What is it?

[richhodg66]

I picked this up a couple of days ago. It was sold as a "Spanish Revolver", but I don't see much in the way of markings to indicate that. It was also supposed to be a .45 ACP, but a .45 ACP case won't fit, it's the right diameter, but maybe a eight inch too long. It's clearly a .45. It's double action and appears it never had any kind of ejector, I assume one has to poke out the empties with a rod of some sort (the cylinder does not swing out.

It's a nice looking thing, quite a bit of engraving and nice grip. There's a bit of surface rust, no pitting. The trigger return spring is the only thing that doesn't seem to work, the hammer cocks and drops OK, just the trigger has to be pushed back manually.

Hopefully I've posted pictures correctly. Any ideas what it is?

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/richhodg66/IMG00129.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/richhodg66/IMG00131.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/richhodg66/IMG00128.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/richhodg66/IMG00132.jpg

[subsonic]

Google "R.I.C. " and "bulldog" revolvers.

Looks like a Webley cousin to me. Rimfire or center?
Not pinfire, right?

Could be a spanish copy of a british gun?

The "base pin" pulls out and swings over to eject.

I'll give you $50 for it ;-)

[subsonic]

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x386/Dennis_Doza/5d4aa233.jpg

[richhodg66]

OK, looks like we have a winner. I wouldn't have figured that ejector out on my own, thanks.

I have heard of the British Bulldog. It says T.W. Watson, No. 4, Pall Mall, London and + 50 on the barrel and TRANTEP(???) PATENT on the side in front of the cylinder upon closer examination, so maybe it is a Bulldog.

As near as I can tell looking through the gap, the firing pin centers up so it's not rimfire. The bore looks decent and has deep grooves.

Funny you should mention $50, because it was $49.95 plus tax. I figured for that, it would be a nice decoration for the man cave someday if nothing else. What is the collector value on one? Once I fix the trigger return spring, I'll want to try to shoot it, so what caliber is it in?

[tek4260]

Off the top of my head it would be a 455, but I may be way off

[JohnnyFlake]

Off the top of my head it would be a 455, but I may be way off

I agree!!! The .455 was a very popular British round for their Webley Revolvers, also .38 Short.

[Mk42gunner]

I would do some research on the proof marks that are on the gun; to find out for sure where it was made prior to firing it.

If nothing else, it would make a neat decoration for $50.

Robert

[dubber123]

I believe you will find it is Tranter patent. "R" on the end. It might help with your research. Nice find, I wish I had found it. :)

[andy h]

What you appear to have there is an original Tranter revolver http://www.deactivated-guns.co.uk/deactivated-guns/allied-deactivated-guns/very-rare-tranter-revolver-circa-1885/prod_654.html?review=write
Worth considerably more than $50 possibly over $1000 over here in England.

[richhodg66]

Wow, I guess I was in the right place at the right time for a change. It is a neat old gun. We did a google search for the T.W. Watson of Pall Mall and it seems he was a retailer from 1875 to 1885 in London so it's older than I thought.

I bought this from Cabela's of all places, a notoriously over priced seller of used guns. Guess they didn't research this one much before putting it in the showcase. I need to do some more researching, I just thought it an ontriguing neat old gun when I got it, didn't figure it wa worth much.

[Dan Cash]

That old nasty klunker is dangerous. Send it to me and i will give you $100 to get it off the streets.

[andy h]

Apparently these were carried by and quoted from Wiki ,Famous users of Tranter revolvers included Allan Pinkerton, founder of the Pinkerton Detective Agency, the Confederate General James Ewell Brown Stuart , From Wikepedia.
The calibre is most probably .450 Eley.

[Two Old Dogs]

I agree that it is probably .450 Revolver cartridge which originated between 1865 and1867. The .455 didn't exist until after 1882. A well wriltten history of The Bulldog Revolver is contained in the 2010 and 2011 ediltions of Gun Digest and covers Briltish, Continental and American versions of this poplular handgun.

[subsonic]

Neat looking gun, no matter what it is.

$150? :mrgreen:

[subsonic]

http://www.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=2887775

Maybe it is a copy.

[Mk42gunner]

That old nasty klunker is dangerous. Send it to me and i will give you $100 to get it off the streets.

No no no, Dan you have the wrong idea. That old nasty klunker is dangerous. Send it to me and I will only charge you $100 to get it off the streets, and into my hands:kidding:

Seriously,

I was thinking that it was probably a Tranter patent, but it could have been a foriegn copy with misspelled words.

Robert

[subsonic]

I beleive the caliber might be .450 Adams.

[richhodg66]

I had forgotten about the .450 Eley. I'm beginning to get hesitant about shooting it now anyway, though I think it would be alright if I handloaded for it carefully, possibly using black powder since it was designed for that.

Seems to me that Sherlock Holmes' character in Arthur Conan Doyle's stories used a British Bulldog as his carry piece. This old revolver is growing on me, it has a lot of character.

[jdgabbard]

Wow, that is a great find!

[Paul5388]

Rich, I think you would be safe to assume it's a .450 Adams. +50 is probably the bore in lead balls the size of the bore to make 1 pound. Here's some serial number data and other Tranter odds and ends. http://www.firearmsmuseum.org.au/TranterHistory/wt_hist_fra.htm

The bore could use a bullet as large as .476", according to a site I've already referenced for you.

Here's the instructions.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y121/Paul5388/Tranter.jpg

[richhodg66]

Thanks, Paul. Looks like this one is a Model 1878 Double Action revolver in .450 centerfire according to the list on your page. I referenced T.W. Watson as a retailer in London from 1875 to 1885 so that model date seems to fit.

I'll do some more digging and research, but I'm glad I hung around to look at it and made the decision to get it now. Weird that a place like Cabela's had it and didn't do anymore with it than that.

[Dutchman]

May I suggest you edit your subject line to include "Tranter Revolver"....

References:
The Handgun by Geoffrey Boothroyd
The Revolver 1865-1888 by Taylorson
The Webley Story by Dowd

Boothroyd says the pocket models did not have an ejector and that the cylinder had to be removed and the cleaning rod used to removes spent cases.

http://images15.fotki.com/v588/photos/4/28344/9895637/001ar-vi.jpg

http://images51.fotki.com/v278/photos/4/28344/9895637/002ar-vi.jpg

There is a great deal more info on the .450 Adams cartridge in The Webley Story. This illustration shows the Adams .450 cartridge. I have a larger scan of this that shows the dimensions better: email swede1894 (at) gmail.com

http://images15.fotki.com/v588/photos/4/28344/9895637/007ar-vi.jpg

Pay attention to the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs. It's basically saying that Tranter didn't necessarily manufacturer all the revolvers with his patent and that there wasn't real tight standardization of features or design.

http://images61.fotki.com/v777/photos/4/28344/9895637/003ar-vi.jpg

http://images16.fotki.com/v377/photos/4/28344/9895637/004ar-vi.jpg

[Paul5388]

Pivoted rod extractor solid frame revolver
These revolvers were mostly five shot and centrefire. They were available in calibers from .320 to .500, the most popular being the .320. The barrel lengths for the .320 was 3" while the larger calibers were 4" to 4.5". Covered by British patent 3622 of 1868. An asymmetrical inspection plate in frame was attached by a screw that screwed into the hammer pivot screw. This plate could be removed to inspect mechanism. A spur on rear of trigger operated the hammer sear and the trigger guard had a slot to accommodate it. They were fitted with one piece grips.
The serial numbers for these revolvers started in the thirty thousand range and went through to the mid fifty thousand range.

http://www.firearmsmuseum.org.au/images/T2015.JPG

The 1880 subsonic posted doesn't have the spur on the rear of the trigger like this one and yours does.

[richhodg66]

Good idea editing the subject line, how do I do it?

Wow, you guys are some awsome researchers. This is great stuff.

[subsonic]

Edit your first post. Choose go advanced.

This takes a heel type boolit.

Search .480 Achilles.

[subsonic]

http://www.rjholloway.co.uk/IMG_2110.JPG

http://www.rjholloway.co.uk/classic_handguns.htm

Guess you're not taking $150... :lol:

[subsonic]

Has Cabelas called to say "Ooops! We put the decimal in the wrong place!" yet?

From what I have seen, $499.50 sounds right. But knowing Cabela's, maybe it was supposed to be $4995.00? :rolleyes:

[richhodg66]

I was suprised too. When I looked at it, I didn't look hard enough to see any markings really and just figured it was a junk copy of something like they did (they thought it was Spanish???).

Anyway, I'm glad I grabbed it, but I really only did because it was intriguing and cheap. Had it been priced $100, I might not have. I have never been the type to buy guns as a speculation, but am beginning to think more in those terms about some. I do own a few that are fairly valuable, but mostly I like to shoot and mess with them.

So, as much as I'd like to say I made a shrewd deal, I didn't, and I was just as ignorant a buyer as they were a seller. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes, isn't that how the saying goes?

[Wayne Smith]

This takes a heel type boolit.

Search .480 Achilles.

Maybe, but the Adams Mk I and II referenced by The Dutchman appears to be a straight sided, inside lubed boolit. It looks as if it is the only one that is in that illustration.

[TCLouis]

I have no idea what it is, but it is just weird/ugly enough to really pique my interest.

Long way around saying, "I wish it were mine."

[richhodg66]

You know, it does look kind of weird, but the ergonomics of it are pretty good, at least for me. It sits in my hand and points well and the trigger pull is suprisingly good and crisp. The sights are pretty good for fixed revolver sights too. Seems this was a state of the art combat handgun in it's day.

[subsonic]

This or an SAA? It seems like a tough choice.