ruger throat reaming?

[jsu]

Hi, i'm new to the site and new to boolit casting. I own a ruger bh .357 and a lipseys flattop in. 45 colt. I've read about cylinder reaming and it makes sense to me, but I have reservations about altering my guns. They both have small throats, 355&450. Is there negatives to this process? Maybe affecting the shooting of jacketed boolits ? Thanks for any replies.

[44man]

Hi, i'm new to the site and new to boolit casting. I own a ruger bh .357 and a lipseys flattop in. 45 colt. I've read about cylinder reaming and it makes sense to me, but I have reservations about altering my guns. They both have small throats, 355&450. Is there negatives to this process? Maybe affecting the shooting of jacketed boolits ? Thanks for any replies.
No negatives at all. But you MUST know the groove sizes so the throats are cut just over that size.
Take an over size pure lead ball and push through the barrel, then see if it will go through the throats. If it will not, cut or lap the throats.
Yes, you can lap yourself to get a slip fit of the ball.

[fecmech]

Welcome to the board. Have you shot the guns yet with cast?? Accuracy?? Leading?? If it was me I'd wring the guns out a bit to see what I had before I'd remove metal. Good luck

[stubshaft]

In the Rugers that I had reamed there was no change in the accuracy of j-words and the cast accuracy increased tremendously.

[Larry Gibson]

I'd shoot them first too......

I keep reading about all these "small" cylinder throats, barrel constrictions and moulds that cast less than nominal.......I've been in this game for a long time and have yet to find any of the above. Not questioning anyone's veracity just stating that I've not found any of such and I've slugged, pinned, measured, mic'd and have yet to find any such. But then I break in my new revovlers with at least a couple hundred jacketed loads, just to smooth things out, and cast bullets with alloys used by the mould makers...........I must be lucky I guess.

BTW; not too many years distant everyone was complaing the throats of cylinders were too large, now they are too small..........??????

Larry Gibson

[jsu]

I've shot the bh .357 with some cast boolits that I made and it shot accurate. The. 45 colt is new i've shot maybe a hundred rds. Through it and I was getting decent groups with it 2.25@25 yds I may wait and see how things shake out before I do anything. I have some 255 gr. Cast loaded that I plan to run through it in the morning. Thanks for replies.

[Bwana]

I'd shoot them first too......

I keep reading about all these "small" cylinder throats, barrel constrictions and moulds that cast less than nominal.......I've been in this game for a long time and have yet to find any of the above. Not questioning anyone's veracity just stating that I've not found any of such and I've slugged, pinned, measured, mic'd and have yet to find any such. But then I break in my new revovlers with at least a couple hundred jacketed loads, just to smooth things out, and cast bullets with alloys used by the mould makers...........I must be lucky I guess.

BTW; not too many years distant everyone was complaing the throats of cylinders were too large, now they are too small..........??????

Larry Gibson
I have a BH 357 and it has .359" throats; but, I have had it for 21 years and I don't know how many rounds (thousands and thousands) it has seen. Both my SBH 44s have .431' throats. One has had thousands and the other a couple of thousand. Sized to throat dia they shoot great. Didn't bother to see if undersized shot poorly.
On the other hand the two Colt Troopers my father had had smallish throats and shot jacketed well and leaded with what little cast I fired through them. Although I knew next to nothing about cast boolits back then other than my friend Paul cast some and he didn't know anything either.

[jsu]

Btw, if you carefully read my post you'll see I wasn't complaining about my throught sizes I was just stating the sizes they actually are . I love my rugers

[Larry Gibson]

Btw, if you carefully read my post you'll see I wasn't complaining about my throught sizes I was just stating the sizes they actually are . I love my rugers

I've loved all my Rugers too, even the ones I traded off (regret a couple of those "trades"). Never found one with overly large throats or one with small throats. My Single Six .32 H&R, original run, has .312 throats and a .311 barrel. My Security Six has .3575 throats and a .357 bore. My .41 Magnum Bisley has .410 throats and a .410 barrel as did the 2 other Ruger BHs I've had. My 50th Anniversary .44 FT has .431 throats and a .429 barrel. All are wonderfully accurate and shoot a lot better than I do.

The old Hawes Western Marshal has .434 throats and a .429 barrel. I shot over 5,000 .429 sized 429421s out of it in blissful ignorance that it was "inaccurate" as I shot many 1 - 1.5" 6 shot groups at 25 yards with it when Y eyes could see the sights a lot better than they do now. I've also shot thousands of .429 sized cast of my own and commercial through several Rugers, S&Ws and the Hawes in ignorance of their inaccuracy with such. I've had numerous Colt and S&W .357s that i just shot .358 cast through with excellent accuracy without any idea of the throat size or the barrel size. My Colt Anaconda .44 has .429 throats and a .429 barrel. It shoots all .428 - .430 bullets equally well except the 429640HPs which must be .429 to chamber as they extend into the throats.

Good that you are shooting your Rugers before deciding to ream the throats, just my opinion. Good shooting with your Rugers......:-)

Larry Gibson

[MtGun44]

Shoot it. If it works, forget it. If there is a specific PROBLEM, then maybe changing the
dimensions will help. Mine threw fliers and wouldn't group better than about 3" or a bit
worse at 25 yds.

Bill

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

Shoot it. If it works, forget it. If there is a specific PROBLEM, then maybe changing the
dimensions will help. Mine threw fliers and wouldn't group better than about 3" or a bit
worse at 25 yds.

Bill

This is what my Redhawk does. The throats while may or may not be the right size, they are NOT the same size. .0025 variance between 6 cylinders cant be good. I definitely have thread choke as well

[jsu]

I'm going to slug the barrels on my guns, so i'll know where i stand in that area and i'm shooting them today with boolits that I casted and see what happens. I have 35 years in reloading but know almost nothing about casting. I know the people here have been there and done that so I plan to ask a few questions and learn some things about this the easy way. Thanks, i'm going shooting!

[Irascible]

How did you measure your throats? If you are trying to use a dial caliper, forget it. The flat faced jaws won't fit the cylinder correctly. Plug gauges or measuring a driven through soft lead slug is what you need.

[jsu]

How did you measure your throats? If you are trying to use a dial caliper, forget it. The flat faced jaws won't fit the cylinder correctly. Plug gauges or measuring a driven through soft lead slug is what you need.

Thanks for your advice,because your exactly right.i was trying to use dial calipers and i know now that doesn't work well. I figured it out when another member of this site said to try to push a boolit in them. I did this and was amazed the. 358 sized boolit pushed through every throat very snugly, thats when I realized my measuring was off! The OD off the boolit can be measured accuratly with calipers but not the rounded inside of a throat. Thanks, btw I dont own the other measuring tools you mentioned.

[Larry Gibson]

This is what my Redhawk does. The throats while may or may not be the right size, they are NOT the same size. .0025 variance between 6 cylinders cant be good. I definitely have thread choke as well

You might try shooting 200 - 300 full power jacketed rounds through the revovler and then remeasure. It is a piece of machinery and a "break in" is usually needed. I've been doing that since day one and haven't had to ream any cylinder throats or lap any revovler barrels to remove "restricitons".

Larry Gibson

[MtGun44]

First, calipers are not accurate enough, second they are very difficult to use in this
application with good accuracy. Even if used with a lot of skill, they just are not up to
the task. You need either pin gages or to slug the dismounted cylinder and measure
with a .0001" rated micrometer.

Bill

[jsu]

First, calipers are not accurate enough, second they are very difficult to use in this
application with good accuracy. Even if used with a lot of skill, they just are not up to
the task. You need either pin gages or to slug the dismounted cylinder and measure
with a .0001" rated micrometer.

Bill

Thanks for the info
I understand now,I'm getting a free education, the slugging is something I can do

[Char-Gar]

Hi, i'm new to the site and new to boolit casting. I own a ruger bh .357 and a lipseys flattop in. 45 colt. I've read about cylinder reaming and it makes sense to me, but I have reservations about altering my guns. They both have small throats, 355&450. Is there negatives to this process? Maybe affecting the shooting of jacketed boolits ? Thanks for any replies.

Hold on! I am 99.99% certain your Lipsey's 45 FT has throats of .452 and very uniform. Mine does and so does everybody else I know and I know lots of folks who have them. I also seriously doubt that the 357 has throats of .355. Most likely they are .357-.358.

I will not believe those numbesr you post, unless I measure the cylinders myself. I will do that with clean cylinders, a machinest hole guage and a good Starrett micrometer. I will get very different numbers.

You cannot get good numbesr with dirty cylinder throats, lead bullets or slugs and/or calipers.

The Lipsey's 45 FT is the best production sixgun I have ever owned, bar none.

There was a time when Ruger had small throats in the 45 cylinders. In in the past couple of years they have broken the code and are not turning out small throated 45 cylinders any more. The 44s and 357s have always had proper cylinder throats.

I am not intending to be brusk or offensive, just help you along the way to cast bullet joy.

I have been around sixguns for a half century and have never found most of the problems that folks on these boards post about. Shoot the pistols before you even start to think about cutting on them. I would be bet a steak dinner, that the supposed issues are just theory in somebody's head and not based in the reality of the firearms in question.

[jsu]

No offense taken on the comments you made. If you will read my comments two posts up you will see i have already conceded my ignorance on how to measure a throat size. The guns i have shoot the way their supposed too. And i'm positive my rugers don't need any alterations. But their is people everywhere reaming throats or wanting them reamed, I wonder whats up with that? In other words is there guns out there that are out of spec. And need fixing?

[Char-Gar]

jsu.. I will confess I did not read the thread. When I read your post I hit the reply button and that is that. Glad you have that issue resolved.

I shot sixguns for 40 years without the need to ream throats, or fire lap the constrictions out of barrels. It all seemed to start with Veral Smith (LBT) and his writtings. Shooters seem to be groupies and he developed quite a following. Jeff Cooper, Elmer Keith and others all have their devotees. They don't do their own thinking and shooting, but allows others to do it for them. They will stick by their theories and swear it is true and fight to the death. I suspect some will come along to tell me how I am full of it, and how they shoot sub MOA with their sixguns after working on them. That seems to be the way things go.

Like most things, there is enough truth in it, to make it "sometimes" true. Some Ruger 45 cylinders were too undersized for good shooting, and so the trend started. I have opened up the throats on 2 older Ruger NM Blackhawks, as they needed it. However the majority of cylinders that are reamed don't need it. It is just a fad now.

If you live and shoot long enough, a fellow will realize that much of what is published in gun magazines is just written for money and not necessarily true. The same holds true for posters on Boards just as this. Folks are just parroting what they hear or read, without any real experience to back it up.

If you live and shoot long enough, you also get a little cranky, and I am testimony to that. Good shooting and hang on to that FT 45. You will kick yourself later in life, if you dont.

[MT Gianni]

Char-Gar. A 45 Blackhawk bought new this spring had throats measuring less than .451 in both cylinders. A factory 45 jacketed bullet would hang up in each. In neither cylinder were there more than two of the same measurements, the smallest being .448. Neither cylinder shot acceptably with cast.
The Lipsey guns may have been done right, but the standard BH in my experience shows no change from the last 25 years.

[subsonic]

Everybody: grab a .452" pin gauge and go to your local pistol pusher.

Pop the cylinder out of every .45 blackhawk he'll let you touch (may just be one!)

Report back how many throats it passed through from the chamber end.

An answer will emerge.

My Accu-Sport Bisley was tight and mismatched. From .449" to not quite .451".

[Char-Gar]

I have bought 2 new Ruger SA in 45 Colt in the past two years. The first was a New Vaquero and the throats were .4522-4525. The second was the Lipsey's 45 Flatop and the cylinder throats were .452 dead nuts on in each throat. I know six more folks that have FT 45 and they all report the same thing.

I have been told by folks who are supposed to know that Ruger reamed the FT charge holes one at a time, whereas they gang ream the BH chamber all six at once.

The charge holes themselves on the Lipsey's were smaller and not the hog wallow chambers you would expect on Ruger BH. The barrels on the Lipsey's are also silky smooth and won't lead with any decent lead load. Ruger can make a high quality sixgun when the mood strikes them.

I only report my experience and let others report theirs.

[canyon-ghost]

I had cylindersmith open the throats on my 41 magnum Blackhawk but, I have a 44 flattop that shoots way too good to mess with. The 41 magnum is not a stepchild here, I like it better than the 44 special.
When it comes to cast bullets the best advice I've recieved is from Lyman's Cast Bullet handbook. They tell you to try different sizing and different molds to see what shoots the best. That much I do. I can tell you that the 41 was very tight on tolerances and that the 44 shot fantastic right out of the box.

Being no stranger to custom handgun modifications, my thought is always, "if necessary, go lightly". In other words, possibly light modification is better than 'bubba- ing' the gun to death. I enjoy my Blackhawks a lot. I've also had plenty of time to experiment with sizing and molds on TC Contenders at the silhouette range. Just because someone else does it, doesn't mean it's absolutely necessary. You probably know how each gun is an individual.

Good Luck,
Ron

[MtGun44]

I have heard that Ruger recently (whatever that might mean, 2-3 yrs???) changed the
way they do cylinders and brought the throat consistency into line.

If you go to gunsmithing and search there is an old thread I put up about reaming and
polishing an older BH in .45 Colt/ACP with .449 and .450 throats. It shot kinda OK with jbullets,
and medium OK with cast, did not seriously lead, but threw fliers and did not shoot
tighter than 3" at 25 yds. I can reliably shoot 1" with a good pistol at that range so I
knew it was off a touch. I think a lot of the older ones were like this, but it is starting
to seem like the newer Ruger BHs have gotten the throat dimensions under control.

OH, yes - FWIW, my real old SBH has around .432" throats, so they did not always make
all of them too tight. It shoots OK with Jbullets and ordinary cast, but is quite accurate with
.433" Keiths from a Group Buy Fat Keith mold.

Bill

[canyon-ghost]

Because "one size fits all" jacketed shoot good in ANY 41 magnum, the reloads that I make are superbly better than what I have bought off the store shelf!

I've seen nothing but an increase in accuracy in that 41 magnum Blackhawk and I keep getting better with it.

Cast boolits let you suit the cartridge to the gun, not try to suit the gun to store-bought. I've never had one of my handguns shoot worse with cast unless I didn't get it right. I can usually find a mold and sizing die that makes it shoot better than store bought jacketed. There's too much variance in what 'specs' are supposed to be and, what they really are.

[subsonic]

I have bought 2 new Ruger SA in 45 Colt in the past two years. The first was a New Vaquero and the throats were .4522-4525. The second was the Lipsey's 45 Flatop and the cylinder throats were .452 dead nuts on in each throat.

Buy a lottery ticket! :kidding::lol:

I hope they are getting their act together. I have not heard the same rumors about the "big framed" .45 colts. And I have little use for the flat top sized frame in .45C.

I just don't have a lot of time to plink around lately. All of my handgunning has been for serious purposes and with a mind that lead is going to meet meat.

[jsu]

Buy a lottery ticket! :kidding::lol:

I hope they are getting their act together. I have not heard the same rumors about the "big framed" .45 colts. And I have little use for the flat top sized frame in .45C.

I just don't have a lot of time to plink around lately. All of my handgunning has been for serious purposes and with a mind that lead is going to meet meat.
I own the flattop and I'm not offended that you consider it a plinker gun, to each his own when it comes to guns I'm just glad their not all the same because we woudnt own very many would we! I'm new to this boolit casting but the 255 gr. Boolits clocking 973 fps that I shot out of mine will probably eat a little meat.

[tek4260]

The New Vaquero and the Flattop 45 are both mid-frames so the cylinder is too small for Ruger to use a gang reamer to chamber. Each cylinder is indexed and reamed with the same reamer making for consistent throats and even consistent chambers since there is not as much "slop" in the reaming as with a gang reamer. My New Vaquero had proper sized throats as well as all the others I have heard of.

[subsonic]

Are the flat-top .44 mags built on the mid-size frame? I would assume no, but ?

[pdawg_shooter]

A buddy of mine bought a New Ruger 45 last year. $550.00 out the door. He then sent it to a pistolsmith and had the throats reamed, base pin replaced. springs replaced, barrel lapped, grip frame fitted to the frame, grips refitted to grip frame, & action honed. Spent another $425.oo plus shipping both ways. I ask him why he didnt just buy a Freedom Arms and save all the agervation.

[tek4260]

Are the flat-top .44 mags built on the mid-size frame? I would assume no, but ?


They are on the full size frame. They can be made into nice shooters with a bit of cutting and filing, ect..


http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm35/tk3945/101_0944.jpg

[Char-Gar]

I own the flattop and I'm not offended that you consider it a plinker gun, to each his own when it comes to guns I'm just glad their not all the same because we woudnt own very many would we! I'm new to this boolit casting but the 255 gr. Boolits clocking 973 fps that I shot out of mine will probably eat a little meat.

Folks fall prey to gun writers and gun fashion. For a hundred years the 45 Colt in it's black powder velocity killed lots of game and men all of this country. It will still do just fine, if the man who has it in his hand does his part. Animals are not meaner and tougher than they were before magnumitis hit the handgun fans in this country. A 255 grain bullet going 900 fps will kill any deer or similiar size game grave yard dead, if a man know how to hunt and shoot a pistol. It is not a plinker or a pop gun!

When game gets very big and/or very mean, I don't want to be standing there with any handgun to deal with the situation. I want a rifle equal to the task. That is just my way of looking at things, and others can look at the same things any way they want.

[subsonic]

I do not doubt that the .45 kills well at standard speed. I just want more than that in a hunting revolver. Or should I say, I want the extra power available should I choose to tap into it.

[jsu]

A buddy of mine bought a New Ruger 45 last year. $550.00 out the door. He then sent it to a pistolsmith and had the throats reamed, base pin replaced. springs replaced, barrel lapped, grip frame fitted to the frame, grips refitted to grip frame, & action honed. Spent another $425.oo plus shipping both ways. I ask him why he didnt just buy a Freedom Arms and save all the agervation.

Last time I checked a low end freedom arms will give freedom to about twice that much money from your wallet!