So, Gonna Try Pan Lubing a Bit

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

While I ruminate over the blackpowder-friendly lube I've been working on, figured I'd make some pan lube with ingredients I know.

Cooked this up:

40% beeswax

40% paraffin

10% Lee Alox (not really liquid any longer, but old enough to be sort of a gel)

10% Marvel Mystery Oil

Also am in the process of making a cake cutter.

I really need a fired, non-resized .45 Colt case or better, but for now a cut off 7.62x54R shell will suffice. Had a heck of a time getting it sized right though!

Put a short .45 muzzleloader ramrod tip in there, and as soon as I find a section of cleaning rod I know I have around here someplace, I'll have me a plunger. After I thread the outside and put a nut and washer on it, I'll have me a spring loaded plunger! :redneck:

Now, I was looking at those cutters for $25 or so, but man, been spending way too much on casting lately. I'm out of rifle powder because of this! Forgot to budget it in!

Thoughts on my initial mixture? It's slick as snot and stands high temps. Figure I'll adjust as needed.

Josh

[filric48]

That looks like the same one I did...

[Josh Smith]

Really? Where? Published?

How did it work for you?

Are you talking about the lube or the cutter?

I don't want to be stealing anyone's invention here, claiming it for myself. Just threw together a bunch of stuff I had laying around that I figured would work.

Josh

[Reg]

Good place to start. Never tried adding Marvel Mystery Oil but if it works as good in lube as it does in vehicles it should help.
Before you get too into a cake cutter, try letting the bullets in the lube set up then set into a freezer for a bit then take out , let warm for a bit then pop whole thing out of your pan and try pushing the bullets through from the tip. Works for me. Only thing I found is do not set the bullets too close together or sometimes pushing one out will break loose the lube on a bullet near it. Very, very seldom does the lube slip out of a groove and then its usually because it has warmed back up too much.

:drinks:

[Ben]

Joshua M. Smith :

40% beeswax

40% paraffin

Those 2 materials are pretty hard when solid, even with the other 20% , that is going to be some very hard lube.

Ben

[mktacop]

Hello,

While I ruminate over the blackpowder-friendly lube I've been working on, figured I'd make some pan lube with ingredients I know.

Cooked this up:

40% beeswax

40% paraffin

10% Lee Alox (not really liquid any longer, but old enough to be sort of a gel)

10% Marvel Mystery Oil

Also am in the process of making a cake cutter.

I really need a fired, non-resized .45 Colt case or better, but for now a cut off 7.62x54R shell will suffice. Had a heck of a time getting it sized right though!

Put a short .45 muzzleloader ramrod tip in there, and as soon as I find a section of cleaning rod I know I have around here someplace, I'll have me a plunger. After I thread the outside and put a nut and washer on it, I'll have me a spring loaded plunger! :redneck:

Now, I was looking at those cutters for $25 or so, but man, been spending way too much on casting lately. I'm out of rifle powder because of this! Forgot to budget it in!

Thoughts on my initial mixture? It's slick as snot and stands high temps. Figure I'll adjust as needed.

Josh

I have a few fired, non-sized .45 Colt cases on my bench. PM me your address and I'll send you a couple for your project.

[Capn Jack]

I made a cutter for my .458 Boolits out of an -06 case. Cut the neck where you need it to slip over the boolit. Bevel it to an edge and cut off the base. The end of the case will fit into a 5/8" hose union (for a handle) and a piece of wooden dowel longer than the cutter to push them out with the palm of your hand.

I heat my boolits as I found the lube will tend to peal off if you cold dip them.

Cut them from the pan, or dip with a curved pair of forceps.

Jack...:coffeecom

[Sonnypie]

I tried Marvel Misery Oil once. Followed the directions exactly.
Had to rebuild my Small Block when #2 rod bearing said bye-bye. (#2 was notorious for going)
It wasn't the cleaning I thought it would give the engine. :o :lol:

I tried pan lubing with some lube I was testing for a friend. I thought it was kind of a messy method, myself. I probably wiped more on my shop towels from my fingers that wound up on the bullets.
So I got me a crock pot, tried the ranch dip method, and wound up very happy with my current hot dip bullet lube, and using the plastic racks from boxes to dip 50 at a time.

Works for me, and worked for a friend trying it in a 30-30. Good reports.

California Nut Gloob
Here it is in a nutshell. And you are welcome to it, if you'd like.

Pictures: http://s1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/Sonnypie/Boolit%20Gloob/

A spin-off of The Ranch Dipping method of loobing....

OK.
So I got intrigued enough to actually go down to my local Goodwill Store and found a great smaller crock pot. The crock is even brown so it coordinates with the loob?
$5.99, I couldn't pass it up.

On low setting (http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/Sonnypie/Boolit%20Gloob/california-nut-loob1.jpg). On high it runs 230-250*F

I dumped all the LLA I had in it. :-| Nowhere near enough.....
So I decided to add the pan loob to it. While melting it out of the soup can it was in, I got the torch too close to the warm loob....
The lid for the crock pot did an admirable job of smothering the resulting bonfire. :rolleyes: :lol:
So the soup blended well and I had enough gloob to start dipping boolits. It worked right along, only a few "fall overs". Humm... need to improve on this.
30 cal boolits are kinda tough to stand upright.
So I decided to experiment with one of my range find ammo trays (http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/Sonnypie/Boolit%20Gloob/california_nut_loob2.jpg) w/open support bottoms from some Zombie shooters. I racked up 50 boolits and dipped the whole tray to cover the loob gooves and set it on my Abloominum cookie sheet to chill out.


In just a few minutes I was able to use my kookie kutter (http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/Sonnypie/Boolit%20Gloob/loob_tools1.jpg) to extract the boolits from the rack. Hey, this is fun and profitable!


Most of the excess stayed with the plastic rack when removed from the sheet. A dip and swoosh in the hot loob melted it back into the pot.
So I continued along that idea. The next day I added a fat candle remnant the wife had tossed out to the pot (About 2 1/2" X 2" tall), and stirred. (For paraffin wax)
You have to chant as well: "Peas porridge cold, peas porridge hot, poof now your boolit lube, simmering in the pot." Otherwise, it won't work.
The wax made stiffer loob in the filled grooves. I like what I'm getting, and it moves along well because it sets quickly.


Another thing I'm doing is putting checks in the cup trays I found, and setting them to the bullets before dipping. http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/Sonnypie/Gas%20Checks/PA270288.jpg


After dipping, and kake kutting, I run them through the sizer. Sets the checks, sizes the boolit, and scrapes away more of the excess loob. (Which I try and save to put back in the pot to remelt)
After sizing, the 170g boolits fit well nose down in a cup tray so I can wipe the bases with a solvented shop towel to clean them.


Then I pick them up and wipe the tips clean and either rack them, or pile them in a loaf pan for loading.


Plenty of loob, clean bases, and clean noses.


I've added some more ingredients. A big gob of: JPW (2 Oz), Luberplate 630-AA (2 Oz), 1/4 Lb of paraffin wax for fast setting and stiffening, and the ingredient that gave it a name... Peanut oil (1 cup). It stopped the smoking of the mixture.

So what is this junk? California Nut Gloob.
And it's on a batch of boolits going to the range tomorrow for testing.
It sets fast so the boolits can be worked with quickly. A big plus!

4 ounces of LLA (Lee Liquid Alox)
4 ounces of JPW (Johnson's Paste Wax)
6 ounces of MJ Pan and Lubersizer loob (Thanks Michael!)
2 ounces of Luberplate 630-AA grease (White lube grease)
1/2 pound of paraffin wax (Approx)(Canning supplies)
1 cup of Peanut Oil (Do NOT use if allergic to peanuts. Use canola oil)(Raid the turkey fryer oil)

Put the above in a crock pot you will never want to use for food ever again.
Melt together stirring occasionally, covered, outside or in your shop.
Dip cast bullets in this conglomeration and use a kake kutter to extract from the excess.
I spend quite a bit of time cleaning these so I don't have to do a lot of cleaning of my reloading equipment when loading them.
Then my last step is always to wipe down my rounds with a rag dampened with solvent to clean them.
Ready to rock N roll...

[Capn Jack]

When I dip my Boolits, I handle them with a pair of curved surgical hemostats and wipe the bases across a paper towel before setting them on some wax paper.

I'm try to avoid any chances of powder contamination.:oops:

I had to quit using tumble lube as it would build up in the seater and had to be scraped out every dozen rounds, or so. Build up can still be a problem with any lube, but wax comes out easier.;)

Jack...:cool:

[Sonnypie]

I started off the same way Jack.
Had a good run going, then dominoes. (And I don't mean pizza)
I have honed down a pretty good system to lube, size, and prep that ensures clean bases and clean noses.
I don't want contaminated powder neither.

Ready to load...
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/Sonnypie/Boolit%20Gloob/california_nut-loobed_boolits.jpg

[Capn Jack]

Sonny,

The only casting I do is .357 and .458, so my "Tip" factor is a lot lower
than yours.:wink:

Jack...8-)

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

Brought the stuff in from the garage. Its temp is about 40 degrees.

It's not even as thick as Play-do. I have it sitting under a flood lamp right now to see if there are mineral spirits in it that need to evaporate (though I figure they would have while stirring).

The attached pictures are of the lube applied with my finger. The first one, dull colored, has been tumble-lubed many times with different ingredients and got washed off for this.

The shiny bullet is a reject. The base didn't fill out all the way and you can see a couple other flaws I didn't like.

Judging from the shiny pics, I need to make it stick better. However, I did clean up that shiny boolit with a paper towel and can't swear it didn't get into the lube grooves. Still, I figure before ordering lanolin I'll check with the fiance. She has more skin care products than I knew existed, and I'm sure I even saw some nipple cream stuff around there!

She gave me some mink oil, which some use on muzzleloader patches. Going to try cutting beeswax with it for my BP lube. I digress.

If you look at the top of the boolit, the bottom, and the grooves, it looks like the grooves are pretty well isolated in the case. If that's true, I'd have no problem keeping this consistency as long as it doesn't melt easily. I don't think it will, but more testing is needed.

I'll try to cast and load some boolits today sometime and see what happens.

Regards,

Josh

[MBTcustom]

Im confused. You say you are mixing up some BP lube, but the recipe reminds me of smokeless stuff. You whip up this stuff, but then you show it being used on a TL boolit. Why not use a GG boolit with a deeper groove? Why not use a water based lube for BP?
And most finally, can you tell me what boolit #2 ever did to you, and more importantly, what did you do to it!?! I have never laid eyes on so pitiful a specimen. It looks sandblasted to me. This is boolit abuse![smilie=l:

[DLCTEX]

That #2 is one gnarley lookin boolit! I don't know what you are attempting to show in the pics. Is it the width of the bottom band to give separation from lube to powder? There is not any lube in the grooves which will be a problem without tumble lube IMHO. Better panlube with a good sticking lube and use a cutter if you want to have any lube left on that tumble lube boolit.

[MBTcustom]

Poor #2....

[Capn Jack]

:holysheep You didn't happen to get some zinc in the mix did you ?:sad:

Jack...8-)

[mdi]

When I first read your post I thought you were pan lubing regular lube groove bullets. While standard lube may work on T/L bullets, when I tried it there was very little lube left in the grooves, didn't shoot any. With your ingredients I would suggest thinning the alox with mineral spirits, adding some JPW and tumble lubing your bullets. For a wax lube, bees wax softened with Marvel's Mystery Oil has been used (I don't think the MMO would dry when used in a tumble lube). With your recipe, I'd drop the MMO and add vaseline to soften...

For a cutter I found a piece of stainless steel tubing (7/16" ID IIRC) and drilled/honed out the ID to 29/64" for my .45 caliber bullets.

[MBTcustom]

The problem with T/Ling those boolits is that hes shooting BP. T/L aint worth a tinkers curse (i've heard) with BP.

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

I'm planning to shoot it in both.

Have given up on the blackpowder mix for right now. Will probably use 1/2 beeswax, 1/4 lanolin, and 1/4 mink oil for that. That's the next mixture anyway.

This is a stopgap measure for .45acp smokeless.


:holysheep You didn't happen to get some zinc in the mix did you ?:sad:

Jack...8-)


That #2 is one gnarley lookin boolit! I don't know what you are attempting to show in the pics. Is it the width of the bottom band to give separation from lube to powder? There is not any lube in the grooves which will be a problem without tumble lube IMHO. Better panlube with a good sticking lube and use a cutter if you want to have any lube left on that tumble lube boolit.

I'm attempting to show the lube in the grooves.

I'm also showing why I am no longer a fan of tumble lubing. Every bullet I've ever tumble lubed looks like that under magnification. I think it may add to fouling due to increased surface area and perhaps decreased size.

I'm OK with tumble lube itself, but won't be shaking the pan all that much, at least not as instructed by Lee!

Regards,

Josh

[DanWalker]

One source for a perfect size pot to heat your lube in for the RD style of dipping, is Wally world.
They sell a crockpot that comes in a set with a little bitty mini crockpot. They are made by Hamilton Beach and run around 10 to 20 bucks for the set. Just give the big crockpot to momma and keep the little one for loob.

[MBTcustom]

I use a tuna-fish can (empty of course:)). I bought a cheap burner from Freds grocery for about $12. I just put the tuna can full of lube on the burner and set it on low. In about 15-20 minutes the lube is melted and ready to go. Milkman uses a tuna can on an old coffee pot to melt his lube. Definitely no chance of burning your lube and it has an automatic cut off, but I am a cheap sort of guy and I couldn't find a coffee pot at goodwill for less than $12. Not only that, but I use the same burner on a higher setting to preheat my molds.

[Josh Smith]

I use a tuna-fish can (empty of course:)). I bought a cheap burner from Freds grocery for about $12. I just put the tuna can full of lube on the burner and set it on low. In about 15-20 minutes the lube is melted and ready to go. Milkman uses a tuna can on an old coffee pot to melt his lube. Definitely no chance of burning your lube and it has an automatic cut off, but I am a cheap sort of guy and I couldn't find a coffee pot at goodwill for less than $12. Not only that, but I use the same burner on a higher setting to preheat my molds.

Hello,

That's a good idea, as is the inexpensive crockpot. Going to have to look at both.

I just received an old hotplate I got for next-to-nothing, but its only setting is high and so after heating things up, I turn it off, wait for it to cool a bit, then drop the lube in.

Need to rig up a rheostat if I can find one that will handle the current. (Grew up with electricity folks; Dad is an electrical engineer and I was doing Ohm's Law and such for fourth-grade projects. Also, I have some maintenance electrician training from back when I was in college.)

Have the lube and boolits cooling now... we'll see what they look like, or shoot like, more importantly, when I cut them out.

Thanks!

Josh

[Josh Smith]

Looks like it worked well enough. I'd like to try making the new cutter before changing the mixture to something harder as it's very easy to wipe the base off!

Will go harder if needed, though. Cuts easily.

Going to go try to load some up before it gets too dark, to see what they do!

Josh

[Josh Smith]

Well, powder fouling only! I've not cleaned the lead up yet that was already in the barrel, but it appears to be coming out!

Fun stuff!

Josh

[Josh Smith]

Update: Changed the formula a bit. One more paraffin tea candle and one red crayon.

More adhesive now. Will load and shoot later today. Hope you all don't mind me using this thread as my personal log!

Anyone know what is in hot glue sticks? Sodium stearate or something?

Thanks,

Josh

[DLCTEX]

Are you saying that #2 looks that way due to being beaten up tumble lubing? If so you are missing the "swirl" (not shaking) part of tumble lubing. Just make the boolits roll with circular motions and a few seconds will get them evenly coated.

[Josh Smith]

Are you saying that #2 looks that way due to being beaten up tumble lubing? If so you are missing the "swirl" (not shaking) part of tumble lubing. Just make the boolits roll with circular motions and a few seconds will get them evenly coated.

Hello,

I get that. Even when I swirl them, they rub against each other.

Used to cast from almost pure lead and am back to it. They do deform relatively easily.

I like pan lubing better, anyway. Just looks good I think!

Josh