What did I do??? wrong

[wyoduster]

So can you help me out.. Not all of the ones I just cast but a third were like this..
I'm new so I'm at a loss.. Hope the pics tell the story.:killingpc

[Willyp]

Mould is cold or lead is cold!!!!!!!

[newcastter]

Well I'm a little new at this but I am going to guess either pot is too hot or not hot enough, or excessive lube on mold I would also guess a cold mold but even after a few cast that would rule itself out.

[turmech]

cold or oil in mold

[avan47]

What Willyp said. Could also be contamination (oil) in the mold. Clean it with alcohol on a Q-tip.

[OneSkinnyMass]

the more info you can give, the better these kind folk can help, alloy, temp, mould type, how you preheat mould ect

Skinny

[Ben]

wyoduster


Hope the pics tell the story.

The pics DON'T tell the entire story.

You're holding a lot of the pieces to the puzzle and they are not included in your post above with your photos.

Did you clean the molds ( if so, by what method ) and were you satisfied that the molds were 100% oil free.

Did you pre-heat the molds ?

What was your alloy temperature ?

Are you using a bottom pour system or are you ladle casting ?

[462]

What Ben said.

[Texantothecore]

Since only a third came out with this it would seem that there is a temp problem, either the mold is too cold or the lead is too cold. I have this problem with a roundball mold cut in a multiple bullet block and the volume of the rb is not sufficient to keep the mold hot so I am going to be preheating the mole on a cheapo hot plate.

If you haven't scrubbed the molds, it really pays off. Acetone and a toothbrush works really well.

[Boolseye]

+1 on a cold mold being the most likely culprit.
If these are Lee aluminum molds, I suggest you dip the corner in the alloy, 30 seconds for a 2-cav., 45 for a 6 cav. Make sure there's no oil in the cavs, as previously mentioned.

[btroj]

Ben asked the right questions.

[brad925]

The great thing about these little hiccups is this............you can melt them back down and keep trying till you get it right! God i love casting boolits!!

[Wolfer]

The metal is so shiny that it looks like a cold mold to me but I've gotten similar results from lubeing Lee molds per their instructions and the smoke/ fumes got in the cavity. By the time it gets burnt out the mold is starting to stick again. I now use a high temp silocone lube and have no real problems.

[wyoduster]

Just a little more info.. Sorry so vague but I know so little I don't know the questions
1: I have no way to tell the temp... no thermometer ...recommendations?
2: Lee molds and I did use acetone and a Q-tip ..
3: possibly cold molds I didn't heat them... forgot...
4: its a new lee Bottom pour pot.
5: question.. does it hurt to leave lead in the pot for next time?
6: Thanks in advance...

[cbrick]

Wrinkles . . . Cold mold or possible oil in cavities.

None of the driving bands or bases filled out . . . Cold mold & cold sprue plate.

So shiney . . . Cold mold.

Conclusion . . . ICE cold mold.

Solution . . . Pre-heat the mold on a hot plate. Cast faster, much faster. Keep the mold blocks closed and full of alloy as much as possible. Stop inspecting your new bullets while casting because your mold is cooling off and it never did get up to casting temp. Lot's of time for inspecting when your finished casting, no time at all for that now.

The secret to casting good bullets is the mold at proper casting temp not extra hot alloy in the pot. Mold temp.

I always fill my pot when I'm finished casting and leave it that way for the next time.

Rick

[DLCTEX]

Probably cold mould due to evidence listed above.

[leadman]

To the OP: Set your temp control on 8, which may be too hot but better than too cold. Rescrub your mold and when the alloy is good and hot dip the end on the mold so both halves are in the alloy.Have the sprue plate swung to the side and the mold closed. Hold it there and you should see some smoke rise soon. Then remove the mold from the alloy, close the prue plate and fill the mold with alloy. It should take quite awhile for the sprue to cool enough to cut. If not it was not hot enough. Try again. This is the only sure way I have found to get all of the oil out of the mold. It takes several minutes for the mold to cool enough to cut the sprue, a fan will help cool it.
The alloy will have to also be cooled down if your pot is like the Lee pots I have. I normally cast with the setting on 7.
A frosted boolit is ok as it is normally filled out well and there will be less variance in boolit weight. Lee even recommends a frosted boolit for use with their tumble lube.

[D Crockett]

Wyoduster (1) I would get a can of break cleaner and just spray the inside of the mould real good do not use a Q tip if the Q tip get oil on it you just put it back in the mould and let dry in the air (2) get you lead between 650 and 750 degrees (3) stick the corner of the mould in the moltant lead for about 1 minute and (4) get to work casting if you do this you will cast good bullets and one more thing get a themometer it is a tool of the trade that you need D Crockett

[stubshaft]

A thermometer may be useful but it is not essential. Get the mold hot to the point of being lightly frosted and back off a little.

[Lizard333]

Cold mold. You may also want to look into getting a hot plate. I just picked up one at Wally World for 20 bucks. When you add the lead to mold, the sprue should take about three seconds to set up and freeze. Cut the sprue and repeat. I personally like a little light frost on my boolets. Shinny boolets are over rated, and for a new caster, work on getting the basics. This includes getting your mold up to a proper temp PRIOR to adding your lead. You can determine the proper temp of your lead by how long you sprue takes to harden and your casting pace.

Using the hot plate allows you to find the right setting for your casting pace and alloy temp. Once you find that, keep that setting and leave it. I start my hot plate the same time I turn the pot on. I place my mold(s) on the hot plate and get the mold(s) up to the right temp, so my first cast is dropping gems, and I can keep going.d

If you find your boolets getting a heavy frost, your mold is too hot. Slow your pace of casting or lower the temp on the pot. If you find the sprues harden really quick and you are not getting good fill on your bands, increase the pace you are casting or increase the heat on your lead.

If you think the temp and pace you are doing is correct and you are still not getting good fillout on the bands and base of the boolet, trying adding some tin, about 2%. I use Clip on WW's, and Stick on WW's for 95% of my casting and I have yet to need the tin.

Your mileage may very, but this will get you in the ballpark. The main thing is knowing that the boolets you produce now, and the once you produce in 6 months are going to be very different. Not to say the ones you are going to cast now are shootable, just the ones you cast in 6 months, are going to look a LOT better. I remember recasting a LOT of boolits I made at first. Except this and move on. Cast, cast, and cast some more. When you are not casting, come back here and READ, READ, READ some more.

Have FUN, this will only get more fun the more you do it!!

[cbrick]

Get the mold hot to the point of being lightly frosted and back off a little.

That's correct but get the bullets that fall out of the mold a bit frosty . . . NOT the mold! :mrgreen:

Rick

[runfiverun]

getting a couple of heat cycles in the mold will help it too.
after a thorough scrubbing with a soft bristeled tooth brush and some mineral spirits.
i'll set a new mold on the edge of my pot and just let it be for a few casting sessions.
making a short run with it each time [50-100 boolits].
usually by the third or fourth run it drops really nice boolits.
it also gives me a chance to measure them and see if i have any sticky cavity's etc..

[Bambeno]

Keep a good casting rate going so the mold does not have too much time to cool between pores. Inspect bullets after your done not while casting.

[MtGun44]

the boolits are your thermometer. Thermometers are entirely unnecessary, but maybe
slightly useful. I have one and never get it out. Don't waste your money.

Too cold and/or too dirty. Both are the normal first error. You are NOT plowing any
new ground here, we have ALL been there, done that.

scrub mold with toothbrush and comet, gently. Rinse with VERY hot water so it
drys fast.

Heat up mold and metal and try again. If it happens again, get mold hotter and cast
FASTER. DO NOT spend even 1 second admiring your work. CAST, CAST, CAST. Every
second the mold is not full, it is cooling down. Once it comes up to temp, it will
start casting nicely, and you can start slowing your casting rate to settle into a smooth
routine, slower pace cools the mold, faster pace heats the mold. Adjust the power on
your pot, too as needed.

Bill

[wyoduster]

Thanks guys!! I'm on it again today... We'll see if I learned anything...

[Bret4207]

I'm loading cast Boolits 8mm Mauser .323 175gr lee cast gas check sized and lubed I want to know how deep to set the boolit, what is the minimum length or how deep to set them I'm new and the cast turned out great thanks to the people on this site.

It would be best to start this as a new topic. I like to seat the boolits so the nose is seated lightly into the leade.

[cbrick]

Thanks guys!! I'm on it again today... We'll see if I learned anything...

That's good but we want pictures! :mrgreen:

Rick

[Boolseye]

Just a little more info.. Sorry so vague but I know so little I don't know the questions
1: I have no way to tell the temp... no thermometer ...recommendations?
A thermometer's a great idea. CHances are it's the mold that's too cold though–with a hot mold (Lee) I can cast great bullets with alloy as cool as 640º+/-


2: Lee molds and I did use acetone and a Q-tip ..
pretty much rules out the oil in cavities, then.

3: possibly cold molds I didn't heat them... forgot...
there's your problem.

4: its a new lee Bottom pour pot.
excellent. I love mine

5: question.. does it hurt to leave lead in the pot for next time?

leave an inch or so.

6: Thanks in advance...
no prob. welcome to the club!

[wyoduster]

OK I heated up my molds first ... this is the results.. I'm still not overly happy.
WHY are some of them rough looking?
I'm dropping them in water out of the mold.. could that do it?
I did pull a handfull out that looked worse.
BUT ITS TOO FUN even making bad boolits..

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

Are you fluxing? Looks like a lot of impurities are present in that last photo.

Find a piece of cotton cloth. I use pillow ticking I make muzzleloader patches from. Fold it so it's relatively thick and about 5" square or so. Soak it in water and set it in a pan away from the furnace before turning the furnace on. There should be no standing water anyplace.

Turn your mold up to 7-1/2 or 8 (on the 10 scale). Let preheat for 1/2 hour the first time around so you know the lead is good and hot. Throw in a pinch of paraffin, light the smoke, and stir it. Take off the ash and dispose of properly. That stuff is poison.

Next, dip the corner of the mold into the lead as you show yourself doing. Hold it there for a full minute. Start casting. Discard the first five casts. We want to make sure the mold is hot the first go-around. You can play with this later.

When the mold starts throwing frosted bullets, start lowering the blocks onto the wet cloth prior to cutting the sprue. This will cool the bullets inside the mold and keep them from sticking and frosting. You don't need to hold it there for long; just until the sprue cools should be fine.

Cast hot with clean cavities. After you're sure of fillout cool the mold some. This is the method I use now. Can't say for sure I invented it but never heard anyone else doing it, either. It works and works well for me.

All standard safety rules apply, of course.

Regards,

Josh

[prs]

In your new photo's, some boolits are shinny and bright and some are frosted a bit. The frosted ones look a bit better. The bright ones tend have more wrinkles. This is evidence that you are still developing your technique and are varying your technique. You will find what works and somtimes little things make big differences.

With those single cavity relatively small bore rifle moulds and the Lee bottom pour pots, I push the mould under the outlet spout iin such a way that any drip is pushed off by the leading edge of the mould. Then I let the spout come to rest in one of the opening of the spru plate. I tilt the mould a bit, maybe 30 degrees and open the spout. As the pour has started I let the mould fall away from the spru opening just a little and as the molten lead begins to form the spru waste, I let that distance from spout to mould increase slightly so I get a good tall bead of spru waste. Close the spout. Now, in real time, all of that took just about one second or a tad more ("one Mississippi"). The idea in all of that is to get the hot molten lead into the hot mould while both are still hot and lead fully molten, while at the same time letting the trapped air in the mould escape quickly. Your technique has been letting some of the first lead that hits the mould begin to solidify as you pour more lead onto that and you are getting folds or squiggle lines and you are trapping air that give you those little "Rorshack" patterns and pits. My technique is just that, you may find your own -- just keep trying and you will get proficient.

You do need a decent alloy, WW with or without added lead is good and having 2% extra tin sure makes life easier. Pure lead can be tough get good results with, especially in smaller/taller moulds like yours.

DO NOT wait minutes to open the spru cutter, open it as soon as the spru waste has solidified -- a few seconds only. Open with golved hand, no mallet needed, should open with ease if hot enough. Then wait a few more seconds to drop the boolits and refill immediately. I get between 3 or 4 cycles per minute with that type of mould. Drop onto soft terry cloth as they are fragile for a few minutes.

prs

[wyoduster]

Are you saying DON'T drop them in water??

[MtGun44]

Did you scrub the mold with comet and a toothbrush? I never drop mine into water. This makes them harder, and might be useful for some
rifle loads, but it is not something that I normally do.

Still looks like you are too cold. Turn up the pot a bit and cast faster, cut as soon as you can, fill immediately.

Bill

[StratsMan]

Duster,

Your photos at the top show three different boolits... In the center photos, it looks like a 405 grain and a 450 grain... Are you switching molds between pours???

Your basic problem here is lack of heat... If you are pouring one mold, setting it down, then pouring another mold, then you likely will not get either one of them up to temperature. While you're developing your technique, only use one mold...

As for water dropping, first you need to determine what you're using these for... Water will raise the hardness of the boolit... I use a 405 grain mold for my 45-70, but it's an 1873 Trapdoor... There's barely any rifling in that barrel, so I need my boolits to be soft... I cut down the wheel weights with pure lead, and NO WATER... If you're casting for a new 45-70 with strong rifling, your needs will be different...

Otherwise, I give thumbs up on the input of others here... cast fast, cast hot... a mold that's too hot may frost your boolits, but they will fill out and work fine... Too cold and you have problems....

[wyoduster]

No I pour 30-40 then switch molds.. OK I try again dangit..... lol

[Bret4207]

You need the mould HOT!!! Stop standing there looking at the boolits you just dropped with an empty mould in your hand. Start casting and don't slow down other than to make sure the mould is closing right. You need to get the mould up to temp before things will go right. Stop water dropping until your gun tells you it NEEDS water dropped boolits. Your going to slow down worrying about getting water in the mould and if any does get in there it cools the mould down. Until you get the mould HOT! a few times it's not going to cast right and do not put ANYTHING in the mould cavity or on the faces except as a last resort before giving casting up, and check with us before you do. No oils, no magic smoke, no miracle "release agents". IF it won't cast right with a good clean alloy when up to temp then there's a mechanical issue that likely can be solved.

Incidentally, I've been to Weare several times. Nice folks, nice country.

[cbrick]

Are you saying DON'T drop them in water??

Yes.


Stop water dropping until your gun tells you it NEEDS water dropped boolits. Your going to slow down worrying about getting water in the mould and if any does get in there it cools the mould down. Incidentally, I've been to Weare several times. Nice folks, nice country.

Oh yeah, any water will cool it down a whole lot really fast and it's already not hot enough. Go back to post 15 of this thread and re-read the paragraph "Conclusion".

The bullets in your second set of pictures are still too shiney meaning your mold isn't hot enough. They are better but you need more heat in the mold, not the pot of alloy but in the mold.

Why would you think you need hardened bullets anyways?

Rick

[geargnasher]

No I pour 30-40 then switch molds.. OK I try again dangit..... lol

There's your problem. Quit trying to work two moulds at once until you get the hang of doing it with one. You are losing too much heat in the time it takes to handle them both.

If you want guaranteed results every time, here's what you do:

First, obtain a casting thermometer. Get one from Tel-Tru for half the price of the exact same product sold by Lyman and RCBS for two-three times the price.

Second, determine the full-liquidus point of the alloy you're using, that means the point at which all of the grainy mush melts in and it's completely liquid. Note that temperature and add 100 degrees to it. Heat the alloy to that point and cut the thermostat, keep an eye on it and tweak the thermostat as necessary. 100 degrees hotter than the fully-liquid point is a good starting point for almost any alloy, regardless of composition.

Third, flux your alloy with wood shavings or sawdust, stir it well, pull the alloy up from the bottom with a spoon and expose as much of the metal to the sawdust as you can while it chars and smokes. This will turn the oxide scum back into elemental metals (thus saving them rather than wasting them), and will also draw out impurities like calcium, aluminum, and iron so your alloy will "flow" better and make smoother boolits.

Finally, Preheat the mould like you're doing by dipping the front bottom edge in the melt about 1/4" for 30 seconds or so (at least until the lead won't stick to it when you pull it out), then dip the tip of the sprue plate in for about ten seconds and get to casting. Cast at a rate of FOUR POURS PER MINUTE until they get that light, satin look too them and then level the pace out, usually somewhere between three and four pours a minute. Get a cheap analog wall clock with a sweeping second hand and actually TIME it. Really. TIME it. That will give you something to do other than waste time looking over your boolits while your mould cools between pours!

If you do this, you can cast with any mould, any alloy, any day and get good results with no screwing around.

There are very specific reasons for each one of these recommendations involving the chemistry of lead and the nature of casting, but without pages of explanation this is all you need to know, although using Bullplate sprue plate lube and properly cleaning the cavities are are critical as well to the best casting experience.

Gear

[white eagle]

don't know if anyone has mentioned it or not but...
it appears to me that mold isn't hot enough
speed up the casting and drop all the culls back in the pot

[MtGun44]

"Pour 30-40 and switch molds" - AHA! This can be just about how long it can take
to get a mold up to temp without preheating on a hot plate.

Keep casting on one mold, FAST, no changing molds, only the briefest visual look at
what you cast, just keep casting as fast as you can.

Bill

[StratsMan]

Don't fret, Duster.... We all... well, I'll speak for myself... I did the same thing when I started... put the cart before the horse and focused on being "efficient" by running multiple molds at the same time... Got the same results you're seeing... didn't start getting good results until things got so hot I thought I would be off the chart... I wasn't... I was right in the ballpark at that point... Didn't really understand how easy it gets when it gets really hot... no fighting the sprue (opens with my gloved hand), easy drops, clean pours, etc....

Heat, even if it seems excessive, is your friend... Cast all you want of one mold, THEN switch to the next mold... Hmmm.... I think I'll make that a Rule of Casting: "Only heat a mold once during a session, and run it until I have enough...."

[Casper29]

No it does not hurt to leave lead in the pot it helps for the next time if there is lead so it does'nt take as long to melt but only leave the pot about half full for the next time.

You have a bottom pour what is your heat setting on, I leave mine on 6 to 61/2 when the lead is up to temp.

[wyoduster]

Ok going to head down in a bit an "MAKE IT HOT" seems like thats my problem...
AS for the water..... I had no idea I was making the bullets harder.. I just thought.... cool them off. I'll drop them in my wood box today.
I'm appreciative to all the info you guys are giving.. What a great web sight.

[cbrick]

wyoduster, get an old towel, fold it in half and drop the bullets on that. They are really soft when falling from the mold.

Rick

[Bret4207]

Ok going to head down in a bit an "MAKE IT HOT" seems like thats my problem...
AS for the water..... I had no idea I was making the bullets harder.. I just thought.... cool them off. I'll drop them in my wood box today.
I'm appreciative to all the info you guys are giving.. What a great web sight.

Buddy, we've all been right where you are. Don't get discouraged, it'll happen once you learn what a hot mould working right feels like!

[fishnbob]

wyoduster, get an old towel, fold it in half and drop the bullets on that. They are really soft when falling from the mold.

Rick

Listen to Rick, they are really soft when first dropped. I've damaged many boolit points by one dropping on another laying on the folded towel, so spread them out and make sure they don't touch each other when dropping. I use a hot plate to heat up my mold as many others and I keep it on while casting so if I have to stop or even hesitate for anytime at all, the mold goes either in the box on the hot plate or on top of the pot. Aluminum molds are good for fast heating but they also cool quickly. Cast fast until things smooth out and run right then adjust timing accordingly.[smilie=s:

[Char-Gar]

Yep, those bullets look like many I have cast and I suspect everybody here has the same experience.

First batch look like the alloy was too cold. I heat it up until it flows like water from the spout. I have never owned a thermometer.

Could be a colt mold, but my money is on a cold alloy. An aluminum mold heats up pretty quick in just a few casts. An iron or brass mold takes much longer. I use a Lyman pot and it was a warming shelf on it. I place the mold there to heat while the melt comes up to temp and it will start casting right away.

The second looks like lots of trash in the melt. Not fluxed well.

You won't get anywhere changing molds ever 30-40 casts. I don't even like to use two molds at one time. When my mold and melt gets up to the proper temp, I just set up a rythem and keep casting as long as I can. I keep alloy ingots on top of the pot rim to heat and drop them in as I need more alloy. I don't let the pot get below the half full level. Keeping the level up keeps a regular pressure on the spout and this makes for more uniform bullets.

All of us had to go through the learning curve, so plug away. It is just your turn.

[geargnasher]

Buddy, we've all been right where you are. Don't get discouraged, it'll happen once you learn what a hot mould working right feels like!

Amen!

On the towel, noboby mentioned it probaby because it's second-nature, but fold the towel in half so the fold is away from you. Drop the boolits in different places on the towel so the don't hit each other, and when you start to get crowded, grab the front corners of the top layer and lift it to roll all the boolits to the back few inches of the towel by the fold. They will have cooled enough to handle a little bit of knocking around. You will then have a fresh space to drop more boolits.

One more thing, use only 100% cotton terry towels, I made the mistake of using a nice, fluffy, soft towel from a bag of "painter's rags" that a local charity store sells cheap (gets rid of donated clothes and stuff that are too scrappy to resell as such), it must have been Nylon or something because the hot boolits melted right through it!

Gear

[cbrick]

All of us had to go through the learning curve, so plug away. It is just your turn.

Oh yeah for sure. We have all been there done that, everyone of us. That's how come we know what your going through. Stick with it and before ya know it you'll be helping out some other newbie get addicted. Um, I mean started. :mrgreen:

Rick