First time casting - several questions

[Bob58]

Thanks Cast Boolit form, and thanks Mark (7mmBR) for all the help.

Finally got most of the equipment rounded up, and tried casting yesterday for the first time.

First - went cheap and bought a Lee Pro 4-20 pot. Thanks for the suggestion on lapping the metering rod into the bottom of the pot. I tried this, and the pot hasn't leaked even once, with probably 2 solid hours of casting.

Found out right away how important the flow rate thru the bottom of the pot is. It was way too high initally, and lead poured directly into a mold cavity shot back out, and somewhat of an angle, for several inches. With the flow rate much slower, I didn't have this problem. It seemed to work better to not pour directly into the cavity (which I have read is better anyway.)

First question - can I, very carefully using a Dremel tool, remove some sprue plate material between the two cavities, to form a channel connecting them? I want to do this so that I can pour half way between the two cavities, and have the lead flow into both cavities simultaneously.

Next question - even after many casts, I still couldn't get the narrow driving bands to fill out completely. Bases and noses were generally filled completely, though. This was with a Lyman 2 cavity mold for .45 caliber GC bullets. The alloy that I am using I purchased new as "Lyman #2", with the specs showing 2% lead, 6% antimony, and the rest lead. Is this too little tin to fill out the driving bands?

I tried pouring the bullets with the lead temperature as high as 800 deg F, and still no fillout on the driving bands, so I'm not sure that temperature is the issue.

Altogether, I cast close to 70 bullets, thinking that this would be sufficient for "breaking the mold in." Is this correct, or should I try several more "trial casts" before worrying about bullet fillout?

Generally, I was pleased with the way things went. Again, thanks to all for the help, especially Mark. Bullets toward the end of the session were quite round (never saw more than 0.5 thousandths out of round, and most were nearly perfectly round.) The diameter was almost exactly 0.452", which I think will work well in my Freedom 97. Since there was incomplete fillout, I didn't bother weighing any.

Thanks for the replies. Am editing to provide some additional info.

I carefully cleaned all surfaces of the mold beforehand, ending up spraying the cavities several times with Shooter's Choice gun cleaner (a very potent degreaser.) I didn't smoke the cavities. Would that be helpful?

Thought of another question. When I finished, I left the last two bullets cast in the mold. Without opening the modl, I then sprayed the mold with Shooter's Choice Rust Prevent. Is this a good procedure for storage? I should have some time this Saturday for casting again, and will try some of the suggestions.

I placed the mold in the Lyman handle "backwards" from most pictures I have seen. This allows me to strike the sprue plate in what I think is the fashion most likely to allow a controlled strike with no component of strike force outside of the plane of the sprue plate. Are their any downsides to this?

Bob58

[R.M.]

Well, to start with, welcome to our humble hobbie, and board. You will get pretty much every question answered, no matter how simple you might think it is. There's thousands of years of casting experienced on this board. Just remember that there's more than one way to skin a cat, and if you get differing answers, don't think that somebody's wrong.
To start with, is your mold clean, and hot enough? Did you smoke the cavities? Is your fill rate high enough?
It sounds like your alloy should be good, so look for other possible cures.
I have a 4 cavity Lyman with a sprue-plate that has a trough like you're asking about, and I don't like it myself.

Anyway, you should be on the right track soon. Good Luck, and enjoy.
R.M.

[UweJ]

Welcome Bob58
Like R.M already mentioned did you get all greasy residues out of the mold? Did you smoke the cavities? The temp you are using should be more than sufficient to get a very good fillout and the alloy is also ok.Try with brake cleaner to get the mold degreased and I usually take a candle to smoke the mold.Let only the top of the flame tough the mold that´l give you a good graphite layer in the mold.
Thats my 2 cent´s worth ,Good luck
Uwe

[klausg]

Bob58-
I degrease via the 'soak' method; I bought a quart of denatured alcohol, poured that into an old peanut butter jar and I soak the blocks in that over night. Then a good scrubbing with a nylon brush and some dish detergent generally does the trick. If the problem is not oil/grease, then I would assume one of two things:

a) your mould isn't hot enough, or
b) your flow rate is too low

A lot of the bigger moulds cast better from a ladle than from a bottom pour. You shouldn't be getting any problems due to your alloy, that's pleny of tin. I'd try some more, try pre-heating your blocks by putting a corner of them (closed of course) into your melt. I really think that you have one of those 'character' moulds, with a little experimentation you'll find out what it 'likes'. Hope this helps.

-Klaus

[Sundogg1911]

Bob58 Welcome,
I would not suggest pouring in between the cavitys. You are bound to get inclusions from the alloy not going into each cavity as a steady stream. I would pour on the beveled part of the sprue plate for each hole one at a time. you don't want the stream to stop and start in either cavity, and I would think that would happin pouring the alloy in between the two. You can control the pour rate by how far you lift the handle on the Lee pots. After a while it will come naturally. The H&G moulds have this cut in the sprue plate, but it's designed to get a solid one piece cut from the sprue without much alloy dripping down the sides of the mould, and for that reason I do like that design.
Are you preheating your mold? are you absolutly sure there is no oil in the cavitys? You could try adding some tin from bar solder, but you don't need much. any more than 2% tin is just wasting money. I have had a few molds that have dropped over 100 projectiles before getting a nice one. (one was a new Lyman, and one was a new RCBS) I don't think that smoking the cavitys will help the bullets fill out any better but it can make them drop from the mold a little easier.
I've never found leaving bullets in the mold after casting to do anything but make the molds heavier. I never spray them with any oil for storage,. I keep my moulds in a water tight ammo can with a Dessicant bag to keep out moisture, you can also spray the mold block with "drop out" or any type of mold prep spray. I really don't see any need for this as long as you store the mold block in a dry water tight container. I'm not sure what you mean by installing the handles backwards. Do you have to strike the sprueplate towards the handles instead of away? I don't see how that would be any better or easier, but if it works for you, I don't see how it could hurt. I think I would end up cracking myself in the knuckles with a wooden dowel rod. Let us know how your second casting session goes! Good luck

[Pilgrim]

Before you dink around with the mould, try pouring slowly. It usually takes some 4 or 5 seconds or so for me to fill out a typical .45 pistol mould cavity. After you've tried the stuff listed above, and it still won't fill out, then get a pointed tool (stylus, protractor pointed thingy, or anything like that. I've even used a sharp knife blade) and VERY (VERY!) carefully scribe along the vent lines. Particularly look at the edges of the cavities as sometimes there is a small machining spur left as a burr. Be particularly careful you scribe the vent lines on the parts of the cavities that aren't filling properly. Remove all of the burrs, and after you have scribed the vent lines to be sure they are open, try the mould again. Upon occasion, I've had to work on the vent lines 2 or 3 times to get the mould "all fixed up". A magnifying glass under a good light will help you find the burrs if there are any. Least ways that's what I've been told. Either my eyes are too bad or my magnifying glass is NFG cause it doesn't work for me, but YMMV. Finally, if all else has failed, using a sharpening stone, slightly bevel the upper mould edges (under the sprue plate). This provides an additional vent path and at times really seems to make a difference.

It also helps if you ladle pour. I have a mould that the manufacturer ladle poured to test it and got perfect boolits. I use a bottom pour pot and couldn't get boolits worth spit. I opened the vent lines a bit (the manufacturer said "don't do that!") and now it pours just fine for me. You sometimes have to take risks to get things running the way you want them to. That particular mould was $110+ if I remember correctly.

2nd Subject...I've had sprue plates that had the groove cut between mould cavities. I've never had any luck making them work, and don't know anybody who has. The problem is I can't get a steady pour into all of the cavities and one will fill OK and the other will be partial filled with voids. I always have to go back to filling each cavity separately to get good boolits. No big deal as I use a platform or other mould support to hold the mould in place under the pot and then slide the mould cavity to cavity without stopping the lead stream. Again YMMV. FWIW...Good luck and have fun SAFELY...Pilgrim

[Buckshot]

............Bob58, hello and welcome to the board.

" It seemed to work better to not pour directly into the cavity (which I have read is better anyway.)"
Sometimes yes, sometimes, no :-). Depends upon the flow rate, the 'busy-ness' of the cavity design, your alloy fluidity , and just the simple cussidness of the mould

"First question - can I, very carefully using a Dremel tool, remove some sprue plate material between the two cavities, to form a channel connecting them? I want to do this so that I can pour half way between the two cavities, and have the lead flow into both cavities simultaneously".
With the thinness of the Lyman sprueplate it isn't going to be any benefit to you. Just prolly be messy. Takes a pretty thick spreuplate to form a proper trough of much use

"Next question - even after many casts, I still couldn't get the narrow driving bands to fill out completely. Bases and noses were generally filled completely" though.
Could be the mould was: not hot enough, poorly vented in those areas, not really clean. Could be the alloy wasn't: hot enough, fluid enough, delivered correctly. Re-clean the cavities. I use carb cleaner. Try smoking the cavities lightly with a butane lighter.

The way I start with a new mould (until I get it figured out) is to float the blocks on top of the melt when it's up to temp. When lead quits sticking to the blocks it's hot enough. Fill the mould and then you'll have to wait some time for the sprues to set up, as the blocks are almost as hot as the alloy. Cast at a comfortable tempo as the sprue cooling allows.

Your first boolits from the superheated blocks will have a definate crystaline structure ont he surface that looks like electro plated galvanization. This will disappear as the blocks cool. If after awhile of casting at a comfortable steady rate the boolits begin to show rounded features, the blocks are too cool. Either increase your casting speed or increase the alloy temp.

"The alloy that I am using I purchased new as "Lyman #2", with the specs showing 2% lead, 6% antimony, and the rest lead. Is this too little tin to fill out the driving bands?"
That's not Lyman #2. That's Taracorp Magnum or a similar mix of 1 lead and 1 lino. Lyman #2 is 5 - 5 - 90. Five percent tin is way more then necessary and unduely expensive. Generally WW's cast well, and they're maybe 1/2% or so tin. Adding 1% may help but much more is just a waste. That is, unless your uncle owns a tin mine someplace?

"Altogether, I cast close to 70 bullets, thinking that this would be sufficient for "breaking the mold in." Is this correct, or should I try several more "trial casts" before worrying about bullet fillout?"
As above. Clean VERY well, smoke the cavities and float the blocks on the melt. That'll break those scudders in.

"Bullets toward the end of the session were quite round (never saw more than 0.5 thousandths out of round, and most were nearly perfectly round."
That's a good set of blocks. You're lucky.

"Thought of another question. When I finished, I left the last two bullets cast in the mold. Without opening the modl, I then sprayed the mold with Shooter's Choice Rust Prevent. Is this a good procedure for storage?"
The Shooters Choice is okay, but leaving cast boolits in the cavities is an old wives tale. I use VPI chips in the mould boxes and forgo any oil. I'm in So. California so it's pretty dry anyway.

What do you wear for your good luck casting uniform? I've found that a campaign hat, Hawaiian shirt, jock strap and hurache sandles works for me. Deputy Al prefers a beanie with a propeller on top. The Bullwinkle the Moose hat just wasn't doing it for him.

Finally, as this board is more of a family then a collection of members, there is a burning desire evidenced over time by individuals about the relative merits of (in no particular order); Beer, cats, having the wife/girlfriend discuss new drapes while you're casting, sheep and dogs.

................Buckshot

[leftiye]

Bob, I (and I think most of us) pour one cavity at a time. I am even trying to figure out how to keep the sprue puddle from flowing from one cavity into the next. The one that gets the accidental pour is never good enough. I'm even thinking of building a dam between cavities. FWIW

Do you overfill the cavities, and have a puddle that is liquid sitting on top of the sprue plate? Ya should! If it freezes right away, your mold is not hot enough. If you can't keep the mold hot enough by just casting (being new, you might be a little slow), get a single burner hotplate to set it on when you set the mold down. It can be adjusted to keep the mold at a good (correct) temperature.

Otherwise, I think you're caught between "New caster" and "new mold." It's probably all about mold cavity surfaces not being seasoned. All of the above comments about cleaning your mold are right on. Don't oil it between uses. Keep it in an air tight container with dessicant. After a few uses the cavity surfaces will "season" (reads oxidize). I've blued a lot of mine. Time at high temps does the same thing, oxides (not rust, not scale, just oxide, it's like blueing) build up on all of the surfaces of the mold.

If the cavities are CLEAN (scrub them with a bronze pistol bore brush after degreasing, use brake cleaner or carb cleaner to degrease, no oil, nada, never), then a THIN coat of graphite is good. It actually insulates the poured lead from the mold and it (the lead) acts like it is hotter. Too much, and you'll have to clean IT out. Easy way is to get a #2 pencil and write all over it until you get it all coated (cavities, top of mold, and bottom of sprue plate. I think NEI makes a graphite mold prep still which I've used. Just swab the aforementioned surfaces with a Q-tip and you're good to go. Then there will still be frustration with fiddling with things until you find the right technique, temp etc. for a while. Good luck, have fun, Ted

[buck1]

Welcome!!
All good advice! You may try letting the lead pour a little bit too long when filling the mold. this keeps it liquid a bit longer and helps with fill out. And also casting a bit faster will get your blocks hotter for better fill out.
I cast for a week before I got any useable boolits the first time. Now its cake!!
You got to get a feel for it , and then ask lots of questions when you hit a snag.
PS
automotive break clean is a good and cheep degreaser.
It sounds like your just running your mold a little too cool.
FWIW..................................Buck

[Mk42gunner]

What do you wear for your good luck casting uniform? I've found that a campaign hat, Hawaiian shirt, jock strap and hurache sandles works for me. Deputy Al prefers a beanie with a propeller on top. The Bullwinkle the Moose hat just wasn't doing it for him.

Geez Buckshot there are not just one but two pictures I didn't need in my mind tonight, after a long day fishing.:roll:


Robert

[Sundogg1911]

Buckshot.......everyone knows casting has nothing to do with what you're wearing. It's all about the music that's playing. If you're casting for pistol, Hard rock is best. Black powder always works best with country or southern rock. Front Stuffer.....blues (but everyone already knows that!) ;-) i'f you're listening to Hip Hop, or Rap....
you might as well quit......it's like adding zinc to the mix, it just wont work! :roll:

[Buckshot]

Geez Buckshot there are not just one but two pictures I didn't need in my mind tonight, after a long day fishing.:roll:


Robert

............Huh!? I'm svelt, dude. Svelt! :-) Ole Al is a bit raggedy around the edges though.

Sundogg1911, you DO have a point there. I remember how my buddies '64 Bug would inch up from 72 mph to almost 75 when Steppenwolf came on the radio.

..............Buckshot

[HORNET]

Bob58,
Welcome to the asylum for the lead addicted. lots of good knowledge here and friendly people that will gladly help lead you astray and learn to live on ramen noodles to feed new bad habits.[smilie=1: [smilie=1:
Despite Buckshot's current claims as to casting costume ( as I recall, last year he claimed a lime-green thong), suggested casting clothing tends toward fairly full coverage with primarily cotton clothing lest you get a suprise visit from the tinsel fairy.:(
Sundogg1911, Gotta disagree. The most appropriate tunes for casting have got to be ........wait for it........Heavy Metal.:roll:

[Sundogg1911]

Hornet,
That makes perfect sense. I've been listening to Black Sabbath while casting for .45 ACP, and they've been coming out a little.....ahem......heavy![smilie=1:

[dromia]

The only band for casting music is surely Led Zepplin. [smilie=1: