Ruger #3 in .45-70

[offshore44]

Well, the wife went and did it this weekend. She put money down on a really nice looking Ruger #3 in .45-70. She liked the looks of the "lever thingy" and the wood. Not joking.

So here's the $24,000 question...

How do you make this thing shoot 350 grain cast with low recoil? She shoots my 458 win mag loaded with Trail Boss fine, but that's a 12 pound rifle. I told her that I would come up with something. Did I just toast myself?

Any and all ideas gladly entertained...

(Oh, and she is a big fan of accuracy...five shot groups off the bench with three touching would be just fine by her.)

[Haggway]

I use trail boss and sr4759 in mine. These give me a nice light load using a 300 grain cast. I am going to move up to the 350 or 405, to see if I can get better accuracy. The first loads showd promiss, but I have only gotten to try ten of each. I am using the lyman cast data for the sr4759. The trail boss is from the imr data.
http://s1142.photobucket.com/albums/n610/haggway/?action=view&current=IMG_6398.jpg

[oksmle]

I have been using 12.5 grains of Unique, no filler & Remington LP Primers that I originally developed for my original Springfield carbine. This load gives almost identical velocities of 1150 fps with the 350 grain boolit cast of WWs in both the carbine & #3. Very pleasant to shoot. Accuracy isn't quite what I normally want, but when fired at 100 yards offhand will do better than I can.

[35Whelen]

16.5 grains of Unique.... 1/2 grain tuft of polyester filler ( I know some say not needed, but I do it to keep safe in my mind) and a 400 grain cast bullet is a slow push back and very pleasant to shoot. Runs about 1350 in my Ruger, and low pressure. Fun to shoot and it doesn't bite back.

[Larry Gibson]

Since Rapine is out of business I'd suggest the Lyman 457191 290 gr cast loaded over 7.5 - 8 gr of Bullseye for 900 - 1000 fps out of the #3. She will find them pleasant to shoot and accurate. My wife shoots 275 gr Rapine 460250s at 1050 fps from my (she thinks it is hers) H&R trapdoor LBH carbine which is about the same weight and recoil as the #3 Ruger. Accuracy is excellent to 385+ yards BTW.

Larry Gibson

[stubshaft]

The one thing that I did not care for on the #3 was the stock fit. It didn't fit me as well as the #1 and IIRC had a lower comb to shoot the irons with. It is an excellent rifle and fun to shoot if it fits properly. Actually two things the buttplate squirmed around on my shoulder.

[offshore44]

Thanks folks!

So, If I'm hearing what you-all are saying correctly...it is do-able. Unique, Bullseye and SR4759 aren't on the shelf, but that is fixable.

I should get some Bullseye for the 45acp anyway, and Unique is ubiquitous for cast shooting it seems.

You're getting good accuracy out of the Rapine 275 grn boolit, Larry? There's hope on that account as well then.

I'll do "a little shuffle and sidestep" until I get it figured out. Another .45 mold wouldn't hurt, and Lee's are pretty cheap in the grand scheme of things.

Thanks again guys, and expect me back with specific questions when I get to that point!

It's the first single shot in the family. Another dang mouth to feed...

[excess650]

You could paper patch some 45acp boolits, or even 45 Colt boolits. There was a really lightweight boolit used in the 45-70s 210gr or so 457127. Maybe beagle a Lee 45-230TC?

I've used some Unique loads and found them to be pretty accurate as well as mild recoiling. IIRC, I was using the 340gr Gould HP.

Even a #1 in 45-70 recoils rather stoutly.

[Nobade]

RCBS 45-325-FN-U over 16.0gr. Trail Boss is fun and accurate. It's my cowboy silhouette load, and I can fire a 40 shot match with the 6.5lb. Marlin with no problem.

[725]

Read the Paul Matthews book on the .45-70. He spent much of his time on the #3 in .45-70.

[tacklebury]

34 gr. Reloader7 very little recoil barely even a push. Feels like a .223 and is quite accurate. I make my wife's .45-70 loads with 325gr. FTX bullets or 350 cast. ;)

[TCLouis]

10.5 grains of Milsurp (that thinks it is Unique (not the current Russki Unique)) and a boolit of the weight around what you proosed leave my 86 at 1100 fps or you might try 23.5 4759 (or less) for something on the order of 1250 fps.

The 10.5 grain loading gave the smallest group I have ever shot out of the 45-70 at 50 yards.

All of mine are loaded with Winchester LP primers, or were til I ran out, but I still have that ammo available.

Hope the Mag Tech's perform as well when called upon.

[offshore44]

Read the Paul Matthews book on the .45-70. He spent much of his time on the #3 in .45-70.

I forgot about that...He did, didn't he? I was cogitating at lunch today about my RCBS 45, 230 grn mold and paper patching today at lunch. With that slight shoulder just at the start of the ogive, it would be a natural patched to a firm thumb push fit into a fired case. The boolits drop at 0.452" or just a hair under depending on alloy. Perfect size for patching. Almost the entire patch would be in the case, and she would probably take awhile to notice... (evil grin) Run them at about 1400 fps or whatever the rifle says it likes for a load. All she's ever going to do with this is punch paper...so I don't need to worry about terminal performance at all.

Man, I've got to get this rifle in the house so I can slug the bore and see what's what.

Can you beagle a mold by 0.007" or so? Just asking, as I have that 45 mold for the acp.

I need to look into dacron filler too.

[bigted]

34 gr. Reloader7 very little recoil barely even a push. Feels like a .223 and is quite accurate. I make my wife's .45-70 loads with 325gr. FTX bullets or 350 cast. ;)


tacklebury took my thunder with his suggestion...only thing id add is that with a few hundred 34 grain loads of rl-7 thru my rifles i only suggest to fill the remainder of the case up to the base of the boolit with corn meal for a filler...while not required it did make an accuracy difference with my hiwall with its 20 inch twist barrel.

another mention here is the .452 colt 45 boolits in 250 grain and patching them to .458 diameter and being pushed with 53 grains of imr 3031 is a very pleasant load and whistles dixie out the barrel with no leading whatsoever. also with this load the case is full to the bottom of the boolit which is always desireable.

have fun with the "wifes" rifle...LOL

[Swampman]

My 1st 3 shots at 100 yards using 30 grains of IMR-4198 and a 405 grain Georgia Arms cast bullet shows that they shoot nice. IMO they are the best single shot hunting rifle ever made. Unique and the 340 grain Lee bullet shoots just as well. Avoid fillers unless you want to ruin your rifle.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/Woodsman1956/Ruger/100_0478.jpg

[Larry Gibson]

"Avoid fillers unless you want to ruin your rifle."


?????????

Might want to avoid over powder wads but a proper filler with a proper load poses no danger to the rifle.

Larry Gibson

[Swampman]

"Avoid fillers unless you want to ruin your rifle."


?????????

Might want to avoid over powder wads but a proper filler with a proper load poses no danger to the rifle.

Larry Gibson

I've seen dacron ring a chamber. I don't use fillers.

[Swampman]

Here you can see me shooting my Sharps carbine which weighs about the same as my #3 Ruger. The first two shots are with 12.5 of Unique and the 340 Lee bullet. The second two are with the 405 over 30 grains of IMR-4198. The recoil isn't bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWxuHbycvj0

[bigted]

i have never had any problem using fillers but ill say that coming from a black powder background...i never have used the dacron or pufflon or any of the other 'airy' fillers as i just cant seem to want to take a chance with any air pocket between the bullet and tha powder. cream of wheat or corn meal for me and i very litely compress these two with the boolit to ensure no air in the column...this is with just straightwall cases like the 45-70..45 colt..44 mag..357 mag...and such...oh and my favorite...the 45-120 sharps straight. i started shooting black as a kid thru some old muzzle loaders and had just a blast with them...now im doing so with the cartridge guns and finding that they also are the same fun i remember from my long ago childhood days.

with a bit of foolin round with those short lite pistol boolits paper patched you can wind up with a very lite load and with regard to accuracy they will deliver but as has been mentioned...they will be destructive on anything of substance. but loading and shooting paper patch boolits thru the 45-70 is just about as fun as it gets...i love the shower of paper shards out the front of the barrel after the shot.

[offshore44]

Thanks guys! Good stuff here...

[Larry Gibson]

I've seen dacron ring a chamber. I don't use fillers.

Dacron used as a wad (as it used to be used in Lyman manuals) can do that, especially with the faster burning powders under heavier bullets. When properly used as a filler with powders that it should be used with it doesn't. Using any filler or wad over a powder like Unique is not a good idea. However, the cacron filler is very good over 2400, 4227, 4759, 4198, 5744, 3031, RL7 and 4895 for example in loads with 80% or less loading density with 300 gr of heavier bullets. Anything can be misused or abused, a dacron filler used correctly is perfectly safe.

Larry Gibson

[Swampman]

I'll pass on wads and filler. That's safest.

[offshore44]

Dacron used as a wad (as it used to be used in Lyman manuals) can do that, especially with the faster burning powders under heavier bullets. When properly used as a filler with powders that it should be used with it doesn't. Using any filler or wad over a powder like Unique is not a good idea. However, the cacron filler is very good over 2400, 4227, 4759, 4198, 5744, 3031, RL7 and 4895 for example in loads with 80% or less loading density with 300 gr of heavier bullets. Anything can be misused or abused, a dacron filler used correctly is perfectly safe.

Larry Gibson

So about dacron filler Larry... I don't want to start a flame war here, but I have to ask.

Here is an idea that I had that is related to this thread. The Lyman manual has a 292 grn cast bullet listed with a starting charge of 37 grns of 5744 in the 458 win mag. What are my chances of getting into trouble with a paper patched bullet of 230grns, 37 grns of 5744 and a dacron filler that just barely compresses when the bullet is seated? The bullet is for the 45 ACP. Lyman lists the same bullet in the 45-70 with a starting charge of 38 grns of 5744. What about using dacron with the same parameters there? Will I gain consistency in velocity? Ignition? Is dacron even useful under this scenario?

Thanks a bunch for the input.

[gandydancer]

on the ruger # 3 carbine even with the light loads that cresent butt stock will start to hurt change it to a shotgun type butt stock and make sure it fits her well also. the ruger 3's & the # 1 will give you full felt recoil to the shooter even with light loads. GD

[offshore44]

...and that's what I am concerned about. Worst case I'll rebarrel it to .357 mag and she can have a revolver and a rifle that shoots the same cartridge. I'll try light loads first and see how that turns out. All this because she liked the shape of the lever...

[Swampman]

Before you booger it up, sell it. Too many of them have been boogered up already. The loads I suggested don't kick at all. Dacron wads are unnecessary.

[Haggway]

Plus 1 swampman
Change out the stock first.
Here is what I did.
http://s1142.photobucket.com/albums/n610/haggway/?action=view&current=IMG_6398.jpg

[Ben]

Very nice, where did you get you wood.

Ben

[Haggway]

It was a take off from a stainless # 1

[gandydancer]

Plus 1 swampman
Change out the stock first.
Here is what I did.
http://s1142.photobucket.com/albums/n610/haggway/?action=view&current=IMG_6398.jpg

now that's the way to go. did you have any trouble swaping it around to fit the number #3 ? I agree with swampman no need to booger a #3 up . thanks. GD

I like the # 3's I have (3) three of them all custom 32/20 (308 bore) 32/40 & 250/3000 I'm I bragging? YEP. now how do I get that yanking your chain on here. I do wish to stay out of trouble.

[offshore44]

Haggaway...that is a nice looking rifle.

I will try the loads that you suggested first, swampman. I would rather not do anything to the rifle as well, but, after all, they are a tool and a tool has to fit and work correctly.

[Haggway]

Very little fitting, took my gunsmith about 10 min to have it installed correctly. He had a customer put a (throws up a little) plastic stock on a stainless. I got a great deal on the set.

[Shooter6br]

Like my Ruger No 1 laminate stainless steel ...Great cast bullet gun Not for the purist type( Walnut and blue)

[9.3X62AL]

I've seen dacron ring a chamber. I don't use fillers.

Got one in the safe, too. Serial expletives deleted.