Lead problem- too much!!!

[evan price]

So I was out and about looking for stuff when I stopped in a place I had stopped many times before. This time I knew who the competition was.

I asked to buy some lead from them. They agreed my price was fair. They would not sell me a thousand pounds...they said that I would have to start taking ALL their range lead. He said they get 3-4 tons a month. Every month. ALL of it from now on.

For adjusted market price, right now $.40/pound.

LOTS of jacketed. I'd make that 40 cents a pound back up on the copper alone.

But I've got no way to deal with that much lead every month. Smelting, hauling, storing, etc. plus the up-front investment in the lead itself.

Sometimes I am too successful...Ideas?:coffee:

[birdadly]

Sounds like an interesting and fun problem to have... hmmm... what the heck would I do with that problem... I have to think about it! I'm intrigued!! -Brad

[slim1836]

Sounds like a new business startup to me.

Seperate the lead from the brass and sell to scrap yards or members on this site.

Slim

[dnotarianni]

Sounds like a part time job. How you going to haul all that lead?
Dave

[southpaw]

Maybe if there are enough people that are close enough you could split it to make it easier. If there were 6-8 people close enough that would be about 1000 pounds each a month. Where abouts in Ohio are you?

Jerry Jr.

[geargnasher]

Sounds like it's time to build a 500-lb, wood-fired smelter and find a good helper on the weekends. You can make your money back and then some on the copper jackets so you won't be out anything but your time and just stockpile the lead ingots for later and sell/trade them as you need to and have time. I'm not sure where you'd find a market that large that was profitable, but lead is only going to get more valuble. You could do it for a year and pass it on to someone else if you got tired of it, and you'd have about $75,000 worth of stash at todays purchase prices to go toward your retirement.

Gear

[KohlerK91]

Maybe if there are enough people that are close enough you could split it to make it easier. If there were 6-8 people close enough that would be about 1000 pounds each a month. Where abouts in Ohio are you?

Jerry Jr.

Im in!!!!!!!!

[geargnasher]

I have a feeling this could go like problem solving in Walkabout Creek: Just tell Wally. Wally tells everyone else about the problem, get it out in the open, and no more problem! Just post on Castboolits, you'll find just how many members from Ohio there are interested in solving your "Problem"!

Gear

[groovy mike]

If you were in NY I'd happily take a thousand pounds!

[waynem34]

If you could manage to get the first months lead AND smelt and go from there it would snow ball into alot of work.

[KYCaster]

Is that .40/lb. loaded on your truck or do you have to dig it out of the backstop?

BIG difference.

Jerry

[bumpo628]

Here are the numbers:
$2400 to $3200 per month
@ two 55 gallon drums worth of lead to store/sell per month

If the copper pays for the lead, then you will probably need to process everything as it comes in. Then you just need to worry about storage or selling the lead. I'm sure we could all help you out with a chunk of that. With things the way they are it's good to have another consistent source of lead.

[Jal5]

Sounds like a part time business to me. Keep us informed of what you decide to do!

Joe

[dbarnhart]

My $.02 worth: I think you need to outsource as much of the actual work as possible even if it means that your profit is less. Handling 6000-8000 pounds of lead per month every month will wear your body out fast. Just boxing up and shipping the ingots will be strenuous. You are talking about approximately 120 fifty-pound USPS boxes of ingots per month.

[GLL]

I have never sold copper jackets at the scrap yard. What price to they bring contaminated with a little lead mixed in?

KYcaster has a important question ! Do you have to dig the range lead out of the berm?

You may need to invest in a bobtail dump truck, forklift, and if you plan to make ingots that 500-pound smelter and molds geargnasher mentioned ! A full-time massage therapist will also be needed for your back ! :)

Jerry

[cf_coder]

I would like to know this as well. I've been collecting and keeping the jackets from my range scrap smelts. I try to get all the lead out, but there is invariably some stuck to the jacket or left around the edges...

[Philngruvy]

Is this range lead coming from an indoor range or an outdoor range? What type of backstops? Without this info, there is room for very much guesswork.

[dragon813gt]

The jackets should bring #2 copper price. That's what I've gotten at the yard I use.


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[imashooter2]

If there isn't a contract with performance penaties attached, and if you have a place to store a 12 - 16000 pound pile of scrap, agree to their terms. Take it for two months, then tell them you've decided you can't handle the waste anymore. They got their scrap gone for two months at better than scrap yard prices and you have a 6 month or so supply of ore that you can smelt at your leisure. Everybody wins.

[runfiverun]

sell it at cost as is.
.40 a lb for range scrap plus shipping,with you picking out some of the jackets and recycling them.
would most likely sell just fine.
put out some feelers on the swapin and selling board.
make it clear it's just range scrap dumped in a box for say 45-50 cents a lb weighed out to 60 lbs and add 13 bucks shipping.
you could smelt what you could handle and get a bit more for the ingots as you got them done.
there's also the e-bay option.
choosing to mail packages on only a couple of days during the week,etc.
and possibly providing a part time job to a neighbor hood kid.

if you have to clean it out yourself does change things.

[evan price]

It's an indoor range that uses a steel snare type trap. NO sand or rubber or anything else. The range staff would clean the traps into 5-gallon buckets I would need to provide. I'd load it in my truck from there.

I already have a 5000-lb rated propane towmotor, a country address with few neighbors, a largish 2.5 car detached garage (full of junque right now) and several trucks including a Ford F-350 Diesel dually retired U-haul box truck.

Location is less than an hour away.

When I smelt the backstop lead I get now from another source, I can flux the smelt well and wind up with nearly all the lead out of the jackets. There's only a thin film in there like sweated copper pipe scrap. I get paid #2 copper for the jackets I bring in now (same as burnt wire or soldered pipe.) Since the steel backplate smashes the bullets up nicely I doubt there will be a lot of intact bullets to worry about.

I also have a full time job working third shift and the father of two with a busy extracurricular schedule.

I enquired with a good friend about purchasing his 100# propane tanks. I'd need a real bottom-pour smelter I think. I'd hate to ladle-pour 4000# of ingots.

I am making plans to make an ingot mold out of stacked angle irons that will fit inside the small flat rate box. I figure I can get 20# in a small FRB easily even with extra packing.

I had at one time seriously considered going into business as a bullet caster and had a line on a Magma setup. But the ITAR problems made me quit that idea.

[bjeffv]

If u could get a buddy in on it and split the costs and time u would easily have a little side income weekend work. Build three bottom pour 100 pound propane tank smelters, run two at a time, and the third is back up.

Good luck.

[AndyC]

The jackets should bring #2 copper price. That's what I've gotten at the yard I use.
Roger and I got that as well, yep.


I'd need a real bottom-pour smelter I think. I'd hate to ladle-pour 4000# of ingots.
Too bloody true! Or smelting down 45lbs or so at a time in a li'l dutch-oven, either - go more semi-industrial.

[mac1911]

man you guys are lucky, aint no scrap yard taking jackets around heres. Heck you lucky to get the whopping scarp metal price of 210/ton and your gonna need a ton or better to get that price.

[220swiftfn]

Evan- Definately keep us "in the loop" on this..... I'm sure that there's enough people looking that you wouldn't have to sit on too much surplus for very long.... (As stated above, the more you put into it, the more you can charge, or you can just put the raw into shipping boxes for a small markup and make out well.) I remember seeing a HUGE bottom pour smelter somewhere on the site that looked like it would handle somewhere around 1000 lbs. Something like that and a bunch of molds would go a long way towards making it "do-able".


Dan

[letsmeltlead2693]

There is no such thing as having too much lead. Even if you had 10tons of lead, that is not too much.

[1bluehorse]

There is no such thing as having too much lead. Even if you had 10tons of lead, that is not too much.

Amen to that brother.....I like the post above that said 8 tons was a 6 month supply......:cbpour: that's about 439,000 250gr. bullets....:Fire:

[The10mmKid]

Hey Evan, I sent you a PM.

'da Kid

[imashooter2]

Amen to that brother.....I like the post above that said 8 tons was a 6 month supply......:cbpour: that's about 439,000 250gr. bullets....:Fire:

OK, so perhaps I understated it a little. [smilie=1:

[jlala504]

If you end up doing this I would probably buy raw lead from you if you wanted to package and ship it.

[35isit]

It may be blasphemus on here. Talk to shotgunners in your area. If they make their own shot they may have an interest in buying it raw or in ingots.

[1bluehorse]

There's folks on here that sell "mined" lead for a buck a pound shipped so some rough figures would indicate 4 ton a month using those figures would net you around $6500.00 (after shipping cost) per 60lb box. (135 approx). I notice that the lead sold here and other places at or near this price don't usually last long..man, that would be a lot of work though. I don't think you would be very popular with the local mail handlers either. ;) From a purely selfish perspective I'd like to see you undertake this mission......I'd buy from you. Probably a box a month.....

[Roundgunner]

Man I would love that, I need a part time business. I will buy from you too, after I get some part time work.

[wgr]

get it sell it to members here like a 1000lb at a time they smelt it keep the lead sell the jackets and send you the check.dont know were in ohio you are but im in southern indiana and would consider 1 maybe 2ooo lb

[merlin101]

Might be time for a road trip!

[Suo Gan]

So I was out and about looking for stuff when I stopped in a place I had stopped many times before. This time I knew who the competition was.

I asked to buy some lead from them. They agreed my price was fair. They would not sell me a thousand pounds...they said that I would have to start taking ALL their range lead. He said they get 3-4 tons a month. Every month. ALL of it from now on.

For adjusted market price, right now $.40/pound.

LOTS of jacketed. I'd make that 40 cents a pound back up on the copper alone.

But I've got no way to deal with that much lead every month. Smelting, hauling, storing, etc. plus the up-front investment in the lead itself.

Sometimes I am too successful...Ideas?:coffee:

I doubt that they are getting that much a month. But just for the sake of argumnt you could start a business, you can write off $10k for a startup biz, $5k the first year and the rest is amortized. Keep track of your expenses and write it off, write off the amount of property, write off your mileage, write off your new computer, etc. etc. Like you said the copper will probably just about cover your lead cost. The only problem for volume like that are the FMJ's. I guess a good lid on the pot would cure that.

If in fact it is 3,000 a month that is going to be at least $2,000 in your pocket. I have a pot that can do 150 pounds at a time. I can do 6 pots before I am ready to quit. If you had a large bottom pour unit, you could do a thousand or fifteen hundred pounds in 6 or 7 hours fairly easily. Perhaps you could recruit a nephew to be a gopher.

Do not let the folks who never want to try anything talk you out of things. BUT you need to be realistic. The best business plan is to get strapped to something so that you have to make it work or you will starve!

I say go for it. You do what is right for YOU. Lots of folks out there want to piggyback on others good ideas and hard work. You do not want to be the cheapest or the most expensive. This could really be something for you.

[dbarnhart]

Here's maybe the 64 thousand dollar question to think about: At the price you are paying can you turn right around and sell it - doing nothing to it - and make a profit?

[Texantothecore]

I would jump on this as this looks like a real opportunity to make some money and eat some of your profit in the form of cheap lead. If I remember correctly, smelted down, one ton of lead will be about 24 large coffee cans full. It is not going to be a slag pile like you see in large mining operations.

A large melting pot will be helpful and you might be able to design a continuous flow pot that might have a tilted area on top that would do the actual melt with a short heated tilted ramp to get the lead into a an ingot mold as it melts rather than trying to empty a big bottom pour pot.

you probably could put out two product lines:

1. Raw in unsmelted form, cheap
2. Smelted and tested for hardness. Anyone who is going to be buying lead will be familiar with the components given a particular bhn.

Your initial market is probably on this board. There are a lot of people who are looking for lead because in their area "The Wheel Weight Fairy has been shot dead".

You may also find that after you get started others will come to you with more opportunities to clear out their ranges and you are off and running.

I worked for a guy that started his business in his basement with a single plastics extrusion machine (maybe 3 ft wide, 3 foot long, and 5 feet high) making IUDs for India. He got the machine through an ad in the back of a Popular Mechanics. He now owns a huge plastic extrusion firm that has done contracts for major cereal manufacturers making such trivial items as those little race cars that used to come in the cereal box. He now owns many factories and is a millionaire. He never dreamed that he would be where he is now, it was originally just a method of making a bit more money and sort of blew up without a whole lot of effort.

The "initial market problem" for a new business is a huge one to solve but you already have this one in the bag. Prospects are good, go for it.

[Texantothecore]

You may wish to take a look at this thread as it is a smelting furnace that can really melt lead fast. Basically, a wood fired blast furnace.

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=144205

[ddixie884]

I own a small business, trucking. I used to work for large corporations, construction. I encourage you to go into this business, if the numbers are there........

[lwknight]

Man oh man , what fun it could be!

[winchester85]

copper price for jackets?

not around here. first thing they did was put a magnet in the bucket. i never know how many steel jackets there were. all i get is scrap lead price for jackets.

[lwknight]

copper price for jackets?

not around here. first thing they did was put a magnet in the bucket. i never know how many steel jackets there were. all i get is scrap lead price for jackets.

I hear that a lot and have thought about a symbiotic relationship where I could receive the scrap jackets and sell them for #2 copper prices and split the gain.

Maybe I would just buy them and resell them. Hmm... an idea anyway.

[nanuk]

quit your day job and go into business for yourself???

[onesonek]

sell it at cost as is.
.40 a lb for range scrap plus shipping,with you picking out some of the jackets and recycling them.
would most likely sell just fine.
put out some feelers on the swapin and selling board.
make it clear it's just range scrap dumped in a box for say 45-50 cents a lb weighed out to 60 lbs and add 13 bucks shipping.
you could smelt what you could handle and get a bit more for the ingots as you got them done.
there's also the e-bay option.
choosing to mail packages on only a couple of days during the week,etc.
and possibly providing a part time job to a neighbor hood kid.

if you have to clean it out yourself does change things.

My thoughts as well !

[bearcove]

To get the copper price it would need to be clean and sorted most places. I wouldn't figure more than a dollar a pound for jackets, they are dirty. magnetic sort to remove steel. The better you sort the higher the price.

[evan price]

I'm not gonna quit my day job. But, I think thanks to friends indeed, I can handle this influx of Galena! There will be updates.