So...Bottom Pour Or Dip?

[Blue Hill]

Mucho Newb.
I've yet to cast my first Boolit and am gathering equipment. What I have right now will let me fill my mould by dipping. It works not bad for casting ingots and I've smelted and cleaned my WW's and soft lead. I'm now waiting for a set of mould handles to arrive so have not yet run any Boolits, but as I read your various posts, I couldn't help but notice that there seems to be two definate schools of thought on how the moulds get filled. I would very much like to know from some of you, what method you use and why. Bottom pour, or dipper. Pros and Cons.
Thanks folks! :guntootsmiley:

[geargnasher]

I do both, each has it's "best" place, but that's up to the individual.

Very large boolits or very LONG boolits seem to do best with a bottom-pour ladle like Lyman sells for $20, it's a good one.

You can ladle-cast anything, but bottom pouring works best with 100-300 grain boolits that are not too terribly long, much faster production than a ladle.

If you don't have a pot, start off with a ladle and saucepan until you learn the ropes, and when you're interested in buying a casting furnace, get a bottom pour and you have the choice to cast either way.

Gear

[canyon-ghost]

I ladle using two cavity molds. Some of the old Lyman molds are fantastic, even for obsolete antiques. Why not bottom pour and use 6 cavity molds? Simple, I cast for an afternoon with a two cavity and have 250-400 bullets that will make match weight. It's a lot of bullets. My reloading room is indoors so, I can finish the process anytime I like. I'm not retired yet so, I don't usually shoot more than 50 to 100 at a time.
It's a lot of bullets.

[Mk42gunner]

Gear pretty much hit the nail on the head:
I do both, each has it's "best" place, but that's up to the individual.

I like the RCBS ladle, the fin on the bottom lets me open a clear path in the alloy to dip from.

If you go the saucepan (not aluminum) and ladle route, I would recommend using an electric hotplate for the heat source. Coleman stoves give off a lot of heat when you have a qurt or so of melted lead on them.

If you want to get a bottom pour and still ladle from it, the Lee 4-20 has plenty of room for using a ladle.

Robert

[mooman76]

I been ladle pouring for 40 years and see no need for me to change now. It does good for me and I've gotten pretty fast over time. I have no real problems associated with it. Obviously I can't say anything objective on bottom pouring because I have never done it or even seen it done actually. Some tend to like it and some don't. They both have their merits.

[Jammer Six]

BESIDES, I CAN DRIVE NAILS FASTER WITH MY OLE' 16 OZ STANLEY THAN YOU CAN WITH THAT NAIL GUN!

Oh, sorry, did I say that out loud?

[Horace]

Bottom poured for 30 years with lee drip-o-matics now it`s time to dip afew.
Horace

[geargnasher]

BESIDES, I CAN DRIVE NAILS FASTER WITH MY OLE' 16 OZ STANLEY THAN YOU CAN WITH THAT NAIL GUN!

Oh, sorry, did I say that out loud?

Just imagine how fast you could drive nails if you threw that Stanley in the trash and bought an Estwing!

Gear

[Mal Paso]

BESIDES, I CAN DRIVE NAILS FASTER WITH MY OLE' 16 OZ STANLEY THAN YOU CAN WITH THAT NAIL GUN!

Oh, sorry, did I say that out loud?

See, I would have gone for the 32 oz Vaughn.

You'll do fine ladle casting. :kidding:

[Bob Krack]

BESIDES, I CAN DRIVE NAILS FASTER WITH MY OLE' 16 OZ STANLEY THAN YOU CAN WITH THAT NAIL GUN!

Oh, sorry, did I say that out loud?Believe it or not, my buddy John Porter, carpenter's carpenter was approached by a pesky pneumatic nailgun salesman and was goaded into a race (framing). My airgun against your hammer.

To make a long story short, after 4 hours they both finished within 30 seconds of each either.

If ya like one, use it, if ya don't, DON'T. Whichever ya do, go right ahead and do it without trying to belittle someone else. Sorry I if I am coming across wrong, I just hate to see the yellow rain.

Bob

[Mal Paso]

Believe it or not, my buddy John Porter, carpenter's carpenter was approached by a pesky pneumatic nailgun salesman and was goaded into a race (framing). My airgun against your hammer.

To make a long story short, after 4 hours they both finished within 30 seconds of each either.



If the salesman was working on the carpenter's job, then the carpenter won.

[Bret4207]

BP casting is slower than death for me. I hate trying to line up the nozzle with the sprue holes. I admit, a BP seems like it would be easier somehow, but so far it's not for me.

[btroj]

Bet hit on the key right there, it depends upon what works for you!
Dedicated ladle casters will never like a bottom pour, I have never used anything but a bottom pour and have no desire to change.

In many cases this is the ultimate Ford/Chevy arguement. People on both sides can list advantages, in the end it is up to the individual to decide.

[Sonnypie]

I've done both.
But my preference and current method is with a Lee Pro IV.
Mine as dripped on occasion, but I fixed mine.

So far I haven't spilled a ladle of lead from the IV on my bare foot like I did as a kid with a ladle.
But then, I don't cast bare foot like I did as a kid either. (Shoes were for school)
(You ain't danced until you've danced with hot lead hitting your bare feet!)

[375RUGER]

right now I'm a ladle caster but I would like to get a bottom pour. On a 6 cavity mold I pour 3 then redip and pour the other 3. largest thing I'm casting now is 265g.
Important thing is to be able to keep the pot temp up where it needs to be. that is why I need to get an electric furnace or at least get my ceramic hotplate out of the storage, the propane burner I'm using now isn't quite enough.
If you get a bottom pour, you have the option to pour both ways.

[Rockchucker]

The only thing I dip is Skoal Wintergreen When I'm casting, heehee, Joking aside I've never used a ladle except pouring ingots, some folks swear by this, I just never tried it.

[MikeS]

I would say to learn with a ladle (dipper) first. Once you're able to cast good boolits with a ladle, then get a bottom pour pot (the Lee 4-20 is one I would recommend), and start using that method of casting. by doing this you start by learning the more basic method of casting, and that gives you something to fall back on. If you're bottom pouring with a Lee 4-20 (or most any other pot), and for whatever reason the nozzle clogs up in the middle of a casting session, and you don't want to stop and clean it out, all you have to do is reach for your trusty ladle (which you might not have if you never learned to use one), and keep on going! It's also good to know both methods of casting, so you can use either one you want, and some moulds just work better with one method, or the other.

[Mk42gunner]

Bret and MikeS both have very good points-- It is hard to see what you are doing with bottom pour spouts. The Lee 4-20 is pretty hard to se the spout because it is about an inch behind the front edge of the pot. The RCBS Promelt is a lot easier to see the spout, there is an angle at the front of the pot, but it is still kind of hard to see.

Robert

[dragonrider]

I bottom pour, it's fast and clean, I have tried ladle pouring, for me, is glacialy slow and messy, and I just can't understand why I would want to introduce another step in getting lead from my pot into my mold.

[Ola]

Dragonrider said it like it is.

I started with ladle and used it couple of years, and was quite happy with it. But then I got the bottom pour LEE and haven't touched the ladle since.

[gwpercle]

Blue Hill
I started with an open pot and dipper. the kind with a little spout to fit the sprue hole. After many years I decided to get an affordable Lee bottom pour pot and improve my output. Didnt work out for me... although I can cast more with bottom pour the number of rejects increased . Learning how to use that bottom pour was an exercise in frushtration . I never got the hang of it... of course I never had a gang mould either.
What I found works best for me is to use two 2 cavity moulds , they don't have to be the same boolit , fill the first and set it down to cool while filling the second, just keep alternating filling and cooling. All my moulds are steel... they hold heat well and can be set down for the sprue to cool... I have never tried this with alumnimum moulds.
using this method gets me more, quality bullets with less rejects than bottom pouring. I discovered having a bunch of poorly made bullets wasnt conductive to accurate shooting. I go slow and try for the best boolits I can make.

Good Luck......gary

[Freightman]

BESIDES, I CAN DRIVE NAILS FASTER WITH MY OLE' 16 OZ STANLEY THAN YOU CAN WITH THAT NAIL GUN!

Oh, sorry, did I say that out loud?
Might be about 20 years ago but now my shoulder and hands hurt with screaming pain with each blow, and my fingers get numb.

[Jammer Six]

Might be about 20 years ago but now my shoulder and hands hurt with screaming pain with each blow, and my fingers get numb.

You wouldn't have, by chance, used large, metal-handled hammers your whole career, did you?

(Just a guess, I'm no MD, and it's the only thing that occurs to me now, sitting here in my recliner.)

[Sonnypie]

"for me, is glacialy slow and messy,"

Durn. Now that right there is slow. :lol:

[GT27]

I started with a ladle, 20 sessions, and then decided on a Lee Pro Pot bottom pour,less effort and motion="Hello I'm GT27 and I am a lazaholic!"

[MikeS]

It seems that some people just can't get the hang of bottom pouring. It seems that some people just can't get the hang of ladle pouring. I can do either, but I do prefer bottom pouring. I also prefer 4 cavity brass moulds, so perhaps that has something to do with it.

[Echo]

I recently used a ladle for the first time in about 40 years. Had to cast up a few pure 8mm RB's for a chum to slug a barrel, and cast a few pure Pb 8mm Max boolits for throat measurement on a M98. Used my old Lee 4-lb steel pot, on the kitchen stove, just like 40 years ago. Otherwise, it has been bottom-pour for 39 years.

[slohunter]

I'll stick to my 20 lb open pot and ladle.

[12DMAX]

I will tell you this, I am also new at casting and bought a bottom pour pot and struggled with it keeping crud out of my bullets, could not get good fillout and battled with spout freeze. Bought a 20lb ladle pot and a RCBS dipper and and have NO troubles with crud. I pressure pour my moulds and could not be happier with the results. No doubt I still have alot to learn, what that dipper did was give confidence.

[3006guns]

Well, if you haven't actually cast any boolits yet, why spend the money for a bottom pour pot? Just get a cast iron pot and dipper then go for it, "getting your feet wet" so to speak. Heck, you could even use a small, cheap stainless steel salad bowl for a pot!

I've been using a bottom pour Saeco for quite a few years now but I'm going back to ladle casting for rifle boolits. I've noticed that when I use the bottom pour the lead roars into those long cavities and sticks like glue when the mold is opened. Smoking, etc. did no good.......the lead simply filled every microscopic nook and cranny with tremendous speed. A ladle wouldn't do that. Since I cast far fewer rifle boolits than pistol I'll unplug the bottom pour for awhile.:bigsmyl2:

[cal50]

Big bullets / big dipper.
Little bullets / bottom pour.

[Danderdude]

I used a ladle for a grand total of 2 hours when I first started. Ever since, I've had two Lee Pro 4-20's running side by side for when I'm cranking 'em with 6cav molds. I've poured everything from 70gr .225's to 500gr .45-70's without a single problem. Drips are easy to fix. The temp is easy to control if you can glance at the thermometer every couple of minutes. The darned things just work, both the 110v and 220v. The 220v is at or around 1000lbs of alloy poured so far with only one minor repair, a loose screw.

5 Lee's or 1 Pro-Melt. Your call.

[H.Callahan]

Why not do both? Get an inexpensive bottom pour and a ladle. Try both. If you like bottom pour, it is not much lost on the ladle (and a ladle can come in handy anyway from time to time), if you like ladling , plug the bottom pour and use it as a ladle pot.

Win-win.

[snuffy]

A few fine points missed by most of the others that replied.

There's ladles, and then there's casting ladles. By that I mean the difference between a ladle that's simply a bowl with a handle and MAYBE a lip to form the lead into a stream on the top edge. Then there's the boolit casting ladle that is a bottom pour,(takes the lead from UNDERNEATH the surface), then has a tapered spout that just happens to fit the sprue plate tapered hole.

Then there's two methods of casting with those ladles. One is simply pour the lead in a stream into the sprue hole, letting the excess flow off, back into the pot. Then stop pouring, allow the lead on top of the sprue plate to cool and harden. Best is to have the mold as level as possible so you form a good amount of sprue.

The second method is to use the bottom pour ladle by mating the tapered spout to the tapered hole in the sprue plate, thereby causing the lead in the ladle to pressurize the boolit cavity. You can do that by rotating the ladle quickly into a mold held level on top of the pot, hitting the sprue hole. Hold the ladle for a couple of seconds, then break the seal to allow some lead to flow, forming a sprue pool. A second method is to hold the mold to the spout on the ladle, then rotate the mold and ladle to the upright position. Again, breaking contact to form a sprue puddle.

Bottom pour pots are more versatile,,,---PERIOD! No argument there. For some things they work better, and are certainly faster. Especially when casting with molds of more than 2 cavities. Mostly for handgun boolits.

What do I use? BOTH! For most long rifle boolits, the pressure casting with the Lyman ladle is the way that I find best. Much fewer rejects, and more uniform weights. As for production, I don't shoot nearly as much rifle as I do handgun.

I second, third, or whatever count we're up to on the lee 20 pound bottom pour pot. It's top is big enough for most any CASTING ladle, and you still have the option to bottom pour. Coupled with a thermometer or controlled by a PID thermostat, they really are a great value.

[Rex]

I can cast a lot more boolits with a bottom pour is a shorter time but I have trouble getting round boolits with the bottom pour. I just can't seem to get the mold/melt temps right. I get a nicer, rounder boolit with the ladel. The flaw is me not the pot but the ladel is just easier for me if it is slower.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

someone posted here about bottom pour and six-cavity molds. That is the post that proves my point that match-grade boolits come by the ladle method. That's pistol boolits and plinking rounds, not accuracy focused. I would suggest marking your cavities sometime and segregating them. When you start weighing them, and measuring oal then ladling makes sense. When you want a rifle/load that shoots sub-moa every time out to the range at 100yds, use the ladle and cull ruthlessly.

My single shot Schuetzen rifle consistently shoots sub-moa 10-shot groups at 200M. Scoped, of course, but that just gets you into the Top Twenty most shoots from the bench.

Rich

[btroj]

In the end use what fits YOUR needs.
A ladle is probably better for long, heavy rifle bullets. The accuracy minded shooter isn't likely using a multi cavity mould for these bullets anyway.
For handguns a bottom pour gives better speed and a higher production rate.
I do have to say the guys using a 6 cav mould are not always making "plinking rounds, not accuracy focused". Many, many bullseye pistol shooters are using just such a mold, or worse, commercially made, machine poured bullets! They seem to shoot quite well to 50 yards, which is what is required of them.

I don't label, I don't weigh and cull. I also don't shoot matches. If I did, I might do otherwise. I fit the needs of the ammo to the work put into it. If someone wants to weigh and cull handgun bullets they are welcome to,do so, I prefer to shoot.

My suggestion, try both see what works for you. Just be sure YOU are doing what fits YOUR needs. If you are an IPSC shooter then trying to emulate a BPCR shooters casting methods is going to leave you way short of bullets. The reversal of this is going to have a BPCR rifle that doesn't group well. The needs of the ammo must be taken io account.

[RED333]

When I started to shoot a lot, shotgun was all I shot a lot of, so I started to cast a Lee slug, Now I am a cheap SOB and dont like to spend money where I dont need to.
I wont spend money on something that might not work out for my needs.
So I use an old cast iron 1 gt pot, a ladle I made from a 1/4 cup serving ladle. bent the handle over and used a nail to punch a hole bout 1/4" below the lip to get the lead from under the surface.
My heat source is a turkey cooker burner, the setup works well for me.
I started to cast "00", that was a learning process let me tell ya. LOL
I want to cast pistol (40 S&W), after reading this thread(very good one I must say)
I just might look into getting a bottom pour.

[MikeyPooh]

Well I'm a n00b too, and every piece of reloading/casting equipment I have I got either from craigslist or wheeling and dealing on forums. I figure I never paid more than about 50% of retail for any of my equipment.

I got two cast iron pots that hold about ten pounds of lead and two Lyman ladles for $20 one time. I also got a Lee bottom pour that, while it works, has gremlins. Paradoxically it leaks, yet I cannot get it to flow fast enough to fill a mold properly, lol. So for me at this point, ladle casting is how I do it. And as Snuffy mentioned, I couldn't get the hang of actually mating the spout to the sprue plate, I just let it stream in, and it works fine for me as far as I can tell.

Anyway, check local classifieds etc and you may be able to get both for less than either one paying full retail. Of course you may also get a lemon and a headache, lol.

[sharps4590]

I'm gonna get on board Snuffy's train. I use both and like both for specific reasons, most have been mentioned. Most of my rifle shooting is with 40 cal. or bigger and at least 270 grs. or bigger. For those I ladle, not the little cheap dipper, a casting ladle as Snuffy mentioned. I want the bullets within + or - 1/2 grain. Once the melt and the mold are up to temp I can cast those with boring consistency. Last night I cast 50, .415, 270 gr. bullets and set aside 5. The first 5 after I started keeping them. The rest fell well within the + or - and most were within .3 to .4 of each other No way I can do that with a bottom pour. Maybe some can but I've never been able to.

For handguns I mostly use multiple cavity molds, 4 is the biggest I have, I bottom pour, UNLESS, I am going to be shotting them at distance, 200-500 yards, then I will ladle pour, weigh and cull.

Learn to use both and decide on which best suits your needs for whatever you're shooting. I don't belive it's possible to know too much.

[Canuck Bob]

BESIDES, I CAN DRIVE NAILS FASTER WITH MY OLE' 16 OZ STANLEY THAN YOU CAN WITH THAT NAIL GUN!

Oh, sorry, did I say that out loud?

Yep you did.

Some of us actually enjoy working with our hands and hand tools. I actually use hand saws and hand planes. Besides dragging around the air compressor, hoses, and the fit no-where nail gun gets old sometimes.

[Ben0]

See, I would have gone for the 32 oz Vaughn.

You'll do fine ladle casting. :kidding:

I (before I retired) used a Hart 32oz California Special (the ax handled one with the milled face), with my wrist and elbow wrapped up, I could drop 16d sinkers with a single "set & smash" all day.