Rifle Range Growing Pains, Anyy advice?

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

Our club is growing fairly rapidly -near 500 members, up from under 100, 5 years ago.
We've been debating what to do as there are several issues / options.
We currently have 8 rifle shooting lines to 400 yards,(under cover) 3 pistol bays, one archery bay and a shotgun / skeet area. First thought was to add more rifle lines. The problem is, the new shooting stations would take up what little parking area there is now. It would also be separate from the other lines, so range control would be an issue, for target changes and such.
Another option is to go to a limited membership and leave the facility as it is. There is problems with that as well, such as limiting the income, which at present wouldn't be an issue but in the future it may be.

I guess, I was just wandering if any one else's club / range has had growing pains and what you did to work it out. Another option might be to raise the membership fees to where it weeds out the less serious people, but then you always run the risk of ending up with the "money bags" taking over everything and us poor folks left with no where to shoot.
Thoughts appreciated.

[shooterg]

Limit the membership AND raise rates slightly, bank $$ until you can get more real estate.

Levels of membership - Monday-Friday members cheaper(us retired folks) , higher fee for 7 day members ?

Check guests in, we limit guests to 2 trips before joining.

Even with a membership limit, competitions are generally still open to the public, so you still get some revenue from non-members.

[rockrat]

Same here, we had to limit the membership numbers and with rising property taxes, we had to raise membership rates.
Also, we instituted and "initiation fee" ($100), as we had number of member that would "forget" to pay their dues and would wait until the third or fourth quarter to pay dues at a reduced rate.
Now, if the member hasn't paid within 30 days of due date, their membership is cancelled and they have to pay the "initiation fee" all over again. We lost about 50 members, but our finances improved.
We have 10 outdoor rifle benches (covered) , multiple pistol berms, two trap/skeet fields, 5-stand and a seperate indoor range. You do get alot of "bang" for your buck (pun intended:))

[Ford SD]

One of the things My club had done
22rf only range 100y
hand gun/ pistol / shotgun 50yds (leaver action in pistol cal ok & sighting in ok)
rifle to 100 yds
long range rifle 200/300yds

and one other 125yds range for mixed use matches every Sat etc


So if you had one more 100 yd range you could use the 400yds range less
as if you are sighting rifles or just shooting for fun 22rf etc 100 yds is on

it takes a lot less time to walk 100 yds and change targets than if you have 1-2 shooting at 400 and have to change targets and all the other people are shooting at 100 and have to wait

Space is allways a problem

[Janoosh]

Listen to RockRat. He is right on target. Analyze all costs. Limit guests to certain days (they may be new members), develop a PLAN and stick to it. We try to be "blue collar", but will allow Dr.'s and liars. No changing horses in mid-stream. Overlap your ranges if it is possible. Trap, skeet, 5-stand ALL can be from one area. Pistol, pistol caliber carbine, muzzle loader can be combined. Oh...... Chase the late payers! Our club of 600 brought in $8,000 at $100 each, chasing "late payers". Be sportsmen, make offers, but to use the club,... "You gotta pay your dues".

[C.F.Plinker]

If you add the rifle lanes would they be far enough apart that they could operate independently?

Our dues are due by the middle of February. The lock on the gates to the range and to the rifle/pistol area are changed during the first week of March. The members that paid up are given the new combination in the newsletter that is sent at the end of February. Prior to using a combination lock, the new keys were mailed out with the membership badges. All members are required to wear their badge while on the range. If you don't have a badge you can be challenged by any member and asked to leave.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

Here's a bad over head shot of the range in current condition.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/James64/range2.jpg

The road visible would bisect the 2 rifle ranges, current covered line is on the right between the road and the treeline. New line would be on the left of the road between the road and the berm.
Left of the berm is the shotgun area. Pistol bays and archery area on far left. To the right is private property, the other 3 sides are forest service and DNCR (state) land
The proposed new rifle line would be limited to 200 yards, not enough room for another berm to separate the 2 lines.
We are on a lease from the state DNRC for this land.We are allowed to change/arrange/build as needed. Possibility does exist to acquire more land to the left in this photo. Financially, we are solvent, there is enough money to run the place & pay all expenses for 2 years if there was no income.
We have some of the ideas posted above in place already as guests are limited to 2 visits/year before membership is expected, all competitions & events are open to everyone even non members, we require badges be worn, have the combo lock that get change every year and combo is mailed out with your paid membership.
One of our "problems" as I see it, is a lot of the original old timers who had been spoiled over the years are not liking the amount of current use. Times change, they don't like it. I say get used to it. I remember the days when I could spend all day out there mid week and have the whole place to myself. Yeah, it was nice and all, but that just doesn't happen anymore unless you brave the nastiest weather. That's OK though, the range is for all members.
Some good ideas so far, looking forward to more

[Suo Gan]

One of our "problems" as I see it, is a lot of the original old timers who had been spoiled over the years are not liking the amount of current use. Times change, they don't like it.


That looks to be a wonderful club. I have spent some time in Montana. I got to be honest, I think God gifted Montana with as many snobs per acre as any yuppy McMansion suburb in LA. I never met someone that knew everything until I met my first 'native bitterooter'. I guess if they thought the place was heaven, and did not want folks comin in and messin it up, why in the world were they selling their ranches that were bought for a buck an acre a hundred years ago for millions? Kinda like the guy with one finger in the vice and another hand on the lever cranking it and he is saying "OUCH!!" Stop cranking the vice dummy! I guess if they weren't so greedy it would still be untainted. :)

I say enjoy it and the folks who attend it and let the windbags do what they do best and pay them no mind.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

It is a wonderful club and most folks are really nice.
We've been NRA inspected and deemed the safest facility in Montana. They had NO suggestions for improvements:grin:

[Blacksmith]

Our club raised the dues but the full ammount of the increase was dedicated to the land acquision fund so we are building a seperate pot of money for future expansion or even a move if we had to.

Some clubs have mandentory work days or logged volunteer hours for members. Some clubs give a discount for work time or you can pay higher dues if you don't work.

[wv109323]

You might consider having different levels of membership or designate range dates.
Red Card Members- Monday and Wednesday Day
Blue Club Members- Tuesday and Thursday
Green Card Members Weekends
ETC....Etc
Try to spread the range time out to where everyone has an opportunity to use existing facilities at full capacity.
There are few clubs with Growth problems.

[beagle]

That happened at our club. Trap, skeet and sporting clays thrived and got the large part of the money while us old poor, cheap, tight ragged bullet casters had to live with the leftovers. The doctors and lawyers took over and were arragant about it. All of us less fortunates had to bail on account of dues cost and this included charter members. So, al I can say is be careful and consider the membership or you'll lose some of your older folks that you need to keep./beagle



Another option might be to raise the membership fees to where it weeds out the less serious people, but then you always run the risk of ending up with the "money bags" taking over everything and us poor folks left with no where to shoot.
Thoughts appreciated.[/QUOTE]

[DCM]

+1 on the initiation fees.

If you are going to raise the dues I would suggest keeping them at the current level for Seniors 60+? and I am not a senior, but most are on a fixed income and guess who prolly spends the most time there when it is not busy anyways. I tend to see the same seniors at the range when I get a chance to "sneak" in some range time. I know at my local range some of them do MOST of the upkeep too.

BIG +1 on buying as much land as possible for so many reasons legal and sporting.

[waksupi]

Which range is that? Columbia Falls?

[hiram]

The club I belong to built a Pistol steel challenge range on the 50M running target range.

[C.F.Plinker]

Our club has dues at $265 per year. If you work one day at the range (cleaning berms, building targer frames, helping with hunter sight-in, or working the table at a gun show, etc.) you get a work bond for $100 off your dues. If you are 65 or older the dues are $165 per year.

One of the reasons for belonging to a private club is being able to use any of the range facilities (subject to availability of course) whenever you want to. I don't see where having M, W, F, or Tu, Th memberships would reduce the crowding on those days. It would still be just as crowded because the members signed up for those days would be sure to be there.

See where the lines are longest and put in more positions for that type of shooting. Your are growing and need to figrue out what distances are in shorter supply and build for that.

[runfiverun]

you do know you can get some funds from the nra to help with the facilities and stuff right?
our 22 range has 7 benches and berms at 25-50-75-100 and is covered.
this allows it to be used for sight in when needed and for levergun silhouette pistol caliber shoots also.
the rifle range is next to it and separated by a berm it has 50-100-200-300 yd berms you can shoot to the 50-100& 300 from all but two bench's across the face of the other berms.
the 200 is blocked to the two left benches.
and they are mostly used for 50-100 yd shooting.
this has a back and sides and a partial roof covering the front.
there is an open area to the right of that that is used for long range levergun shoots,and a lot of guys use that for shooting off sticks and for handguns.
it has berms at 50-100-150&200 yds with area behind it to the 300 yd berm.
the pistol berms are down and to the side of the 300 yd line.
the berm at 300 and the pistol range is actually into a mountain. but from right angles.
with a blank spot so there is no chance of a bullet flipping into an occupied area.
the pistol ranges have a covered area that splits two berms and isn't designed to be shot from.
we have two conex boxes for storage of targets and such for the shoots.
one is at the rifle area and one is at the pistol area and is the back wall for the pistol covered area.
thats why we can shoot at an angle from the other benches.
we don't have a 5 stand or trap area but one could be installed next to the pistol bays facing another 90* or 45 thats where everybody goes to just throw targets anyways.
it's a pretty good layout and has versatility and could easily be expanded for more rifle benches,more pistol bays,or whatever.

[DCM]

Forgot to mention we not only check in guests, EVERYBODY must sign in. We charge guests $10 every time and they MUST sign a waiver.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Having lost two fantastic ranges because of shotgunners, my advice is to listen to Beagle. I know I am going to ruffel some feathers, I will say it anyway. Shotgunners bread like rabbits, they are like bowlers, they like pot luck dinners, family gatherings and they spend fortunes on guns and gear. The rifle and pistol sections make more money than the shotgun side of the range but the shotgunners gain control of the funds thru shear numbers. They always end up as club president and on the board of directors. It sounds from what you have said that the shotgunners already have a toe hold. From my experience I predict they will be running the range in a few short years. For many years I belonged to a fantistic gun club in Brea, Ca. If you felt like shooting at three in the morning you could open the gate with your card key, turn on the flood lights and fire away. One day the club president who ,of course was a shotgunner, went to the man in charge of buiding and lands at Union Oil, the range was on there property. He asked for one hundred more gate cards. The man hit the ceiling. He closed the range. Since there were Union Oil executives who belonged to the range, they managed to get the range opened again. Of course with much different rules. I won't bore you with the changes he dictated. It didn't matter. The range was closed for good about a year later. We lost another beautiful range in Redlands, Ca. because the shotgunners ran the club and wouldn't agree to close the trap side, which was sending shot into an area a man wanted to build condos on. I Heard later we could have kept the rifle and pistol side if the board had agreed. The range closed and we now drive a hundred miles round trip to a range that can only be described as primitive. Don't get the impression from what I have said that I don't like or appreciate fine shotguns. I do. I just like rifles better.

[rockrat]

Wondered what happened to the Redlands range. Use to shoot trap there with Dad, when he lived in Redlands.

[waksupi]

The problem with raising prices in NW Montana, is we never got out of the Great Depression, and we are now in another.

[ilcop22]

Our club broke new ground in 08 or 09 when the village it used to reside in zoned it out of existance. At the new area (518 acres), our club used to have a very long (1,000 yards seems to short, probably just my perspective, though) rifle/pistol range that was initially divided into 6 separate ranges, full berms separating them. When we needed more ranges for practical rifle/idpa/etc., what our club did was divide the rifle range into bays using concrete dividers, thereby adding more ranges and breaking up the firing line. They're not very good at posting pics, so I don't have much of an example for you... But here's one pic, anyway.
http://aurorasc.org/images/phocagallery/IDPA_10-30-2010/thumbs/phoca_thumb_l_dsc_5441.jpg

[firefly1957]

No suggestions but I do wish you and your club luck and hope everything turns out right.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

Luckily, we do have a few fanatic shot-gunners but they are in the minority. They haven't been able to get a sporting clays shoot to catch hold for years.

Our range dues are very reasonable at $48/year single , $84 /family. We do charge an extra 25 bucks if you don't do something to help out, hell even coming to a meeting will get you out of the 25 bucks, people cant be bothered. Out of all the members we normally have 10-20 that show for monthly meetings. So far, the folks who come to the meetings are the ones with good insight and have maintained good control.

Waksupi, yeah, this is the range north of C-Falls.

Firefly1957, no luck needed :), simply looking for ideas what others have done in similar situations

[Boondocker]

I am a director and past officer at our club. We have 300 paying members limit, some non paying lifers after 20 yrs( no more life memberships accepted but we have senior members at reduced dues after 20. Dues are 75.00 a year and 1st yr 75.00 + 25.00 initiation. We have in house raffles that get members to the meetings of all kinds of hunting trinkets and ammo, plus a single gun raffle till its gone then another, the gun shops work with us and the winner can choose. We have 3 work days a year with 35 people picked to worked which they can trade off or get a bud to fill in. If that does not happen a 50.00 assessment is levied which must be paid before or on the next monthly meeting date or adios. You get a work day around every 2 years. 12 monthly club house cleanings around 2 hrs with 2 members and 1 director. I say keep your membership limited and controllable, have a director governed club with member input and watch having internal factions try shenanigans in the club. Plus keep everything on the up and up because range are becoming a dying breed. Plus alcohol doesn't mix.:coffee:

[Storydude]

What's a range?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=41308&stc=1&d=1330124099

[higgins]

One of the ranges I use has seen a growth spurt in the last few years. There was controversy over whether to limit membership, but the powers that be decided not to do so. It's OK to welcome new members, but what has failed to happen is to impress on the new members (and some others too) that membership is a privilege, and that they do not have the right to ignore posted range safety rules just because to do so would inconvenience them. Because so many new shooters took their instruction from TV instead of from an experienced friend or relative, they have no concept of general gun handling etiquette and safety, don't know how to operate the lid of the dumpster they pass on the way off the property, nor can they fathom such complex matters as don't shoot the target frames. I have never understood how someone can shoot from a bench and miss a 4'x8' board and hit the posts holding it up. You have to look no further than the furrows in the front edge of the shooting tables and the divots a few feet in front of the firing line to see why I avoid the range on weekends and holidays. My suggestion would be to somehow screen new members to make sure they are responsible sorts, make club expectations very clear by having them sign a contract of sorts, and if they don't live up to expectations give them one warning, then revoke their membership.

[btroj]

There is no good answer. No matter what you do a group of people will get angry and piss and moan.

If people are upset that it is difficult to find space to shoot then you can either limit membership, expand the shooting space, or listen to the guys complain. It is that simple.

I belong to a club that just finished building a 300 yard dedicated "plinking" range. This was to keep the peace with guys who don't want to shoot the various competitions. Our other ranges are usually tied up on most weekend for these competitions so the club gave them a range that will never have competitions so the members have a place to shoot.