New Lee Mold Lube Question...

[sharpshooter81]

Just got my new .459-405gr-HB mold today....I cleaned the cavity out with a light alcohol solution and wiped it down with soap and water. The Lee instructions say to smoke the cavity with a butane lighter (which I have done, until the cavity turned black)....It also says to lube the "V" grooves and sprue plate bushing with alox bullet lube....problem is....I DONT HAVE ANY BULLET LUBE YET!!....This is my first mold, and I was going to wait till I casted a few before I decided on a lube....Is there anything else that would work for mold lube? ...I'm guessing it wouldnt take much to lube......Thanks in advance for all opinions and input!!

[Dale53]

Lee one or two cavity moulds do require lube be LIGHTLY applied to the "V" grooves. However, Alox bullet lube (Lee recommends it) is a TERRIBLE choice. The alox lube burns on and builds up eventually rendering the mould useless until it is removed. It is VERY hard to remove that burned on material.

We heartily recommend the use of Bullshop's Sprue Plate Lube (it comes with instructions). It does NOT burn on and works beautifully. The problem is the supplier is in Alaska and you can only get it by mail order (I ordered several bottles and gave to friends to reduce shipping cost of a single bottle).

Others here, have recommended synthetic two stroke oil as a substitute for Bullshop Sprue Plate Lube. I have not tried it but it would be worth a try.

Get the mould up to temperature and casting well. Fill the mould, cut the sprue but DO NOT OPEN THE MOULD. Take a q-tip and apply a very small amount of lube to the "v" ways, the top of the mould (the bullet will keep it out of the cavity), bottom of sprue plate and top of sprue plate. Immediately wipe off top of mould with clean end of q-tip, wipe off both sides of sprue plate but leave the lube on the "V" ways.

This will leave just a film on the mould and sprue plate (all that is needed). That will last, typically, for an entire casting session. I use multi-cavity moulds and cast at least one RCBS pot of metal a session (20+ lbs of finished bullets).

FWIW
Dale53

[sharpshooter81]

would a very light light coating of high temp anti seize work??? I have a bunch of that!!

[geargnasher]

Throw the Lee instructions away and forget you ever read them.

Get some full-synthetic two-cycle premix oil, or Bullplate sprue lube formula from the Bullshop.

Boil the mould blocks and sprue plate in distilled water/detergent solution and rinse.

Wet half the tip of a Q-tip in the oil and wipe the underside of the sprue plate, alignment wedges and pins, and go around the sprue plate pivot bolt head/washer to squeeze some in there.

Take the dry end of the Q-tip and go over everything again to wipe off excess so it doesn't migrate to the cavities when the mould is hot. You can also follow the Bullplate instructions for applying hot with the cavities filled, but an initial application on a cold mould will help prevent mould damage from the beginning.

Gear

[462]

"Throw the Lee instructions away and forget you ever read them."

Lee's mould instructions are of use only to the paper recycler.

Sharpshooter81:
Read the Leementing stickies. If you follow the steps presented, your Lee mould will perform much better and you won't experience as much frustration. However, you may still have to give it some additional TLC to get it to its optimum casting ability.

[41 mag fan]

"Throw the Lee instructions away and forget you ever read them."

Lee's mould instructions are of use only to the paper recycler.

Sharpshooter81:
Read the Leementing stickies. If you follow the steps presented, your Lee mould will perform much better and you won't experience as much frustration. However, you may still have to give it some additional TLC to get it to its optimum casting ability.

Makes a good firestarter in the woodburner.

[stubshaft]

The only thing you should smoke is the Lee instruction sheet. Clean cavities with the proper temp alloy at the right temp will cast the best boolits.

[MT Gianni]

Smoking a mold allows the carbon soot to act somewhat as a lubricant. It also reduces bullet diameter. You don't need either with a good lube as has been mentioned.

[MikeS]

If you want to know how to properly lube your Lee 2 cavity mould (or any mould for that matter) checkout the sticky in the lube forum I posted with a picture of the instructions that come with a mould lube that's very similar to BullPlate. The instructions come from a mould lube that's sold by a guy on eBay, and I've use it, as well as BullPlate, and the sample of lube that comes with Mihec moulds, and find that all three work the same. Here's the link to the post in the lube forum:

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=137982

[Alan in Vermont]

Smoking a mold allows the carbon soot to act somewhat as a lubricant. It also reduces bullet diameter. You don't need either with a good lube as has been mentioned.

You must have one very good micrometer. I'm not sure what other issues there might be with smoking a mold but I have a hard time believing that the smoke film in the cavity can reduce bullet diameter enough to matter.

I've put soot on a lot of molds and never saw anything bad come of it. I've even smoked with a candle and never had any bad effects from (possible) contamination by petroleum residue in the candle soot.

[Ben]

Alan in Vermont

Smoking of a mold is an issue that raises its head here on the forum from time to time. I'm not for or against it.

If I can clean a mold properly and get it to fill out and make nice bullets without smoking it, I will.

Yesterday, I ran about 200 ea. Loverins , 311466. Once the mold was clean it offered nice sharp looking bullets with all bands filled out sharply with no smoking of the mold.

Occasionally after I KNOW that a mold is clean, it continues to be stubborn about fill out. I'll smoke it and it will often offer a nice bullet immediately. As to reduced diamater, I can't say, I've been unable with my 3 mikes to determine that a smoked mold delivers a smaller dia. bullet.

Ben

[John Boy]

Is there anything else that would work for mold lube?
I have found paraffin to be the best mold lubricant. It is the one and only lube that does not burn and leave a varnish in the mold. In addition, swing the sprue plate away from the mold and put some paraffin in the sprue hole and on top of the plate. When you cut the sprue, the puddle will fall away from the plate effortlessly

Also, a clean mold cavity with nothing used to smoke it will cast the best bullets. Clean with hot soapy water and a tooth brush, dry and then spray with brake cleaner. Let it dry, heat the mold and your good to go

[beagle]

Back when we were in the moly craze, felix developed a mould treatment method that works awfully good. He sprayed the mould cavities with spray mly when the mould was warm and allow the coating to dry. Then he went in with a soft pine stick and burnished the mould cavity/cavities with it which removed all of the excess moly coating. This filled all of the minute cavities and flaws in the mould. Barring any burs, the mould then drops easity and there's no need for mould release. I did some years ago and they have never needed to be treated again.

I also sprayed the outside and didn't clean that. I have never had rusting problems with these moulds so treated./beagle

[John Boy]

Then he went in with a soft pine stick and burnished the mould cavity/cavities with it which removed all of the excess moly coating. This filled all of the minute cavities and flaws in the mould. Barring any burs, the mould then drops easity and there's no need for mould release. Add on to Beagle's post:
* Cotton swab - bluing remover - swab the complete inside of the mold - rinse in cold water
* Do this 2 times
* Then swab the cavity only 3x with cold blue
The molecular pockets in the metal will be filled with the bluing and really nice bullets are produced. Also, IMHO, with clean molds, no bullet release of any kind is needed to cast

[DrCaveman]

What's the prob with Lee instructions? Clean mold blocks. Bring mold up in temp. Lube the alignment pieces. Keep lube out of cavities. "smoke" cavities with butane lighter. Lightly lube between sprue plate & blocks.

Boom boom cast. Then boom boom. Am others reading too much into the instructions, or am I reading too little?

I figured this was SOP for almost all molds, with the huge exception that one needed to coat the entire block with oil after a session if using non-aluminum molds.

Geargnasher, I do appreciate the creativity & ingenuity, but may I respectfully ask what is the difference in outcome?

[DrCaveman]

John boy, I am curious what difference you find in brake-cleaner prepped molds vs smoked molds. Is it as simple as: the boolits drop out easier? No whacking needed, ever?

Frankly, if I didn't give my mold blocks one good whack it would mess up my rhythm considerably. Oh well, growing pains.

[462]

Doc,
Smoking a mould is nothing more than a dubious method of getting boolits to drop from a recalcitrant mould, or one that is lacking in manufacturing quality control. Rather than masking the cause(s), why not take the time to determine exactly what is wrong and correct it? Boolits from a properly prepared mould will drop either as soon as the mould is opened, or with nothing more than a gentle love tap on the handle hinge.

Another key is maintaining the mould as its optimum operating temperature.

[geargnasher]

What's the prob with Lee instructions? Clean mold blocks. Bring mold up in temp. Lube the alignment pieces. Keep lube out of cavities. "smoke" cavities with butane lighter. Lightly lube between sprue plate & blocks.

Boom boom cast. Then boom boom. Am others reading too much into the instructions, or am I reading too little?

I figured this was SOP for almost all molds, with the huge exception that one needed to coat the entire block with oil after a session if using non-aluminum molds.

Geargnasher, I do appreciate the creativity & ingenuity, but may I respectfully ask what is the difference in outcome?

Take one of your "known good" moulds, prepare it the way you like, and sit down and run 100 boolits through it. When they cool, cull them visually. Then weigh the remainder, cull those + or - 1/2% of the mean weight. Measure the driving bands in two directions of those which remain, culling those that are + or - half a thousandth from the mean. Tell me how many boolits you end up with. If it's fewer than 95, try it my way.

Gear

[DrCaveman]

Ok, well I already know i miss that mark, being that I just cast about 550 visual keepers out of about 600. The batches that I weighed varied by 2-3 grains +/- target weight, and I culled those on the extreme ends. I do not trust the large scale much, however, and when I re-weigh the boolits they more often than not come out at 158 on the dot. Among other things, I need to get a new, reliable scale.

Next, my calipers cost me $30. They worked great for all my reloading needs but maybe they are not up to snuff for casting tolerances.

Rest assured I will heed your advice, and give your method a try. I have three Lee molds due to arrive this week. I may still need more experience to appreciate the difference, but I am glad to add another technique to my arsenal.