New Indiana Deer Hunting Caliber.

[Hickory]

Yesterday a friend stopped over and we talked for a couple hrs.
Norm told me that he was having a rifle built to hunt deer in Indiana.
He said that those in charge of the game laws there gave a description
of the caliber and length of the cartridges that can be used to hunt deer in Indiana.
He said that his rifle will be 357 caliber built on a fat case like the 378 Wetherby and no longer then it has to be to be legal. He seems to think he will be able to get 2200fps or more with a 200gr bullet.

Illinois did something a few years and the result was a new cartridge by Mike Bellm in the link below.
I always like it when those try to restrict what you can do, out fox them selves.

http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=106

[Spector]

The Indiana requirement is a minimum of 1.16'' and a maximim of 1.8'' case length and a minimum of .357 bullet diameter.

I have seen a shortened 7.62x54 case that was necked to 40 caliber. This, or the same case necked to .357, I believe, could be made to feed through a Mosin Nagant action with some magazine modifications that was rebarreled to 35 caliber. A 44 caliber on this case is easily doable.

Indiana's requiremnt until now has been a maximim case length of 1.625'' for rifles. In a pistol I think they go down to .243 WIN up through 45-70 and beyond.

It's origional intent was to allow centerfire pistol cartiridges in rifles, but they decided to simply go by case and bullet dimensions....which is all the wildcatters needed to start turning dreams into reality..........Mike

[Tokarev]

They want you to hunt deer with 357 mag, 41 mag or 44-40 in a rifle, but almost anything in a pistol? My brain is hurting.

[boltons75]

So if you don't have the required caliber, say you use a 30-06, or a 300 mag, and its your only rifle. Does this mean that you have to buy a new gun or not hunt?

Always carry, never tell.

[ilcop22]

Illinois: The state where you can kill a coyote with a Barrett 50 Cal, but you're going to jail if you shoot a deer with a rifle.

[rockrat]

357max out of a rifle should do 2200fps with a 200gr boolit

[DIRT Farmer]

Unless I missed somithing in the regs, the case has to be stright walled. As in a shortened 45-70 case with the boolit seated out.
I was told my 41 Swiss did not meet the standard because of the bottle neck but my 1859 Sharps with a paper cartridge did.

[W.R.Buchanan]

So a .44 magnum is OK? That would suit me just fine, but,,, Laws like this are pure stupidity and only have one goal, and that is to cut down on the number of hunters.

We have plenty of stupidity out here in CA where you can't hunt anything with a lead bullet in the Condor Sanctuary. The Condor Sanctuary runs form Monterey to the Grand Canyon!

That's 1/2 the state.

Now they are trying to class any bullet that doesn't have lead in it as Armor Piercing and thus, illegal to own, Which will send you to jail.

The only way to stop this Krap is to eliminate the politicians who are perpetrating these stupid laws.

Their only motivation is to eliminate the private ownership of guns so they can do whatever they want with impunity.

The biggest problem we face as a free society is too many people,,,

Because the more people you have the more laws you need to control them!

By definition, all laws restrict or eliminate freedom .

I think the cartridge idea is a good one, however the need for it is rediculous and shows that just because a person can talk a good line and get elected, doesn't mean he should be there.

No shortage of stupid people in this world. Too bad there is also so many stupid people that can vote!

Sorry to get of topic. Hate to miss a chance to voice my disgust with the political scene as we know it.

Randy

[Tokarev]

Hunt in Canada, we have way less **** in the regulations and overpopulation of deer and goose.
Friends are telling me that the flocks of ducks look rather like swarms now, that hunter numbers dropped.

[41 mag fan]

you can use a 460 in the rifle

[smkummer]

It appears to be a little too late for Indiana and other states to get back hunters once they are lost. I believe at one time the long range of some high power rounds were causing accidents in the close rural areas of some southern Indiana areas. It wasn't rocket science to allow pistol cartridges in rifles but it took way too many years for this to pass. Less and less youth are interested in hunting. States have counted on this revenue source that is in a downward swing and the awnser is NOT to raise fees but get less govt. involved. Its may come to the point that hunting may still require a permit, but that will be issued free of charge just to get hunters to thin the herd of over abundance of deer.

[303Guy]

The CA move is not stupid at all. It's a very cunning and sinister move! Very dangerous if you ask me.

In my part of the world we an department called DOC (dept of conservation) who will go out and massacre the deer if they get to be too many. Here hunters are encouraged to go out and shoot them. We do have far too many hunting 'accidents' but compared to the number of road deaths, who cares? Our road deaths are not 'accidental' either - just plain reckless and stupid, just like the hunting deaths. Sure, accidents can and do happen. But one can see who are going to make the accidents just by their attitude and behaviour on the road or with a gun.

[elkhuntfever]

Illinois: The state where you can kill a coyote with a Barrett 50 Cal, but you're going to jail if you shoot a deer with a rifle.

In Indiana we can hunt wild hogs with a tank every day of the year but are limited on guns we can hunt deer with. Yes, according to the DNR there is a pocket of wild hogs in the Southwest part of the state. Any hog not in a pen is considered wild according to the person I talked to.

[DIRT Farmer]

I own some timber ground in the Pigon bottoms where the hogs "are". As with most rural people a pig pickin is as good as get togathers get, I never got in on the hog hunt because they were shot out before they spread. The heard of feral goats now was another matter but due to over hunting they now are gone.

Indiana was/is a shotgun deer hunting state. I went to a muzzleloader because the old style slugs ware a great 25 yard shooter in most guns. There have been requests for other equipment/ rifles however the land owners will not ever approve what most consider high power deer rifles, me included. And I wish the regs were round ball only in muzzle loaders. The population denisity is to high here and the land to flat when some one turns loose a high power round.

As for the goverment conspirisary theroy, the idea is to sell more tags. The DNR is supported by linsence sales, no general fund money.

[Spector]

There is nothing in the old cartridge regs that say anything about straight wall pistol cases that I recall seeing. I showed my Veterli cartridge to two Indiana conservation officers from two different counties and they both said it was legal. If a conservation officer sees a problem with the Vetterli case then he is just one of those governmet types we all hate to see coming. If he got you in court he'd ultimately lose if you had the to money to pursue it through the process.

Unless there was something new added to the language when they increased the cartridge case length to 1.8'' then bottle-neck cartridges are indeed legal to use and id fact were used last year.

Indiana's deer hunting regs concerning allowed weapons and calibers is getting better, albeit at a slow torturous rate.

There were still those who just do not want centerfire rifles used, even though traditional centerfire rifle cartridges have been used in specialty pistols for years in Indiana. These regs are just incremental advances toward sanity. At 65 I expect to be dead and gone before sanity rules, but still I'm happy that the effort is being made to get there.

Indiana has allowed concealed carry since either 1937 or 1938. There is no training required. A right that requires government oversight in training is no right at all, but a government granted privilege. I have a lifetime permit. It is still government oversight, but we are a ''shall issue'' state and come closer to sanity than most states on this issue.

The 44-40 and a shortened 45-70 case are neither straight walled..........Mike

[Max Brand]

So if you don't have the required caliber, say you use a 30-06, or a 300 mag, and its your only rifle. Does this mean that you have to buy a new gun or not hunt?

Always carry, never tell.

Yep, that's the way it's written but shotguns are okay.

[fireball168]

He said that his rifle will be 357 caliber built on a fat case like the 378 Wetherby and no longer then it has to be to be legal.


www.bfgcartridges.com

It is what we do.

[ilcop22]

Hunt in Canada, we have way less **** in the regulations and overpopulation of deer and goose.
Friends are telling me that the flocks of ducks look rather like swarms now, that hunter numbers dropped.

Oh, we're WAY overpopulated with deer and "Canadian" geese round here. Up in Cook County (You may have heard of it; Chicago resides in Cook County and runs the entire state of Illinois from their high thrones), the deer overpopulation is so bad, chronic waste disease (CWD) is an epidemic; the forest preserves are being torn up; you can count at least a dozen just driving along one of the preserves any time you drive by; etc. As for geese? There are so many where I live you can't walk anywhere near a body of water without wading through ****. I don't know why they call them Canadian geese - They never leave - nor do I understand why they're still protected under federal migratory bird laws. They don't migrate. Needless to say, we hate geese and the counties hire mercenaries to cull deer herds annually - but they won't let us hunt them in parts, and only under strict guidelines. I missed ML season this past year because I had the flu - and it's only a 3 day season.

Steppin' off my soap box...

[218bee]

I hunt Illinois deer with a 357Maximum and it does very well.
I dont quite understand the "ban" on rifles when its ok to use a "muzzleloader" with 150grs of black powder/ or a smokeless "muzzleloader" like the savage, with a 4-16x scope and guys assuming they can kill a deer at 400yds.
When they first came about with the muzzleloader season here I think the intent was percussion/flint, with round or conical ball and dude wearing coonskin cap and buckskin outfit.
Come a helluva way since then.

[303Guy]

The Indiana requirement is a minimum of 1.16'' and a maximim of 1.8'' case length and a minimum of .357 bullet diameter.
There must be a heap of old Lee Enfield's in Indiana. Those would make a perfect deer rifle using the 303 Brit case as a base for a 41 cal with the case being made by cutting off the shoulder. Case capacity would be quite high as the boolit wouldn't need to be seated too deep.

This is the case cut to 1.8".
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/41-303002.jpg

[Tokarev]

41 Indiana super mag? ;)

Truly 303 british case is a treasure, I use them to make 442 Webley Long/Short and 44 SW American cases.
410 hulls made out of 303 british also a cheap replacement for factory hulls.

[303Guy]

How hard would it be to rifle a 410 barrel? Some of these 410's have quite a stoat barrel and breach. Are rifled shotgun slug guns legal in Indiana? If they are then one could use Brit cases and a decent boolit but housed completely within the case so that it's still a 'shotgun slug'.

But that 41 Indiana Super Magnum should be good (or simply 41 Indiana). Cheap rifles, don't know about the cost of barrel re-boring or replacement, original mags should still work.

By the way, there is another neat cartridge out there for the Lee Enfield, that's JeffinNZ's very own 303 Pigmy. He shortened the Brit case and reformed it back to 303. Re-chambering of the barrel involves removing most of the threaded portion of the breach and starting again, so the new threads are full. This allows for a very long cast or other boolit/bullet to be seated that still fits the magazine - 240gr I think he uses.

[Tokarev]

By rifling 410 bore gun you are getting a 444 Marlin :)

[toolz568]

I still like the Bushmaster 450, but I can't find anyone who makes a barrel for a bolt action. Second would be the 458 x 2 or 458 American.

ogotz

[BD]

ogotz, There are a couple of .450B bolt actions out there. Search the site at

http://450bushmaster.net/

and you should turn up the info.

[BD]

ogotz, There are a couple of .450B bolt actions out there. Search the site at

http://450bushmaster.net/

and you should turn up the info.