question about T/C's

[quilbilly]

I have noticed recently that Henry Firearms makes a Mares leg lever action with a 12" barrel. Does that mean I can turn my 14" Contender barrel into a carbine with a carbine stock. I already tried it at the range and it (41 mag barrel) shoots great as a carbine.

[ubetcha]

I think federal law states that minimum rifle bbl length is 16".Not sure what Henry Arms are doing to get around it

[blpenn66502]

Mares leg is sold as a handgun. A rifle with a barrel under 16" requires getting the special tax stamp from the ATF before you can put it together and use it. Someone at one time sold an extension to be permanently affixed to a 14" barrel but brought the barrel length to above the 16" minimum.

[stubshaft]

Short answer is no. If you have someone weld on a 2"+ muzzle brake then you can legally mount the buttstock.

[leadman]

You can install a barrel shorter than 16" but you need to apply for and get the $200 tax stamp first from the ATF.
I have added muzzle brakes on several barrels to get the length over 16". They need to be soldered or welded in place, loctite won't make it legal. I think you can pin it with a non-removable pin also.
If you have a factory buttstock the recoil pad or buttplate should bear the warning of installing a short barrel.
Did you just confess to a Federal offense on a public forum???

[Ed in North Texas]

See the latest ATF Rule here:

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf

As I read the rule, with a TC pistol you can reassemble the pistol into a rifle - as long as the barrel is 16" or longer and the overall length is 26" or longer. You can then reassemble the resulting rifle into a pistol again. You could put a shorter than 16" barrel on your pistol, but can't put the rifle wood on.

Others read the rule as allowing a TC sold as a rifle to be converted to a pistol, and then back to a rifle. Personally, I don't buy that after reading the rule. Here's a thread where that issue is explored:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=138623

See posts starting at #12 for a discussion of the issue between myself and another member.

Hope that helps.

Just my $0.02, which is worth nothing these days.

Ed

[shdwlkr]

the last I read someplace is that a TC pistol can go to a rifle as it was purchased as a pistol but you can not take a TC rifle and make it a pistol. Again Federal laws govern and I would not want to get nailed for messing with a rifle and making it a pistol.

I personally leave all pistols as pistols and rifles as rifles it just makes life easier all the way around. If you get my drift.

[quilbilly]

I had hoped that something in the laws had changed. That 14" barrel as turned into a carbine is sweet weapon in the thick brush around my neighborhood during the early part of the bear season in August where a long shot might be 100 feet. With the folding stock, crawling through the brush thickets to openings is easy.

[pietro]

FWIW, I corresponded with BATF last year, about this - regarding converting a non-T/C handgun into a rifle.

What it boils down to is:

If a firearm was originally manufactured/shipped as a rifle/long gun, then the 16" minimum bbl length & 26" OAL limits must be observed unless one first obtains an SBR permit from BATF.

If a firearm was originally manufactured/shipped as a handgun, a rifle-length bbl may be installed, keeping within the 16" minimum, and a buttstock, folding or non - as long as the OAL minimum of 26" is met with the stock in extended position.

What is a "grey area" is: Once the handgun is converted into a rifle, it is legal/not to convert it back into a handgun.

It is perfectly legal for a private, non-FFL, citizen to do the conversion for their own use, but they must obtain a manufacturer's license to sell/give the result to another.

.

[quilbilly]

Now that makes me smile!

[shdwlkr]

What seems strange is from what you are saying I can take a TC pistol and make a rifle out of it but I can not put it back to a pistol which is how it is known to BATF? How is that possible? how are they going to know it is a pistol/rifle back to a pistol?

Something seems strange in that line of thinking and what you can and can not do? I know years ago it was ok to go from pistol to rifle and back to pistol, but you could only sell it as a pistol as that is what it left the factory as.

[pietro]

What seems strange is from what you are saying I can take a TC pistol and make a rifle out of it but I can not put it back to a pistol which is how it is known to BATF? How is that possible? how are they going to know it is a pistol/rifle back to a pistol?

Something seems strange in that line of thinking and what you can and can not do? I know years ago it was ok to go from pistol to rifle and back to pistol, but you could only sell it as a pistol as that is what it left the factory as.


Well, using that line of reasoning -

It must be legal to rob a bank, too - until you're caught. . :dung_hits_fan:

.

[shdwlkr]

Well think about if you take that pistol of TC make and put a rifle stock on it and a rifle barrel that is ok but if you want to put it back the way you bought it is against the law. How strange is that but then I am sure you are much smarter than to try it without really knowing the laws aren't you?

Years ago I was in a shop and they had just that setup for sale and it was legal to have both a pistol TC and the parts to make it into a rifle so I guess I am just not getting the change that has occurred

by the way your comment about robbing a bank is just plain stupid and says a lot about you also.

[shdwlkr]

just for the record the courts already worked this issue over and you can read for yourself you can have both a pistol and a rifle out of the TC pistol

http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/tc.html

[Ed in North Texas]

FWIW, I corresponded with BATF last year, about this - regarding converting a non-T/C handgun into a rifle.

What it boils down to is:

If a firearm was originally manufactured/shipped as a rifle/long gun, then the 16" minimum bbl length & 26" OAL limits must be observed unless one first obtains an SBR permit from BATF.

If a firearm was originally manufactured/shipped as a handgun, a rifle-length bbl may be installed, keeping within the 16" minimum, and a buttstock, folding or non - as long as the OAL minimum of 26" is met with the stock in extended position.

What is a "grey area" is: Once the handgun is converted into a rifle, it is legal/not to convert it back into a handgun.

It is perfectly legal for a private, non-FFL, citizen to do the conversion for their own use, but they must obtain a manufacturer's license to sell/give the result to another.

.

Not a grey area, read the ATF Ruling and you can see that it is legal to change it back to pistol. The grey area is whether a TC frame sold as a rifle can be legally changed at all.

Ed

[quilbilly]

Since the overall length of my 14" barrel Contender with the folding stock out is 28" it is marginally legal unless someone is having a bad hair day. Hmmm

[Doc_Stihl]

NO! NO!! NO!!!

YOU ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT HAVE A RIFLE STOCK AFFIXED TO A FIREARM THAT HAS A BARREL THAT IS LESS THAN 16" LONG UNLESS IT IS A REGISTERED SHORT BARREL RIFLE.

There is no gray area here.

[Ed in North Texas]

NO! NO!! NO!!!

YOU ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT HAVE A RIFLE STOCK AFFIXED TO A FIREARM THAT HAS A BARREL THAT IS LESS THAN 16" LONG UNLESS IT IS A REGISTERED SHORT BARREL RIFLE.

There is no gray area here.

Perhaps we should ask what part of 16" he didn't understand.

[quilbilly]

I always thought that to be the case. Just wishful thinking I suppose after crawling through salmonberry and devils club (named for a good reason) thorn thickets maneuvering a regular rifle or muzzleloader to get to some secret openings crisscrossed with bear and deer paths. That is why I bought that 14" barrel in the first place but my hands aren't as steady as they used to be. Oh well!

[onceabull]

Sort of along the same line of reasoning as the OP,I (Last week) acquired an Encore originally sold as a pistol,accessories included a 16.0x "" barrel in 405 Win..and rifle stock/forend.. I will be able to live with the extra 2.0x " of barrel,but that may be because I started out hunting blacktails in the manzanita jungles of Nevada/Placer Counties in NoCal...Whole package,when taken down ,and wrapped right.will fit nicely tied over the cantle of your stock saddle...Onceabull

[Doc_Stihl]

Take a 14" barrel and have a 2" muzzle break permanantly installed = Legal

It's simple and cheap compared to a felony firearms arrest.

Or use it as a pistol.

[45-70 Chevroner]

Don't ever get caught with a TC that is set up for rifle and have a second barrel in the case that is shorter than 16". You might go to jail right on the spot. I have two TC's one set up for rifle only and one set up for pistol only, and transport them in seperate hard body cases.

[leadman]

There is no problem with having a short barrel along with a rifle set-up as long as you also have the pistol grip.
When I spoke with the ATF office here in Phoenix I asked if it is ok to strip the gun down to the frame, add the buttstock and then the over 16" barrel. Then remove the buttstock and barrel, reinstall a pistol grip and barrel of any length. This was ok. Just make sure you do not have the under 16" barrel on a frame with the buttstock on it.
This letter from July 2011 also applies to the pistols that are slipped into a rifle frame with 16" or longer barrel on them. The agent I spoke with said there is still discussion on the ARs.

As an example if you have a Remington 700 that is built only as a rifle it can not be made into a pistol and then back again. Making a pistol out of it makes it a Short barreled Rifle and you need the $200 tax stamp before you start.

Where it might get real confusing is if you use a Savage rifle to make a pistol like the Savage Striker that was made for awhile. On another board a member was talking with someone from Savage about pistols and was told "to wait awhile". Hope this means Savage will make them again.