Simple trick for removing lead slivers

[Cloudpeak]

Occasionally, I get lead slivers after seating and taper crimping lead bullets (45
ACP). I have belled the cases to where my bullets sit in the flare pretty well and don't want to bell any additional amount. So, I might be getting a bit more shaving that most of you. I like to keep from working the mouth too much in the hopes of making the case last as long as possible.

Usually, I'll wipe the area with a cloth and inspect the loaded round. Most of the time, the lead "ring" will come off. But, this action over thousands of rounds is kind of a pain if you have a bit of arthritis in the ol' digets. So, I sized an empty case the exact diameter of the loaded bullet and place it over the bullet and twist. This removes the lead ring nicely.

Cloudpeak

[Rod B]

Excellent idea, sure beats using one's finger nails.:mrgreen:

Yes I have been known to do that.:oops:

[mag_01]

45 Acp cases--- have never lost one-- many years of shooting---- Well like all of us I have lost a few I could not find but never to case failure . --- Mag

[Cloudpeak]

45 Acp cases--- have never lost one-- many years of shooting---- Well like all of us I have lost a few I could not find but never to case failure . --- Mag

I've read that alot. Good to know. I just turned my seater out some more just to make sure I wasn't prematurely starting to crimp. I'll see how it goes next time I reload. The main reason for making sure there's no "left over" lead is so there is no problem chambering a round due to lead build up.

Cloudpeak

[44man]

Sounds like the crimp portion of the die is closing before the boolit is fully seated. Get a seperate crimp die or back off the seater and then crimp in another step.

[Dale53]

I am having the same trouble with two different manufacturers of dies. They both want to close too quick even when they are backed "Way off". I AM using a separate crimp die (Lee Factory Crimp Die). The problem is entirely with the bullet seating dies.

There should be more clearance when you back the die off. I may break down and complain (that is something that I don't like to do - I'm not one to blame my equipment but this "shouldn't be"). Back in the "old days" when we had only a three die set, this would happen because of crimping at the same time you're seating. However, with a separate crimp die and the seater die backed off, it shouldn't happen (but it does...).

Dale53

[44man]

Just don't say "Freedom".

[3sixbits]

Well folks, for what it's worth, here goes. I found that if I polish as the final stage I loose the shaving. It also removes the last little bit of lube (yes I still lube with carbide dies) and what ever scratches picked up during the reloading cycle. I also add a bit of "High Tack" to the media for the final polish, this removes any excess lube from the outside of the bullets and brass. Hope this helps!

[lurch]

Well folks, for what it's worth, here goes. I found that if I polish as the final stage I loose the shaving. It also removes the last little bit of lube (yes I still lube with carbide dies) and what ever scratches picked up during the reloading cycle. I also add a bit of "High Tack" to the media for the final polish, this removes any excess lube from the outside of the bullets and brass. Hope this helps!

I'm scared of tumbling loaded rounds. Not because I think one might go off, but because of what it might do to the deterrent coating(s) on the powder granules. I definitely can't say from personal experience, but have read that this is not a good idea. If the deterrent coatings comme off the granules to any significant degree, then the burn rate of the powder will be altered - and to the faster end of things.

Not saying that you will blow yourself up, but I think I'll stick to separate seating & crimping steps myself.

[Cloudpeak]

I'm scared of tumbling loaded rounds. Not because I think one might go off, but because of what it might do to the deterrent coating(s) on the powder granules.

That argument made sense to me and is the main reason I won't tumble. The other reason is that it doesn't work well if you use Lee Liquid Alox. Makes a real mess and the media won't last as long, either.

Cloudpeak

[Dale53]

I guess you fellows DO know that the factories tumble their loaded rounds after manufacturing them. That's how their rounds are so nice and shiny. I had an engineer friend who built and sold that tumbling equipment to the major manufacturers.

The trick is to limit the time the rounds are in the tumbler. If you just dampen the media (I keep separate media for tumbling loaded rounds) with a couple of cup fulls of mineral spirits, the bullet lube comes right off. I tumble my loaded rounds in a Dillon large vibratory tumbler and only tumble for TEN MINUTES, MAX. That's the key to staying out of trouble - ten minutes!

Note: I have not tumbled loaded rounds lubed with Lee Liquid Alox, so I don't know if that works for TL or not.

Dale53

[lurch]

Dale,

The limited tumble time makes sense. The same amount of granule to granule bumping might be likened to a trip across the country in a trailer (or not - seems a decent analogy for now) to the gun store shelves.

I suppose the cautionary bits I read about it were considering someone trying to clean corroded, crudded up brass as loaded rounds and just letting things go on and on and...

All that said, I'm still wary of tumbling loaded cartridges. It just seems like one thing with the potential to cause problems, that I don't believe is essential to do. If I had a bunch of rounds with lube all over them, I'd consider it I suppose, but that's a decision I've not yet had to make.

[monadnock#5]

I am in complete agreement that seating dies close the case mouth much too quickly. I do believe that case length has to factor into the equation however. When I first started reloading, I would occasionally crush a case during the seating operation. I found that two factors were responsible. The first was from trying to get the job done as fast as possible, and the second was from having a couple of cases in the mix that were .008 or more longer than the shortest case. I have found that I need to sort each lot of cases for length, and trim only those that are more than .005 greater than the mean. It's not done for greater accuracy (handgun only), but only to prevent crushed cases using a roll crimp.
I present this thought in this thread as it might help cut down on lead shaving using a taper crimp die.

Ken

[dk17hmr]

I load and shoot alot of 45 ACP, my bullets are sized to .452 and I use lee tumble. I bell the cases way out and then seat the bullet after that I go back through and taper crimp. Never have lost a case do to failure. I also spray a old t-shirt with break cleaner and wipe off every bullet. I really hate that Tumble lube but I am to cheap to buy a real sizer.

[Cloudpeak]

I load and shoot alot of 45 ACP, my bullets are sized to .452 and I use lee tumble. I bell the cases way out and then seat the bullet after that I go back through and taper crimp. Never have lost a case do to failure. I also spray a old t-shirt with break cleaner and wipe off every bullet. I really hate that Tumble lube but I am to cheap to buy a real sizer.

My RCBS expander only goes so far and then starts expanding further into the case. I use my seating/crimping die only for seating. This RCBS die has a "sweet spot" between crimping and being able to seat the bullet to the proper depth. I think I got it dialed in pretty well tonight. One thing I found was the seating stem which was for SWC was seating the bullets in crooked and this created some shaving. I put in the round nose seating stem to seat the 200 gr SWC and this worked better.

I like the tumble lube but cut it with low-odor mineral spirits. It seems to dry pretty well and isn't too messy. I lubed the bullets yesterday and loaded them tonight. I'm in a dry climate (way too dry) so maybe the LLA dries a bit better.

Cloudpeak

[3sixbits]

Let's pretend that you use a single base powder for loading your lead pistol bullets and not a double base powder which you do use (double base powders have no coating). The arm chair quarterbacks say this will make the coating on the powder come off if you tumble! I have never seen a factory loaded commercial center fire rifle ctg with the annealing signs on the neck and shoulders. Does any buddy out there in radio land wonder how they get the heat color off the loaded rounds? Take a 10X eye loop and look at factory loads, see the tiny scratches? Wonder why you can't see them vary well with the naked eye? The big benefit to using multi die holding press is, you don't have to seat and crimp in one step. There is no rule I know of that says you can not run the loaded round through another sizer after you seat and before you crimp. I use to do just that before I stared looking at factory loaded ammo (I worried about the bulge from the base of the bullet) I discovered that the polish hides a lot of sins. As always, just my two cents!

[handyrandyrc]

We had a guy do some severe long times tumbling live ammunition. He did some for days and even weeks on end. He then pulled them apart to analyze the granules closely. He tried different powders -- ball, flake, extruded.

All looked EXACTLY the same under magnification.

He then shot rounds from his control group (not tumbled), and also shot ones that had been tumbled for extended lengths of time. He did all of this over a chronograph. There was no discernable difference between ones that had been tumbled and those that had not.

I wish I could find the article -- it was really great. I tumble live stuff now without fear. I don't try and over-do it, and simply like to get things clean once I'm done. Think about ammunition that is hauled all over the placed in a tank or a troop carrier. And before that, it was vibrated for who knows how long being shipped out to the coast, then either by boat or air to overseas, then dragged around the sandbox... I don't think vibration is as much of an issue as many make it out to be.

[randyrat]

I believe that was also mentioned in Glock Talk forum by; mmmmMMMMM not sure. I second that, i read that same article. Test came out> no difference between rounds................ Using Lee liquid Alox i would also wipe them with mineral spirits before tumbling them.

[monadnock#5]

The tumbling of loaded rounds sounds to me like one of those low probability, high risk type of ventures. A very low probability that anything bad might happen in a hundred years of doing it, but a very high risk that one bad event would thoroughly ruin your day. I'd bet that a round going off in a tumbler filled with dry media (i.e. dust filled environment) would be pretty spectacular. I would very much like to know the environment in which ammo companies perform this operation. However they do it, I'll bet the primers and powder are in a separate room, if not a separate building. I may, or may not try it myself someday. But I would never recommend the practise to anyone else.

Ken

[ace1001]

I believe you are treating the symptom (ie lead shards), but the cause is more important. I think the case is not belled enough and the shard come off one side of the bullet base. The base is most important for accuracy. You MUST bell enough to start the bullet evenly. If you buy good soft brass like Starline, it can stand it. Bell just enough that the shards go away. Ace

[Cloudpeak]

I believe you are treating the symptom (ie lead shards), but the cause is more important. I think the case is not belled enough and the shard come off one side of the bullet base. The base is most important for accuracy. You MUST bell enough to start the bullet evenly. If you buy good soft brass like Starline, it can stand it. Bell just enough that the shards go away. Ace

My RCBS expander plug bells the case mouth to .482 (outside measurement). That's is good as it will do because of it's design. To describe, there's a straight run, the flare and then a straight run. It's not a gradual taper to infinity.

I'm using bevel base bullets so they feed into the case pretty good. The round nose bullet seating stem solved most of the shaving problem as the bullet was going in crooked when using the SWC stem.

Oh, no, you about stopped my heart. Buy brass???? That would be as bad as buying bullets:-D I bought WWB, shot it up and have been reloading them ever since. I've picked up a lot of range brass along the way.

Here's how the last round of test loads shot at 48' off the bench. I called the flyer so it doesn't count! Cloudpeak
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/WyoBob/Targets/DSCN1360.jpg

[scrapcan]

Cloudpeak,

next time you are at the grocery store or box store(I will not say a name for fear of retribution) you should pick up a pack of the cheapest paper plates you can find, they make great targets. buy a bingo marker and you have your little spot whenever you need it. They also work pretty good when using aperture sights at 100 to 200 yds depending on size of aperture (I use an adjustable iris so could not tell you which would be best or which will be focused for you) it is pretty good to have circle,circle,circle for a sighter spot. And another side benefit is that you don't have to do the dishes when you are left home alone and if you dro the BBQ sauce just right you can recycle!

[Cloudpeak]

Boy, you guys are going to give me a coronary. Buy brass. Buy paper plates. Spend, spend, spend!!! I'm semi-retired and a real tightwad. I get used 8x11 1/2 computer paper (free), draw two circles with a "Cool Whip" lid (almost free), cut them out (almost free-my time isn't worth much) and Scotchtape (really cheap) them to (free) cardboard. See a trend here? I draw the circle and fill it in with a magic marker using a fairing off a wrecked Cherokee 140 that I bought years ago for parts that has just the right size hole in it.

I don't shoot long guns anymore so the 100-200 yards doesn't apply. 35 years ago, I could hit a gallon jug full of water with my Ruger 44 Flat top out to 200 yards enough times to keep it interesting (and fun). Now, I just shoot my 1911 for steel targets shoots and for practice.

Cloudpeak