First range test with paper patch=Failure lol

[catkiller45]

Glad no one else was there..I was shooten and laughen at the same time.I was lucky to keep on paper at 100 yards...Let me tell you how I loaded and maybe someone can shed some light on it and have a good laugh as well...

Win.full length sized/cci 200 LRP
75 GR.Goex Cartridge powder droptubed
1 .022 VEG WAD
COMPRESSED .383
3/16 SPG cookie
another .022 veg.wad
bullet seated into case .200 inch
o.a.l =3.288 inch OK i NEED TO ADD SOME INFO HERE....

45-70 CAL..Pedersoli 30 inch barrel 1 in 18 twist
Lead bullet from Buffalo arms Naked .441 dia patched to .449 in.dia....to small?

wiped after every shot with a damp 2inch patch...I am still laughing about it...Fired 10 rounds..I could see on the patch the rifleing marks....Admiting I know very little about this,I am wondering if the bullet diameter was too small...I noticed on 1 or 2 of the csaes,it looked like the powder was blowing back around the case...rifleing on paper patch pieces

Perhaps I used too much powder..Maybe should have stayed with the 1F....Like I said,I have no idea really...I hope all this makes sense to who ever reads it,so to get an idea of where I may have gone wrong....Thanks so much for taking the time to read it....John laughing still

[Lead pot]

Looks good to me.

Tell me about the bullet/ patched diameter/alloy/length

[RMulhern]

What rifle/make/brand/etc.??

[catkiller45]

Guess I forgot to post that..

Bullet from Buff Arms Lead .441 dia.
Patched to .449...I am think too small.
Fit snug in bore,Maybe not snug enough..John Gotta say I had a fun time....I was betting if the next
one was gonna be on paper or not....lmao

[Don McDowell]

Probably in that pedersoli chamber you're going to have to shoot groove diamter bullets.

[powderburnerr]

you found patches with rifling marks on them ? did you find any pieces of patch in front of the muzzle? did you find any tiny rings of paper in the throat when you wiped?

[RMulhern]

Your patched bullet OD of .449" IS NOT too small! What alloy....lead/tin were you using....if you know??

[catkiller45]

Found several pieces of patch paper---I did not notice any rings of paper in chamber or on the case..I read about this...Yes I could see rifleing mark on the pieces I found...

Bullet alloy as far as I knoww is pure lead from BCCO...Thats what they call the bullet lead bullet

Let me add this as well....Another guy said that is the wrong powder to use..Should be 1F instead...?

[Don McDowell]

Nothing wrong with Cartridge powder. 2f would be a better way to go than the 1f in the 45-70.

[powderburnerr]

you should have found confetti , thin strips that were cut by the rifling, if you used the 9# ba paper it should have shredded,

finding paper with marks on it and sooty cases sounds like a low pressure issue,
I never shot ctg. grade so dont know anything about it but 1F goex shows no signs like you describe ,nor does 2F , swiss, or kik.

Brent is giving you good info on shiloh , your bullet and paper are not the problem,
have you ever cast your chamber and throat? is your rifle new or new to you?
your one damp patch may not have left the bore in good condition for the next shot

[bigted]

i think powderburner is on to something with the low preassure and definetly the prep of the barrel for the next shot.

my cleaning jag is built for 45 cal and meassures in at .365 inch. i also use 3 inch patchs and find that i need 2 spit patchs and a clean dry one between shots for best accuracy with all 4 of my bpcr style rifles.

i shoot and have shot a bunch of pounds of cartridge powder from goex and i find it to be more volume for the grains weighed then my 2f goex. if memory serves i can have 70 grains of cartridge in the same space as 63 grains of 2f.

also what kind of primer are you useing? srry i just went up and found your useing a cci 200 large pistol i think...if this is so might try the cci 200 large rifle primer ...it is what i use for everything in my arsonel except my mag rifles . the soot on the outside of the cases is definetly a blow-by condition and not desired in the least. also if you dont get all the dry soot out of a barrel when shooting these paper patched specially with the 9 pound onion it will tear and maybe install some small lead deposites in your barrel...might give this a close check to see if there is maybe the smallest of lead in the bore that has gone undetected.

good luck and im glad that you dove in to begin the experimentation...i didnt want to be the only new newby with this pping thing...im havin a bunch of fun so far and find huge satisfaction with wrapping my own poured lead boolits in paper and shooting them thru my rifles. this is the next progression for me in shooting like the odg's [ old dead guys ] did it...or the next thing to it....im shooting smokless with a bit larger boolits as well so that kinda complicates my progress but im keeping good notes on everything im doing this time around so maybe i can skirt the frustration this time with a new process.

another thing i read in your text above was that you have a .022 inch over powder card...then your spg lube cookie...then another .022 card then the boolit. according to mathews writings he found that the card over powder under the lube cookie just scraped the lube off the barrel as it ran out the barrel and didnt mix with the powder combustion to spread lube mixed with the soot left on the barrel. he advises either wax paper over powder under the cookie or bee foundation under the cookie as thes would combust or melt and allow the cookie to do its thing with the powder fouling. im just repeating what ive found here and passing it along to you.

the book im refering to from Mathews is 'THE PAPER JACKET'. if you dont have it...it helped me the second time thru it to absorb some of the foundations that im finding so usefull.

[catkiller45]

I certainly appreciate all the replies..If I can,I will load a fe more and run down to the range and try them...Will report if I do.....And thanks again...

[catkiller45]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_19434f50f35c3c74f.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=4205)


I hope this works.My first attempt at posting a picture...

Loaded only 7 rounds this morning and this is the load

Win fire formed case cci 200 large rifle primer

85 grains of goex cartridge
1-.022 veg wad compressed .112
paper patch Buff Arms 500 gr bullet lead
bullet in case .112 inch no neck tension
o.a.l =3,361 inch no cookie

one damp cotton ball 2 dry cotton's thru bore

Was 300 percent better than yesterday....I appreciate all the help from you guys..

So this PROVES ONE THING---A PEDERSOLI WILL SHOOT PAPER PATCH BULLETS..

[bigted]

very cool...congrats on the vast improvment...do tell what is different with this outting to get such good results.

[catkiller45]

very cool...congrats on the vast improvment...do tell what is different with this outting to get such good results.

I think the biggest thing that brought the biggest improvement was the damp patch followed by 2 dry ones..

It was agood time to try cotton balls like another guy mentioned..he said it was how H.Pope had done it..Believe me,it works..

The next thing I thing was not seating the bullet as deep as befor...I have to say for my second try with the paper patch bullets I was greatly impressed...

I will no doubt try this same load again,keeping everything the same and see how it goes..John:drinks:

[Chicken Thief]

Did you omit the greace cookie?

[catkiller45]

yes I left out the grease cookie.....I tried that same load again today with out much luck.That group opened to about 5 inchs at 100 yards..And any I was getting blow back around the cases..I tried the same wipeing proceture as well..
I think I am going to try some sized cases next time and see if there is any improvement,though I know it is going to reduce the powder charge..oh well....lol