25-20 loads not working....help !

[atr]

Im shooting a savage 25B 25-20....
with 65 gr GC sized at .2575 and 9 gr of H4227 I am getting 5 shot 3/4" groups at 75 yards......

now here is the problem...
I have a 90 gr plain base again sized .2575 and loaded with 7.5 Gr of H4227....
at 25 yards I am getting a nice tight 5 shot group which I can cover with a quarter...
BUT at 50 yards they spread out all over the target and they keyhole...
I am wondering if I am pushing them out to slow ?

any thoughts would be appreciated...

thanks
atr

[ajjohns]

Well, not a 100% but I'd say yes they're going too slow. Your twist?? I'm not sure of but in a Winchester 92 the longer bullet at slow speed causes problems.

[Larry Gibson]

Should be a 14" twist in the 25B, it is in mine anyways. The 257420 shoots about the same out of mine as yours with that very load. My 257283HP (PB'd) weighs 80 gr and does quite well to 90 yards when started at 1100 fps (I cast them very soft for deadly expansion on small critters and that is max velocity for accuracy). It begins to lose it at 100 yards and gets pretty hopeless very quickly after that. The 14" twist is just to slow for the heavier bullets. I suspect that is the case with your 90 gr PB'd bullets also.

Larry Gibson

[JeffinNZ]

There was really good article in the CBA Fouling Shot about .25-20 and cast. The writer had massive problems with cast and it came down to a FAT throat and leade from memory.

[ajjohns]

There's a huge write up on marlinowners.com website about the 25/20. Very informative and it talks of many different rifles and many kinds of boolits. From Contenders to Savages like yours. I learned a whole bunch, it's a lot of reading (like 50 pages?) but there's probably no other place like it about the 25/20.

[Carolina Cast Bullets]

Try an 85/90 grain boolit, sized .258" and push it with IMR4198

I use 9.5 grains with the RDO gascheck. under 1" at 50 yards. Havent run it out to 100

Believe 50 is about its usable range. JMHO

Jerry
Carolina Cast Bullets

[square butte]

I might even try .2585 or .259. Fill the throat

[atr]

I did try .259....worse than terrible...so went back to .2575 as that seem to work very well with my 65 gr cast.
I have shot 86 gr J-s with 9 gr of 4227 and they shot very well at 75 yards....3/4x1 5 shot group..so I was hoping to get that with these 90 gr boolits
seems like the twist may be too slow as Larry suggested....and I think the velocity is too slow with 7.5 Gr of 4227.....next attempt will be with 9 gr of 4227

atr

[Bret4207]

Interesting. I have 2 23B's. Haven't done all that much with cast in them really, but mine seem to digest about everything like it's candy. Can't recall how heavy i went though. Thanks for the info!

[LtFrankDrebbin]

+1 on what ajjohns said, could almost say there is a text book it the making for the 25/20 on marlin owners, reloading section.
The more input the beter

[atr]

UPDATE ..
This morning I fired 5 rounds at 50 yards...got a good tight pattern,,,,no evidence of keyholing....was using 9.5 grains of 4227
I will push it to 10 grains next try and will keep you posted

[atr]

OK,,,got the charge up to 9.8 grains of 4227
no keyholing at 50 or 75 yards
best 5 shot group at 50 yds 1.25"x1.75"
best 5 shot group at 75 yds 2.0" x 1.75"
not as good as I would like,,,,
I did notice that the 4227 burned cleaner with the higer density load of (9.8gr)
my old Lyman manual give 10.7grains as max with 4227 and a 85 gr boolit. My boolit are weighing in at 90gr, so I figure I am approaching the max loading for this cartridge

atr

[LtFrankDrebbin]

Have you had a look over on Marlin owners yet? A lot a info there.
If you have any 4198 on hand that works well also.
Good to hear it's getting better.

[Carolina Cast Bullets]

Try this page

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/reloading/26002-25-20-reloaders.html

Jerry
Carolina Cast Bullets

[Three44s]

I worked with a 23B in .25-20 for a little while in J-words.

It did not take me long to figure out it liked 4198 better than 4227!

I'd try 4198 if were me!!

Three 44s

[Bret4207]

You may also want to check your bedding. A heavier boolit is going to make the rifle react differently than a lighter boolit. Could be a little movement in play.

[Good Cheer]

Mine has a heavy pit not far in front of the chamber and that's what I've thought the problem is. I will try the 4198. Would probably benefit from trimming a couple inches off the barrel and recrowning.
http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/25-20Savage.jpg

[ajjohns]

Oh my, what a beautiful little setup! Get it shootin, that one looks like fun! I use imr 4198 in mine works good too.