PDA

View Full Version : Home Made BP Lube recipies?



Char-Gar
03-19-2007, 03:31 PM
It goes against the very grain of my nature to buy bullet lube, so please give me some home made formulas that can be made with localy available stuff. (no steam cylinder or sperm whale oils).

I have lots and lots of beeswax, so lets keep it to a base of that sutff.

Thanks...

martinibelgian
03-19-2007, 03:37 PM
Well - 50/50 beeswax/olive oil, or peanut oil. Quite simple, and it works...

SharpsShooter
03-19-2007, 03:39 PM
I think Matthews recipe is 50-50 beeswax and vaseline, but since vaseline is petroleum based and that is not good with BP so I haven't used it personally. Junior1942 has a recipe on his site that I have used and it works fine. Bullshops NASA is the stuff as far as I am concerned.

SS

gregg
03-19-2007, 05:52 PM
Darr suppose to be like SPG???


Buck Emmert's Lube Formula


1750 grains Beeswax
1368 grains Crisco Shortening (White)
328 grains Crisco or Wesson Vegatable Oil

This recipe makes 1/2 pound lubricant. If you tray lube as I do, you'll probably want to double the recipe.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry Darr #1 - From the Cast Bullet Mailing List (CB-L):
Paraffin 50% Vasaline 50% old RCBS case lube 1 tbs per lb. of mix
Notes:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry Darr #2 - From the Cast Bullet Mailing List (CB-L):
Paraffin 50% Vasaline 50%
Notes:
Same as Barry Darr #1 but minus the RCBS case lube

Boz330
03-19-2007, 06:04 PM
8oz beeswax, 6oz Safflower oil and 2oz Balistol. All measurements are by weight. I got this from this site some time ago. I think it was posted by Montanan or something like that. It works quite well but I'm using Bullshop's Nasa for convienience and it works good as well.
The first time I tried the above formula I shot 10 rounds as fast as I could with no blow tubing or anything else. A dry patch went right down the bore without much trouble. My old lube would stop and the jag would be pushed through.
The petroleum jelly mix doesn't seem to have the normal problems that are associated with petro and BP. It was the only lube that I used for years, but there are better things around now.
There are lots of formulas out there and I'm sure that these fall into the "more than one way to skin a cat" category.

Bob

Boz330
03-19-2007, 06:19 PM
Gregg, I'm glad you didn't muddy the water a little.[smilie=1: I think that is more than I really wanted to know about lube.:confused:
Seriously though are those all supposed to be BP lubes, some sound like they would be better suited to smokeless?

Bob

threett1
03-19-2007, 06:54 PM
What I use in my trapdoors and Italian Sharps; 5 parts beeswax, 5 parts crisco, 1 part canola oil. Found it on the web one time and thought I'd try it. Does a great job for me especially with Swiss black powder in my 40/65. Almost the Emmerts formula but not quite.

Harpman
03-19-2007, 07:43 PM
I'm begining to think 50% beeswax and 50% anything will work great, I have tried 50 beeswax, and crisco, olive oil, smaller amounts of lanolin, etc. its all good in my gun, very accurate as long its around half beeswax it seems.

Hud
03-19-2007, 08:02 PM
One pound bee's wax
one pound citronella candle
2 tablespoons shortening

Use the cheap candles that come in the bucket. They are usually about 3 to 5 % (5% is best) citronella oil. The shortening is to soften. Heat and mix, cool and test for texture. Want it softer, add more shortening etc. A great black powder cartridge lube. Makes a great patch lube as well. Pour or place lube on the patches, microwave, stir and micro again to make sure patches are well lubed.

All else fails, try 50/50 bee's wax and crisco (vegatable shortening) let cool after mixing and rub into patches.


Hud

Larry Gibson
03-19-2007, 09:10 PM
I keep it simple with 5 parts beeswax/4 parts olive oil.

Larry Gibson

John Boy
03-19-2007, 11:31 PM
Chargar, here's a whole mess of them (historical and modern day) ... http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=450.0

G. Blessing
03-20-2007, 12:28 AM
One pound bee's wax
one pound citronella candle
2 tablespoons shortening

Use the cheap candles that come in the bucket. They are usually about 3 to 5 % (5% is best) citronella oil. The shortening is to soften. Heat and mix, cool and test for texture. Want it softer, add more shortening etc. A great black powder cartridge lube. Makes a great patch lube as well. Pour or place lube on the patches, microwave, stir and micro again to make sure patches are well lubed.

Hud

I wonder if the citronella would help keep the skeeters away while I shoot.... :mrgreen:

G.
[smilie=1:

mtngunr
03-20-2007, 03:38 AM
Olive oil/beeswax, add more wax in hot weather, more oil in cold weather.....added wintergreen oil once and some FDA Yellow to complete the Bore Butter experience, but why bother.....

gregg
03-20-2007, 08:12 AM
Gregg, I'm glad you didn't muddy the water a little.[smilie=1: I think that is more than I really wanted to know about lube.:confused:
Seriously though are those all supposed to be BP lubes, some sound like they would be better suited to smokeless?

Bob
Your right got carried away . Just got looking on the net and started running into
all these intresting lube ideas.

Somthing I have had NOT WORK for me is a Bees wax and crisco?
50 50. Will work ok not great when fresh on the bullet BUT IF LOADED
OVER TIME. Seems to lose its ablity to lube. like it spoils. Heavy on SPOILS.
Has anyone else seen this?
the Darr lube is suppose to be a BP lube but I have never tryed it. Read in a book
by someone here they heard its SPG Lube??? Just looking
don't see how it work well with BP being its not nateral oils.

Char-Gar
03-20-2007, 08:19 AM
Thanks boys for the great info.. I knew you guys would have some knowledge in this area.. charles

Char-Gar
03-20-2007, 08:26 AM
oh yes... you beeswax and olive oil boys.. How do you measure these parts with one being a solid and the other being a liquid?

sundog
03-20-2007, 08:53 AM
Charles, I do not know where I got this from. I've got some slugs in a pan right now getting ready. It will be the first time to use it. Easy enough to make.

8 oz beeswax
6 oz safflower oil
2 oz Ballistol

Boz330
03-20-2007, 09:24 AM
Right here Sundog, it was up about 8 months ago. That is the same lube that I put up, but not my recipe. It does seem to work quite well though.
Make sure the wife isn't home when you make it up though, Balistol isn't the best smelling stuff in the world. My buddy is still catching grief from several months ago, especially when she found out he used some of her pots to make it up. My wifes smeller doesn't work to well so I can get away with it, and I have my own mixing equipment.

Bob

deadguy
03-20-2007, 09:32 AM
I use 1 part Crisco, plus 1 part Olive Oil, plus 1 part candle wax. It works good for me.

felix
03-20-2007, 09:52 AM
safflower oil will go rancid like peanut oil in short order, so make enough to shoot and not to store for some time. When storing, figure out some way to wrap the lube up while still warm, say 110 degrees, and store in a coffee can with something that will fumigate the air within the can after closed. Mothballs? Don't know. Canola oil is perhaps the best compromise, probably, but the best would be safflower because it burns so clean. ... felix

Boz330
03-20-2007, 10:07 AM
I put my extra in the freezer, you think that would work ok?

Bob

G. Blessing
03-20-2007, 11:52 AM
There are these from Stumpkiller over at; http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com

I use the Moose snot for patched round ball, works great. I've got some with ivory soap in it instead of the murphys, is OK too. The murphys oil soap is great by itself in hot water for BP fouling clean up.

Copied from;
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/203261/

"
Stumpy's Moose Juice

A general purpose blackpowder solvent and liquid patch lube. Shake well before using

Castor Oil 3 oz.
Murphy's Oil Soap 1 oz.
Witch Hazel 4 oz.
Isopropyl Alcohol (91%) 8 oz.
Water (non-chlorinated if available) 16 oz.

I dip my patching in this twice and let it dry laid flat on wax paper in between. Makes a semi-dry patch material that's easy to carry & use. If you don't mind carrying a little bottle it's a GREAT liquid lube as is.


Stumpy's Moose Snot

A premium multi-shot between wiping (10+) patch lube stable over a wide temperature range.
SPECIFICALLY designed for use of patched round balls in a loading block

Beeswax 2 oz.
Castor Oil 8 oz.
Murphy's Oil Soap 1 oz.


Heat beeswax in a soup can set a pot of water. ( A double-boiler. I keep my beeswax in a one pound coffee can and measure out what I need by melting it and pouring it into measuring cups). Add just enough water so the inner can does not begin to float (should be just short of the lube level in the can). Heat the water to a low boil. In a separate can, add the castor oil and Murphy's oil soap (cold). Once the beeswax is melted, swap the castor oil can in the pot of water for the beeswax. Add the beeswax to the oils. It will clump up. Stir with an ice tea spoon as the mixture heats up. When it fully melts there will be a scum that floats to the top and just won't mix in. Be patient. DO NOT COOK THE MIXTURE. Once the solids are dissolved there is no need to heat further. Skim the scum off. Remove the mix from the heat and wipe the water off the outside (so it won't drip into the container when you pour it out). FINAL TOP SECRET STEP: Add a teaspoon of Murphy's Oil Soap and stir vigorously. This last step makes the lube frothy and smooth - really adds to the appearance; though it doesn't seem to matter to the function of the lube. Clamp the can in the jaws of a vice-grip pliers and pour into the waiting tins. Allow to cool a half hour.

Note: it if is a hinged tin - line the edge that has the hinges with a strip of aluminum foil so it doesn't ooze out before it cools. "


G.

G. Blessing
03-20-2007, 11:58 AM
oh yes... you beeswax and olive oil boys.. How do you measure these parts with one being a solid and the other being a liquid?

I put the olive oil in the can I use for my double boiler, and mark the level on the can. Pour out the oil, and melt the bees wax a bit at a time untill I reach the level mark. Put the oil back and mix.

Hope that helps. 8-)

G.

Kenny Wasserburger
03-20-2007, 03:54 PM
Lubes:

A sticky subject at best.

That said, I have tried alot of them over the years. Most of the recipies work very well as long as a its over 30% humidity and the temps under 90.

Once you get down under 17% humidity and the temp is over 90 your in trouble, almost all the above recipies FAIL badly!

I have shot at Raton for over 10 years testing many many lubes and most have failed me at one time or another. In the long strings shooting Creedmoor with a big caliber that dumps tons of heat and powder down the barrel, (45-110) One and only one lube has so for worked for me. White Lighting the stuff Dan Theodore makes works period. Its not cheap although. Controling the barrel temp is a must but often times you dont have a choice. The American's Cup match that I shot in at Phoenix last week required you to get off a min of 18 shots in less then 30 mins. With the air temp at 93-96 and the humidity at 7% I used bore Dawgs. My barrel was so hot after the 18 shots that you could not touch it.

If your not going to shoot in HOT dry conditions then just about any of the old lube recipies work.

As expensive as it is to travel and the cost of rifles and lead and powder, DONT GO Cheap on the Lube.

My 2 cents worth.

Kenny W.

montana_charlie
03-20-2007, 05:12 PM
Speaking of Dan Theodore, and his lubes...

I don't know how long ago Dan posted this recipe. And, I don't know if he developed it before he started selling lube. Another question I cannot answer is about how it compares to Dan's White Lightning.

The only thing I do know about this recipe is...it came from Dan Theodore, and it was posted on the BPCR (dot) net site a long time ago.
CM

"Great For Hot, Dry Conditions" - sourced from Dan Theodore

Ingredients, Procedures, Notes, etc.

All measures are by volume.

4 parts refined beeswax
2 parts LubeGard's "Valve and Assembly Lubricant"
2 parts anhydrous lanolin.

OR

5 parts refined beeswax
3 parts LubeGard
2 parts anhydous lanolin. "This makes a dandy lube for dry, hot conditions."

Note: LubeGard should be available at any NAPA Auto Supply store.
Note: Refined beeswax and anhydrous lanolin are available from: http://www.from-nature-with-love.com/soap/.

Melt the beeswax and anhydrous lanolin in a double boiler. Once both are well melted, add the LubeGard and stir for a minute. This lube works well for pan-lubing, as well as through a lube-sizer.

Kenny Wasserburger
03-20-2007, 06:26 PM
Dan's White Lighting lube has no beeswax in it.

Kenny W.

Bob S
03-20-2007, 07:18 PM
Kenny:

Where can I get some of Mr. Theodore's White Lightnin?

I Googled it, and all the hits lead back to forums discussions (like this one) giving it high praise, but no source/purchase information.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

Kenny Wasserburger
03-20-2007, 09:05 PM
Bob,

Check The New ISSUE Of the BPCR news.

Gentleman Jim Products carries it and has a Add in the new issue of BPCR news.

Kenny Wasserburger

Harpman
03-20-2007, 09:13 PM
I measure mine like they do on TV food shows, I grab a blob of crisco and say oh bout this much, for about hhmmm this much wax, a smithering of oil,seems to work fine, and a dabblet of lanolin..my screwed up way of doing this never fails in temps from 50-100 degrees....that Georgia sun

rockrat
03-20-2007, 09:33 PM
I don't get BPCR news, so a website address where I can get some would be appreciated.

Kenny Wasserburger
03-20-2007, 10:11 PM
Jim Terry does not have a web site.


Email him at gentlemanjimproducts@msn.com


He works for a living as a BLM blade operator. So he only gets home every 4-5 days.

Kenny Wasserburger

wills
03-20-2007, 10:22 PM
I think Mr. Theodore is a member on one or both of these boards

http://groups.msn.com/BPCR
http://www.bpcr.net/forum/index.php

DonH
03-21-2007, 07:08 AM
My understanding from those who have experimented extensively with lube ingredients and formulas is that the wax, for the most part, does little in the way of lubricating but rather is mostly a carrier for the other ingredients. Might not make so much difference with smokeless but with black powder I preder a lube with more going for it than the 50/50 blends.
My own lube is the same proportions as Emmert's with sheep fat/tallow inplace of crisco and canola oil replacing the veg. oil. I add one tablespoon of lanolin the mix. This blend works here in the Midwest for black powder and also with smokeless for schuetzen. A friend uses basically the same formula but has used other oils such as castor oil and mineral oi. I have watched him many times shoot 60 - 70 shots without blow tubing or wiping the barrel.

The Darr lube (beeswax, parafin, STP) works well for smokeless in handguns and rifles but is not for black powde. This from Barry himself fairly recently on the ASSRA forum.


BTW, all ingredients are measured in liquid form exc. for the tablespoon thing.l

Black Prince
03-21-2007, 10:03 AM
Fellows, ya'll knoiw a lot more about this than I do, but one of the reasons the old timers used sperm oil when they could get it is because it has a high smoke point.

Today, oils that we can commonly get have smoke points as follows:

Sunflower 392 degrees
Corn 410
Grape seed 446
safflower 450
Almond 495
Avacado 520

It would seem to me, a novice, that the higher the smoke point of the oil used, the less burned on fouling you would have in the barrel. I am going to make some lube using the highest smoke point oil I can find using bees wax as the carrier and see if it makes any difference.

Have any of you boys more experienced in this sort of thing ever used any of the oils listed here with higher smoke points, and if so, have you noticed any difference in performance?

felix
03-21-2007, 10:36 AM
BP, not only the smoke point, but what kind of smoke. Hard to really decide on what the mix should be, unless you are shooting in the conditions mentioned, like hot and dry, and then on the same day, if possible, cold and wet, and somewhere in between. I can't help but thinking that the final lube already exists, or can easily be made (via database of virtual components for building blocks), for all conditions and all powder formulations. No doubt the final product will be a polymer of sorts. Nobody is going to produce it for the gun world unless there is a demand and profits made. ... felix

martinibelgian
03-21-2007, 10:53 AM
BP,
You forgot the smoke point of your beeswax... That's the weak point. And then there is the type of fouling left when it burns off. I don't use beeswax anymore, there's better lube carriers.

montana_charlie
03-21-2007, 11:45 AM
one of the reasons the old timers used sperm oil when they could get it is because it has a high smoke point.
Gimme a minute and I'll recall which oil (available today) is supposed to be better than sperm oil...

I don't use beeswax anymore, there's better lube carriers.Names...?

CM

Char-Gar
03-21-2007, 11:59 AM
I have wondered about the use of Dexron III ATF in lieu of Sperm Oil as it was developed to replace Sperm oil in early automatic transmissions.

felix
03-21-2007, 12:03 PM
Jojoba oil = sperm whale substitute for the most part. The felix lube mailed out from the big batch contained it, about 75 bucks worth. ... felix

felix
03-21-2007, 12:07 PM
Bob, don't know about the freezer. Should work for some bugs, that's for sure. But, you never know which bug you have, and which bug does what to what. In other words, try it and see. ... felix

montana_charlie
03-21-2007, 12:19 PM
Jojoba oil = sperm whale substitute for the most part.
Yeah, I should have mentioned that jojoba is the commonly accepted substitute for sperm oil, but there is another that I've only seen mentioned once...and I think it was Dan Theodore who said it.

I used to have a note saved that had the name, but I may have discarded it...
CM

Ha! Found it!
No, I didn't find my saved note, but I did find a document which contains the name...and it is a discussion of sperm oil substitutes.
http://books.google.com/books?id=g6RfkqCUQyQC&pg=PA52&lpg=PA52&dq=substitute+for+sperm+whale+oil&source=web&ots=UP7g7RMvZm&sig=2uwL_QYzoKU4C5iFpuR-Tzju6oM

The substance is "meadowfoam" oil.
CM

Boz330
03-21-2007, 12:56 PM
I've seen this mentioned as an ingredient for boolit lube but don't remember where. It didn't sound like it would be all that easy to find.

Bob

Bullshop
03-21-2007, 01:06 PM
BP,
You forgot the smoke point of your beeswax... That's the weak point. And then there is the type of fouling left when it burns off. I don't use beeswax anymore, there's better lube carriers.
martinibelgian
Go ahead, I am listening!
BIC/BS

martinibelgian
03-21-2007, 02:03 PM
BS, the often maligned paraffin is better - holds more active ingredient for a same consistency, and gives less burnoff residue. Just try it. Moreover, it is purer than most beeswaxes as purchased. the other stuff is microwax, another paraffin-like wax. This is what I use as carrier. The active ingredient is mainly lanolin with some oil added, to finetune the consistency (olive oil - peanut oil - whatever).
How did I get there? By reading some shooting books from the 80's - 1880's, that is...

rockrat
03-21-2007, 02:59 PM
I thought paraffin was a petroleum product and as such, was a no-no for black powder shooting?

felix
03-21-2007, 03:43 PM
Yes, the paraffins are petro waxes. The finer the grain, the more "micro" it is, and each grade more micro usually carries a higher melting point as well as viscosity. The so called canning wax is the largest grained petro wax, and has the lowest melting point. ... felix

Hip's Ax
03-21-2007, 05:07 PM
4 parts refined beeswax
2 parts LubeGard's "Valve and Assembly Lubricant"
2 parts anhydrous lanolin.
[/i]

FYI

I went looking for LubeGard VAL and found their website but no product with this name. I e-mailed them

"I've been looking on your website for a product I've been told you make called "Valve and Assembly Lubricant". Has it been discontinued?"

and got the following respose.

"This product has not been discontinued. We actually did a major packaging change to the product and now sell it as Lubegard Premium Lubricant. The product comes in a 16 Oz Silver Spray bottle. The product is under the same part number as the Valve & Assembly, 61016."

Through internet searching I found that this product may be soy based.

martinibelgian
03-21-2007, 05:47 PM
I thought paraffin was a petroleum product and as such, was a no-no for black powder shooting?
Rockrat, one of the 'mythical' generalisations BP shooting is suffering from (kinda like the no airspace thing) - it works perfectly, doesn't leave any nasty residue. Only a small fraction of the petro products will get you the nasty stuff - and some non-petro ingredients too! You don't have to believe me, just try it...
FWIW, paraffin was a typical ingredient in BP rounds in the 19th century - if it gave problems, the oldtimers would have never used it.
This is just one of those things that gets repeated over and over on the 'net, and while there is a grain of truth in it, you have to look very far for it. Paraffin leaves less fouling than beeswax - just put both in a pan on a fire and check the residue when they start to carbonize. while there, also check at what temp they start to do so, and you'll see...

Gussy
03-21-2007, 06:27 PM
A thought on storing in the freezer. Freezer burn comes to mind. It will dry out your lube unless you vac pack it.
Gus

enfield
03-21-2007, 07:05 PM
am I the only one using bacon fat :confused: I just mix bees wax, crisco, olive oil (not sure if it's virgin or not[smilie=1: ) and bacon fat (because it was there). I don't measure , just go by feel. is the salt in bacon bad :shock: I just mixed this up once and made plenty so I haven't tried anything else.

montana_charlie
03-21-2007, 07:56 PM
I think I heard that bacon fat is the perfect lube for out-of-round (egg-shaped) bullets...

Anybody have good things to say about soy wax?
CM

Black Prince
03-21-2007, 08:17 PM
Wal gol dang it, thar ya go again Montana C. You are so far over my head, I doan even know how far it is cause I doan know what soy wax is. Ya'll jiss S-L-O-W down a little so us s-l-o-w learners can catch up how about it?

And what are micro waxes while I'm confessing ignorance here? All I can find is the common canning parafin wax. Where would one find micro waxes and would one even want to find them?

As I understand it, the purpose of the lube is to keep the BP fouling soft so that the next round can be fired down the barrel through the fouling of the previous shot. So if the lube also produces an ash or fouling, we have a problem. What we want is a lube that restricts leading and one that maintains a soft, consistant coating of BP fouling instead of a hard ash coating.

Some of ya'll figer this out and let me know what the formula is please cause I doan know nuthin' about this kinda stuff and when I get to thinkin' on it, it makes my head hurt and I hafta drink whiskey to make it stop. Ya'll makin' ah drunk outta me.

Bob S
03-22-2007, 12:11 AM
http://www.jojobaking.com/?gclid=CP2sk5zAh4sCFR3qgAoduWyrEQ

Resp'y,
Bob S.

Black Prince
03-22-2007, 09:24 AM
Got any idea of the smoke point of the ho ho baa oil Bob?

Also, why isn't glycerin an ingredient in BP bullet lubes? It is slick and hydroscopic. Seems to me that it could be beneficial to a black powder bullet lube that needed moisture, but then, you could write a book about what I don't know about bullet lubes.
_________

Black Prince, who is shooting Emmerett's with no problems, but would like to stop having to give his rifle a blow job after every shot.

Boz330
03-22-2007, 10:16 AM
I'll bet that smels good anyway. It would have everyone on the line wanting to break for breakfast.

Bob

gregg
03-22-2007, 01:26 PM
I have wondered about the use of Dexron III ATF in lieu of Sperm Oil as it was developed to replace Sperm oil in early automatic transmissions.

I was wondering the same thing.

gregg
03-22-2007, 01:34 PM
Yes, the paraffins are petro waxes. The finer the grain, the more "micro" it is, and each grade more micro usually carries a higher melting point as well as viscosity. The so called canning wax is the largest grained petro wax, and has the lowest melting point. ... felix
Where would one find the different grades of this wax??

felix
03-22-2007, 01:57 PM
Candle making suppliers for small quantities. Get the melting point variety necessary for the application. Anything over 180 is not needed and in fact can be detrimental. 140 is typical for canning wax, and if you can find a micrograin that melts there, that would be my preference, especially for BP. ... felix

Black Prince
03-22-2007, 09:10 PM
Wal now gol dern it Felix, furss it's Montana Charlie, and now you goin' waaaay over my hiad. If canning parrafin wax melts at 140, why would anyone want to go to all the trouble of finding a "micro wax" that melts at 140? WHUTZ tha difference? Seems to me like melting at 140 is melting at 140. WHUR am I going wrong here?

Yew jiss jerkin' my chain ain'tcha? I done tole ya this stuff gives me a headache and I hafta drink whiskey to make it stop and yew ain't helping none, no yew ain't.

Besides that, I'm all outta whiskey.

And that's Charlie's fault fer confuzicating me tha furss time about soy wax. Betcha he wuz jiss jerkin' my chain too. Betcha they ain't even no sech thang as soy wax.
________

Black Prince whose wondering why ya'll are picking on him.

vmt_hntr
03-22-2007, 09:44 PM
Not many mentioned the Paul Mathews lube from his books. Guess Neatsfoot oil is not used by many....along with the other 2 ingredients..Murphy's oil soap and beeswax....in a 1:1:2 ratio as per above. Just wonder if anyone else has used his recipes?..I like the way it flows thru the heated Lyman sizer dies...and from what I can tell...works real well in my 45-120 Sharps, but I don't shoot competition......FWIW...Bob in Indiana

wills
03-22-2007, 09:52 PM
Betcha they ain't even no sech thang as soy wax.
________

Black Prince whose wondering why ya'll are picking on him.


It appears there is soy wax, used in making candles.
http://www.soya.be/soy-wax-history.php
http://www.soyawax.com
http://www.soywaxcandles.org
http://www.millcreeksoywaxcandlesupply.com
http://www.northstar3c.com
http://www.naturalwaxcandle.com
http://www.candlesupply.com/EZsoy.html
http://www.earthguild.com/products/candle/soywax.htm
http://www.creativeilluminations.com/category_8.php

Boz330
03-23-2007, 09:04 AM
Black Prince, that will teach you not to challege the board. Wills is man of few words but lots of answers and succinct, no long winded thesis for him.

Bob

Black Prince
03-23-2007, 11:06 AM
Hell BozBoy, I ain't challenged anything here . . . YET, but if or when I do, you'll know it because I will lay out the challenge clearly, describe it, define it, and ask for the board members to help solve it. All I am doing is asking questions because there are things posted here that are open ended and leaves a lot of room for explanation.

It is evident from all of the discussion here that no one seems to have a lube that satisfies the requirements for hot and dry conditions. THAT is the purpose of this discussion which is NOT a challenge other than we are all challenged to find the solution. When terms and materials not commonly used or found are thrown out in the discussion here without complete descriptions and how they might help solve the problem under discussion, you, and the board, should expect people to question whatinhell you are talking about. That is because if you had the answer to the issue under discussion here, we wouldn't be having the discussion in the first place. I knew there is soy wax and was injecting humor into the discussion. What does soy wax have to do with the solution to a lube for hot, dry conditions? THAT was my question and Wills did not answer it haw, haw, haw.

If you have a problem with open discourse and good humor, or the honest questioning of materials and applications, or the solution to the matter under discussion here, you may want to abstain from entering the dialogue since your comments contribute nothing to the solution or to civil conversation. Otherwise, I look forward to working with you and the members of the board to help advance the fine art of shooting BPCR's more accurately and effectively.

Now have you boys come to any conclusion or consensus on what the formula for a BP lube designed for hot and dry conditions might be? Somebody that knows way more than I do please throw one out for consideration. Montana Charlie, you are not shy and you know your stuff. What do you think might be a possible formula? Should the carrier be bees wax or canning wax parrfin? Any of you other guys have an idea? Martinibelgin what about it? Felix? I know you know something to help here. If so, throw it out and I'll make some of it and try it, then report back here how it worked. I'd do it on my own, but it is obvious that I don't have a clue and that is why I am here trying to learn about this stuff.

45 2.1
03-23-2007, 11:40 AM
It is evident from all of the discussion here that no one seems to have a lube that satisfies the requirements for hot and dry conditions. THAT is the purpose of this discussion which is NOT a challenge other than we are all challenged to find the solution.

There has been a proposed solution for that. Search for threads with "lanotec" in them. I have tried to get some from an Australian member, but have not concluded talks yet. I also now have family in Australia that I have contacted about this.

martinibelgian
03-23-2007, 12:39 PM
Lanotec - which basically is Lanolin - is the other main ingredient in my bullet lube (lanolin, of course...). Unfortunately, Belgium being hte country it is, hot and dry is something we rarely - if ever - experience here! But the stuff works to my satisfaction, so...

Boz330
03-23-2007, 12:55 PM
Black Prince, I think that you misunderstood what I was trying to say. You questioned soy wax and Wills came up with the websites that would head one in the right direction. There was absolutely NO negativity intended in my remarks. It just tickles me how Wills comes up with these websites and post them with so little comment. That was my attempt at humor. I thought that you really were wondering were to get soywax.
Beleive me no one would like to see a lube that would answer these questions more than me. While I'm not as far south as you, it still gets plenty hot here in the middle of the summer. I am here to learn like many other folks and contribute when I have something that I have first hand knowledge of.
I'm sorry that you took my response as being negative but beleive me I am the last person that you will ever see, post an intentional negative comment on this or any other forum. I was brought up so that if you didn't have anything good to say keep your mouth shut. Life is to short to be in a pi$$in contest over my hobby.

Bob

Bullshop
03-23-2007, 01:26 PM
Black Prince
There is a BP lube that was made for high temp and low humidity conditions.
It is called NASA lube and is available from the bull shop. Link at bottom of page. Do a search for the nasa lube test report somwhere in our BP forums here. Check it out, might be just what ya need.
bic/bs

montana_charlie
03-23-2007, 01:30 PM
Montana Charlie, you are not shy and you know your stuff. What do you think might be a possible formula?
It's hard to describe the relief I felt while reading your most recent post, Black Prince. I had been afraid that your erudition had (somehow) abandoned you.
Now, I understand that you were simply havin' a bit of fun.

Shy? Not me... Know my stuff? Debatable (depending on subject)...

I, too, am no 'lube engineer'.
I have only made one batch of lube in my life, and it was just an attempt to duplicate SPG. I haven't even tried it, as I still have SPG in my luber.

I have a generous sample of Bullshop's NAPA lube and a half-stick of White Lable BPCR Supreme, which I have not yet tried. Perhaps one (or both) of them will fill the bill for a hot/dry lube when those conditions are seen here. Our past winter was disappointingly dry, but not hot.

The best reputation I have seen for a hot/dry lube is the White Lightning from Dan Theodore. But the lube is somewhat expensive, and a little difficult to come by. Add the fact that it is only packaged in one-pound tubs (which weigh 14 ounces) and you must buy two at a time...it makes a guy spend $60 plus shipping, just to try it.
I (and perhaps many others) would love to know the secret recipe, but Dan has done a good job of keeping that to himself.
I do keep my ears (eyes) tuned for any inadvertant hints about the formula...

When Kenny Wasserburger mentioned that White Lightning does not use a beeswax base, I popped out 'soywax' simply because I had heard it mentioned (somewhere) in a lube discussion...and it's the only wax other than paraffin that I've read about being used in lube. I hoped mention of it would generate a discussion (by knowledgeable individuals) which would further my 'economic espionage' attempts...since there is no 'patent expiration date' to wait for.

Heck! I even posted a question on another forum to get DanT to share his thoughts on waxes. He is very forthcoming on other subjects, but he didn't respond to the wax thread...and I can't blame him for that if 'any honest answer' would mean spilling the beans.

However, Black Prince, I would remind you of the recipe I posted earlier in the thread.
Having some faith in DanT as a 'lube engineer', I'd bet that his 'old' formula will make a pretty good Global Warming Lube...but I have not tried it.

Here is something all of you can note for future reference...
If I ever do discover the secret for White Lightning, I will not advertise the fact publicly.

But, if I ever post a lube formula named Lost Dutchman, you should try it...
CM

Dale53
03-23-2007, 04:51 PM
I am no longer active in the Black Powder Cartridge game (schuetzen bench rest has claimed me).

However, I still have ties to some serious and VERY successful BPCR shooters, both silhouette and long range. Understand one thing up front, there is indeed more than one way to skin a cat:

A very popular practice today is to use a rather common and available lube (SPG, Pioneer, or Emmert's Home Mix, original or modified, etc) and then simply wipe the bore in between shots. If you go about it correctly, it is no harder than using a blow tube and IS more effective.

A close friend, who placed well at both Silhouettes and Long Range at Raton this year (as well as several places elsewhere) pre-prepares patches by soaking them in a mixture of NAPA water soluble oil and water (I believe 10 water/1 NAPA oil). He then takes a stack of patches, puts them between two boards and squeezes all excess out of the patches. He then puts them in an air tight jar (the jar that Tucks "butt wipes" comes in is ideal. The patches, after preparation, are damp, NOT wet.

After each shot, he pushes a single patch through the barrel and lets it fall in front of him (cleans up after the match). Loads and fires the next one to repeat ad finitum. No dry patches, no cleaning, just "Shoot and wipe, Shoot and wipe". This works equally well in the most moist of weather to the most dry of weather. THAT is what a LOT of the BIG BOYS are doing. No secret ingredients, no horrible expense, just a plan that WORKS. The shooter has a barrel with absolutely consistent "bore condition" no matter how many shots he fires.

I offer it to you free of cost...:)

Dale53

Black Prince
03-23-2007, 07:43 PM
Dale

Did you see my question about Texas Mac? Do you know how to contact him about his Browning BPCR book? I want a copy if it is ready.

Well now Boz, I had hoped that you were just joshing me because I appreciate humor more than you know since most people seem to have little of it now days, but I wasn't really sure what you meant. Like I said, I am just trying to learn stuff here and because this board has a lot of sho-nuff BPCR shooters who have been there and done that and have the scar tissue to prove it, so I like to hang out here. Well that, and many of these guys are older and have some life experience that we have in common. That in itself usually helps take the edge off because we don't have anything to prove anymore.

I haven't been around long enough to know how Wills does, but you are right, that approach is funny and more than that, it is INFORMATIVE. I appreciate it and I looked at the reference sites he posted.

I have SPG lube and a brick of White Lightening that I got when I bought a Browning BPCR from a fellow in Texas. I am still using some Emmerett's I made up a year ago and have not tried the other lubes, but I'll do that and let ya'll know about them. I can tell you now that BOTH of them smell like bees wax to me and I have absolutely no doubt that the SPG has a lot of it in the formula.

Frankly, if either one of them is satisfactory, I'll just use them because I'm old and retarded now and I can afford to buy a little bullet lube. I don't do much, but I am TRYING to learn this BPCR business just for fun. It's about all this old fart can manage to do anymore except come here and chat with you boys. Ya'll have no idea how much I enjoy being able to do that and be a part of this group.

Boz330
03-24-2007, 08:24 AM
BP same here. I just wish that I had discovered this stuff back when I could still see worth a damn.
Bull Shops lube looks like it has potential but I go the first batch back in Nov and haven't had a chance to try it in hot weather yet. I was really impressed with it in my 38-55 that I used this last deer season. There was a noticeable improvement in group size, but that was only at 100yds. I'm not opposed to trying my own stuff though if it works. It is a character flaw that I just have to try to do everything for myself. As I get older though I am less inclined to do some stuff like working on my own vehicles, have trouble finding the engine.

Bob

Black Prince
03-24-2007, 09:42 AM
I have a Sharps (Taylor/Armi Sports replica) 45-70 and a Browning BPCR 40-65. I have toyed with getting a 38-55, but all I know about them is that the people I know that shoot NRA rules matches where they have to knock down the steel chickens, pigs, turkeys and rams say that the 38-55 will not take the ram down with any consistency even when it makes a good hit because it does not have sufficient energy.

What has been your experience with your rifle? What kind of rifle do you have and who made it? I'm looking at the Uberti highwalls and thinking I need one in 38-55. My idea is to use it to shoot the chickens and the pigs and then switch to one of the heavier cartridges for the turkeys and the rams. Do you think the 38-55 cartridge loaded with a heavy bullet would suffice for that purpose?

longbow
03-24-2007, 09:59 AM
Just a short comment to add.

I used to shoot quite a bit of black powder - both muzzleloader and .45-70 cartridge - and used Valvoline PB wheelbearing grease.

I know this seems to defy the no petroleum rule but I used to shoot all day without cleaning. This wasn't formal target shooting competition but the guns always seemed to be competitive both for plinking and for shooting paper, gongs etc.

The muzzle loader was always cleaned with hot water but I never had trouble pushing the first patch down to start pumping and in the Marlin 1895 I pushed a patch through and got soft black mud on it then carried on as usual with solvents and patches.

While I can't say that this would produce the match accuracy some of you are looking for it did keep the fouling soft without "crusty" build up.

The bad part - I wiped it on by hand because it is a soft wheelbearing grease. Maybe it would be worth trying mixed with beeswax, paraffin or some other thickener.

Just a thought.

Boz330
03-24-2007, 10:06 AM
The 38-55 is a C-Sharps 75 with a 15 twist barrel and it shoots the Lyman 330gr bullet very well. My other gun is a C-Sharps Hiwall in 40-65 with an 18 twist. I haven't been able to get it to shoot anything heavier than the 350gr RCBS boolit. The club that I shoot the most with, we only have to clang the targets since they are hanging by chains.
I haven't had any trouble with the 40-65 taking down the Rams even with a low hit. I have seen several people shoot the 38-55s in competition and they weren't having any problems, but I have heard that with a head wind it can be a problem. Pretty much depends on the weight of the bullet and the twist. I haven't shot that many regulation matches though.
It looks like you guys had a good time down there in MS. Were in the state was that match held. It might be something to look at next year.

Bob

SharpsShooter
03-24-2007, 10:20 AM
10 shots in under 5 minutes....group was a ragged hole that measured 1.59" at 100yds. 3" groups at 300yds. Hot dry conditions or cold...it works. No blow tube...no wiping...no problem. NASA is the stuff you guys keep dreaming about.

Oh yeah, cleanup takes just a couple patches and is a snap.....................


SS

waksupi
03-24-2007, 10:42 AM
10 shots in under 5 minutes....group was a ragged hole that measured 1.59" at 100yds. 3" groups at 300yds. Hot dry conditions or cold...it works. No blow tube...no wiping...no problem. NASA is the stuff you guys keep dreaming about.

Oh yeah, cleanup takes just a couple patches and is a snap.....................


SS


Which lube are you referring to?

SharpsShooter
03-24-2007, 11:28 AM
Which lube are you referring to?

NASA, Bullshops creation.

SS

Kenny Wasserburger
03-24-2007, 04:43 PM
Read the tests by SS, on NASA lube.


Now dont anyone get in a dither or ticked off and thats not my intention to start some sort of Peeing contest. And that is not my intent of this post.

Testing in RH's of 50% is not a lube test. With that kind of humidity any and I mean any lube will work. Sorry to me thats just not a real test of the lube. To me a real test of lube is RH's of less then 15% say as low as 7% ? thats dry! and if the air temp is over 90's you in trouble period.

As Dale53 mention, and I can confirm at Phoenix last week EVERY ONE Was wiping between shots with a soulution of water and water soluble oil. No lube will hold up to 7% humidity and 94 to 98 deg temps. The barrels get so hot that no moisture will be able to mix with the fouling it just cakes to the consistancy of cement. Wiping is the only consistant way to go no mater the temp or Humidity as Dale mentioned.

Cranking off 18-20 shots in less then 30 mins at long range in those temps is torture in the extreme!

I will keep looking for reference to this lube in Raton Nationals finals, as mentioned in the web site.:coffee:

I personally know all of the top ten Creedmoor shooters at Raton this year not a single one is using this lube, that does not mean it wont work. But its not listed? at least 5 of the top 10 were using Dan T's White Lighting lube. At this level of competition only the best lube or components will pass the muster and make it to the nationals Top ten list.

2 years ago at Raton I wiped between shots due to the higher temps, I used the Wyoming bore Dawgs of Jim Terry's and a dry patch behind the bore dawg. This past year in 2006 I just blow tubed between shots. The lube gets a real work out with a load that dumps 106 plus grains of powder down the barrel with each shot. As many of you know i shoot a 45-110 in long range, this cartridge will most certainly put to the test any lube made. I have tried over a dozen lubes the past few years in testing, all work as long as the humidity was over 30% every single one. SPG, Black Magic, DGL, Dick Hanson's lube, Several home made lubes of varrious shooters, Montana lube, Lee Shavers BP Moly. Every single one of these lubes failed at less then 20% humidity in the 45-110, most hung in with the 45-70 till down to 15% humidity. I kept a hydrometer for many years and lots of folks know how nuts I am bout keeping records.


Most of the lube's mentioned in this tread, and the shooters who are swearing by them live in much more humid areas then Eastern Wyoming or Raton. With avg rain fall of less then 13 inches its dry here most of the time, I believe the lubes all mentioned do work well in your areas, so please dont think I am casting doubts on your honesty. I do think that if you tested your lubes under some of the conditions we find here in Wyoming or Northern New Mexico you may find your Vonderbar lubes to let you down in a big way.

What i would like to see is some test data on this lube at say 12-18% humidity and say air temps in the 80's (often the case at Raton and often drier!).

So just lets say I need to be shown before I would give up on White Lighting Lube. I watched some of the best world class long range shooters foul out at Raton in the world Creedmoor match in 2004 ( me included) one shooter was blow tubing and using a 45-110 and took top score in the teams events and the rest of us fouled out and went to wiping. That shooter Was Jim Terry and the lube was White Lighting lube. I came home got 2 lbs of the stuff and boiled out my lube sizers and have never looked back.

Kenny Wasserburger

Bullshop
03-24-2007, 05:08 PM
KW
But dont it make ya qurious enough to wanna try some?
I understand that if your not seeing BP products advertized in the reguler places and not being used by the reguler croud you reguler fellas dont pay much attention. No matter! I dont advertize in those places because I just dont need to. If I try to generate more business than I have now I couldnt keep up with orders. The only place you will see nasa lube advertized is right here. This is my syber home and all I have time for besides work, which is making boolits and lube.
If ya dont try it I prolly wont notice but if your the kind of fella that keeps an open mind about things you cant deny you may be missing out on something. But if your the sheep type that only follows the flock you wont never find out.
No offence was taken from your post, in fact I agree and no offence was ment by mine.
BIC/BS

montana_charlie
03-24-2007, 07:46 PM
I personally know all of the top ten Creedmoor shooters at Raton this year not a single one is using this lube, that does not mean it wont work. But its not listed?
It may not have existed when Raton was held.

It was less than a year ago that Bullshop developed his NASA lube, and made generously-sized samples available to members of this forum.
And, even if it was in existence at the time of Raton, those shooters would not have known of it's existence unless they were members here.

If you hadn't joined up last December, you would still be unaware of it's existence.

So, unless you introduce it to those top ten Creedmoor shooters at Raton whom you know personally, it is likely that nobody at Raton will EVER know that NASA lube is available...or how it compares to whatever they use, now.



Back to the thread...
I mentioned in an earlier post that I had posed a question for DanT, hoping he would comment on 'wax'. Well, he has...twice.

His first comment was, "I've tried just about any wax you can think of including Bayberry, Japan, Carnauba, etc., Ad infinitum Ad nauseam. Wax is not important so don't spin your wheels."

When somebody asked for a clarification (of that statement) his reply was, "Based on extensive testing; any wax is a fouling control impediment. Take any wax you like and fill your GG's with it and try to shoot match quality groups, no es possibla."

So there you have it, Gents, from one of the premier 'lube engineers' in BPCR.

Just don't ask me to interpret the comments...
CM

Kenny Wasserburger
03-24-2007, 09:59 PM
Well,

Charlie your right of course I would of never known of this lube if it were not for this board. Thus is why I am trying to learn more. So far all the testing has been done in the wet east or there abouts. 50% humidity is no test of bullet lube in the BPCR.

As me being one of the sheep, haha I shoot a 45-110, and have done well with the cartridge that kicks too hard and fouls to badly to be competitive in a match, not one of the many 45-90 crowd so I dont think I fit in the sheep class.

What I am asking is testing under Real tough conditions low humidity under 15% and say 80 plus degrees. I sure would be intrested in that.


Kenny W.

SharpsShooter
03-25-2007, 10:41 AM
As I recall, the firing of 10 shots in less than 5 minutes generated substantial heat that afternoon and the non-usage of a blow tube or wiping stick was intended to simulate the dry conditions that KW is victimized by. Hot barrels from high rates of fire will rob moisture from most lubes and you will foul out due to lube failure. Now it would take a math wiz to sort out whose conditions created the hottest barrel in this case, but I am going to guess that 10 shots in 5 minutes without stopping would generate more heat than the casual rate of 18 in 30 minutes. Anyway, the point is that NASA lube was still so moist that the barrel was clean with a single patch.. No hard fouling, nada, zip, zero. The lube star on the muzzle was soft and could be wiped off with a patch. Lots of heat, no failure, no problem. Oh, and it produced a nice rapid fire group too.


SS

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r255/SharpsShooter_photos/10shot4570GroupNASA.jpg

Kenny Wasserburger
03-25-2007, 12:18 PM
SS,

you stated the Humidity at this test was 50%? Correct? and what was the ambient air Temp at this time? This is NO test of lube IMO, sorry. Your own statement that the lube star was soft proves this. With that Much RH in the air almost any lube will work. With out a blow tube, I have had RH's here on the rare occasion of about 45-50% you don't need to blow as the humidity is high enough to hydrate the fouling with out any other effort. HOT you prob got, DRY? nope.

With a 45-70 I can load and shoot just as fast As possible Only time I can foul that rifle out with any of 10 or so different lubes, that I have personally tested, is when air temps are over 85 and the humidity is below 15% most failed at 6 or 7% all lubes failed.

Some of the worst conditions I have ever shot in are Phoenix and here in Wyoming Or Raton. Phoenix this past week ago was 93 deg air temp, RH was around 6-7% No lube will pass the muster in this type of condition Period just blowing you can never get any moisture into the lube or the barrel it just gets too hot. The barrel screws got so hot they would burn your hand if you touched them. The very worst conditions I have shot in ever where on my own range, 106 degs RH of 6% everyone fouled only wiping between shots worked. This was at a Creedmoor match I held in 2005.

One shooter did use a wet towel from a ice chest to cool down his barrel and he actually could get off his record shots with just a blow tube and then recool the barrel after each string. We have all tried this barrel cooler method, it does work but you do have to have extra equipment and you drench the gun.


One of the worst tools to torture test any BP lube is the 45-110, this cartridge develops right at 3 times the chamber pressure a standard 45-70 BP load does, based on some testing done by MLV some years back with Dr Kieth Ohler's equipment.

I am not saying that this NASA lube wont work, what I have asked for is a real test of the lubes abilities in DRY Hot Conditions.[smilie=1:

I keep pretty good records, over the years, some real interesting trends came out, My 45-110 would shoot very good groups and do well if I had a spring match often times the temps where on the cool side 40's to 50's Humidity was often 35-40% also. Quite high for Wyoming on avg but often the case in spring. So I would think that this load would be just the ticket for Raton.

Come the fall at Raton I would sometimes do well and other times foul out. I kept record of the good performances and the bad ones. The things that jumped out of my record keeping was two fold, did well at Raton if cool and humid, like after one of the big Thunder boomers had came though the night before. I would do well early in the morning at 800 and even 900, often by late afternoon it would be hot85 or so degs and Humidity had burned off to less then 30%. My Scores at 1000 often were very poor.

Learned a lot these past years about lubes and how well they work, much from Dan T and others, and what it takes to work well. When I switched to White Lighting was after a lot of seeing how well it worked for other shooters. Kick my self for not going to it a year earlier. The past 2 years my 1000 yard scores have not been beat by any other scope shooter at Raton, and only one or two of the top Iron sight shooters.

Does this NASA lube has any Bee's Wax in it? then it a less then optimum lube from what I have learned and seen this past 2 years.

Kenny Wasserburger

SS
PS nice group at 100 yards a touch over 1.5 MOA?

All the lubes I have ever used-Tested will shoot that well at 100, Which is no test in my opinion, Try 300 or even 600 yards.

My own personal testing protocol is at 200 first then take the best loads at 200 and run em at 600 and 800 for long range. Often groups at 200 wont tell me a bit of difference in a load only at 600 does one see much difference. Things like a tendencey for some vertical stringing shows up at the longer distances. Fouling control-lube does pay a part at these ranges.

Lastly one other thing that contributes to the fouling's ability to hydrate is the quality of the powder, A very big deal. Goex Express is one such powder as is Swiss.


Bullshop, If NASA lube has NO Bee's Wax in it or say less then 25%, then I would be delighted to try some for testing and be glad to pay Shipping.

The mail addy is:

817 Glacier Drive
Gillette, WY 82718

Kenny Wasserburger

Black Prince
03-25-2007, 12:57 PM
Boz

To shoot the South Mississippi event, you must be a member of the Church of the Painful Truth chat site. They are a bunch of old farts over there and you have to pass muster to get in because the forum is closed. When you fill out the reason you want in, tell them that I'll vouch for you. No one gets in that we don't know because we have had some very destructive individuals there , all of whom have been thrown out, and now only people we know can get in. Pat Marlin is also a member over there as are Two Trees and Redd Foxy.

This year the shoot was held at a hunting camp near Richton, but next year it will be held at a hunting camp near Tylertown, MS. Both camps are located on rivers and camping space is available as is water and even shower facilities. Mostly they go for the food and fellowship and there are only about a half dozen serious shooters, but it is a lot of fun.

Looks like I moan hafta try me summa that Bullshop stuff.

Boz330
03-26-2007, 10:02 AM
Well I've sure enough learned many things the painful way, might even qualify for a PHD in that method. Plus at 60 I think that I can qualify as an old fart, or at least that is what my lesser experienced friends tell me (be 61 on Friday). Time flys when your having fun.
I've got some NASA lube, still have to try it in the heat. I need to get to the range some day to try out some new bullets and some load variations, but this is my crunch time of year and work gets in the way. Might not have to worry about that much longer though, the FAA is doing there level best to legislate many of us out of business.
My best shootin buddy just retired from Duke Energy and he calls me a couple times a week to let me know that he is headed to the range to practice. Thats all he needs, he usually kicks my butt anyway. I used to have a chance when he would test new loads on match day but now he does that during the week and brings the good stuff to the match.

Bob

omgb
03-27-2007, 01:37 AM
I've got to agree with KWs experience in hot dry weather. I can use just about any lube until summer. Then the problems start. My 45-90 has a 34" barrel and the last 3 inches of that tube will foul like crazy when the heat goes up and the humidity goes down. I'm using WL right now and have been for three years. So far, it's the best I've tried. For a while, I had the bright idea of using a lube based on Mobil 1 and lanolin. The idea was that I would melt the lanolin and mix it with a small amount of water. I used some shaved Ivory soap to help emulsify the mess. I added some Mobil 1 and let it gel. It was too soft of course so I added some bee's wax. Now it worked great. I thought I had the cat's meow. Boy howdy did that stuff keep powder fouling soft. Then came August and disaster. The fouling came back. So, I used a blow tube, shot the rest of this lube in my Zouave and went back to WL. Then, since I was just shooting for me and not in comp, I went to duplex loads. You can still foul out with Dp loads but it's harder to do.

Any way, I've not tried NASA lube so I can't speak for or against it. I was just offering my $.02 for entertainment purposes.

DeanoBeanCounter
04-01-2007, 10:10 PM
I vote that this thread be a sticky.