45 acp not burning all powder with 230gr?

[grantr]

I've been loading 230 grain ball commercial cast bullets with 5.2 grains of Universal powder. There is always a bit of unburned powder flakes in the breach and barrel.

Why is it not burning? I'm shooting them in a Springfield milspec 1911. I tried a mag full of them loaded to 4.3 grains. They cycled the gun fine and where much more pleasant to shoot than the 5.2 loading.

Is this a poor powder for 45acp?

It seem to that I have some bullets that go astray. It could very well be me but I can swear the gun does not move and some bullets shoot way off of the aiming point at 10 yards.

My gun seems to like the rounds. I don't' have any leading signs after 150 rounds. Bore is 2 thousanths under bullet size.

[Rocky Raab]

As you will learn in any of the other umpteen "unburned powder" threads, powders do not burn completely when used at less than their design pressure range. The 45 ACP is a low-pressure round that is designed to burn fast powders. John Browning called for Bullseye, and a lot of folks would opine that he knew what he was doing.

[HangFireW8]

What Rocky said.

Sometimes using more powder will result in a cleaner burn due to higher pressure and temps. Or you may have humid powder. Or, like Rocky said, too low pressure, poor burn for a slower powder.

[rexherring]

I've seen a lot of loads listed for this powder but it is on the slow side for the .45 ACP. If you don't mind a little powder flake, don't worry about it. The random shot placement could be from the extreme spread of an incomplete burn and the boolit not working at that pressure properly. They commercial boolits may be a tad undersized too. But, if you want cleaner ignition, go a little faster powder like Red Dot, AA#2, 700x, Bullseye or W231. One of our top shooting champs here uses AA#2 for all his target loads.

[GT27]

Get a pound of Titegroup 4.5-5.0 grains with your 230 pill,clean and accurate,you wont look back!
http://i43.tinypic.com/np5piw.jpg The King!!

[Rocky Raab]

It is also true that newer powders are designed to burn cleaner. Gray-haired old geezers like Bullseye and Unique are fine powders, but their technology didn't include clean burning. More than one wit has dubbed them "flammable dirt."

Clays and Universal are among the newer and cleaner powders, but still must be used within their design parameters. Clays would be a better bet for the 45 ACP than Universal. Other impressively clean new powders include TiteGroup, American Select, Accurate #2 and #5, and Zip - among others, I'm sure.

[Larry Gibson]

grantr

I've been loading 230 grain ball commercial cast bullets with 5.2 grains of Universal powder. There is always a bit of unburned powder flakes in the breach and barrel.

Why is it not burning? I'm shooting them in a Springfield milspec 1911. I tried a mag full of them loaded to 4.3 grains. They cycled the gun fine and where much more pleasant to shoot than the 5.2 loading.

It is not burning clean because the psi is not high enough for it to burn efficiently and cleanly. Hodgdon lists 5.4 gr Universal as a starting load with a 230 gr jacketed bullet.

Is this a poor powder for 45acp?

No, it is not a "poor powder" for the 45 ACP but the load you are using is a poor load for the 45 ACP. Suggest you bump the powder charge up to 5.8 gr.

It seem to that I have some bullets that go astray. It could very well be me but I can swear the gun does not move and some bullets shoot way off of the aiming point at 10 yards.

Probably because the ignition and burning performance is very poor.

My gun seems to like the rounds. I don't' have any leading signs after 150 rounds. Bore is 2 thousanths under bullet size.

I suggest, if you want such a low recoiling load, that you switch to a faster burning powder like VVN320, Bullseye or 231. Use 4.5 - 4.8 gr of any of them. Better would be to go with a lighter bullet also such as a 195 - 205 gr cast.

Larry Gibson

[Rocky Raab]

I didn't catch that "sub-Start" charge weight, Larry, but you did. Good on ya. Spot on analysis, too.

[garym1a2]

4gr of bullseye or clays or WST works great with 200 gr swc.

[runfiverun]

i just read this exact same question [the load was 5.2] on another thread.
the answers were exactly the same.
why?
because that is the problem.
sooty cases?
i'd bet you have some streaks, cause the pressure is too low to seal them to the chamber walls.
flyers?
poor ignition characteristics.
or low velocity.
think about using 5 grs of 2400 in a rifle case.

[Lefty SRH]

Clays works great in my Kimber .45, clean and VERY accurate

[Max Brand]

I use Universal almost exclusively in my 45acp loads and have never had an issue with unburned powder out of my 1911's. I will say however that I have never tried run that light of a powder charge, mine are usually much closer to the max per Hodgdon's load recommendations.

[Frank46]

When I first started shooting 1911's a buddy gave me a great deal on a dillon 550, powder, bullets, primers and cases. Said to start with WST and I never looked back. Years later still shoots great with 230 grain hard cast so never changed. Frank

[timbuck]

I load 10grains of aa7, 230 grain boolit lee tl.
It is bright inside the brass and no unburned powder.

[Bambeno]

i
Get a pound of Titegroup 4.5-5.0 grains with your 230 pill,clean and accurate,you wont look back!
http://i43.tinypic.com/np5piw.jpg The King!!
I agree the man was an uncommon genius in firearms design. I find it interesting how many of the old photos are flipped too.

[runfiverun]

that's because tintypes are the negative.
there is no picture,just the reverse negative image.
that's why most people think everybody was left handed in those days,and the guns were built left handed also.
later when things changed from black and grey to brown and yellow more right handed people were born and the worlds tools followed suit, but you couldn't hear anybody talk and
of course all those tools were recycled into right handed implements.
there was a renaisance period later where things went back to black and grey again, this was quickly over shadowed by the color movement [there was much turmoil during this period] and the world has been slowly going down hill since.

[Shiloh]

4gr of bullseye or clays or WST works great with 200 gr swc.

Works great for me.

Shiloh

[Rocky Raab]

runfiverun has it. That's how I knew Vietnam wasn't a real war: it was in full color and there was never any background music...

[Larry Gibson]

No back ground music????

Didn't you watch that most factual movie (aren't they all?) Apocolypse Now? We all went into battle with loud speakers blaring Wagner or whatever.........that's what everyone believes anyways..........just like we all smoked dope, bayoneted babies, fragged the officers and murdered each other.........and inocent women and children...........

Larry Gibson

[fredj338]

I never got good results w/ Universal & lead bullets in any caliber. So it's back to Unique or maybe WSF.

[williamwaco]

+1 on Larry Gibson.

Modern powders burning cleaner?

The dirtiest powder on my shelf is A No. 2 I get much more unburned powder granules than with Bullseye or Unique.

That said:

Shake those unburned kernels out on a piece of white paper and take a close look at them with an 8 to 10x glass. You will find that many of them are not "unburned" but just a powder granule shaped husk of ash.


.

[Char-Gar]

I have loaded 250,000 rounds of 45 ACP ammo for the 1911 pistol and have used Bullseye for 99% of them. I don't plan to change. Unburned powder is never a problem.

I continue to scratch and shake my head at folks who keep trying to do new things with the round and pistol. We broke the code on all of this 100 years ago, but folks still insist on reinventing the wheel.

I am indeed a grey haired geezer and use Bulleye, Unique and 2400 for my handgun reloading. Don't plan on changing either. I have been washing my hands and cleaning my guns for a very long time, and figured out how that is done.

[Rocky Raab]

On the other hand, Char-Gar, most of us are quite happy that somebody in 1880 or so thought, "There must be something that burns cleaner than FFg..."

(With apologies to those who are about to jump on me with tales of the Holy Black.)

[runfiverun]

On the other hand, Char-Gar, most of us are quite happy that somebody in 1880 or so thought, "There must be something that burns cleaner than FFg..."

(With apologies to those who are about to jump on me with tales of the Holy Black.)

black does work in the 45 acp too:-D
i have some other powders available on the shelf too though so i'll use one of them.

[ColColt]

Speaking of the "Holy Black", I have reloaded 45 Colt cases with as much of it as I could stick in the case and still seat the bullet. It was a trip down nostalgia lane...until cleaning time. Soap and water worked best but I can guarantee you it will put you in the dog house if the wife is home.

[Pete57]

I am one of them Gray-haired old geezers i load 5.8gr cfe pistol with 230gr rnfp the only time i get unburned powder is with small pistol primers cases

[Kosh75287]

Did you notice how old this thread is?

[jsizemore]

Like he said, old and geezer. If you were in earshot he would have said "What?".

[fredj338]

The slower the powder the closer to the top end you want to be for complete burn. If you want lighter target loads drop to a faster powder.