Favorite 22 Hornet components?

[Canuck Bob]

I'm gearing up from scratch for a new Handi 22 Hornet rifle. The twist is 1 in 9.

What are your favorite supplies and tooling? I'm hoping for opinions on everything from primers, cases, bullets, powder, etc..

I'm planning cast bullets soon and will use Hor. SX series until then unless they don't shoot, cheapest locally (when did they start making 22 bullets out of polymer tipped gold!).

[stubshaft]

For primers use small pistol. If you need cheap condoms try the Varmint Grenades (IIRC 32 grains). For cases use anything BUT PRVI I have had 25% split on the first firing. Lil Gun is supposed to give you the best velocity but it doesn't work well in my guns. I prefer 1680 or 2400. With a 9" twist you can shoot the 55's with no problem 225415, 225462 and RD's 22 mold would be great choices.

[Larry Gibson]

What I'll suggest is spendy but it is the best way to go in the long run for accurate 22 Hornet loads that are not frustrating to load.

A standard FL and seater set of dies. RCBS are fine.

A Redding Bushing die.

2 Bushings; .236 for R-P cases & .238 for WW cases

A Lee Collet die may work in lieu of the the Bushing die but I have heard many complaints that it doesn't.

A Lyman 22 short M -die. Grind the nose of the expander to a more pointy shape to easily enter the case mouth.

The above will produce the best loads with minimal frustration. The frustration comes from crooked necks from pulling the long thin necks over the expander, from scrunching cases when seating jacketed bullets. The key to accuracy is to use the NS'd case that is sized only to the depth of the bullet seating. This is why the bushing die works so well as it sizes only the front portion of the fire formed case neck. This leaves the case and back portion of the neck to maintain concentricity. TheM die is used even with jacketed bullets so the bullet bases is started into the case neck before seating. This avoids scrunched necks and cut fingers while trying to hold the bullet while the little case enters the seating die. I've not scrunches a neck or cut my fingers since I started using the M die 30 years ago.

A Lyman 225438 or a 225462 (if you can find one). All the above will be conducive to excellent cast bullet loads also.

I have been shooting Hornets for many years and find the 45 gr .224 Hornady Hornet bullet to be as good as the SX in Hornets. I use the Hornet bullets in Hornets and the SXs in .222s and .223 with 12" or slower twists. You may have accuracy problems with both the 45 gr Hornet and the 50 gr SX if pushed above 2800+ fps with powders such as Lil"gun. My experience is that Lil'gun works best with 40 - 45 gr bullets and top end loads. I use 12.5 gr under the 45 gr bullet for best results in either the R-P or WW cases. Psi is not a problem as that load gives less psi than factory Hornet loads (I've measured them). I use the Fed 150 or the CCI 500 small pistol primers in all Hornet loads.

If Lil'gun powder proves not to work then the old standy classic Hornet load of 11.5 gr 4227 (either current flavor) under a 40 or 45 gr Hornet bullet should prove excellent.

I prefer 4759 with my higher velocity cast bullet loads but have not tested Lil'gun with cast yet.

Larry Gibson

[tward]

Always had good luck with WW 46 gr hollow points. Not a sexy looking bullet but is accurate and devistating. Used 680 near max loads but I am running low and will shift to Lil gun soon. Mine is an older handi rifle with a 1-16 twist. Good luck and enjoy the hornet!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I love the Lee Collet neck sizing die when brass is only going into one gun.
I like Lil gun powder
I like Winchester brass
I also use small pistol primers.
if loading cast boolits,
don't over flare the case and
if you get the expanding of case right,
you don't need to do any crimping.
Jon

[303Guy]

I would suggest R-P cases as they seem to have the largest capacity. Lil'Gun is my choice of powder but with heavy bullets. I compress the stuff, something like 13.7gr of it. I don't size my cases at all. That means I need a heavy bullet and compressed powder so the primer doesn't push the bullet out on ignition. Measured muzzle velocity is 2740fps. Case life is indefinite. Now you're talking a Handi Rifle which is pretty strong for the hornet (mine is designed for the 222), so lube those cases otherwise the cases will stretch and separate. Mine is pretty accurate with my load but it has a 1-in-16 twist so your results could very well be quite different but then mine has a .223 groove and I'm using .224 bullets. Mine also has a large chamber which increases powder capacity. So start with 13grs as per the loading manuals and work up. (13grs is the listed max so maybe start with 12grs). There was someone using 40gr bullets and to fill the case he would top it to the neck compress it down a bit then add some more. He said he was getting in excess of 3000fps. He didn't say what cases he used.

[**oneshot**]

I just started shooting the hornet last year.

I followed a few tips that were given and so far so good.
Slightly lube the cases on the first firing----- uniform stretch in chamber.
Chamfer the case mouth--- easier seating, few if any crushed cases
Very small changes will have HUGE effects in small cases. 1/10 of a grain makes a difference.

Remember it's a hornet, not a 222 and your case life will pay you back.


These are the tips that were given to me by several others. So far they have worked great.

[Canuck Bob]

Thanks folks, some things jumped out at me.

Larry, you have written up a real top notch system for the little Hornet. I've been considering NS bushing dies but as I've been away awhile from reloading I wasn't sure about them. Cases are dainty and valuable. It just seems so counter productive to squeeze necks down then stretch them up even more than normal for cast bullets. Does a guy need two sizes of M die expanders for the Hornet?

AA 1680 keeps jumping out. Paco Kelly likes the stuff for the 32-20 another cartridge I load for. I get mixed messages about Lil' Gun. It offers outstanding performance but some experience consistency problems. I use 4227 in my 32-20 and it seems well regarded to. I reloaded years ago and felt like a powder collector sometimes!

Any ideas about heavier bullets? The Handi uses a Marlin produced barrel with 1 in 9 twist. I suspect a cast learning curve with that twist.

[Larry Gibson]

Does a guy need two sizes of M die expanders for the Hornet?

No, I've been using the one for both .223 and .224 j bullets and for cast sized at .225 and .227. The 9" twist is going to be difficult to get best accuracy above 1900 fps with. The 2 Lyman cast, 225438 & 225642, are the best bet. For hunting small game the 225415 at 1600 - 1800 fps should work well. A faster powder in the burning range of Unique will work well with that bullet.

I tried AA 1680 six ways to sunday in several different Hornets but never got really good nor consistent accuracy, some do report such though.

Larry Gibson

[leftiye]

If you can get a neck sizing die that doesn't require an expander step, or depending on how tight your chamber is, maybe use unsized cases, case life will be better. My Contender has a large freebore in the chamber. I have added a nose band to a 225438, and opened up the mold to cast .228 boolits. No sizing in that instance, either boolit or case.

Have you verified that 1 in 9 twist? Seems outrageous, but Marlin threw a lot of their surplus barrels on the handis.

[.22-10-45]

Hello, Canuck Bob. I use the Redding bushing dies. I have Redding competition seating die..but lately, I have been using a Wilson chamber type seating die, with a Sinclair micrometer top. I can seat both jacket & cast with palm of hand. For cast, I use a Lyman M die with custom turned expander plugs..I eliminate sharp step & blend to larger dia. with a 3 deg. angle, polish to mirror finish & harden. I found RWS cases to be the most uniform & precise..unfortunatly, they are no longer importing into U.S.

[303Guy]

Canuck Bob, You may find Lil'Gun won't work with cast boolits in a hornet with such a tight twist. Nor do you need such high performance from it. If you could load cast without sizing then you're away. It is possible with a single shot. The lube alone is enough to hold the boolit in place, but it might limit powder choices but not that much. Then again, with a 1-in-9 twist you can go as heavy a boolit as you like. A 1-in-16 twist hornet will stabilize a 60gr spire point (low muzzle blast to destabilize at muzzle exit). The advantage of Lil'Gun is the low pressure it generates but it might not light up properly at cast velocity. It's main advantage in the hornet is high performance with jacketed's.

Not saying you shouldn't get the dies, just that you might not need to use them all that much if you're lucky, saving on case life.

[1Shirt]

Rem Brass, H110, Fed 100 SP primers, Lee Collet neck sizer 35gr.Hor. V-Max, or one of the 32-33 gr HP's in jacketed, 225248 or 224415 both in HP's for cast! Agree with PRVI being trash!
1Shirt!

[303Guy]

Strange that about PRVI brass. I use it in 303 Brit and its fine. Anyway, if it's no good in hornet then that's that.

Just wondering, that 1-in-9 twist on a hornet, that's fast. Is that good good for cast?

[Canuck Bob]

Just wondering, that 1-in-9 twist on a hornet, that's fast. Is that good good for cast?

I wonder the same thing. Some guys do shoot 223s with cast it seems.

[uscra112]

My only Hornet is a 14" Contender, although I've got a High Wall that will be when it gets put together. Someday.

First thing I would do is ream your chamber to "K" Hornet. That will make a lot of the brass problems go away if you take care to neck-size only after the first firing. I dare you to ask me how I know. . . .

I'm happy with Lil'Gun, using 35 gr. V-max j-warts. (I don't cast for .22s.) Best chuck load has been 11 grains 'LilGun, Rem 1 1/2 primers. Not a top load, but the most accurate in my gun. I also have a lot of the Midway "Dogtown" 45 grain generics that do pretty well, but so far only on paper. For actual chucks I'm only using the V-Max load. All my brass is WW-Super.

Make sure your j-warts are off the lands. I carelessly loaded a dozen or so that were in contact, and the pressure signs were very evident in 2 or 3 shots, even wit a less-than-max load.

That 9 inch twist is awfully fast for a Hornet. Nothing I have said may work at all. And getting the 60 grain and up j-warts up to speed may generate way too much pressure for Hornet brass, IMHO. Why on Earth would they even make a Hornet with that twist?

[303Guy]

Well, as I've said, a 1-in-16 twist stabilizes a 60gr j-wart. It's true about the case stretch but as I've said, with a strong action one can lube the cases and they don't elongate - to a point. Above a certain pressure they will. I head-space my hornet on the case mouth. Not always possible but I'm doing it even with the chamfered chamber end. But I don't size the necks and they do have a slight inward angle on them. Since we are talking of cast boolits, it might be an idea to look at the k-hornet version that keeps the long neck.
Here's the link; http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd22khornet35.jpg.
With Lil'Gun there won't be any performance sacrifice but there's a potential gain on longer and heavier boolits.

[Canuck Bob]

That 9 inch twist is awfully fast for a Hornet. Nothing I have said may work at all. And getting the 60 grain and up j-warts up to speed may generate way too much pressure for Hornet brass, IMHO. Why on Earth would they even make a Hornet with that twist?

I suspect they did it to cut costs. They can make a barrel assembly line with the 223 and Hornet sharing the same assembled component. According to the Handi forum H&R started using Marlin barrels in 2007. They were an early member of the Remlin grop. Since then they only load 223 and Hornet in 22 CF calibers. So I suspect one barrel for 22s was the idea. The Hornet was 1 in 12 prior to that and they offered a 22-250 in that twist as well.

You and others have educated me on the weak link in the chain, cases. The Handi is a rugged enough working gun but certainly no Anschutz. The main goal for this gun is a takedown truck gun that loads workman like accurate rounds cheap, emphasis on cheap. I won't spend any money to ream it. If I like shooting these little cast bullets I'll start a fund to get a Contender some day.

[303Guy]

I like the idea of a Handi in 22 hornet. With my rifle , which is an Anschutz, I got about the same accuracy with my 55gr cast as I did with j's which wasn't all that good. That was before I discovered Lil'Gun. My castings were poor plus I may have been driving them too hard. It is a fun cartridge to load and shoot. It's accurate and flat shooting out to 180yds. It kills goats as effectively as any other cartridge.

[uscra112]

I suspect they did it to cut costs. They can make a barrel assembly line with the 223 and Hornet sharing the same assembled component. According to the Handi forum H&R started using Marlin barrels in 2007. They were an early member of the Remlin grop. Since then they only load 223 and Hornet in 22 CF calibers. So I suspect one barrel for 22s was the idea. The Hornet was 1 in 12 prior to that and they offered a 22-250 in that twist as well. .

Ah, yes. Remlin again displays the biggest, most powerful Product Cheapening Department in the industry. Have they ever gotten the Marlin production back together yet?

[Canuck Bob]

Ah, yes. Remlin again displays the biggest, most powerful Product Cheapening Department in the industry. Have they ever gotten the Marlin production back together yet?

I'm a lever gunner whose favorite hunter is a Marlin 444. They've lost my vote for now. I don't see any new ones on the shelf here yet but usually American orders are filled first.

Interesting the Handi has always been a price point gun. It hasn'd suffered by the merger according to some die hard fans. However they have pages of FAQs, fixes, and tweaks. Its $270 bucks up here, that rivals a cheap Savage bolt rimfire!

The humble Hornet isn't going to beat it to death, hopefuly not even loose.

It's a wannabe gunsmith's or bubha's dream! Instructions for DIY cut and crowns, chamber polishing, trigger jobs, spray paint camo, K Hornet reamer for borrowing, epoxied shims to restore lock-up tolerances, kinda like a tempermental Lee Enfield.

[plow]

I'm still developing loads for mine (jacketed then will work on cast) I've found the hornady 35 gr vmax to be great (mine is a cz so the magazine is limiting my OAL). I've gotten very good results with both 2400 and lil gun. the lil gun seems to be more accurate so far, but it seems to heat up the barrel a lot faster than the 2400 (subjective). I did experiment with primers and the small pistol primers definitely tightened the groups up.

[303Guy]

lil gun ... seems to heat up the barrel a lot faster ...Yup. It sure does heat a barrel. But a curious thing, by increasing the charge by .2 grs the barrel went from getting very warm very quickly to staying cool!

[1Shirt]

303Guy, I have PRVI brass in 2 or 3 other cals and it is fine. It is only in the hornet that I have a problem with it. Obviously the Quality Control in hornet brass is not the same as with larger cases.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[dagger dog]

Have been shooting Remington nickle plate and Winchester brass out of a Savage Model 40 Varmint Hunter 24" barrel.

The chamber must be at near minimum specs as my brass life is very good 10 loadings on some.

Lil'Gun powder is the go to for the Hornet, tried IMR 4227, H110 W296 2400 Unique.

Tried Winchester,Remington,CCI,Federal, small rifle , and Winchester small pistol primers.

Bullets 30 and 36 gr Barnes Varmint Grenades, 33 gr Speer TNT, 35 gr Berger FBHP,35 and 40 gr Vmax's, Lyman 225415 FPGC, 55gr moly lubed,water quenched wheel weight #2 Lyman mix.

The Remington and Winchester brass shot the same, the 40 gr Vmax over 12.5 grs Lil'Gun, and CCI small rifle benchrest primers clocked 2800-2900 fps over my Chrony,30-35 gr bullets over 3000 fps with the same charge, but the best group was a 20 round 7/8th inch@ 100 yds. with the 40gr Vmax.

The best groups were with neck sized brass from a Lee collet die .