American Mosin?

[kb8yrw]

Saturday I was out making my rounds to the local gun shops. I walked into one and the owner said "your into that old military junk arn't you?" I said that depends on what you consider junk :mrgreen: He reached behind the counter and handed me a Mosin Nagant which I recognized right away. What I didn't recognize was the maker "1916 Remington Armory" I was intrigued. I already own two mosins one hex and one round so I really wasn't in the market for another but.........! I am not an impulse buyer and I didn't know (and still don't) know enough to say this is something I should own but I must say several days later I am still thinking about it. I asked how much and he said $225. I looked the rifle over and the numbers matched except for the bolt and it has all the wood still on it. Now I have done some research on the internet and found out that they are on the rare side and I guess the 1916 is harder to find than the 1917. From what Ive read the price is not out of line either. He also pulled out what looked like a small Mosin and said it was a 22 training rifle, probably polish. He aid he wanted $225 for that too. I didnt look at that too hard because the voices in my head were yelling at me to buy the Remington. I handed it back to him and said I will have to look it up.

So should I run back there today and offer him $200 for the Remington Armory? Like I said I was not really shopping for one, I was looking for a revolver but I like having things that are hard to find. I just hate paying $225 for a Mosin when I can buy them for $69.00 but if the collector value is there then I will put out the cash. Thanks for you opinions! :confused:

[lavenatti]

I would go get it. I'm a big Mosin fan and my understanding has always been all US made Mosins were marked 1917. I have a few each from Remington and Westinghouse - all 1917.

What kind of wood? The US made guns had walnut stocks. I have a few with the finger-jointed Finish stocks and a few with the original walnut. What type of wood is a good way to determine some of the history of the piece. A walnut stock probably means it stayed in the US because the Russians never paid for it and a finger jointed birch stock means the five Russian soldiers it was issued to all died and the Fins captured and reworked the rifle.

[Ed in North Texas]

Lavenatti,

It's been a long, long time since I've looked closely at a Remington (or Westinghouse) made rifle (like about 1962 or 3), but are the Remington made rifles marked "Remington Armory", or just "Remington" ?

Ed

[sewerman68]

The polish .22 mosin trainer is probably far more rare than the remington. That is a reasonable (not great) price on the Remington. Local gun show last week end had a cpl in 190-200 $ range.

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/0118.jpg

[218bee]

I always heard the Remington rifles were "top-notch" as Russian inspectors were supposedly overseeing every stage of manufacturing and quality control. According to "The Mosin-Nagant Rifle" by Terence Lapin, Rem-UMC rifles were made from 1915-1918 with 840,310 made.
New England Westinghouse during 1915-1917 made 769,520.
He claims they should be stamped "Remington Armory 1917"
Hope that helps a little.
Buy IT.

[kb8yrw]

This one was definitly marked 1916. I am going to try and make it back over there after work to take another look at it. Work keeps getting in the way of my hobbies!

[EMC45]

I have a New England Westinghouse. It is marked 1915. It shoots well. It has been reworked by Finland. A few years back it was given to me.

[Hardcast416taylor]

According to a Remington book on the history of their firearms. A Russian inspector nicknamed "Ivan the Terrible" because he dressed like a cossack, was severe in his testing the safety on Mosin rifles being made. He would load the rifle and chamber a live round, put on the safety then slam the butt stock on the factory concrete floor attempting to get a safety to fail. He broke many stocks doing this stunt till a rifle with a deliberate weak safety was placed for him to try. The rifle discharged the round just missing his fur hat and exiting thru the roof! He was replaced by a milder tempered inspector. The U.S. used many of these rifles to train our troops heading for France. We had quite afew as the new Marxist gov`t wouldn`t pay for what Remington had been making for the Czar.Robert

[KCSO]

In addition when the Russians couldn't pay in 1917 a batch of these were issued to American troops that were in Siberia. After WWI Remington sold a whole batch of these here through SEARS? if I rember right.

[lavenatti]

Ed,

They are marked Remington Armory.

[Gtek]

I have a 1917 with Russian acceptance marks, no bayo, matching, mint bore and all original walnut. 90+ on a bad day. I have seen several go the last couple years into four digits. Like anything - the buyer will decide what will be paid. Gtek

[WineMan]

From what I have read, all NEW's were marked 1915. The Kerr sling which was used mainly on the M1917 "Enfield" also carried instructions on how to rig it for the "Russian Rifle" http://www.armscollectors.com/17sling/. Some US troops who fought with the White Army against the Bolsheviks used MN's but disliked them http://pbma.grobbel.org/. I would get it. My Tula 1936 was a Spanish Civil war import from the early 1960's. It is stamped USSR (not URSS like some are)

Wineman

[oscarflytyer]

Have 3 MNs - one a Finn. Have seen the Westinghouse and Rems going for $300. I would give $200-225 OTD for a 1916 Rem in the market I am in.

[nwellons]

1916 Remingtons are rare and collectable. Worth more than he is asking, if the condition is at least decent. Any sporterizing will completely ruin the collector's value.

It is correct that all NEW's are marked 1915 but there are differences in the logo.

For all things Mosin, check out:
http://7.62x54r.net/
http://mosinnagant.net/

[Multigunner]

The Mosin Nagant was officially adopted by the U S for use as a training rifle, given the designation of M1916, with manuals and Rules of Management the same as the M1917 rifle.

The American troops involved in the Archangel operation did fight the Reds on several occasions, but not as support for the White Russians.
The Archangel expedition was intended to reclaim war materials that had been delivered to the Czar but never paid for. Preventing the seizure of this war material by Bolsheviks was secondary.

For the most part non U S forces involved in this operation were Checoslavakian POWs freed from prison camps and supplied with food and arms , their job was to patrol the rail lines.

[NuJudge]

I have one marked 1918, with no original serial number. It is probably a lunchbox special.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I always heard the Remington rifles were "top-notch" as Russian inspectors were supposedly overseeing every stage of manufacturing and quality control. According to "The Mosin-Nagant Rifle" by Terence Lapin, Rem-UMC rifles were made from 1915-1918 with 840,310 made.
New England Westinghouse during 1915-1917 made 769,520.
He claims they should be stamped "Remington Armory 1917"
Hope that helps a little.
Buy IT.

Not only were they inspecting them, but they knew things were about to go pear shaped back home and apparently used any excuse to delay the process because being stranded in the States was a way better prospect then being one of the Czar's officers back home and as such an instant enemy of the New Regime.

I have a 1917, very original with a good barrel. I paid $150 for it, but the owner who was selling it on consingment nor the gunshop owner had any idea what it was worth. I was in the process of buying a MAS36 with dies and ammo for $200 when I noticed the MN. I looked at it and made an offer for both for $350 from memory, expecting to be laughed out of the shop. Turns out they were both owned by the same customer. A quick phone call and my offer was accepted. Some days are diamonds, some days are stones! That was a diamond day.

I've never been overly curious about MNs, but respected them as a good rifle, especially for operating in the expreme temperatures found in Russia. When I saw the Remington stamped on it and the overall condition, I instantly became a proud Mosin Nagant owner! It is a long rifle, I'm a giant and it comes up to my chest. I had tp cut a hole in the top of my safe to fit it in. I now have a bigger safe, lol.

[kb8yrw]

I finally made it back over to the shop Saturday to have another look at it. He had it out on the rack now along with the 22 training rifle. First thing I noticed was the price tag hanging off it. The price went from 225 that he told me to $399!!!! The 22 went from 225 to $299. I didnt say anything but did pick it up and looked it over. There is an import mark on the underside of the barrel right under the front sight, interarms I think. I did not see the Finn stamp on it anywhere but did notice what looked like a 6 digit number about 1" high very faint on the buttstock. I had it in my mind I was going to buy it for $225 but I didn't even want to haggle from $399. I'll go back in a couple weeks and see if it's still there then remind him what he told me he wanted for it.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Bummer! Don't you just hate that??????

[KaliforniaRebel]

The good: Better build quality and proudly made in America.
The bad: Price is quite a bit more then the Russian surplus and you can't remove or modify the rear sight for a scout scope attachment.