Lee liquid alox question

[336A]

Today I got a chance to hit the range with my Ruger BH in .41 mag. I shot some handloads that I made up several years ago for my S&W M58. When I inherited that revolver I loaded up some of Lead Heads 215gr SWC over 8.0gr of Unique. The ammo was very accurate from the M58 but it leaded somewhat at the the throat.

So the next batch of ammo I made up I lubed the bullets with Lee liquid alox. These rounds sat around for quite awhile so I decided to give em' a whirl today and see what happened. The ammo shot great and the empty cases would fall out of the chambers for the most part when the revolver was held vertical. Low and behold 44 rounds later there was nothing left behind, except maybe 3 little flecks and the rest was powder residue.

Know I'm trying to figure out whether or not I want to mess around and lube all my bullets with this stuff or not. What do your folks opinion on this topic?

Oh BTW it must be qualificatoin time or close to it for the local PD here. There were two LEO on the range with me shooting too. I kept getting what I believe were looks of amazement as at 10yd I had a but one big hole for a group:lol: The female LEO would eye my target know and then as I brought it back for inspection;-) I wasn't very impressed with their marksmanship at all however.

[rbertalotto]

I use Lee Alox and Rooster Lube on all my revolver and pistol loads. No leading what so ever.

I just recently got a Star lubrisizer for Black Powder cartidges where lots of lube really helps.

And I still pan lube all of my 45-70 big bullets.

But for extreme high quantity shooting (Cowboy Action, IPSA, etc) You can't beat the tumble lubes.

[stubshaft]

There is nothing wrong with using the Lee lube. There are a number of threads on how it is used by others, for myself I just cut it with mineral spirits and thumble them in an old tupperware container the dump them onto newspapers to dry.

*I know what you mean about LEO quals. They moved the rookie quals to wednesday so no one would see how badly they shot. Most of them flinched so bad that only 25% of the shots fired ever reached 50 yds.

[mooman76]

Some people like it, some don't. I use it and I also you my Lyman 450 as it suits me. You might want to give the 45/45/10 mix a try. I haven't shoot any yet but they are little less messy and suppose to be just as good. That's 45 allox 45 Johnson past way and dilute 10% with mineral spirits.

[subsonic]

I use it because it is convenient, but it definitely has some drawbacks.

My number one gripe is that my seating die gets LLA boogers built up in it and not only seats deeper as I load, but also smears LLA on the outside of the cases. When fired, the chambers pick this up and can cause very sticky extraction until you swab with mineral spirits on a patch/brush.

i have been told to go lighter with the LLA, but it only extends the number of rounds it takes before this happens and sometimes I get a little leading.

I plan to try the 45/45/10 with JPW, as it's supposed to be less sticky.

Tumbling in Motor Mica is another answer.

[Potsy]

I've only used it once, and I was impressed.
I sized some Ranch Dog .460-350's down to .452 which pretty well made the lube grooves disappear. I ran them through my Lyman 450 and applied what little 50/50 they'd take (which wasn't much) and wiped on 2 coats of LLA. Then seated them over 18.0 grn. 296 for dead on 1,000fps out of my Bisley.
I only ran a 1/2 dozen of them, they hit terribly high vs. my sight in with 270-SAA's, but they hit close together.
When I check the bore, expecting to see a mess, it was cleaner than when I had started shooting that morning.
I left the range with a much higher opinion of LLA and the urge (though I've not had time) to re-visit that load in greater volume.

[Love Life]

LLA is good stuff. I used it cut 50/50 with mineral spirits to dip lube the Lee 452-250-RF for use in the 454 Casull over a spooky amount of 2400. It did it's job exceptionally well.

I use it sometimes to lube large batches of boolits when I don't feel like running them through a lub sizer.

Only complaint I have is the same as above with it gunking up my seating die. Also I wipe all my loaded rounds with a solvent soaked rag to remove any excess LLA from the boolit nose or else they will collect evey piece if lint within a 20 mile radius.

[336A]

Well I figured that it certainly didn't hurt anything yet actually helped instead. So I just lubed up the rest of the bullets I have left from Lead Head and loaded up the fired cases. IIRC Lead heads bullets are 22BHN and I got a batch of new bullets from these folks http://shop.snscasting.com/ which are in the range of most commercial bullets with a BHN around 17-18.

Do you folks think that these bullets will possibly lead as well when loaded over 8.5gr of Unique? Or should I just put LLA on them anyway? After these are gone I'll be getting these as long as their available http://www.rimrockbullets.net/catalog/standard-hard-cast-lead-bullets-c-7/41-215-gr-swc-per-500-p-140

I truly wish I knew what I know now about cast bullets before I bought these dang Lead Heads, and I also wish I found those Rim Rock bullets before placing my last order[smilie=b:

[DrCaveman]

So it looks like quite a few of you are using LLA for non-TL designated boolits. Is there any different protocol? As in, do you apply more, since the grooves are deeper for non TL molds? I am just now drying a batch of lee 358-105 swc, tumbled. There is visible lube in about 50% of the grooves, but I am not sure this matters at all.

The boolits overall are the nice light brown that I am used to seeing on tumble-lubed boolits. I try to go light with the LLA, but these grooves are making me think twice.

I also am drying a batch of Lyman 358430 boolits, 195 gr. These are destined for much higher pressures, so I laid on a bit more of the LLA.

Does this sound reasonable? I have yet to cut the LLA with any thinners, but may go the 45/45/10 route soon (LLA/JPW/mineral spirits). Comparisons?

[tacklebury]

If I'm shooting BP loads I use Lee Liquid alox followed by a pan lube with spg lube. Otherwise just alox works well or alox over std. lubes

[Love Life]

So it looks like quite a few of you are using LLA for non-TL designated boolits. Is there any different protocol? As in, do you apply more, since the grooves are deeper for non TL molds? I am just now drying a batch of lee 358-105 swc, tumbled. There is visible lube in about 50% of the grooves, but I am not sure this matters at all.

The boolits overall are the nice light brown that I am used to seeing on tumble-lubed boolits. I try to go light with the LLA, but these grooves are making me think twice.

I also am drying a batch of Lyman 358430 boolits, 195 gr. These are destined for much higher pressures, so I laid on a bit more of the LLA.

Does this sound reasonable? I have yet to cut the LLA with any thinners, but may go the 45/45/10 route soon (LLA/JPW/mineral spirits). Comparisons?

Treat them the same as tumble lube design boolits. The only reason I dip lubed mine was to have clean noses when reloading, and I only did this for the 454.

Everything else I tumble lube, both TL and conventional designs, get the same treatment.

[hardy]

Started out with straight LLA & Lee T/L boolit in a S&W 57,a little tacky,so cut it 50%,.Both performed well.Then discovered JPW.Played about with different mixes & ended up using a 50/50 JPW/LLA combo.Very happy with the results.Years ago I bought some really old 41 cal 210 Commercial cast ,looked pretty sad. Tumbled in LLA,worked Great! Have Fun.

[wellfedirishman]

I love JPW/LLA lube. It is clean and not sticky or tacky, and leaves the bores shiny. I have never had any leading problems with it with velocities up to 1500 fps (my maximum).

[Whiterabbit]

Know I'm trying to figure out whether or not I want to mess around and lube all my bullets with this stuff or not. What do your folks opinion on this topic?


They smoke like crazy in my revolver and lead. Which is crappy because I would LOVE to tumble lube. So convenient compared to lubrisizing.

I DO however tumble lube my rifle rounds because they don't smoke or lead.

So my opinion? try EVERYTHING tumble lubed. You never know, it might work.

[44man]

I HATE the stuff, it always leads my bores but the most important to me is accuracy. Side by side tests with all lubes taught me a lot. Groups can be cut in half or more just by changing the lube.
336A made a good point though about LEO's.
I had a big, tough guy here that worked White House security. Very important acting. At 10 yards he could not keep rounds on paper. My friend Pete was there and asked to shoot the Glock, he proceeded to punch out the center while I was shooting my cannons at 100 yards and hitting tiny targets.
The guy never came back. :-P
My take is that 336A is a GOOD SHOT but I would not claim the lube did it! :holysheep

[Judan_454]

Ive used lee tumble lubed lee cast bullets for years had very good accuracy with it. Shot a 36 of 40 with a lee 150 grain FN .308 tumble lube bullet out of a 30-30 contender in a imhsa match hit 9 out 10 rams at 200 meters. I think the only complaint I got about it is that it smelled like burnt tires. LOL.

[saz]

I dip lube most of the time I use it jsut to keep the noses clean.
I use the 45/45/10 and it is my go to lube.
If it works, use it. Try to warm up the ALOX then dip them.
It goes pretty fast once you find a rhythm.

[tek4260]

I guess I am an overachiever because I conventionally lube an tumble in Alox on my really heavy loads. Even do it to my GC boolits. I figure it is insurance against leading especially on Lee boolits with their shallow lube grooves.

[tek4260]

Got threatened with a tarring and feathering on another forum when I posted this on another forums casting section :)

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm35/tk3945/guns2/DSCN0250.jpg

[subsonic]

For a lot of police, the handgun is just another tool on the belt. Maybe less important than the radio and cuffs.

There are some that like guns though. And a few of them take marksmanship seriously.

[williamwaco]

After 50 years with Lyman 50/50 I have converted completely to LLA.

It is not better than the Lubrisizer. It is messier than the Lubrisizer but it is SO MUCH faster and less trouble and every bit as effective.

You can see my testing resultw with 61 loads using 17 different bullets here.

http://www.reloadingtips.com/pages/exp_111201a_lla_test.htm

( Including the failures )

[1bluehorse]

Didn't work for me. Accuracy was okay, leaded badly. Admittedly I didn't work with it very much, just tried a couple different loads and bullets but I get much better results with my lubrasizer. It is fast and easy though......but I ain't changin..

[rintinglen]

I have used LLA up to 2300 fps out of a rifle, It is great. The only thing I don't use it for is when I am trying for extreme accuracy, then I use Javelina 50/50. For all my handgun stuff, I use the Recluse formula now, 45% LLA, 45% Johnsons Paste Wax, and 10% mineral spirits. In an old pan over mild heat, melt 1/4 of a can of JPW, add a 4oz. bottle of LLA, and stir gently heating the mixture just until it starts to smoke. Remove from heat and add an ounce or so of mineral spirits, stir it well and pour it into an empty bottle. I use an old 12 oz hand soap bottle but anything you can put a lid on will work. I find the Recluse formula works as well as the LLA and dries much faster.

[Hammerhead]

I use LLA quite a bit in .357 and .45 Colt.
In my single shot .45 Colt carbine I butter the bore lightly with LLA and let it dry. Combined with LLA coated bullets my bore doesn't seem to get dirty at all.
I can go a lot longer without cleaning in my .357 revolver as well.

[Bullet Caster]

I, for one, am sold on the Recluse's formula 45/45/10. So far it's not leaded my .45's and 9mm. The lube is easy to make and easy to use. I modified the formula one step further by mixing the 45/45/10 equally with bees wax and use this to ranch dip my rifle boolits. Handgun boolits always get tumble lubed not matter what design they happen to be. Only the 9mm boolit mould I have is the tumble lube design. My rifle (M1 Garand) does not lead either with this lube. So I figure, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. BC

[Casper29]

I have used aloft and still have 7 bottles to use up, the only complaint is that I find that it smokes a little more you then my lubisizer and the smell takes some getting use to.

[white eagle]

I have been using more and more as time goes by

[41mag]

While I admit I haven't been casting my own for very long I did quite a bit of research before I started out early last year. I looked at the different options for lube and sizing, and based my decision to TL on the fact I don't have much area to plant a lube-sizer on my bench, and also not knowing for sure just how well things were going to work out with my initial venture off into this, I wanted to keep things on the cheaper side.

This said I dove into it head first with Lee molds and sizing dies. I poured up my boolits, tumble lubed them, using way too much, sized them, and lubed them again.

At first I wasn't all that impressed with the process to be totally honest, but after finding my loads shot and shot well, I mixed up some of the Recluse formula, reduced the amount a little at a time, until now I am perfectly happy with the process.

I have had little to no leading and what I did experience was right at the start with my initial 5 rounds. Since then I have had a few flakes here and there, but nothing I have been concerned with in the least. I have run both plain based and GC'ed boolits up to 1500fps + from a couple of different revolvers with several different types with equal performance.

While I cannot say that I will never own a lubrisizer, for the time being I am totally satisfied with my results. I have pan lubed a couple of different boolits using both some Felix lube and some Carnuba Red, simply to see how much if any differences it made with my group sizes. As mentioned the lube can and does make a difference, but from most of my limited testing, the LLA or similar lube has shown to be, so far, as accurate as the others.

I would also add that since I switched over to the Recluse mix, that I have not had much if any issue of a build up in my seating plug, or sizing die. While there is always going to be some noted, it seems to simply get a base coat and stop there.