First black powder cartridge loading attempt

[awaveritt]

Range Report:
Hey guys, I'm bumping this thread to report on the results of my first 38 Special BP cartridge loading experience. Took Dale53's advice and made some Buck Emmerts lube (50%beeswax, 40%Crisco, and 10%lanolin) and pan-lubed 200 boolits cast from the Lee 158 RNFP mold. Loaded 18 grains of Goex FFFg. Used CCI magnum primers in the first 100 and CCI standard primers in the 2nd hundred. Took em' to the CAS match last weekend. What fun! Lots of smoke, stinks real good to boot. Both vaqueros and the Marlin 1894 had no trouble digesting the rounds and the fouling remained soft throughout the day. All three guns functioned flawlessly throughout the match. Plenty accurate, only one miss out of 120 rounds (can't remember whether with rifle or revolver). Even connected on a gong at 80 yards, shooting offhand without a chance to sight-in. Btw, didn't seem to note any difference between magnum and standard primer loads.

But the most joyous discovery was when I got home. Plenty of soft fouling but absolutely NO leading in either Vaquero or the Marlin. This is my first time to pan-lube. Since I began casting a couple years back, the only method of lube I'd tried was LLA and Alox/JPW mix. That method has proven to be frustrating in my smokeless loads, with leading occurring in almost all of my revolvers and marlin carbine loads.

But not with Emmerts in the BP loads! Looking forwarding to trying Emmert's lube in my smokeless loads. Meanwhile, I think I've become a BP convert for all my cowboy shooting.

Thanks for all who chimed in with advice. This is a great forum.

Constable


Hey folks, I've decided to load a box or two of 38 Special cartridges with Goex fffg. Looks like about 16 to 17.5 grains to fill er up. I've got a couple of questions: 1) the only suitable boolits I have at the moment are Lee .358 RNFP but they're sized and lubed with Alox. Will this stuff contribute to fowling?
2) These boolits are 60/40 WW/pure Pb. Should I load these babies or cast up a fresh batch using pure pb and some other lube?

Any other advice greatly appreciated. These will be used in two vaqueros and an Marlin 1894 at a CAS match.

[tacklebury]

I think you will be ok, although with that lube, your fouling will be harder and you will need to clean it more. What I did when I was first playing with pre-lubed bullets was use Lee Liquid alox and coat the bullet with it after I'd heated them in an oven on a cookie sheet with wax paper to catch the running lube. Once they were alox'd I pan lubed them with SPG lube, which is a good bp lube to promote soft fouling.

[John Boy]

#1: If you don't want to pan lube may want to consider rolling the bullets with liquid Rooster Jacket ... http://www.midwayusa.com/product/746916/rooster-jacket-waterproof-bullet-film-lube-and-paper-patch-lube-16-oz
#2: Your 60/40 mix will yield a Bhn 11 alloy that a tad softer than 1:10. Your OK with the alloy

[Dale53]

awaveritt;

I have loaded and shot thousands of black powder rounds in my .45 Colt Bisley Vaquero with accuracy and match success.

It is best to use all of the same brand of cases (case capacity varies between brands).

Load the black powder of your choice (Goex 2f gives less recoil than 3F - Swiss 3f gives more velocity than an equivalent amount of Goex while Pyrodex gives about the same velocity as 3F Goex, as I remember).

You should fill the case with black powder to the point that your bullet of choice will compress the
powder about 1/16". That much compression will work well but any more may damage a soft bullet. In the .38 Special you'll find that somewhere close to 19 grains will be about right (but let the VOLUME be your guide not some particular number of grains). Once you establish how much it takes for 1/16" compression, then you can check weigh the grains to maintain consistent VOLUME.

You DEFINITELY should use NOTHING but a good black powder lubricant. SPG is the gold standard, but I used home mixed Emmert's with equal results (Emmerts is 50% pure natural beeswax, 40% Crisco (original), and 10% Canola Oil). I later modified the Emmerts by dropping the Canola Oil and replacing it with Anhydrous Lanolin (the lube doesn't dry out in long term storage and may shoot just a bit better from my tests).

I had excellent results by pan lubing but set my Lyman luber up for Emmert's only and used that. My bullet of choice was a Lyman home cast bullet 452664 (it has a single LARGE grease groove) and the alloy was 30/1 lead/tin. Your suggested alloy should work fine, also. Alloy is not critical as long as it is not too hard.

Since you are loading .38 Special I suggest a bullet with a single large grease groove lubed as suggested and sized to .358". There are any number of bullets that will work well. The Lyman 358665 is their Cowboy bullet and the .38 counterpart to the .45 Cowboy bullet I use. It has a large grease groove which is VERY important.

One suggestion further - the cylinder pin should be well lubed to avoid or at least limit fouling problems. I have used STP oil treatment but my latest lube is Mobil 1 sythetic (red lube). YOu can pick up a grease gun tube of this at your auto parts store.

My revolver will allow me to shoot about 70 shots before cleaning with out losing accuracy or having the cylinder tie up. Understand this depends on YOUR Revolver. Some revolvers will tie up quickly and some will allow you to shoot almost indefinitely (tolerances seem to play a part).

Use a good black powder solvent and clean up will be quick and effective. I use "Friendship Speed Juice" (this is a home mix: one pint each of Murphy's Oil Soap, Rubbing Alcohol, and Hydrogen Peroxide (available at your local drug store and super market). This should be kept in the dark bottle that Peroxide comes in for range use (light damages the peroxide) and keep the rest in a dark place at home.

After cleaning with Speed Juice (it absolutely EATS black powder fouling) understand it leaves your revolver with NO protection. Follow up immediately with a good gun oil. I use Ed's Red Home Mix as it will thoroughly protect the metal inside and out. I always clean at the range so I have nothing to do after I arrive home tired after a day at the range. This is NOT something you let go until the next day or so.

One further thing (lots of one further things:veryconfu), your cases need to be attended to immediately after firing as possible. I decap at the range, drop in a milk jug filled 3/4ths full of water with a couple of squirts of Dawn Dishwashing liquid in it. By the time you get home, you can shake the jug up and down a few times, pour off the black liquid and rinse under hot water ( I leave the cases in the jug and dump the water several times rinsing really good). I then dump the cases in a collander and shake most of the water off and throw in my vibratory tumbler while still damp and run a couple of hours. The cases come out looking like new and what is more important they won't corrode to junk in a few days like unattended cases left after firing black powder in them.

Good luck in your new project.

Dale53

[awaveritt]

Thanks to all for your great advice. Should be lots of fun.

[awaveritt]

Range Report:
Hey guys, I'm bumping this thread to report on the results of my first 38 Special BP cartridge loading experience. Took Dale53's advice and made some Buck Emmerts lub e (50%beeswax, 40%Crisco, and 10%lanolin) and pan-lubed 200 boolits cast from the Lee 158 RNFP mold. Loaded with 18 grains of Goex FFFg. Used CCI magnum primers in the first 100 and CCI standard primers in the 2nd hundred. Took em' to the CAS match last weekend. What fun! Lots of smoke, stinks real good to boot. Both vaqueros and the Marlin 1894 had no trouble digesting the rounds and the fouling remained soft throughout the day. All three guns functioned flawlessly throughout the match. Plenty accurate, only one miss out of 120 rounds (can't remember whether with rifle or revolver). Even connected on a gong at 80 yards, shooting offhand without a chance to sight-in.

But the most joyous discovery was when I got home. Plenty of soft fouling but absolutely NO leading in either Vaquero or the Marlin. This is my first time to pan-lube. Since I began casting a couple years back, the only method of lube I'd tried was LLA and Alox/JPW mix. That method has proven to be frustrating in my smokeless loads, with leading occurring in almost all of my revolvers and marlin carbine loads.

But not with Emmerts in the BP loads! Looking forward to trying Emmert's lube in my smokeless loads. Meanwhile, I think I've become a BP convert for all my cowboy shooting.

Thanks for all who chimed in with advice. This is a great forum.

Constable

[TXGunNut]

Glad you had a good time, persuaded an old friend to shoot some of my BP loads in my revolver yesterday. He's thinking about digging out a Colt or Cimmaron and having a little fun himself. Should have had my cleaning gear long to show him how moose milk works.
Makes you wonder why folks bother with smokeless in some guns, don't it?

[Dale53]

awaveritt;
Now you know that our mounted troops in the 1870's through early 1900's had a very effective tool in the 1873 .45 Black Powder Colt. This is a powerful, thoroughly practical combination. Using modern cast bullets with a wide meplat makes this cartridge an even better hunting round than the original.

Emmert's will work perfectly fine as a smokeless powder lube, also. The ONLY downside I have found, is that it has a relatively low melting point (about 135 degrees) so you do have to exercise some care during extremely hot weather (don't leave loaded rounds in a hot trunk, as a for instance). Further, using a double boiler is a big help when mixing up a batch - heating direct can damage the lube. My "double boiler" is simply a large Pyrex mixing cup sitting in a pan of water on the kitchen stove. It is a graduated container so it is simple to measure while you are melting, then pour in the container of your choice.

FWIW
Dale53

[StrawHat]

Just to echo what the others are saying, black powder + lead = fun.

I use the 45 long Colt with the 260 grain boolits and black powder for deer hunting, it anchors them.