Determining "Grain" of paper

[Bill*]

Can anyone please explain the "grain" of the paper. I am perusing the PP forum out of rainy day boredom and came across it a few times. I took a magnifying glass to my printer paper and cant see anything. How would you determine the grain, or is it visible on other types of paper mentioned (vellum,onion skin, etc)?
I did a search by this posts title and didn't find the answer. Thanx....Bill

[303Guy]

When paper is rolled from pulp, the direction of the rollers determines the grain. The fibres tend to get laid out in that direction.. To find the direction, tear the paper into strips, first lengthways then cross ways and you will see that one way the tear is quite straight and the other way it wanders. The straight tear direction it the grain direction and that's what should lie in the direction of the boolit.

[geargnasher]

Take your sheet of paper and cut a 1" strip off of the shorter direction and mark it "S", then cut a strip off the longer direction of the sheet, and cut it to the same length as the first and mark it "L". Hold the two strips by one end horizonally and let the strip hang down under it's own weight, the one that droops more is "cross grain" and the one that resists drooping more has the grain going lengthwise. I prefer to cut mine crosswise like you would slice fajita meat because it gives more stretch when wet and more shrink when dry, and also resists tearing better when you twist the tail over sharp bases.

Gear

[supe47]

Another way. Cut a small (2"x2") piece of paper keeping track which side is length and width. Spray or moisten ONE side of paper. Lay it down and watch the paper curl. The legs of the curl will tell you the direction of the grain. The legs will be parallel to the grain. I spray, even used Windex once. It works, Kinda fun, too.

[windrider919]

Here again is an instance of where the 'knowledge base' of the old timers fails to hold up

If you go by the Black Powder shooters Paper Patch system for 'best results' you will use your paper in the right "way".

However, some people are either from Missouri and have to be shown or are the type to question old procedures because they may no longer be applicable due to changes from then to now. Hence the "Smokeless Paper Patch" section separate from the 'other guys' because we don't play well together.

And having a certain type of paper and the patches cut so the grain runs a specific way is one of them.

My philosophy is "Question Authority", especially when reasons such as "We have always done it that way." are given.

So I tested many types of paper and oriented the grain in 'standard', opposite and even diagonal ways.

And found that MANY modern paper preforms as good as or better than the traditional rag paper. Perhaps in years past only the premium paper would work for PP.....but with today's quality control and advanced manufacturing...even common paper works. About the only paper that did NOT work was paper that was too thick [grocery sack] or too flimsy wet to wrap properly/easily ( although as a experiment, I even carefully used cigarette paper, 4 wraps instead of two and it WORKED/SHOT FINE! )

The ONLY reason for paying any attention to how the grain runs is that it WRAPS a .. tiny .. bit easier the 'old way'...but shoots just as good cut ANY WAY!

{ I believe 303Guy has started down the same road in his testing...Correct? }

You have now been anointed.....now go burn some Nitrocellulose/ Nitroglycerine incense.

[303Guy]

No, I didn't specifically test grain direction. I dry wrap so it doesn't matter to me. However, it might make a difference in certain circumstances with regard to patch disintegration at the muzzle. That would be at minimal loadings if at all I should think. It might also make a difference with regard to patch survival down the bore. I'm only speculating.

But one thing I do agree on - one should always question conventional wisdom. If nothing else it gives us an understanding of why things are done in a certain way (and those ways are often right!)

[geargnasher]

I have my reasons why I wrap the way I do as I said above, and I don't know or care how they did it 150 years ago because I can't tell it makes a lick of difference in the way they shoot with HV smokeless. At 2700 fps the paper will not fail to confetti due to which direction the long fibers went. Neither can I tell that it makes any difference if you wrap "with" the rifling twist or "against" it. It DOES matter when you wet wrap, even with 100% vellum I have to cut the patches 1/16" shorter when cutting across the grain because they stretch so much more. With notebook, sketch, tracing, copy, and green bar paper they stretch over 1/8" more just by swapping from lengthwise to crosswise.

Gear

[windrider919]

I have my reasons why I wrap the way I do as I said above, and I don't know or care how they did it 150 years ago because I can't tell it makes a lick of difference in the way they shoot with HV smokeless. At 2700 fps the paper will not fail to confetti due to which direction the long fibers went. Neither can I tell that it makes any difference if you wrap "with" the rifling twist or "against" it. It DOES matter when you wet wrap, even with 100% vellum I have to cut the patches 1/16" shorter when cutting across the grain because they stretch so much more. With notebook, sketch, tracing, copy, and green bar paper they stretch over 1/8" more just by swapping from lengthwise to crosswise.

Gear

Actually, thats a + on that that.

I overlooked/forgot that I do always make a 'test' bullet with the paper I am using that time to determine patch length for proper lap so my previous post was incomplete.

[pdawg_shooter]

I have my reasons why I wrap the way I do as I said above, and I don't know or care how they did it 150 years ago because I can't tell it makes a lick of difference in the way they shoot with HV smokeless. At 2700 fps the paper will not fail to confetti due to which direction the long fibers went. Neither can I tell that it makes any difference if you wrap "with" the rifling twist or "against" it. It DOES matter when you wet wrap, even with 100% vellum I have to cut the patches 1/16" shorter when cutting across the grain because they stretch so much more. With notebook, sketch, tracing, copy, and green bar paper they stretch over 1/8" more just by swapping from lengthwise to crosswise.

Gear

My exact experience with green bar paper. I want the tightest wrap I can get so I always cut across the grain.

[Bill*]

Thank you all, I appreciate the info.

[Arctic Blues]

Yeap!

What Bill* said :)

Thanks Folks!

[goofyoldfart]

don't know how many times I've read posts on grain of the paper--you know --how it goes, which way to stretch, etc.,etc. But I must say for some reason that this thread seemed to sink into my head for once. thanks to all. God Bless all and theirs.

Goofy

[Nobade]

Heck, my reason for cutting it the way I do is my paper cutter isn't very big and it won't cut on the long axis. So I always cut on the short axis and it works just fine. Someday if I get a bigger paper cutter I'll try it the other way and see if it matters.