you can keep your wood..

[gandydancer]

I have been casting my own for many years.stoped for many years also. and started again. and never ever used any thing to clean the lead other than a little wax. after reading about you all useing wood of some sort. I gave it a try using ceder chips doing it inside the shead doors open 70 & sunny 3 fans pulling the smoke away from me. cast about 30 rds went and shut it all down. went back into the house and passed out on the bed came to in about 5 mins sick as I have ever been in my life that was at 6 pm EST on weds the 22nd between trips to the bath room just got out of bed today 9pm EST and have stay up this long still no food just mt due don't know what went wrong. but from this time on will do it all outdoors and back to Wax. GD

[SquirrelHollow]

I'd have to say it was:
A: Something else, completely unrelated.
B: Some kind of additive in the Cedar Chips (if store-bought), that your body didn't like.

Get better.

[letsmeltlead2693]

One thing, your "sickness" is not from lead. Lead is a relatively safe metal that people want to give a bad rep because it is dense, cheap, and ideal so people want to say stuff and ban it so people have to use garbage metals like zinc, tin, or steel. Sorry, back to you question, it is not from the lead, but the fumes from the burning paint and junk on the COWW. Were you melting WW? If so, the fumes from burning junk is the problem.

[gandydancer]

there where wheelweights in ingot form the same 20 pounds from the 1st batch with wax cleanup the 2nd time from wood chips like I said back to wax clean up. I never said it was any thing to do with the lead.

[letsmeltlead2693]

I apologize, it could be from the wood or wax burning as it does produce harmful chemicals when they are burning.

[gandydancer]

no apologize needed it could be from none of the above. been on some change in meds lortab for back pain. was on it once before don't remember it making me this sick. purchased the chips at tractor supply said they where clean// who knows. it did clean the lead up good and fast.

[letsmeltlead2693]

Yeah, it is probably the opiate painkiller doing that. They say opiates cause nausea and other similar effects.

[Rick N Bama]

Lortab makes me sick as a dog! I can't take them at all.

Rick

[shotman]

ceder would not be good breathing the smoke . most use pine for the rosin. Ceder is what keeps bugs away

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have an allergy to Oak tree pollin and mountain Cedar (pollin).
I have noticed some ill effects if I get too much smoke from those sources...more so than hanging around a smoke filled bar.

[btroj]

I would try a wood who fewer aromatic oils.

[Reload3006]

I have never had that problem but I also have never gotten that fancy. I just go to my table saw and scoop a cup or two of saw dust from underneath it. LOL its always worked. I would estimate that the vast majority of it has been Pine or spruce and works great. Cedar would kind of worry me because of the oils as would cypress Bugs just plane dont like those woods for a reason.

[fecmech]

If you light the smoke off when it starts you will get a lot less of it. I cast in my garage and when I flux at the start of casting I light the smoke off with a propane torch.

[waksupi]

Some woods are downright poisonous. Pretty much all of the exotic tropical woods are very bad to ingest in smoke, or sanding dust. Some people will react the same to walnut.
Cedar and juniper are very resinous, and are also trouble makers.
I remember using juniper one time when I was smoking some brain tanned hides. They came out a beautiful color, but had an incredibly acrid smell to them, took my breath away, and made my eyes burn. I had to wash them three or four times before I could stand to have them in the cabin.

[letsmeltlead2693]

If ya' flux, can't you use sawdust from a pencil sharpener?

[Longwood]

If ya' flux, can't you use sawdust from a pencil sharpener?

Who uses pencils these days?
It would sure take a lot of pencils.
Pet bedding is cheap.
Wood pellets are even cheaper.
And most people find free sawdust if they take the time to look for it.
I doubt the graphite will burn so it could be very difficult to remove from the melt.

[canyon-ghost]

I doesn't matter if you prefer wax, I use parafin myself. It's the addition of a hydrocarbon that makes it work.

Lortab? You won't be doing much ( or anything at all, probably).

[Jammer Six]

That's almost the exact sequence that happens to me when I'm burning galvanized metal with a torch. There wouldn't be galvanized metal involved, would there?

The thing that could get me through the day was milk, lots of milk.

[9.3X62AL]

Sorry to read about your negative reaction to the woodsmoke.

I've been lucky so far using PatMarlin's CFF, which seems to be pine or fir shavings. Marie likes the smoky odor from the garage while I'm fluxing, too. It makes us both miss having a real fireplace to enjoy, and is reminiscent of mountain campfires. Casting ambiance!

[DLCTEX]

I have an allergy to Oak tree pollin and mountain Cedar (pollin).
I have noticed some ill effects if I get too much smoke from those sources...more so than hanging around a smoke filled bar.

I remember always waking with a headache after hanging around in smoke filled bars.:-D

[Blue Hill]

I've tried parrafin and pine shavings from a pet store and have to say I like the pine a whole lot better. Stirring with a wooden stick helps too. I think in chapter 4 of this :
From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunners
in the classics and stickies section of this forum, it's all explained as to how it works etc

[badgeredd]

I'm guessin' the cedar chips are the culprit. Cedar smoke affects me quite badly also. I regularly use pine chips or sawdust with no ill affects. Also a plus one on lighting the smoke to cut down on noxious fumes.

Edd

[a.squibload]

I remember always waking with a headache after hanging around in smoke filled bars.:-D

That smoke can be bad for you, should have tried some of their
liquid antidote!;-)

I've been using sawdust, works fine but usually seems to flux better
when there are flames present. Can't help but throw in a bit of wax
or boolit lube and a match just to flame it up.

[nanuk]

I doesn't matter if you prefer wax, I use parafin myself. It's the addition of a hydrocarbon that makes it work.

Lortab? You won't be doing much ( or anything at all, probably).


if you have oil wells nearby, you may be able to get an unlimited supply of paraffin from them. they move it out of the pipes with rubber pigs then just discard it.

when I get another chance, I'm gonna get me a pail. it should make an OK heat source also

[Hardcast416taylor]

If ya' flux, can't you use sawdust from a pencil sharpener?



I empty my pencil sharpener out about once a month into a container that I take to my casting spot out in my barn, the shavings work great. I also bought a "garage" sale food blender that I throw a small handful of chainsaw chips into and puree them for flux chips.Robert

[geargnasher]

I doesn't matter if you prefer wax, I use parafin myself. It's the addition of a hydrocarbon that makes it work.

Lortab? You won't be doing much ( or anything at all, probably).

If you only add hydrocarbons (grease, wax, oil) you're reducing oxides, but not fluxing. WW metal has all kinds of stuff in it that impair casting like aluminum (from the metallic paint on the aluminum ones), zinc oxide from some of the coatings, calcium from contaminated WW base metal, etc. The sawdust or wood shavings removes these impurities if you use a ladle to "draw up" the metal from the bottom of the pot and pour it back through the smoldering sawdust layer repeatedly, it really does work, and has a very real effect on improving the quality of your boolits if there are contaminants in there. As a bonus the reduction/oxidation reaction turns the oxide scum back into the melt also, which helps preserve the tin found in high concentrations in the surface oxide layer.

Gandydancer, I used Western Cedar planer shavings a few times to flux my casting pot, smelled wonderful at first, but started to singe my nose after a while, so I grabbed my resperator and popped in some regular "organic vapor" carbon filters. I got a mean sinus headache, but, no kidding, on that hot summer evening the mosquitoes were falling from the air like rain, found dead ones all over the place for weeks. The moths just split the scene, that's some toxic stuff. Somebody here told me the name of the chemical in the cedar and juniper trees that repels moths, it's a strong poison and some people are deathly allergic to it. Like Waksupi said, some varieties of walnut do the same thing, and walnut shells can be bad, too.

Stick with pine and you should be ok, I don't know anyone who has trouble with that sort.

As far as opiates go, sometimes I think we'd be better off if the docs would just had us a pipe and a sack of real opium rather than add all the junk they add to it to make a hundred different varieties of pain meds. Hydrocodone and Darvocet makes me itchy all over and irritable as heck, I have a cabinet full of prescriptions I filled and never took, lots of times the pain isn't as bad as the side effects, but I keep it on hand because sometimes a person just can't live with the pain. Soma is great for back pain, but I have a friend that nearly died from an allergic reaction to it when it was prescribed to him once. You never know.

Gear

[gandydancer]

I remember always waking with a headache after hanging around in smoke filled bars.:-D
yeah me to. why did we do that? and the poor woman who would be over come from the smoke. and we would have to give them a place to stay until they felt better. as bad as I felt from the smoke I was always willing to help. were a dieing breed guys. the last of the good guys.

[gandydancer]

yeah me to. why did we do that? and the poor woman who would be over come from the smoke. and we would have to give them a place to stay until they felt better. as bad as I felt from the smoke I was always willing to help. were a dieing breed guys. the last of the good guys.
I will try some wood pellets next time---- and do it out doors.. thank you all for the posts. GD

[Longwood]

Lighting the smoke with a BBQ lighter sure helps.
I have been casting for two days and if it was not smoking enough too light I added a bit of paraffin.
I seemed to get the best results by adding more and more wood then letting it burn down until I got a good covering of between an eighth and quarter inch of grey ash on the top of the melt. No messing with fluxing was necessary after that.
I probably used four hands full of fluffed up wood chips.
Scraping the sides and bottom of the pot with a squared off spoon sure helps keep stuff out of the bullets and the valve.

[SlowSmokeN]

I have been using old fashion oatmeal. Works great and smells good.

[gandydancer]

If you only add hydrocarbons (grease, wax, oil) you're reducing oxides, but not fluxing. WW metal has all kinds of stuff in it that impair casting like aluminum (from the metallic paint on the aluminum ones), zinc oxide from some of the coatings, calcium from contaminated WW base metal, etc. The sawdust or wood shavings removes these impurities if you use a ladle to "draw up" the metal from the bottom of the pot and pour it back through the smoldering sawdust layer repeatedly, it really does work, and has a very real effect on improving the quality of your boolits if there are contaminants in there. As a bonus the reduction/oxidation reaction turns the oxide scum back into the melt also, which helps preserve the tin found in high concentrations in the surface oxide layer.

Gandydancer, I used Western Cedar planer shavings a few times to flux my casting pot, smelled wonderful at first, but started to singe my nose after a while, so I grabbed my resperator and popped in some regular "organic vapor" carbon filters. I got a mean sinus headache, but, no kidding, on that hot summer evening the mosquitoes were falling from the air like rain, found dead ones all over the place for weeks. The moths just split the scene, that's some toxic stuff. Somebody here told me the name of the chemical in the cedar and juniper trees that repels moths, it's a strong poison and some people are deathly allergic to it. Like Waksupi said, some varieties of walnut do the same thing, and walnut shells can be bad, too.

Stick with pine and you should be ok, I don't know anyone who has trouble with that sort.

As far as opiates go, sometimes I think we'd be better off if the docs would just had us a pipe and a sack of real opium rather than add all the junk they add to it to make a hundred different varieties of pain meds. Hydrocodone and Darvocet makes me itchy all over and irritable as heck, I have a cabinet full of prescriptions I filled and never took, lots of times the pain isn't as bad as the side effects, but I keep it on hand because sometimes a person just can't live with the pain. Soma is great for back pain, but I have a friend that nearly died from an allergic reaction to it when it was prescribed to him once. You never know.

Gear
Thanks geargnasher. it was the ceder and the lortap I checked my little book on meds I keep sense I have had surgerys on my neck back and knees on meds that make me sick & lortap was in there. I should keep a book on meds that don't hurt me I could keep it all on a post it. I can take almost nothing in the way of meds. amoxacilin all most killed me twice I got this sick once before in 1983 on farm land where I had a teepee set up 25 feet from the front door to the back wall 22'feet wide 22' feet tall with a 4'foot fire circle . we pulled a roof beam out of an old 1858 farm house 24'feet long by12" square unknown coats of paint. I told the crew to leave it alone I would check it out later.. long story short. the cut it up in to 2'ft lenghts. i said o well and put a chunk on the fire in tepe would not burn worth a dang and smoked to high heaven made me as sick as I just was. it was mahogany I think? very dark and dense & heavy. while I was out sick the wood was stolen. GD PS

anyone need an old teepee?
__________________

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

it's what you get for highgrading those creosoted fenceposts...

Rich

[Max Brand]

Glad to hear you're okay and thanks for the warning, I'll never use cedar for smelting after reading about your ordeal!

[justingrosche]

I always remembered waking with a headache from people griping about me smoking in bars.
Nana nana boo boo.
Now I cant smoke 25 ft from any entrance or window into any buisiness in this state or I'll get a ticket.

[MBTcustom]

It sounds like you had a perfect storm with both the cedar and the meds. I can understand your not wanting to use wood anymore, but thats kind of like eating some bad sushi and swearing off all forms of fish forever. I would stay away from cedar as a matter of course, but you have to burn something in order to flux the melt properly.

I used paraphin wax for 15years before I found this sight. The wood I burn now is much less offensive than the wax smoke ever was and this is actually doing something.
I have a coffee can that I scoop the dross into while I am casting. I started using it about a year ago. I found out about wood chips about a month ago. That can is 1/3 full of a scummy silvery substance that weighs a lot, and is full up to the halfway line with light, black, powdery stuff (since I started the wood chips) Next time I fire up the big pot, I'm going to dump that whole can into the pot to reclaim all the tin and antimony and lead that is in there! I have probably thrown away several hundred pounds of lead over the years because I didn't know about wood chips. I'll deal with the wood smoke thank you.

[letsmeltlead2693]

Use crumbled up leaves to flux. It works and then flux with wax. I did that yesterday when I was melting some lead into some sinkers.

[gbrown]

Cedar is full of oils/resin. That's why they made cedar closets and cedar chests to repel moths. It is very aromatic because of the oil/resins. I walked into a cedar break a few years back when it was in pollen. By the time I got out, my jacket was yellow and I had two week's worth of sinus/allergy problems. I would think (not a Dr. or research scientist) that would be the problem. Oak/other hardwood are the woods to use, not cedar.

[gandydancer]

I just did some today useing wood pellets I wet with water and dryed out on wax paper and all went well. it cleaned the lead up very well. also did it out doors. thanks all for your help. Tom

[DrB]

Glad to hear you are ok.

I have tried various forms of wood and coffee grounds, seems to work ok (though coffee grounds in particular were probably one of the most offensive fluxes I have ever tried).

The most remarkably different results I have seen were with some scraps of dirty beeswax leftover from cleaning raw wax. It cleaned up the dross and everything seemed shiny, cleaner, etc. it also seemed as though the melt formed droplets on the surface when stirred as sometimes can be seen with water... I haven't found quite those results with any of the other bullet lubes/waxes I've tried over the years.

The results seemed both quicker and more complete than other fluxes I have tried, to include wood.

[nanuk]

Gandydancer, I used Western Cedar planer shavings a few times to flux my casting pot, smelled wonderful at first, but started to singe my nose after a while, so I grabbed my resperator and popped in some regular "organic vapor" carbon filters. I got a mean sinus headache, but, no kidding, on that hot summer evening the mosquitoes were falling from the air like rain, found dead ones all over the place for weeks. The moths just split the scene, that's some toxic stuff. Somebody here told me the name of the chemical in the cedar and juniper trees that repels moths, it's a strong poison and some people are deathly allergic to it. .....
Gear



there is a reason Cedar won't rot, and makes long lasting telephone/power poles and road sign posts.

[famdoc2892]

I appreciate the poster who pointed back to the Fryxell article above. Reminds me that it's not all about the smoke or smell, we're doing chemistry with the wood dust that we can't see, but improves the quality of our alloy! That said, we can avoid woods with noxious qualities...

[Flinchrock]

Thanks geargnasher. it was the ceder and the lortap I checked my little book on meds I keep sense I have had surgerys on my neck back and knees on meds that make me sick & lortap was in there. I should keep a book on meds that don't hurt me I could keep it all on a post it. I can take almost nothing in the way of meds. amoxacilin all most killed me twice I got this sick once before in 1983 on farm land where I had a teepee set up 25 feet from the front door to the back wall 22'feet wide 22' feet tall with a 4'foot fire circle . we pulled a roof beam out of an old 1858 farm house 24'feet long by12" square unknown coats of paint. I told the crew to leave it alone I would check it out later.. long story short. the cut it up in to 2'ft lenghts. i said o well and put a chunk on the fire in tepe would not burn worth a dang and smoked to high heaven made me as sick as I just was. it was mahogany I think? very dark and dense & heavy. while I was out sick the wood was stolen. GD PS

anyone need an old teepee?
__________________

I could always use an old teepee.