLS Vice die I mentioned earler. Does anybody in the States make anything like this?

http://westernfirearms.com.au/reloading-reloading-dies-die-a-rama-303-25-fl-simplex-vice-die-forming-die-p-2094.html

I learnt a trick off another Aussie and now in addition to buying a set of deluxe Lee dies, I also buy a set of Lee RGB dies so that the FLS die can be trimmed to make a cheapo body die! Having a spare bullet seating die is handy as well.

A frugal shooter could use a set of these to make a vice die, all you need is a rod/punch to remove the case, but the punch in your Lee Loader would do the trick.

Different coloured sharpies are good for marking different loads. I lay four or five down on a flat surface and roll them back and forwards like I was using a lube pad, while I hold the point of the sharpie in teh edge of the primer pocket.

Texantothecore

03-30-2012, 10:30 AM

W.R.Buchanan

04-06-2012, 12:42 PM

If you take the expander plug out of a regular FL sizing die you can operate it in a vise or a small arbor press.

You can also use that small arbor press with the regular Lee Loader die in place of the hammer.

If you look at Wilson benchrest dies they are nothing more than a very accurate and more expensive Lee Loaders.

Many of the benchrest guys at my club here in Ojai use the Wilson dies and load at the bench. We have 2,,, 600 yard Worlds Record holders.

I think the limit of the Lee loader is right at 100% perfection. Everything I have seen with regard to them supports this theory. You can make very good ammunition with a Lee Loader, just as you can make really good ammo with a Lyman 310 Tong Tool.

Remember that 100 years ago all reloaded ammo was made with hand tools. Presses and other tools only came along to make the process go faster.

There is only two variables in play here. How the neck is sized, and is the bullet seated strait.

I have to make an indicator stand so I can check concentricity of loaded rounds. After that I will compare some Lee Loader rounds with some made with My Lee Hand Press and RCBS Comp dies, and then a regular press.

I just bet everything is in the same ball park.

Randy

vacek

04-09-2012, 11:40 PM

kenyerian

04-25-2012, 11:44 PM

I loaded my first shotgun shells ( 16 Guage.)with a Lee Loader back in 68. Still have it and use it . Also have one in 410. I taught my grand sons reloading starting with a lee Loader as it really shows the steps needed to make good reloads. I still like to use them to work up new loads as it is very easy to load 5 of the recomended starting load and then gradually increase the powder charge until you find what your're looking for. They are very flexable.

Bullet Caster

04-26-2012, 02:43 AM

I used a Lee Loader for my .357 magnum back in the early to mid 70's. I managed to pop a few caps when trying to seat them. Didn't really bother me but the wife was wondering what happened. I never reallly loaded to .357 magnum velocity 'cause I only shot .38 Specials and loaded to that velocity.

My RBH didn't know the Lee Loader ammo from factory rounds. I eventually sold my RBH .357 and let the Lee Loader go with the pistol. Now I wish I had both back in my possession. It worked wonderfully when I could not afford anything else. BC

Shooter

04-26-2012, 07:59 AM

Bullet Caster,
We must be twins. I too had a RBH and Lee loader in the early 70's. Along with my first smokless mould, a Lyman 158 Gr. HP. Loaded M's of rounds.
I used to cast and reload co-workers brass for $5 abox. Factory was about $7.50 at the time.
I miss mine too, that gun saved me one day when I was cornered by a 800# Angus bull calf in a stable. I fired the Ruger in the ground between his feet, and he ran out.

Dave Bulla

05-11-2012, 01:02 AM

Here's a couple pic's of what I was talking about earlier about issues with crimping the case mouth on my 45-70 ammo and how I fixed the problem.

At least I hope I get them in here. First time using the advanced page with the upload feature. I don't know if I can drag them in place where I want them or if they all just go in at the end. Find out in a bit I guess.

Anyway, here goes...

#1 is a pic of my plastic bushing laying next to a black powder measure.

#2 is just to show how far it is "possible" to lean things to the side. This should never happen but I did it to show that it is very easy to lean things off center.

#3 is the normal positioning of things for the crimp step. The die is left upright, the bullet is turned nose down and inserted into the top of the die and the decapping chamber is placed over the base of the round to protect the primer and you give a couple careful taps. It's critical to hold everything square to get a good crimp.

#4 is the bushing inserted into the top of the die.

#5 is a case inserted into the bushing. Note how nicely it fits.

#6 is to show how adjustable the die is for overall length. I screwed the pieces together to make a large gap. It could be used like this but you would only control the amount of crimp by how hard or soft you hit the die.

#7 shows the die body adjusted for about a .025" gap between the bushing and the decapping chamber. This ensures equal and repeatable crimping each and every time.

Hope this helps explain things. I'll also say that I was NOT the first one to do this. Another member here posted on the sticky about making one of these and I copied it. I will say that I'd already had the idea but planned to use steel for the part but had not gotten around to having one made. Once i saw his and how well it worked, I got motivated enough to get it done.

Also, this doesn't seem to be as much of an issue with some calibers. My 44 mag loader uses a separate, double ended crimper/expander tool and it works quite well as is. My 30-30 kit is the "Unitized" version and also has the separate tool. My 35 Remington kit might get one of these made for it but it's main issue is that I need to champher the case mouth if crimping jacketed bullets or it won't work. Cast with the deeper groove work fine. I might have to lengthen the lead in angle on the crimping lip inside the die.

Dave Bulla

05-11-2012, 01:20 AM

Looks like they went in at the end. Oh well.

By the way, the bushing fits nicely inside the factory plastic box with everything else.

Other things I keep in the kit are the black powder measure even though I seldom use it and a case mouth expander I ordered from Lee that is meant for a 45 long colt but works great on the 45-70. It's pretty essential when loading cast boolits.

wilded

05-20-2012, 12:18 PM

I have used Lee loaders since I was 14 and I am now 58 without a hitch ever. I like being able to sit at my range and load three at a time for testing. They also are great for using black powder in pistol cartridges or shot shells that you do not intend to crimp and instead use an over shot wad. I also use them to make shot snake loads in pistol cartridges. Just price the Classic Shotshell loader since they are no longer made and you will see what people think of those little tools. JMHO

mwk1975

05-29-2012, 07:36 PM

I found one for a .303 Brit, paid something like $15 plus S/H off ebay. I have been more than pleased with the results. This being a rifle that I don't fire too often, I couldn't reconcile spending more for dies....

Lead Fred

05-29-2012, 07:47 PM

Lee figures you buy store boughts, and shoot them, then reload them.
All out of the same rifle. Silly Lee.....

I own 30-30, 30-06, 2x 45/70, and 44 mag.
I use a 8oz Harbor Freight mallet, which works fine.

Dont try to crimp with a framing hammer, it smashes the cases.

EDG

06-02-2012, 11:18 PM

I guess Lee never envisioned some one that gets by buying once fired brass.

UNIQUEDOT

06-03-2012, 11:21 AM

I guess Lee never envisioned some one that gets by buying once fired brass.

No, I'm sure they didn't back in 1959?? when they were first introduced, but they did make versions of the tool that did full length size.

Wayne Smith

06-06-2012, 08:54 AM

There are still a lot of the Lyman full length dies on eBay. I would imagine that 30-06 would be one of the more common. And yes, they appear to do the very same thing as the Simplex vice die.

Pommy76

06-14-2012, 04:53 AM

UNIQUEDOT

06-14-2012, 08:46 AM

G'Day all,

I have a Lee Loader for my H&R Pardner 410. I am very new to the world of loading , but have not had much luck with it :(

I can't seem to get the crimp started let alone the roll crimp ( what I'm actually after? ) the tool seems to go straight into the shell itself ???

The roll crimp is very easy to form with the Lee loader. You push the die body down over the shell til it just starts to roll and then you insert the rammer and push it down. Pull up the rammer and push the die body down a little more and then push down on the rammer again. Repeat til the crimp is formed. It sounds like a lot of work for one round, but after you learn how to use the tool crimps will be formed fast as you will learn to push the die body over the shell while pumping the rammer up and down.

kevinm600

06-19-2012, 05:07 PM

I have used a Lee Loader in .300 Win Mag for a bolt action rifle and never had any problems. The Lee Loader is a neat little tool set that makes reloading cheap and fun. The only problem I experienced was I had a primer go off when I was seating it with the rod. I seated it too deep and it went off. It blackened my fingers but did not burn them. Scared the heck out of me!!!

Use a hand primer instead.

pricedo

08-24-2012, 04:22 PM

I guess Lee never envisioned some one that gets by buying once fired brass.

You hope it's once fired brass. :Fire::guntootsmiley:

Beekeeper

08-26-2012, 12:35 PM

Well everyone has pretty well covered most of the good and the bad about Lee Classic Loaders.
I used them when I first started reloading. Still have one for almost every caliber I load for and still use them on occasion.
They are great at the range if you are working up a load and do not mind taking flack from the purests that only own the blue stuff.
I loaded at the range with a 30/06 one when I shot match until I wore it out.
Bought a new one and it is still going strong.

As I see it ,its only drawback is it only neck sizes your brass.
If you shoot multiple weapons in the same caliber you must keep the brass seperated.
Not much of a problem for me but maybe for others.

All said and done for the money you will not get a better value on loading gear anywhere.
Just starting out or an old timer if you don't have them you are missing out on one of the simple things and pleasures about reloading.

If you have them enjoy!

beekeeper

Green Frog

08-30-2012, 05:21 PM

If any of you have a copy of one of the old Ideal / Lyman reloading manuals you will note that in the instructions for the 310 NutCracker or the Little Turret Press (can't remember the name) were for neck sizing. However, in the introduction they showed how to full length resize when needed. This is the type of die I was mentioning earlier. I have around 50 of them. They work very well.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_76374f83abc4b7786.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=4764)

Unfortunately, these were not as common as the threaded dies for the 310 tool and TruLine Jr Press. I've been looking without success for the various pistol and revolver FL hammer-type dies for quite a while. I'd really like to find 32 S&W Long, 357 Mag and 44 Mag examples.:mrgreen:

Froggie

Dave Bulla

09-01-2012, 05:33 PM

Hey guys, I have a tool for 32-20 that was given to me similar to the Lyman one vacek posted the pic of. It was sent to me by a fella from here on the forum who lives in Australia along with a 32-20 Lee Loader which I'd been trying to find for some time. I could never figure out what the heck it was and thought it was a push through boolit sizer only my .313 boolits dropped right through. I'd noticed that one end had a bigger hole than the other and thought that was the end the boolit went in but after seeing this pic it hit me that this might be a sizing die.

It's a little bitty thing only 1 3/8" long which is close to the case length of the 32-20 but without getting the stuff out and measuring, I'm not sure how close. I tried to tap a case into it and it went about half way and stuck pretty hard. I thought at first that maybe I was mistaken but now I'm thinking it might be a matter that I need to lube the case if it does in fact full length size.

The box is marked as follows :

Simplex
Made in Australia by
W. Marden Pty. ltd,
Punchbowl, Sydney.

I'll try to post some pics if I can find my camera and maybe in the mean time I'll sacrifice a casing and lube it up to see if it will pound home. I assume it should go in flush like a Lee Loader?

I also just won an ebay auction for a Unitized version of the Lee Loader in 32-20 and as far as I've been told, the Unitized kit also full length sizes. I'll have to verify that for myself when it arrives.

Dave Bulla

09-01-2012, 05:46 PM

Well, just did some searching on line and found my dye listed under "Simpson vice type" dyes and found that it is in fact a full length resizing die that DOES require lube. Here's a link to one that looks like mine but is not the same caliber.

http://westernfirearms.com.au/reloading-reloading-dies-die-a-rama-rifle-dies-308-win-fl-simplex-vice-type-case-forming-die-p-3564.html

Texantothecore

09-08-2012, 11:48 AM

I just started batch processing 150 rounds of 45-70 with the Lee Classic Loader and it is very quick. At least as fast as a single stage press. I normally do one full round at a time through bullet seating but this is working really well.

I am a bit surprised even though I have used my LCL for several years.

W.R.Buchanan

09-10-2012, 02:05 PM

I wish we had a store like that place in Aus, here in the US. I looked around on their website and they have a bunch on nice stuff that I haven't seen over here.

I have never seen a FL case sizing die like those, I must have lead a sheltered life.

However that outfit has them in bastard calibers like .25-303?

Must be alot of Lee Loaders in AUS.

Now there is a whole new bunch of doodads I have to find for my reloading habit.

I do have one question? I thought everyone had to turn in their guns in AUS? Obviously this is not true but what is the real story?

Randy

Randy

WilliamDahl

09-10-2012, 04:18 PM

I do have one question? I thought everyone had to turn in their guns in AUS? Obviously this is not true but what is the real story?

Coming to a country near you soon if the leftists have their way...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/crocodile_dundee.htm

Now, the official story was that Rodney William Ansell was "affected by amphetamine intoxication" and "convinced that Freemasons had kidnapped his two sons and were now stalking him". Judge for yourself... The government wouldn't lie to you, would they?

First comes registration, then comes confiscation...

From what I understand, there is a proliferation of wildcat cartridges in Australia due to government restriction of owning firearms in military calibers plus the fact that the military surplus rifles were easily available at that time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildcat_cartridge

In Australia, wildcat cartridges were relatively common. Most are made primarily for hunting species such as deer, kangaroo, are generally based on the .303 British because of the post war popularity of that round and of the cheap surplus Australian Lee-Enfield MkIII military rifles available. Many of these surplus rifles were rebarreled to .257 caliber, known as the 303-25. One of the unique features is that these cartridges relied less on handloading - and instead were offered as proprietary cartridges from gunsmiths.

Since having an existing barrel rebored and rechambered was (at that time) less expensive than fitting a new barrel, a 303-25 rifle with a shotout barrel could be economically converted to .277 caliber, known as the 303-270.

Silvercreek Farmer

09-12-2012, 09:56 AM

Wow, can't belive this thread is still kicking. I ended up going with the Lee Hand Press so I could do some of my reloading in the livingroom without getting yelled at, but I still appreciate the simplicity of the Lee Loader. Maybe one will find its way into my ever growing box of reloading suupplies!

Survival Bill

09-12-2012, 05:18 PM

Now if it would size your GC CB when you put in the boolet it would be just about the most perfect loader.
I have had one primer go off but I was in the mood to seat em with one whack were I usually do 2 whacks to seat em..... it went off like the cap guns you had as a kid not a big deal....

bonza

09-19-2012, 09:55 PM

"I thought everyone had to turn in their guns in AUS? Obviously this is not true but what is the real story?"

No, it's not true at all, but it's a story that's been perpetuated in part by folks who really should know better (eg our own NRA, for example). Closer to the truth is that firearms ownership has been restricted in Australia for decades, but each state had it's own laws which varied widely, for example Tasmania allowed the ownership of full auto until about 17 years ago, while the Northern Territory, at one time, wouldn't allow the ownership of rifles that used factory loaded ammunition with a velocity of over 2000fps. At that time (1970s/80s) I lived in Australia & competed in Lever Action matches around the country, the folks from the N.T. could own a .45/70 (1300fps) but not a .22 rimfire magnum (2000fps)!
Anyway, after the shooting in Pt. Arthur, Tasmania, in the early 1990s firearms laws became more standardized, with certain classes of firearms being banned or restricted. Essentially semi-automatic rifles & semi automatic & pump action shotguns were banned (with certain exemptions available for farmers, etc.). The government instituted a 'buy back' were financial compensation was given for the turning in of the newly restricted classes of guns. Some of the prices given for guns was way above normal market value, & the result was most folks just turned around & took the money to their local gun store & bought better quality 'politically correct' firearms. Friends in Australia have told me that the number of guns in private hands has actually increased since the 'ban'.
As to the gun shops. I have lived in the U.S. for close to twenty years now, & have still to find a gun store equal to any that I went to in Australia as far as quantity & variety of stock on hand is concerned. This is especially true with reloading gear, & components.
Would I want to go back to Australia & live with their current gun laws? No thanks, I am very appreciative of the freedoms we have, for the most part, in this country. However, the shooting sports are alive & well in Australia despite opposition from certain groups in & out of the government (just like we have in this country).

Catshooter

09-20-2012, 07:14 PM

I didn't read every response, but I didn't see anyone list the other potential drawback to the Lee; noise. If you need to reload quietly they aren't your friend.

Cat

0verkill

09-24-2012, 10:54 PM

That's a good point for those that are used to working 3rd shift.

Jkallen83

11-30-2012, 05:03 AM

i started with Lee Loaders because they were cheap and i was learning and this taught me what all was involved in reloading. I have a Lee Loader for all my rifles and some rifles i have 2 so i have a backup just in case. I load all my rifle ammo this way. its not that slow to me. i do have a single stage press that i think is SUPER slow, and i have a progressive for 9mm which is semi-auto guns, but rifles is Lee Loader only.

if you have a bolt-action rifle, and want to load cheap but excellent ammo, Lee Loaders are the way to go. i load the best ammo i have ever fired in my guns with Lee Loaders.

you WILL pop primers from time to time but its no big deal. but to prevent that and speed up the process, i now have a Lee Hand Primer. I deprime all my brass at once, then resize all at once, then prime them with the Lee Hand Primer, then powder and seat bullet.

i find the Lee Loader to be truly relaxing to me. sure i could get a press and crank out alot of ammo fast, but they wouldnt be any better than what i have now, and i wouldnt get the relaxation of loading by hand.

Limitations??? i guess the only limitation is when ur loading and realize u just ran out of primers, powder, or bullets to load lol.

RobsTV

11-30-2012, 09:23 AM

The 45-70 round is one reason why I stopped using the Classic loader and moved to a press. Seems like it is designed to be used with jacketed. Sizing, flaring and seating resulted in shaved lead and poor accuracy with commercial Oregon Trail Laser-Cast .459 which was used before casting my own soft lead/tin for use in original 1884 BP Trapdoor (slugged .458). Forget about using with as cast lead. Even now, using a press and dies, still required the larger expander plug from Wolf's to properly size the case for lead.

Jkallen83

11-30-2012, 11:02 AM

RobsTV, I load 45-70 with soft cast with Lee Loaders, i have a pair of needle nose pliers that i use to flare the case mouth, the die then wont go all the way down on the brass, but it does keep from shaving the bullet. when you seat the bullet, everything drives together then.
i have had no issues this way but u HAVE to flare the case mouth with soft lead cast or it will shave. its a simple fix to flare with needle nose pliers.

Musket Man

02-25-2017, 05:59 PM

EDG

02-28-2017, 04:07 PM

The Garand will need a full resize because it's an autoloader? yes

wonderwolf

02-28-2017, 11:57 PM

After reading several of these responses I think I already know part of my answer I am trying to find. Just to clarify though, if I am using a Lee Classic loader for a 30/06 then I will only be able to use those cartridges in my 1903 Springfield bolt action and not my M1 Garrand? The Garrand will need a full resize because it's an autoloader?

I hope I have not confused the dickens out of you with this question.

Thanks

If you fire the cartridges in the 03 then you can load those cartridges in your LL for your O3 but they should not be used in the garand. There is a chance they will chamber but I wouldn't bet on it.

If you take cases fired out of your Garand and try to load them with the LL most likely they will not function in your O3. Not so much because its an autoloader though that does play a part with it but more because it is simply a different chamber cut in a different gun. To get a good understanding a study of how your two rifles are on headspace and case growth after firing would need to be looked at. I have recently neck sized only brass that was fired out of a tight headspaced 1919 which is an auto loader and fired them through my savage 30-06 which does not close on a field headspace gauge. Its not something that you need be overly worried about if your not that into it but it does help to understand what safe practices are in relationship to reloading and what will produce reliable reloads.

In practice however I would FL size when able and only use the LL or other neck sizing options (like with the Lyman 310 dies) when taking brass fired from a bolt action or single shots where lock up is a all or none proposition.

Musket Man

03-05-2017, 07:55 AM

If you fire the cartridges in the 03 then you can load those cartridges in your LL for your O3 but they should not be used in the garand. There is a chance they will chamber but I wouldn't bet on it.

If you take cases fired out of your Garand and try to load them with the LL most likely they will not function in your O3. Not so much because its an autoloader though that does play a part with it but more because it is simply a different chamber cut in a different gun. To get a good understanding a study of how your two rifles are on headspace and case growth after firing would need to be looked at. I have recently neck sized only brass that was fired out of a tight headspaced 1919 which is an auto loader and fired them through my savage 30-06 which does not close on a field headspace gauge. Its not something that you need be overly worried about if your not that into it but it does help to understand what safe practices are in relationship to reloading and what will produce reliable reloads.

In practice however I would FL size when able and only use the LL or other neck sizing options (like with the Lyman 310 dies) when taking brass fired from a bolt action or single shots where lock up is a all or none proposition.

I am going to throw out another statement and question at the same time. I am totally new to reloading. I had purchased a Lee Loader in 45-70 Government for my Trapdoor. It works wonderfully to load up my black powder cartridges for this old single shot. I saw that Lee had one for the 30-06, since I own a 1903 and M1 Garrand, I wondered if it would work as well as it did with my 45-70.

Full length sizing and neck sizing was two new terms for me in relation to what type firearm I was using them in. I've saved all my brass from my 03 and Garrand. What I have is a bucket of brass in my gun room all mixed together. Some I can tell what was extracted from my Garrand but most I cannot.

I went ahead and purchased a Lee Breech Single Stage Press and a set of carbide dies for the 30/06 Springfield. I have a full length sizing die and a neck sizing die as well. I would imagine it would be wise to go ahead and full length size all the brass and then make sure I keep them separate from now on before I reload them again? All my cartridges I've purchased through the CMP, 99% of it was Greek loaded, so this will be the first reload on these cases.

So back to the original thread, the Lee Classic Loader works great for my 45-70 that I only use in one firearm. Maybe not so great for my M1 Garrand lol.

I hope I haven't lost you guys in all my jibber jabber.

Thanks

mdi

03-06-2017, 12:40 PM

For Garand loading I would suggest full length sizing (Full length sizing resizes the entire case back to original size. This is needed to insure good feeding/chambering in a semi-auto. Neck sizing only sizes the neck portion of a case and leaves the body the same size as the chamber it was fired in, or very close. Problematic for a semi-auto as a "fat" round could jam in the chamber and render the gun useless). Lee Loaders for rifle cartridges, cases, only neck size, which may or may not work for semi-auto use...

I would keep my bolt gun brass and my Garand brass separate, mainly because I count reloadings and F/L size my Garand brass but much of the time now, I'm full length sizing my bolt gun brass too...

EDG

03-14-2017, 07:10 AM

You are no much of a hand loader if you cannot tell worn out brass from once fired.
Think about 1000 rounds of 30-06 USGI brass with crimped in primers.
The Lee tool is about worthless if your brass started out like that.

You hope it's once fired brass. :Fire::guntootsmiley:

Silvercreek Farmer

02-24-2019, 12:03 PM

Years later, I finally bought myself a Lee Loader. Picked up an older 357 set off of flea bay. They weren't kidding about considerable force to resize! I've got some new dents in the top of my workbench;) I'll try a little lube. Made a little scoop out of a 9mm case that throws 5 grains of Promo. I'm using an orange dead blow hammer from HF, but think I need the one with the hard plastic head. My Lee turret press cranks 357s out, but I still wanted one for some reason. Might give it to the teenage neighbor whose been talking about reloading for some time...

mdi

02-24-2019, 01:11 PM

A Lee Loader normally needs some lube when sizing straight walled cases, or at least all of mine do. Sizing portion on the die is plain steel, not carbide so a bit of lube will make sizing easier. Some hold the die in their hand when sizing, but I use a lead ingot as an anvil. Much quieter and the lead does not soften the blow enough to matter. With an anvil a dead blow hammer works well. When hammering in a difficult to size case (44 Magnum) I often felt I was beating up the case head/rim, so I switched to a dead blow or softer face hammer/mallet.

I'm not a Lee Loader expert, I just really like them (but I also like my turret press and my Co-Ax). If you are looking for more info on Lee Loaders there are some really knowledgeable fellers here; https://www.lee-loader.com/index.php

W.R.Buchanan

02-24-2019, 02:52 PM

I use a Sinclair Arbor Press or my Drill Press to run a Lee Loader. Lee Loaders are what is known as "Hand Dies" and that type of tool has been around since the beginning of Reloading. They were never meant to be used with a hammer, they were meant to be used with a small arbor press. Wilson Dies are more of the same but nicer and more expensive, and you should use the arbor press with them. A Drill Press works just like an Arbor Press and it won't hurt the drill press at all. I use my drill press in my shop to push in the roll pins that hold my Hand Presses together. Doesn't hurt it in the slightest. I didn't figure out using the Drill Press until later.

Lee just substituted the plastic mallet for the arbor press because the vast majority of people who want to reload don't have an arbor press. The plastic mallet worked fine for me for 30+ years until I fell into a little arbor press for $50. I use it for alot of things on the reloading bench.

For the life of me I really don't see why other companies who make reloading equipment haven't come out with Hand die sets like the Lee Tools. Lee has gotten more people into reloading their own ammo than any other outfit and I would extend that statement out to "all other outfits combined."

I always recommend people start with a Lee Loader so they can learn the process and not spend a ton of money doing it. if they like it they can buy more stuff. If they don't they can always sell the Lee Loader for what they've got into it.

Probably should just keep the hammer.

Randy

GONRA

02-27-2019, 06:39 PM

For wot its worth (?) GONRA uses the 3 of the SMALLEST Lee "lag screws to the bench" presses as basis for modifying for other stuff:
Priming with .50 BMG Boxer, 8mm Berdan, 9mm Berdan PRIMERS (not calibers) , also explosive bullet manufacture...
(Make yer own tooling / modify commercial dies / etc. for this stuff.....)

LARGEST Lee "lag screws to the bench" press is great for processing "range brass" etc.
Its plenty large enuf to properly (headspace / chambering in semiautos / etc.) process yer brass.

Why ANYBODY purchases the "hand presses" is beyond me. Guess we're "all different"....

W.R.Buchanan

02-27-2019, 11:30 PM

Gonra; the reason why people buy hand presses is because they want to load ammo away from their bench or they don't have space for a bench in the first place. If you live in an Apt. or Trailer you probably don't have space for a dedicated loading bench.. I just sold one today to a guy who is on vacation form Utah living in his Motor Home at the beach near here.

This was a face to face sale and as soon as he saw the tool he bought it instantly. He was a retired Marine Corps Major who ran the Scout Sniper School at Camp Pendelton. He immediately saw the value of such a tool. I didn't have to do any sales pitch, it sold itself as soon as he touched it.

Randy