First And Last Equipment [Archive]

Jammer Six

02-22-2012, 01:56 AM

Okay, I'm getting closer to taking the plunge.

It's time to build a spreadsheet, with hard numbers, and start comparing it to the bank balance.

So.

I'm older than I used to be. I've spent a lifetime in construction, and I ran my own company for twenty years. Or more. Or less. Depends how you count. I apprenticed in my first trade in 1977.

My point is that I've bought (and sold) lots and lots of equipment. Then I sold some more equipment, and bought some more. Then I bought some used equipment, and then I bought some new equipment. More than once, I sold the whole shooting match, and started over in disgust. I built some equipment. I repaired a lot of equipment. I bought cheap equipment and modified it. I bought expensive equipment and swore at it. I've stared in dismay at a smoking pile of equipment-turned-to-rubble, and wondered what I was going to do next. I've made modifications to equipment that were wonderful, right up until the short circuit/blown hose/fire/rainstorm. I learned a whole string of swear words that are specific to equipment, and another set that is specific to equipment salesmen. And saleswomen. I'm a sucker for women with black hair selling equipment. There was this one young lady who indicated that I was so hot, she could hardly wait for me to buy this equipment so that she and I could go in the back and...

Well. Seems to me that equipment was junk. It also seems to me that somehow, we never made it to the back room.

So I'm interested in setting up a list of equipment for casting boolits.

I have three requirements. Note that, after all the equipment I've bought, a low price is not one of my requirements. I learned that the hard way. In fact, I learned it a few times. I'll either pay the price, or I won't do it.

One, I want to buy this equipment once.

For instance, it appears to me that one place that quality will make a big difference is the mold. So I want a top-flight mold. I will spend money to get a high quality, bees knees, dancing mold. By quality, I mean that I won't ever have to replace it. I won't want to "move up" in quality, I won't need to replace a worn out mold. It will do what it's supposed to do, the way it's supposed to do it. I'll buy it once, and I'll use it the rest of my life. Since I'm fifty four, it won't have to last more than a century or so. If I do this, I'll use it a lot, and I'll use it hard. So I'd rather buy the one I would upgrade to now, and skip the intermediate steps. Since I'm brand new, I anticipate having problems, and I don't want the problems to be the equipment. I want to know, for instance, that whatever the problem is, it isn't the mold.

Two, if there is an "automatic transmission", I want it.

That is, if there is a labor saving device, or a piece of equipment that makes the process easier, or reduces the learning curve, I'm in. Yes, I can run a '57 five-over-four Peterbuilt, I can back it up with the mirrors and empty both it and the pup, but I damn near killed myself learning how to do so. Modern automatic transmissions are better. Hell, old automatic transmissions are better! My favorite, years later, turned out to be an International 10 yard, because of the automatic. Don't get me started about 977s. I still have nightmares about those. And it had an automatic transmission.

Three, I want the equipment to be reasonably common.

I want equipment that everyone here knows how to run. Running one-offs or equipment that is so specialized that only three guys in the state know how to run it has its place, but if one of those guys is sick and the other two are busy, you get to wait, because if you take answers from anyone else, bad things happen. So I want equipment that everyone and their brother knows how to run. The other point about highly specialized equipment is that, in my experience, when it goes down, it goes down hard, and costs more to fix that it should oughta.

The top end, for me, appears to be the line between the Magma Master Pot and the Magma Bullet Master. I am not interested in the machine, but I will consider the pot. I wish to cast, not operate a fully automated machine.

Other interesting points about my intentions, in case you need more information:

I'm willing to try both ladles and bottom pour; I'm not locked into a method.
I'll be casting for a .45 ACP and a .38 Super.
I shoot about one to three hundred rounds a week.
I reload all of my own ammo, on a Square Deal B.
I'll be casting in my basement.
I live in a city.
I'd like to spend around a thousand, I can double that if I need to.
I'd rather not spend more than three thousand out of the gate.
I'll need to join a different range.
I used to carry sacks of gravel and concrete two at a time. That was 35 years ago. Now if there's weight to be dealt with, I use my checkbook.
I'm not interested in any unnecessary risks. (Splashes, burns, etc.) I wish, therefore, to minimize any chance of them occurring. I was an apprentice before fall protection became common place, and the days of "if you need a harness, you shouldn't be up here!" are over. And good riddance.

So, with this long post in mind, what would a starting list of equipment be, in your opinion?

I know that there are several custom mold makers here as sponsors, and I certainly mean no offense to any of them by asking for recommendations, but I would like to know if any of them would be better for a rank beginner than others, and why.

And finally, thank you for taking the time to listen to my requirements.

Buckshot

02-22-2012, 02:48 AM

..............My personal opinion, if you're starting out and would be casting for only pistols at first and using the KISS principle, it would be basically Lee equipment. Get a Lee 20# furnace. Use Lee LA and it doesn't matter if the boolits are the TL design or regular lube groove designs. *Note* thin the Lee LA 60/40 lube/paint thinner to start, and modify it from there to suit.

Slug your handgun barrels. Get a representative mould for each pistol and cast some boolits. Assuming they drop at least your groove diameter load a couple dummy rounds 'as cast' and see if they chamber. The thing is, sizing is something to do only if you HAVE to do it, like putting shoes on a horse.

So for the outlay for the furnace and a couple moulds + a couple inexpensive detail items, you'll be in the foom fodder business. If you HAVE to size, use the Lee push throughs. Not only are they the least expensive, nose first push through from the base dies are THE most accurate way to size there is.

................Buckshot

bfuller14

02-22-2012, 03:18 AM

I agree with Buckshot. As a newbe myself I would say look
at molds from MiHec, Accurate, and NOE. They are great for
us newb's.

Regards,
Barry

ReloaderFred

02-22-2012, 03:28 AM

I was where you are now, only it was 1968. I wanted to get into casting to help with my ever increasing shooting hobby. I started with a small cast iron pot, hung over a propane torch by a wire from a board. I used a ladle and a single cavity mold, and slowly cast my bullets one at a time. I bought a used Lyman lube sizer, some 50-50 Alox lube, and went to town making bullets.

Fast forward to today. I now have two bottom pour pots, one 10 pound, and one 20 pound, that sit idle, collecting dust and spider webs. I have roughly 100 bullet molds, which range from really cheap to really expensive. They range from single cavity to 10 cavity, in a multitude of calibers and bullet weights. I also have that original Lyman lube sizer, an RCBS lube sizer, two Saeco lube sizers, and 5 Star lube sizers.

I now do about 90% of my casting with a Magma Master Caster. My bullet sizing is also about 90% done on the Star machines.

I wish I could have afforded better equipment back in 1968, but with small mouths to feed, and working for the phone company at not much over minimum wage, it wasn't in the cards. Now I buy good equipment and enjoy casting.

With the criteria you've set, I'd suggest buying the Master Caster and two molds, one for .45 and one for .38 Super. Magma makes lots of molds for both calibers, and they're good ones. Then I'd buy a Star lube sizer and be done with it.

If I had all the money I've invested in other machines and molds over the years, I could buy a whole bunch more firearms, and probably an automated bullet sizer, and still have money left over for powder and primers..............

Hope this helps.

Fred

Bullet Caster

02-22-2012, 03:33 AM

Also don't forget about General Ordnance Development moulds. They make high end moulds for the money. BC

Longwood

02-22-2012, 04:28 AM

[QUOTE=Buckshot;1601906]..............My personal opinion, if you're starting out and would be casting for only pistols at first and using the KISS principle, it would be basically Lee equipment. Get a Lee 20# furnace.

I am very confused.
Why would you tell a new person to buy stuff that has so many and causes so many problems?
Is there anyone on this site that owns Lee equipment that has not had to deal with constant and numerous problems in order to get it to do what it is expected to do

I cast and reloaded for years but quit several years ago and sold much of my equipment.
I made a huge mistake last year and bought some of Lee's products, including their most expensive progressive press, with all of its problematic plastic parts,
a couple of bullet molds, a scale and worst of all the Drip-O-Matic bottom spill,
melting pot.
I finally got the press to work fairly well after I sold the powder measure, the bullet feeder and took off the primer set-up.
I might buy another Lee die set but ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ELSE.
I sure wish I had back the quality equipment that I sold for less than I paid for the junk I now have to constantly struggle with.

btroj

02-22-2012, 11:27 AM

I can certainly agree with what Buckshot said. Keep it simple at first, you need to learn to use what you have.

Look at the groups Ben has gotten with bullets he pan lubed and ran thru a Lee push thru sizer.

In simple terms- It isn't the quality of the equipment used that matters, it is the skill of the user! A new guy using the best equipment available is still a new guy. He will make rookie mistakes.

Buy something, anything, and learn to use it! Great ammo can be made with a pot over a fire, a ladle, and a Lee mould.

This is not an equipment race, it is a skills test. Buy it, learn to use it, succeed. Not sure how to make it more simple than that.

canyon-ghost

02-22-2012, 12:08 PM

I bought the Lyman Master Casting kit, it's a good value for the lubesizer alone. I ladle cast with two cavity molds. It's alright, if you have whole afternoons to do it with. I have Lyman iron two cavity molds. They're fine, some are great but, they're all heavy. I have some RBCS too. I recently tried Lee and NOE aluminum, really like the lighter weight for ladle casting.

I use Rockchuckers, they are stout presses but, they aren't lightweight either. I don't really need them to be all that stout, heck, what do I need to crush brass cases for? These presses can outlast your desire to use them.

Really, I like my RCBS presses and dies. I like my Lyman two cavity molds. I didn't buy it as a kit but, the Rockchucker kit is built to last. While the molds, some work great for me, others I may as well sell. Some are a thousandth too big for a particular gun, someone else needs them. The important thing is whether you are satisfied with your equipment when you have it. That's all that is going to matter. I do think RCBS and some Redding dies are fantastic. And, I've used them to shoot competitively.

PS: The two stick Maxitorque was a Model Eleven eleven Mack truck, the rest were practice. Lol. That 5&4 gearbox wasn't all that tough.

canyon-ghost

02-22-2012, 12:25 PM

The Automatic transmission, or Progressive presses: Your best deal there is Dillon and the 550 press. I had one used, never used it. My problem with them is the powder drop, it seems you'd get some swings in the amount of powder used. I use a Redding #3 with micrometer and the scale pan, weigh it and trickle in the last bit. It's much more consistent but, has the disadvantage of being slower. It's a benchrest technique. I get very good ammunition.

Those progressive presses are like anything with automation, when it stops, it's a trainwreck to figure out.

Ben

02-22-2012, 12:32 PM

Ditto ! to what Buckshot has just said ! !

nose first push through from the base dies are THE most accurate way to size there is.

edler7

02-22-2012, 12:56 PM

I understand about wanting quality equipment. “The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory." If you can afford it, there's no better way to get things started. With that in mind...

Miha (MP) molds, or Accurate molds. Both are top notch. 4 cavity should be able to keep up with your needs.
Star lubrisizer and heater. If you want to go all the way, get the air fed lube option.
RCBS Pro Melt Furnace, or the Magma.
A good quality hot plate.
A good quality 1" micrometer- Starret is considered top of the line.
Welding gloves, apron, face shield.
Turkey fryer, ingot mold and dutch oven or melting pot for making ingots.

I figure all this would run about $1300 give or take options, what you can find on sale, or used but still has a lot of life in it, or what you would already have laying around.

Then there are incidentals like a couple pans for lube making, lube ingredients, flux for the pot...that kind of stuff that is more out of pocket than initial big dollar outlay.

Follow Buckshot's advice on slugging the barrels, otherwise you are swimming upstream from the start. FIT IS KING in the cast bullet game.

cbrick

02-22-2012, 01:05 PM

I gotta agree completely with Longwood,

The OP states repeatedly that he wants quality equipment that will last a lifetime and won't need constant tinkering with to make it work or keep it working or need constant replacement, the first post right out of the box is to buy LEE, the very equipment that will assure all of that. :veryconfu

My suggestions are:

Magma Master Caster 40 pound pot, built like a tank and will outlast you. It will heat to casting temp 40 pounds of alloy in about 10 minutes longer than the RCBS does 20 pounds. I have had mine for several years and I'm still waiting for the first drip.

For molds RCBS has always been a high quality mold but in the last few years has really stepped up the quality control and they have a huge selection of great bullet designs. Then of course, M-P, NOE, Accurate, Mountain Molds, LBT. For molds this really is the golden age of bullet casting.

Most any ladle will do but for size selection I go with Rowell, I use #1 for most casting & #2 for large bullets in multi cav molds.

There is only one choice for lubrisizers, get the Star with the air pressure system, you'll end up getting the air pressure anyway and it does make a huge difference. Get the dies from Lathesmith, every bit the quality of magma's dies or better and less expensive. If you want the highest quality don't get something else and invest a bunch of money in dies only to then get the Star latter on anyway and re-buy dies.

Rick

cbrick

02-22-2012, 01:08 PM

“The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory."

Very wise words, very true indeed.

Rick

Longwood

02-22-2012, 01:23 PM

Very wise words, very true indeed.

Rick

Telling people to buy Lee products is like telling them to shop at the dollar store.

Idaho Sharpshooter

02-22-2012, 01:28 PM

NOE Moulds
Waage Pot. 50-60lb so by time the pot is getting low, you need to use the bathroom and get another cup of coffee. Oh, yeah, get a 24oz coffee cup.
Turkey cooker with a 6-8qt Dutch Oven. That lets you melt and alloy 100lbs of metal at a time.
Some of Blammer's Ingot Moulds so you can spend a day alloying and then stacking ingots once or twice a year.

I cast my first boolets in 1964. I wish I had had the above listed equipment then, and two each SDB's and 550B's so I did not have to do the primer shuffle.

Rich

bobthenailer

02-22-2012, 02:10 PM

Bret4207

02-22-2012, 07:23 PM

Telling people to buy Lee products is like telling them to shop at the dollar store.

I think you're being a little hard on Lee. Hate their pots, hate their books, not a fan of their progressives, but their dies and moulds are fine. I've seen what it takes to destroy a Lee mould, I did it once. Use some care and they last quite nicely.

cbrick

02-22-2012, 07:39 PM

I think you're being a little hard on Lee.

As a very wise man once said . . .

“The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory."

I've had LEE molds and in all honesty I can say . . . never ever again, not even if they were free. Simply not worth the grief and aggravation they caused.

Rick

Jammer Six

02-22-2012, 07:51 PM

It looks to me like MP Molds doesn't stock all moulds all the time.

I see a .45 200 SWC, but nothing in 230.

Accurate and Mountain moulds must both have a meplat. (Is that specific to CNC?)

The Mountain site mentions that his moulds will work with the Magma Master Caster. Will all of these moulds work in that machine?

cbrick

02-22-2012, 08:01 PM

It looks to me like MP Molds doesn't stock all moulds all the time.

Nope, he doesn't stock anything. All he will have is overruns from group buys. If there is anyone that backs out of a group buy he'll have those in stock until sold, then on to the next group buy.

Rick

StratsMan

02-22-2012, 08:12 PM

Jammer...

Very few molds are "stocked" by the custom mold makers... if you want molds on-demand, you'll need to select Lyman, RCBS or LEE from vendors such as Midway and MidSouthShootersSupply...

I read your request as focusing on "Automatic Transmission"... With that in mind, I wouldn't smelt Wheel Weights or anything else; I'd buy my lead, already cast in a known alloy. Missouri Bullet (www.missouribullet.com) is but one example of a company that sells alloy in ingot form and with known consistency and hardness. I'm sure there are others closer to Seattle.... I do smelt, but I do it because I'm cheap... If I truly wanted to just cast and shoot, I'd let UPS deliver my lead instead of smelting....

Jammer Six

02-22-2012, 08:14 PM

Stratsman, that's exactly what I'm planning, at least in the beginning. :D

Great minds think alike.

I plan to order from folks right here, I see (quite literally) tons and tons of lead for sale here on a daily basis.

I also notice that you can't order a Magma Master Caster with a .45 230 roundnose. Apparently, they don't make such a mould, and are leaving the moulds to others.

StratsMan

02-22-2012, 08:25 PM

RE: Automatic Transmission

Ballisti-Cast is a new vendor here, and makes equipment competitive to Magma... Tom at Accurate Molds will configure molds to fit Magma equipment... just gotta order it that way at the beginning.... and he's virtually "on-demand"... only takes about a week to turn out multi-cavity molds... really cuts down the molding time...

And definitely go for the Star or Ballisticast sizer/luber.... sold my Lyman... too slow....

Jim Flinchbaugh

02-22-2012, 08:41 PM

Jammer six,
there is one thing that no one has mentioned yet and
you need to understand this first and foremost

No matter what equipment you buy, no matter how good or how expensive,
you will have to learn to use it and it will take time. You cannot buy experience.
your first post indicates you should know this already, but if not, remember that.
It will take time. I've only been at this a little over a year and my molds are still revealing their secrets to me. Each one is like a fickle women, it wont tell you what it wants to be happy, you'll just have to date it & figure it out. :D

Jammer Six

02-22-2012, 08:49 PM

PS: The two stick Maxitorque was a Model Eleven eleven Mack truck, the rest were practice. Lol. That 5&4 gearbox wasn't all that tough.
Even all these years later, that's good to hear!

By the time I broke mine, I was in charge, and, as I noticed with other equipment, nobody was going to tell the boss that he made a mistake! So I had the very definite feeling that nobody was telling me the whole story.

Before I bought it, it belonged to my (then) father-in-law, and while he was training me up on it, he had a marked tendency to explain all my mistakes as being a direct result of my family tree, and the various mammals that were obviously present in it. But I believed him the first time I broke that thing, and when it broke again, I thought I'd just made a mistake.

Jammer Six

02-22-2012, 08:50 PM

Each one is like a fickle women, it wont tell you what it wants to be happy, you'll just have to date it & figure it out. :D

Oh, no...

I'm dead. Don't tell me that they'll throw me out in the snow without my shoes.

I hate that.

Jammer Six

02-23-2012, 12:23 AM

Okay, riddle me this.

If I decide to use a ladle, is there any reason not to simply get a cast iron pot and a turkey fryer thingie to melt the lead?

This means I could probably start casting for less than $50, plus the mould.

Mk42gunner

02-23-2012, 01:27 AM

A turkey fryer, while great for smelting wheel weights, puts out a very large surplus of BTU's for casting. I started with a Coleman stove and a cast iron pot; you can make very good boolits that way. Bret uses a Stainless Steel pot and reports that he gets lees dross from casting.

Since you plan on buying your alloy and not smelting; I would get an elelctric pot, I could not believe how much more comfortable it was to ladle from an electric pot than the coleman stove.

Waage makes a pot (#4257 I think) that they recommend for boolit casting, you have to call them about it, it isn't on their website. I like the RCBS ladle for casting.

I have ladled a lot of lead out of my Lee 4-20; but it does drip slightly, mine will drip slowly until the dripart builds up to the spout and self limits; one of their ladle furnaces wouldn't do that.

Robert

mooman76

02-23-2012, 01:42 AM

Many of us started out with a ladle and a cast iron pot. Good way to learn and have fun doing it.

Jammer Six

02-23-2012, 02:04 AM

I see-- the turkey thing is more heat than needed for casting.

ReloaderFred

02-23-2012, 02:37 AM

Magma does indeed sell a .45 caliber 230 gr. Round Nose mold. In fact, I've got two of them for my Master Caster. It's listed on their mold chart. You have to look at the bevel base chart to find them. They have both a 230 gr. RN and a 233 gr. RN on that chart.

Hope this helps.

Fred

geargnasher

02-23-2012, 03:42 AM

Moulds: Don't screw around. Measure your guns (slug them), and buy a custom mould from either Accurate Molds, Mihec (if he has one in stock), or Mountain Molds.

Casting furnace: DO NOT buy a Lee. I have two and love them, but you were very descriptive about your desires, and I can tell you that you WILL NOT be happy with Lee furnaces or Lee bullet moulds. If you want a bottom pour, get a Lyman or RCBS furnace, preferably an older one NOT made in China. I can't vouch for Magma furnaces but all reports I've heard on them were glowing. I'd recommend a bottom pour because it's very much an "automatic transmission" compared to ladling. If you choose to ladle, get a LYMAN casting ladle and a Waage furnace. Not sure if Waage makes bottom pours, but if they do I wouldn't hesitate to buy one.

Boolit sizer: Don't screw around here either, get a Star and don't look back. You might soon get the pneumatic pressure attachment too. Get your dies from member Lathesmith, and Buckshot might make them too if you ask him.

Dies: Go carbide, Redding, RCBS, or Lee, for the calibers you load it might not matter. IIRC your press takes standard 7/8"x14 dies.

Other stuff you'll need: Make a mould oven out of a steel electrical box, BBQ grill thermometer, and a cheap, open-coil hot plate. Use it to preheat your mould and have a place to park it any time you need a break, be it 30 seconds or 30 minutes, your mould will be ready to go with no wasted time casting to get it up to temperature. Gloves, old hammer handle (for the sprue plate if you don't want to cut them by hand), casting thermometer, bullet puller, stainless steel teaspoon (for policing and skimming the pot), hardwood sawdust (for flux, hope you have a window in your basement into which you can put an exhaust fan!!), a few old bath towels and sundry dollar store stuff you probably have on hand will be all you need.

One more thing: I just started loading for .38 Super, and you might find that you will need to use a .38 Special expander die to get enough expansion for cast boolits in it. If the brass is too tough for your boolits and the expander isn't large enough or doesn't go DEEP enough into the case, it can squeeze your boolits undersized and cause leading issues. You'll just have to cast some, let them age harden, seat one, pull it, and see how it compares to your bore slug (groove) dimensions. I ended up having some custom spuds made for my Lee Powder-Thru-Expander dies to solve this problem in several calibers. Just a heads-up on a common problem with cast boolits and 9mm, .40, and possibly .38 Super. With the .45 ACP I doubt you'll have this problem, the thin, low-pressure brass is usually stretchy enough not to swage boolits unless they're really soft.

Gear

Buckshot

02-23-2012, 04:06 AM

..........Well, my goodness! :-)

I picked up on this from the start: "Okay, I'm getting closer to taking the plunge." Yes I did read the balance of Jammer 6's post.

I still stand by my statement: "..............My personal opinion, if you're starting out and would be casting for only pistols at first and using the KISS principle, it would be basically Lee equipment."

Yes it appears Jammer 6 is prepared to spend some cash right out of the gate for equipment, and I agree that buying quality and paying the price for it is never money poorly spent. However for less then $100 out of pocket he can be casting and shooting his own slugs by Thursday of next week. Compared to what he's prepared to spend when he makes his decision it'd be a pretty cheap set of training wheels.

He can be producing and shooting his own cast boolits for $100, and reading various recommendations and recriminations over the $379 RCBS furnace or $300 Lyman unit, and maybe the $300 Saeco lube/size press. The point is also he could very well decide he'd rather buy commercial cast instead of casting his own? Who knows? In my book, a new guy starting out can't go too far wrong in the beginning keeping it simple. But of course, that's my opinion and everyone has one.

...................Buckshot

Jammer Six

02-23-2012, 04:17 AM

This is a fascinating line of inquiry. I must say the Master Caster is looking quite good. Pull the lever, make a boolit. The Ballisticast is almost exactly twice as much money.

Tell me this: if I went with the Master Caster, and just pulled the lever, is there anything that I'd miss learning?

On one hand, I want to learn everything. On the other, I need boolits. Back In The Day, I was in the last class (Voc-Tech, that Local 131 sent me to) of carpenters that was taught to build double hung windows from scratch. Because nobody does it anymore. Not only are modern manufactured windows cheaper, but they are far, far superior, from virtually every point of view. I could probably figure out how to build one, but there would never be a reason to.

I say this to make the point that it is possible to learn a skill that becomes obsolete.

Jim, I just want to reiterate that I understand about skill. I just want to cut the equipment cost down by avoiding cheap suits. ("We can't afford cheap suits.") And I want to avoid standing there wondering if I made a mistake or if there's something wrong with the equipment.

My main hesitation with the Master Caster is that it appears that it's so good it's almost a different kind of operation- it almost looks like it's something beyond casting.

I'm coming down to the decision: I'm probably either going to go with the Master Caster or a ladle system. At the moment, if I made the call right this instant, I'd get an iron pot from Wally World, just because it looks like it would take less than fifty bucks plus a mold. It occurred to me about an hour ago that I already have a hot plate. In fact, I got it to melt lead Back In The Day, when I was making lead weights for diving. I could afford to do that, decide that I didn't like it, scrap everything, and buy the Master Caster.

I'd also like to check this idea out: if I went with an iron pot, a hot plate and a dipper, and I bought a high-end mold from one of our resident vendors, and then decided that I didn't like dipping, would I be able to sell the mold if I went to a Master Caster?

I appreciate everyones patience.

P.S. Buckshot, our posts crossed in cyber-space. :D I think I'm arriving at the same conclusion!

I slugged my barrels once upon a time, but I should have written down the results. It was a screaming pain in the ***, as I recall, I almost got the sinker stuck beyond hope, but I guess I get to do it again.

btroj

02-23-2012, 08:57 AM

Casting skill is anything but obsolete. If it were this site would not exist.
It isn't the actual casting that takes time to learn as much as problem solving things. Finding a rhythm, pot temp, mold temp, and on and on. We all use a different method, it takes finding what works for you.

Gear gave you a list of good equipment. I use a 21 year old RCBS pot, a Sar sizer, and a few moulds from Mihec, Lee, and NOE. I am strictly a bottom pour guy, never really thought aout ladle casting. In the past I used a Lee pot and a Lyman 45 sizer. I got the Star because I wanted to be able to size and lube faster, not better.

In the end I will say this- you still need to know ow to use the equipment. You will certainly be able to produce a bunch of bullets, the key is making good bullets.

Bret4207

02-23-2012, 09:18 AM

Ya know, you might hate casting. I understand that you have plenty of dough and you don't want to fart around, got it. But why put $1K or more into something you might hate?

Get a steel or iron pot, you already got a hot plate, get a RCBS or Lyman ladle, pick a mould and try casting. Yes, you can buy an auto machine and produce boolits, but you aren't casting, your pulling a lever and the machine decides for you and, IMO, limits you.

All the fancy, high dollar gear in the world won't teach you how to cast and make good boolits.

BTW- if you get a good mould and hate casting, it'll sell here in a heartbeat. A Mastercaster may take some months to get rid of looking for someone who actually has any money these days, plus how do you ship it, etc.?

ballisti-cast

02-23-2012, 11:08 AM

Jammer Six,

1. Our machine is twice as much money but twice as fast. It has two molds instead of one and is designed differently to prevent bullets from sticking in the molds like happens with the master caster.

2. If you bought a mold and went with a machine later, most molds can be converted to fit on them. I'm not sure if Magma offers that as a service but Ballisti-Cast can convert them to fit on either a Master Caster or Mark IV.

geargnasher

02-23-2012, 11:23 AM

Off Topic, but itsn't it refreshing to have a Banner Sponsor weigh in with comments on their product in pertinent threads? Makes a person feel like, well, maybe they care.

Buckshot and Bret, you know I'd recommend the Lee stuff or a good ladle and saucepan first to almost anybody who is wanting to get their feet wet in a couple of pistol calibers, my recommendations were based mostly on what I get from Jammer Six's personality and background. All the high-dollar stuff I recommended could be turned at only a 20% loss in our SS section in a week or less if he hates it. That being said, you guys are right and a $20 Lee mould, $20 Lyman ladle, and a steel saucepan is tough to beat when learning the ropes, if you get mad at it you can throw it all in the lake and not cry over the money.

Gear

1Shirt

02-23-2012, 12:22 PM

If you listen to Buckshot, Gear, & Bret on this subject you are getting good advice, based on common sense, experiance, and a bit of logic tossed in!
1Shirt!:coffeecom

tonyjones

02-23-2012, 12:53 PM

+1 Gear.
I also find it refreshing that Ballisti-Cast did not trash their competitor. They merely stated why they feel that their equipment is better. I appreciate B-C for their POSITIVE sales approach.

Regards,

Tony

SciFiJim

02-23-2012, 01:26 PM

I started with a $5 mold, a $1 soup ladle and a sauce pan from Goodwill. What I learned making round balls one at a time taught me the things that helped me decide on equipment. I also learned things like what lead looks like while heating from solid to liquid. What the sprue looks like while cooling and to watch for the sprue to develop a dimple just before it gets solid as it sucks in more lead.

Someone said that you can't buy experience and that is true. However, you can buy inexpensive training that will help you later. Figuring out whether the problem is equipment or operator related is part of the learning process. If you can't figure it out with simple equipment like Lee, you won't be able to find the problem with expensive equipment. Think of the first purchase of inexpensive equipment as training aids. We all took baby steps in the beginning. I don't know of anyone that started off at a dead run.

Once you progress to your final equipment, you can always hand off the learning equipment to another new beginner.

cbrick

02-23-2012, 01:43 PM

Tell me this: if I went with the Master Caster, and just pulled the lever, is there anything that I'd miss learning?

Hhmmm . . . Am I reading this wrong? Are you refering to the automatic casting machine? If that is correcct that is NOT what was recommended, the recommendation in this thread is for the Magma 40 pound bottom pour casting pot ONLY.

I mightily recommend AGAINST starting with and learning casting with an automatic machine just like I always recommend not learning reloading on a progressive press.

Rick

mold maker

02-23-2012, 02:27 PM

Most of us start casting to save money. It hardly ever works out that way, but it's a good excuse.
If price is no object, and speed is everything, Buy factory. If you want to start a new hobby, casting is great.
You didn't learn to drive with a 10 wheel tractor pulling a double trailer, and you will never cast really good boolits starting out with all the bells and whistles.
There is a learning curve, that starts with the basics. Regardless of how big of a hurry your in, or how much you spend, it demands the basics first. The process involves 700 degree splashes of liquid lead, and the finished products if not properly done can kill you.
The basics can best be learned with basic equipment. The first basic you must have are Lynan (or others) cast bullet hand book. That knowledge must be transported to your brain. You have to know the dangers in order to recognize and avoid them.
Your never get all the bells and whistles working if you don't know the principal of what they are supposed to do. Keep it simple (KISS) means exactly that. Learn, and relearn till you get a through understanding of the process, before getting excited about speed.
I would never advise a new caster to outspend his knowledge. It's a sure route to a fire sale in disgust, if not a tragedy.

mooman76

02-23-2012, 09:41 PM

I agree with Buckshot here. Go cheap. None up the stuff we mentioned here is poorly made and will all work to produce thousands of good bullets. Also anything you buy can easily be resold here if you decide to go another route. A lee 6 cavity mould and a pot will crank out lots of bullets and the Lee 6x moulds are built better than their smaller ones. You will learn allot more by doing it yourself. Maybe you can find someone in your area that will show you what they got and even let you cast a little.

canyon-ghost

02-23-2012, 10:22 PM

The problem with the old manual 5 & 4 gearbox, if you ever lug it, it jams in gear! Dang thing wasn't right.

Anyway, I thought you could use a few ideas. The Magma you were looking at, the guy never changes the mold because it's extremely hot. Just pulling the lever is done after he knows the lead is up to temp, fluxed and clean, and ready to pour. The problem- it's more lead than you'd need for a weekend of shooting.
My afternoon casting sessions get me about 350 good bullets, and I'm picky! I weigh mine. So, I may start with 400 to 500 in a 3 lb. coffee can. It's about 1/2 a coffee can of bullets, if quantity makes it easier to visualize.

I'd recommend an electric pot, in 110 volt. The idea is not to have to chase propane tanks or cylinders around (the supplies gotta come from somewhere).

My small scale set up may seem to old fashioned but, it supplies : 22 hornet, 32-20, 32 magnum, 9mm, 7mm, 41 magnum and 44 Special. I also have duplicates, two guns in the same caliber. I make enough to keep me shooting.

Jammer Six

02-23-2012, 10:25 PM

13Echo

02-23-2012, 10:31 PM

Well as to the Lee pots I'm still using my 20lb pots after 10 years and have had a 10 lb pot for over 20. If you ladle cast the Lee is just about as good as any. The bottom pour pot has the reputation as a dripper. For moulds until you develop some skill you will likely destroy or otherwise screw up one or more. So I would recommend starting with Lee moulds till you develop technique. You can go through quite a few of them for the price of a top of the line and there are several bullet styles Lee has that are excellent. Lube sizer - take your pick or pan lube or use Lee tumble lube and push through sizers - they work really well. If you want to ladle cast then Lyman or RCBS ladle (the Lee is pitiful). The equipment can be easily upgraded as you gain experience and the equipment you started with is still useful. My 2cents.

Jerry Liles

Jammer Six

02-23-2012, 10:40 PM

Alright, I'm convinced.

I've seen new apprentices work, and I don't assign them to either high dollar equipment or high dollar material. You guys finally got through.

The decision is made, a pot, my old hotplate, a ladle and one small mould.

Once I've learned what that has to teach, I'll be back with more questions, I'm sure.

(I said the same thing to dad in about 1983. I was an apprentice, and I had just come off a huge job out of Local 131 setting cabinets in a skyscraper in downtown Seattle. Dad and I were setting cabinets, and I made a suggestion. He looked at me, and with a perfectly straight face, told me to do it his way, until I had learned everything there was to know about his method, and then we'd compare our methods. I figured that would take about a week, so I said "okay, that's what we'll do." That was 35 years ago, and he's gone, but I haven't finished learning everything about his method.)

Oh, and lugging that damned Peterbuilt down and jamming it in gear with 30 yards of pitrun behind me was exactly how I almost killed myself! I'm still not sure how I made the corner, but I remember standing on the brake with both feet, and ruining a perfectly good set of Carhartts.

Now, which mould?

Mal Paso

02-23-2012, 10:48 PM

977 Huh? You ARE Experienced!

Lee sizers will work and you aren't out real money. My regret was not bypassing the Lyman/RCBS sizers and getting a Star Sizer.

Jammer Six

02-23-2012, 10:55 PM

977 Huh? You ARE Experienced!
Yar. Took me all summer to get a full bucket and load trucks without breaking sideboards, and I never was any good at getting it onto a lowboy.

Don't tell me that there aren't any 977s anymore. You'll break my heart.

1bluehorse

02-24-2012, 01:16 AM

Far as I'm concerned you could have quit reading after post #12, CBRICK nailed it just about perfect, with maybe the exception on the pot. I'd go for the RCBS pro melt, not that it's a better pot cause it ain't but it's about as good as it gets and it's 22lbs instead of 40. After all you've been through I really doubt you want to sit and cast 40lbs of 230gr. 45's. Your back will feel like you were still packin that 2 bag cement thing....

Buckshot

02-24-2012, 01:36 AM

.................Jammer 6, there is or seems to be a certain amount of voo-doo in casting. Some moulds are as eager to please as a spotted puppy, and others are like, ...................... an ex-wife? NOTHING seems to work. When things are perking along and bright well filled out boolits are falling like rain from the blocks, it is sublime and interuptions are not suffered gracefully. In order to appease the casting gods I have found that experimenting with your dress can have an effect. I've settled on a campaign hat, jock strap and hurache sandles as Costume de rigueur. I know that 9.3x62Al's utilizes a beanie with a propeller on top, as I lent him one of my spares. But as to what else, he keeps it a secret.

..................Buckshot

Jammer Six

02-24-2012, 01:45 AM

I have a speedo. That's my plan, a speedo, a Sparks VMII, cowboy boots and a face shield worn backwards, to keep splashes of lead from going down my neck.

Jammer Six

02-24-2012, 01:56 AM

Okay, step one.

I slugged the barrel of the first weapon I will cast for.

A Springfield milspec 1911. Lots of modifications.

I remembered that slugging a barrel took 14 times as much force as I thought it would, so I brought a bigger hammer this time, and drove a lead sinker through the barrel.

With my cheap calipers, the largest measurement was .4515, but I don't believe the last decimal place, I don't believe these calipers are that accurate. So I'd say the barrel is between .451 and .452. There were places on the slug that measured .450, and even some that went down to .449, but the large measurement is the one that matters, isn't it?

If I understand everything correctly, a .452 mould is what I want.

Ford SD

02-24-2012, 02:19 AM

And I appreciate the information!

Talk about relevant, on-time information... Ballista-cast, you made your company look good.

I thought the Master Caster made two or four boolits every time you pulled the handle. Looking back at the video, I have no clue where I got that idea, probably a case of seeing what I wanted to see rather than what was there.

If each pull is one boolit, that changes things. Mainly, it changes how interested I am in machines in the beginning. Particularly if any moulds I buy can be adapted later to the machines.

I'm fairly sure I'm going to go with the consensus, and go with a cast iron pot, a ladle and the hotplate I own.

So, on to specifics and moulds. I want to start with a .45 round nose, at 230 grains.

In addition to the pot, studying the book the Los Angeles club put out, I need:

A mould
Mould handles
Thermometer

With a towel and piece of wood (both of which I have a lot), I should be able to produce a boolit.

First, I'm going to slug my barrels. I've been putting that off, because I remember it being a screaming pain, and I have a delicate hind end. It's why I look so good in pictures.

I could be wrong (as there is a lot of different caster on here)

My best casting session to date has been with the below equipment
20 lb bottom pour pot
2 4 cav H&G 45acp moulds 200g (Balallist-cast moulds)
Yes two identical molds casting at the same time

I had problems keeping the pot even 3/4 full adding ingots slowly every so often to keep level up (so temp stayed up) So i wish I had a bigger pot

2nd best day was with 2 rcbs molds (at same time)

If you are going to ladle pour, you almost limit your self to a 2 cav mold
and you will spend all day casting and you will be casting/ lubing/loading every week

I Have also bottom poured a 4 cav and 2 2 cav molds at the same time
and on another day did a 6cav and a 4 cav and got ok but I find my reject rate goes up casting different molds / size cavities

So my best result have been with 2 molds from the same manufacture
with almost the same weight bullets

Different Maufactures mold retain heat differently,
I have problems, some will say they don't when casting at the same time

So I would recomend to spend less time in front of a lead pot
Get at least a 20 lb bottom pour pot and 4 or 6 cav molds

You could still use the bottom pour pot for ladle casting

if you cast 230g bullets you will go through a pot of lead fast
Have you thought about 200g or 185g bullets for the 45
1 -20lb pot of 230g is less than 600 boolits

If casting in the basment you are going to have to rig up a exaust fan to the out side
Kitchen range Hood with back and sides will work, get one with high cfm

You can even get lexan. plastic window in front at the top and it might save you a few splashes (lower part open for hands)

SciFiJim

02-24-2012, 02:21 AM

If I understand everything correctly, a .452 mould is what I want.

Yep, .452 is a great place to start. It is a very common size. You will need to decide on the sizing system you want. I have a Lyman4500 and I use the Lee push thru sizers with tumble lube. It just depends on what I want to accomplish.

ReloaderFred

02-24-2012, 12:52 PM

Just for information to correct Post # 46, the Master Caster drops two bullets with each pull of the handle.

Hope this helps.

Fred

cbrick

02-24-2012, 01:13 PM

Just for information to correct Post # 46, the Master Caster drops two bullets with each pull of the handle. Hope this helps. Fred

That's correct, Magma offers two nozzles for the Master Caster Pot, the normal single spout and a dual spout for filling two cavities at one time, this is an awesome feature.

Rick

ballisti-cast

02-24-2012, 01:16 PM

The Master Caster uses one mold with 2 cavities where our machine uses two molds. The casting machines only take 1 or 2 cavity molds so if your looking at that route in the future and want to be able to use the molds you already have get 2 cavity ones and not 4 or 6. Granted you can cast a lot higher quantities per hour with a 4 or 6 cavity mold.

Jammer Six

02-24-2012, 04:21 PM

Took my first action, slugged my barrel, and made my first purchase.

I ordered the current edition of Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook from Midway.

First money spent, Project To Date total: $32.29.

runfiverun

02-24-2012, 04:57 PM

the 40 lb pot from magma is the one to go with.
buy the bottom pieces, you can easily change it to a ladle pour,a single spout or a double spout.
it holds it's heat well. [don't change temps if you add 2-3 lbs of alloy]
holds enough alloy for a good single pot run if you want to do it that way.
is consistent in alloy spout pressure.
don't hardly ever drip.
heats up quickly,and has a dial that is settable for a pretty accurate temp indicator.
finding molds is pretty easy.
just look at mihec, noe, rcbs,accurate,and mountain molds and a couple of others i am forgetting.
and don't overlook a lee 6 cavity mold for production.
a star is great for revolver stuff and is fast.
i use mine for everything, including putting on gas checks and rifle stuff [it's not any faster at doing this though]

scrapcan

02-24-2012, 06:16 PM

And if you have an idea of what you want, put a want to buy thread up. It may surprise you what can be had right here from members or our sponsors, thanks to those who have come forward in this thread.

good point mentioned above for casting machines mentioned using single or double cavity moulds. that is something to consider for the future. Lee single and doubles will likely not work out so well for conversion to machine use.

Don't leave Saeco moulds out of the mix. They are great moulds also. Get the handles you need when you buy the mould or you will get to stare at the mould a few more days.

One thing to note is that the lee 6 cavity moulds are heads and shoulders above their single and 2 cavity moulds. The six cavity moulds also do not come with handles so make sure you buy handles.

Handles can be switched between moulds if you have compatible moulds.

As to a pot I think you should start with a good quality electric pot. You then have options on where to set up, may not have those options with one that burns it's fuel to make heat.

when you find out what size of push thru sizer you need Buckshot can make you a great one. If you buy a star lathesmith will make sizer dies for those. Both are members here.

as a side note the 5x4 was terrible but the triple stick contraption we had in a truck under a manure spreader box was way worse. And I like power steering also! Nothing like a little guy swinging on the ferris wheel meant to turn that long hooded beast with.

canyon-ghost

02-24-2012, 08:03 PM

I applaud your decision to buy the new Lyman book, still need that one myself! That's a great idea, get the roadmap first.

btroj

02-24-2012, 08:08 PM

Jammer, have you ever cast a bullet? Just wondering?
If not, the best equipment in the world is a knowledgable caster in your area who can show you the ropes. Let you try his set up, cast some bullets, size them, etc.
Hands on learning is the best way to learn. It also let's you see what you do and don't like first hand.

Bullwolf

02-24-2012, 09:22 PM

I have ladle cast bullets from a cast iron pot warmed over the kitchen stove, used an electric hotplate, a wood fire, and even a Coleman camp stove.

Another interesting option that I rarely see mentioned here is the use of a hand held fishing jig casting pot to cast bullets with, like the Palmer Lead Melting Hot Pot 2. An improved version of the traditional "electric ladle".

http://www.barlowstackle.com/Assets/ProductImages/Molds/453025.jpg

They aren't really all that expensive, (around $35 or so) and they can be pretty easy to use. The only drawback I have found when using one, is that it is smaller than using a large scale casting furnace. They only hold around 4lbs of melted lead.

Using one is very similar to ladle casting, only your ladle is now an electric, hand held sized pourable melting pot.

I picked up one many years ago at a local sporting goods store, and I was really surprised at just how convenient the thing is to use. I use it far more often than I ever thought I would to cast boolits with.

I prefer a larger bottom pour pot for sheer volume of boolits cast, but if I am only going to make a few 100 smaller weight boolits, I often use the little Palmer lead melting pot instead, to cast with. I find myself making smaller sized ingots now to alloy with, and for use in the hand held pot.

It's another handy tool to consider.

- Bullwolf

dbarnhart

02-24-2012, 10:46 PM

I'm a relatively new caster but I'm going to jump in here because there is a point that several have alluded to:

Casting is not just science. There is a large measure of art and 'craft' involved. Did you ever make bread or pasta? You work the dough with your hands until it has the right feel. Nobody can tell you the exact proportions of flour and water it takes to achieve that feel because it varies with temperature humidity and a bunch of other factors.

Bullet casting is no different. My opinion is that you should start out simple so that there are as few variables as possible, and develop the 'feel'. Without that 'feel', I fear that one would find a Master Caster or similar to be tremendously frustrating.

Jammer Six

02-24-2012, 11:14 PM

Nope, I've never cast. I came to this website because I was interested in swaging, not casting, but watching the site over time has changed my mind.

The posts that convinced me to start simple were posts 41 and 43, with the comments about watching lead change from solid to liquid, and recognizing dangers. I now see value in putting lead in a pot, (any pot) setting it on a heat source (any source) and watching it melt.

btroj

02-24-2012, 11:30 PM

Over time you will learn that even cheap equipment can make great bulelts. Better equipment may make it easier or more pleasurable but it isn't required to get a good product. In the end it is the user that matters the most.

You are a professional carpenter it seems. I can buy all the tools and spend a ton of money but it doesn't mean I can build a high end home. It is the users the tool that matters.

Jammer Six

02-24-2012, 11:51 PM

palmettosunshine

02-25-2012, 12:24 AM

I learned (am still learning) on a single propane burner (small bottle) with a homemade box around it to support my Wal-Mart cast iron skillet as I ladle cast with my Lee 2 cavity molds. I tumble lube with Lee liquid Alox (LLA) and don't have any problems. I've never sized a boolit or slugged a barrel yet don't have any problems with accuracy or leading in .380, 9mm or .44 special. Now in all fairness, I haven't shot my 44 yet.

D Crockett

02-25-2012, 12:48 AM

Jammer six you have a pm D Crockett

Buckshot

02-25-2012, 04:22 AM

Okay, step one.

I slugged the barrel of the first weapon I will cast for. With my cheap calipers, the largest measurement was .4515, but I don't believe the last decimal place, I don't believe these calipers are that accurate. So I'd say the barrel is between .451 and .452. There were places on the slug that measured .450, and even some that went down to .449, but the large measurement is the one that matters, isn't it?

If I understand everything correctly, a .452 mould is what I want.

.............Well, in a word yes you'd LIKE to have a mould dropping slugs at .452". Let me say that depending upon your alloy, alloy temp, block temps, pouring method, etc, you may or may NOT get .452". If you need .452" you might get .453" which may not be a bad thing. Remember, sizing is a step that 'may' not have to be done. You might find your pistol will shoot more accurately with slugs at .453" (or .4526, .4523, or whatever) then actually sized to .452". Don't think that you HAVE to size. Lubing IS a requirement, while sizing is not.

As I mentioned in my first post, you may simply be able to use Lee LA. I will also add that some don't care for it. It does have the negative of building up in the nose punch of your seater die, and it does cover the entire boolit, base, nose AND the sides! Cheap to try, simple to stop :-)

Back to the 'As Cast' diameter, it is possible that a .453" slug will yeild better accuracy then the .452". However you have to determine that the case loaded with a .453" slug will still easily chamber, and more importantly have enough room left in the chamber to expand to release the boolit at ignition. Lots of guys shooting 30 cals for instance will size their slugs to say, .310" even though the groove might be .308". Or even size to .311"/.312". It's usually an effort to fill the throat.

Anyway, there are variables and details that will come along, and they're all part of the learning process. Many have mentioned that some things are set in stone, and there is solid science involved, but at the same time there is a lot of art and technique too, and these only become evident in the 'Doing', and by others who've been there and done it, and have the tattered smelly old T shirt to prove it.

.................Buckshot

Jammer Six

02-25-2012, 04:32 PM

Alright, going down the list of high end mould makers, the only one that I can actually order the mould I want and have it made is Baliti-cast, right?

The others all appear to have some kind of list-wait-group-buy-when-the-music-comes-around-again-on-the-guitar kind of thing going.

And Mountain Molds wants me to draw my own mould on their cad system, right?

What (and who) have I missed?

btroj

02-25-2012, 05:33 PM

I would start with a mould that is a design that fits a specific need of yours. I look at bullet design first, maker is secondary. A very well made mould that isn't a design I can use is of very little value to me.
I think a Lee 6 cav is a great way to start for handgun bullets. They are good moulds and will produce many good bullets. Being of somewhat "frail" design in compairison to some others they also will quickly let you know if you are not keepng them lubed or are abusing them in anyway. If you can get good bullets from a Lee 6 cav then you will truly be able to appreciate the quality of a custom made mould.

I feel like a broken record player butit is the caster, not the equipment that makes the biggest difference. Most of us learned on lower end equipment than we have today, it made us better at our hobby.

tonyjones

02-26-2012, 01:07 AM

accuratemolds.com

Nora

02-26-2012, 01:48 AM

Is there anyone on this site that owns Lee equipment that has not had to deal with constant and numerous problems in order to get it to do what it is expected to do

I am one of them, at least with casting equipment. I've been using a 10# bottom poor for the past 17 years with out a problem. Sure it likes to drip now and then but I've always got a screw driver on the bench for it. Couple of twists on the valve stem once every few pot fulls to me is just part of the process, not a problem. A good portion of my molds are Lee, and the boolits that they produce are every bit as good as my RCBS, Lymans, Hurters, and custom molds. With the exception of a C312-185-R1 that was a total pile when I got it (that one was from a few years ago when they had no QC to speak of). All others have needed next to no "Leementing" if any to get them to drop nice first round boolits. (I also pre-heat) Sure the mold will gall like crazy if you don't lube the sprue plate, but with Bullshop sprue plate lube, for a couple of $ a bottle that will last next to forever, so will the mold.

There may be better out there but for the money and the results I've had I will have no problem recommending them.

Nora

Echo

02-26-2012, 02:02 PM

cbrick

02-26-2012, 03:35 PM

+1, Rick. And, if after a year of working with the Lee stuff he decides he likes the Silver Stream, he can sell the Lee stuff (or keep it for back-up) on eBay and step up to more expensive equipment.

And since that is the correct way for you to approach this it is the correct way for everyone? It is not what the OP asked about, he did not ask for the best method of buying everything twice.

It is however why there is not just one set of equipment at one given level of quality for good or bad. For some people as cheap as possible is the one and only concern. There are many reasons for deciding which tool to purchase, for many people cheap is one of the worst and is usually regrettable.

Quote from the OP in thread #1.

I have three requirements. Note that, after all the equipment I've bought, a low price is not one of my requirements. I learned that the hard way. In fact, I learned it a few times. I'll either pay the price, or I won't do it.

One, I want to buy this equipment once.

Since I'm brand new, I anticipate having problems, and I don't want the problems to be the equipment.

Two, if there is an "automatic transmission", I want it.

The top end, for me, appears to be the line between the Magma Master Pot and the Magma Bullet Master. I am not interested in the machine, but I will consider the pot. I wish to cast, not operate a fully automated machine.

Does this sound even remotely like someone asking which LEE equipment to buy?

I am not saying that Buckshot or Echo are wrong, I'm saying that they are not right for everyone, right for them probably but not right for everyone.

Rick

Bret4207

02-27-2012, 08:31 AM

It's much easier to teach a brand new apprentice on a large, powerful, cast iron cabinet saw than on a plastic Skil "table" saw from Homeless Despot.

It's much easier to learn when you've eliminated all the potential problems that you can, and isolated the skill you're trying to learn.

There's always a balance point in this stuff. You need to build trusses. Well, you can do it on the ground with ho'made jigs and a skill saw or you can do it with a 16" radial arm saw, a computer generated printout showing angles needed and a truss plant set up with jigs on a magnetic floor. Both systems work. Both are effective. The person who takes his time and pays attention will produce a quality product. I've built trusses both ways professionally. Good and bad to both systems. But putting $100K into a truss plant isn't economically viable for the amount I need. A Unisaw or whatever the top of the line saw cabinet saw is these days isn't going to teach me how to saw to the mark and read the wood. That comes from the guy pushing the stock into the blade. I agree adequate tools make everything easier, but handing a guy a $5K cabinet saw with the best fences and infeed/outfeed systems and the best blades you can buy isn't going to make him a better builder until he learns the process. And even then, there are limits to to what the man and equipment can do. This game isn't technically difficult- pour molten lead alloy into a hole. Most of carpentry isn't technically diffucult- cut board to length and angle, attach to other board. It's fitting all the pieces together in the right order and learning how to recognize that you misread 28 3/8 as 28 5/8 or that the difference between almost frosting and a little cool can mean everything...that's what no amount of money or prestige branded tool will get you.

It ain't the arrow you got to worry about, it's the indian shooting it!

garym1a2

02-27-2012, 09:09 AM

I would say to start with a Star lubesizer, here is where Iwaste the most time and I use a RCBS LAM. Get air feed and a heater option and buy 50/50 lube for the 45acp.

for the press buy a Dillon 550B or 650B.

For casting get a Lee Melter pot and a good ladle, I can make better than 800 boolits an hour with this little pot and not leaks.

I would start off with the Lee 6up molds and get a 200SWC for the 45acp. The first few months with probally trash the mold and the Lee is a good one to learn on. Once you get some experance upgrade to the better molds.

With reloading get a good powder scale and a mics.

Sonnypie

02-27-2012, 11:58 AM

Boy Howdy!
These guys can sure spend your money for you! [smilie=1:

I believe I will sit back, rock, and watch. Good luck, huckabuck. :lol:

I think you already know what you are going to do. ;)

Jammer Six

02-27-2012, 12:26 PM

As a matter of fact, I'm leaning more and more towards an Accurate 230B in brass, with four cavities.

A ladle. A pot. My hot plate. Some lead. Welding gloves. A leather apron.

That's where I think I'm going.

Oh, and I already have the press. I thought I said that I use a Square Deal.

Bret4207

02-27-2012, 12:56 PM

You aren't going to need welding gloves or a leather apron. Plain old cotton gloves and clothing will protect you just fine from any splashes. In fact cotton masons gloves with the knit wrist are about perfect.

Jammer Six

02-27-2012, 12:57 PM

I just saw the Cast Boolit apron. It'll probably make my boolits shinier.

bfuller14

02-27-2012, 01:02 PM

Jammer Six,
You will not be disappointed with a Accurate mold. Tom is
great too work with. He does his work very fast also. I ordered
several molds and had them with in a week or two.

Enjoy the ride,
Barry

MikeS

02-28-2012, 05:14 AM

After reading all the posts in this thread, I must say, first off, get a mould from Accurate Molds, you won't be sorry! Next, Jammer, you said in one of your posts that you were either going to ladle cast out of a cast iron pot or get a MasterCaster. I find that strange. You're either going to do it the most primitive method, or the most advanced, and skip anything in the middle. As I already said, get a mould from Accurate Molds, but get a brass mould, rather than aluminum. It's slightly more expensive, but brass is probably the best material for a mould!

I would seriously look into bottom pour casting. I have a Lee 20lb pot, and have never had a problem with it, but I read here that others have. You mentioned that you don't mind spending money to get better equipment, so I would go with one you already considered, the Master Pot. When I get another pot, that's what I'm going to get. With that pot, you can use it as a bottom pour pot, but you can also use it for ladle casting as well if you wish. For sizing, go with another Magma product, and get a Star sizer. You can search for them on eBay, or on the selling forum here (where they usually sell within an hour!), or you can just buy one new from Magma. Either way, the Star sizer is the way to go, don't even bother thinking about other sizers.

With the products I (and others) have recommended, you'll be able to figure out if you like casting your own boolits, or not. If you do, you'll have some good equipment that will last a lifetime or more, and if you don't, you'll have stuff that you'll be able to sell fast right here! (if you do end up wanting to sell the MasterPot, please PM me first!) :)

BossHoss

02-28-2012, 08:46 AM

Master Caster, 2 molds , 45 and 38 Sup by Magma, Star sizer and two dies. Done.

No hassle simple bullet making....PID on the pot, for science.

Exactly what you spec'd out. Live easy,...no easier solution available for the OP's specs, IMHO.

MikeS

02-28-2012, 02:58 PM

That's another advantage to getting the Master Pot, if after getting the hang of hand casting, and you feel you want to move up to a Mastercaster, you can get one without the pot, and the pot you already have mounts to it like it's made for it (because it is), and so no wasted equipment!

I really think that going directly into the Mastercaster would be a mistake, as with hand casting you'll be better able to learn some of the fine points of casting quicker and better by hand casting rather than machine casting.

You mentioned that you want to go with the 'automatic transmission' rather than the manual, and I would say that ladle casting is the 'manual', bottom pouring is the 'automatic', and the machine is hiring a chauffer to do the driving for you. That's how I see it, but again, that's a decision (ladle / bottom pour / machine) only you can make.

1bluehorse

02-28-2012, 07:32 PM

A lot of "I started with this and I started with that" going on here. Probably not to many are still using what they started with, at least exclusivley. ( I mean come on, a tin can and a teaspoon, really?) Not much different for me, started on the cheap and changed when I got tired of that ****. It didn't make casting "fun" at all. I now use an RCBS Pro Melt (mo' betta) My molds are from Lyman, RCBS, and Lee. The worst of them is the Lee molds, however, if you're willing to dink with them a little they will make good bullets but they can die young if remotely abused. The Lyman and RCBS are just good molds, and the ones I have make nice bullets. So you can start where most have started, (and advanced from) or start where most have advanced to...Your choice...but acknowledge we changed for a reason....:popcorn:

Jammer Six

02-28-2012, 08:05 PM

Here's my updated efforts. My List, v 1.0.

I've spent money on the book. I'm probably not going to spend any more money until I finish reading the book. (And it's killing me.)

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook $32.29
Cast Boolit Apron $55.00
Accurate Brass 4 cavity 230B $170.00
Hotplate $000.00

Mould Handles
Pot
Dipper
Skimmer
Sizer
Lube
Leather Gloves

Money actually spent to date: $32.29.

Projected budget, known items: $257.29.

MikeS, I appreciate your comments, and your reasoning is exactly the same as mine: no buying things twice. (You, too, 1Bluehorse.) The only reason I'm going with ladling and a hotplate is because I already have the hotplate, and I'm not going to buy an electric lead pot until I've produced some shootable boolits, and, more importantly, made a formal decision about whether I like casting.

I figure that if I don't like it, and sell everything, that I can still use the apron (assuming it's wide enough) Sunday mornings, when I dance naked around the kitchen and do the Full Jiggle Sunday Morning Pancake Boom-Boom Boogie.

I'll post more prices as I make decisions about which one I'm going to buy, and get hard prices for the item, shipping and tax. The reason I'm posting everything here is simply to document the trip, in case anyone else wants one documented example of what it cost to go from "hey! I want to cast!" to the target for the first time.

P.S. The reason I haven't decided on a full-dress Star is because it hurts me to think about spending more on the Star than I spent on everything else combined...

1bluehorse

02-28-2012, 09:47 PM

Well, you're on your way...good....it is a good hobby unto itself...however it's done.

tonyjones

02-28-2012, 10:57 PM

Jammer Six,

The part about dancing around your kitchen was WAY TOO MUCH information!

LOL,

Tony

Jammer Six

02-28-2012, 11:00 PM

Does anyone know if the Cast Boolit apron will cover a fifty inch waist?

Home is a where a man has enough privacy to run around naked with his underwear on his head.

cbrick

02-29-2012, 09:14 AM

I've spent money on the book. I'm probably not going to spend any more money until I finish reading the book. (And it's killing me.)

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook $32.29
Cast Boolit Apron $55.00
Accurate Brass 4 cavity 230B $170.00
Hotplate $000.00

Mould Handles
Pot
Dipper
Skimmer
Sizer
Lube
Leather Gloves
There is something that is not on your list and it's free and it's important. Use the link, download & print out the book. Best thing in casting since they figured out tin made the mold fill out better. This is something you'll refer to often.

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_textonly2.pdf

Rick

scrapcan

02-29-2012, 11:33 AM

Cbrick,

I agree wholeheartedly with your thoughts on reading the Fryxell book. Thanks for putting that link up for the folks here.

Jammer Six

02-29-2012, 01:42 PM

I've read it, a couple times. Thanks!

Seems sort of revolver-centric, but other than that, yes, I appreciated it.

1bluehorse

02-29-2012, 02:12 PM

Does anyone know if the Cast Boolit apron will cover a fifty inch waist?

Tarp??????[smilie=1:

Home is a where a man has enough privacy to run around naked with his underwear on his head.

Hmmmmmm..........:redneck:

Jammer Six

02-29-2012, 10:11 PM

My Cast Bullet Handbook came!

And the first thing he says, right out of the gate, ruins my plans... :(

"Perhaps the best tip any prospective bullet caster could receive is this, 'buy an electric melting furnace.''*

So standard equipment is a Pro Melt or a Magma, not my hotplate...

*Mike Venturino, Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, (Middletown, CT: Lyman Products Corporation, 2010), 28.

tonyjones

03-01-2012, 12:23 AM

Get a Waage K4757 20# electric pot. They're GREAT! The last time I checked they were $162 + $25 S&H. Since the Waage is a ladle pot also get a Rowell #1 Ladle. They're $24 at Rotometals. I'd also look into the Ballisti-Cast Mark VI lube sizer. Equipped with an air feed and heater it costs about the same ($5 less) than a comparably equipped Star and is a better piece of equipment in my opinion.

Good luck,

Tony

Jammer Six

03-01-2012, 02:12 AM

Updated list & budget:

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, $32.29
Accurate Brass 4 Cavity 230B Mold, $170
RCBS Pro Melt Pot, $379.99
Cast Boolits Full Dress Boom-Boom Apron, $55.00
Handles
Skimmer
Sizer
Sizer Die
Lube
Welding Gloves

Projected Budget: $637.28

Actual Cost To Date: $32.29

P.S. Anyone want to come over for pancakes?

Jammer Six

03-01-2012, 05:22 AM

Updated list & budget:

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, $32.29
Accurate Brass 4 Cavity 230B Mold, $170
RCBS Pro Melt Pot, $379.99
Cast Boolits Full Dress Boom-Boom Apron, $55.00
NOE Thermometer $31.00
Handles
Skimmer
Sizer
Sizer Die
Lube
Welding Gloves
Full face mask, $00.00
Granite top bench, $00.00

Projected Budget: $668.28

Actual Cost To Date: $32.29

MikeS

03-01-2012, 12:47 PM

If you're going to spend $379.99 for an RCBS pot, you might as well spend a little bit extra and get the Magma pot, it has double the capacity, and it can fill 2 cavities at the same time as well, so that should speed up casting even more than it's already speeded up by using a 4 cavity mould, rather than a 2 cavity. I mean, it's only an extra $120.00 for double the capacity!

tonyjones

03-01-2012, 06:48 PM

For another $200 you can get the Magma with a factory PID.

Tony

1bluehorse

03-01-2012, 09:52 PM

Well a guy has to draw the line somewhere......for some it's the Lee at 60ish dollars, others are willing to spend a little or a lot more. My limit, after dinking with my 4-20 for the last 5 years, was $341.00 shipped, for a new Pro Melt last month...I had a Lyman 61 for many years, replaced the wiring on it twice, gave it to a friend when I bought the Lee. The Lyman worked, I just wanted a bigger pot..could of saved myself 48.00 on that one...well, on second thought, the 4-20 is probably worth 48 dollars......[smilie=l:

Jammer Six

03-01-2012, 11:40 PM

Gentlemen, I would.

But somehow, in that way that she has, She Who Must Be Obeyed got wind of my plans, and commented that if I spent "more than six or seven hundred dollars" that there would be an ***-kicking.

So, with the budget standing at $714 with no alloy, as it is I'm going to have to buy the first batch of alloy using the time-honored, traditional method of charging it on a credit card, covering my head with my arms and running for the basement.

I think I've spent the money as wisely as I could, I've spent money to get quality in the two places that appear to me that it will really count for a newbie-- the pot and the mould.

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, $32.29
Accurate Brass 4 Cavity 230B Mold, $170
RCBS Pro Melt Pot, $379.99
Cast Boolits Full Dress Boom-Boom Apron, $55.00
NOE Thermometer $31.00
Lee press (for sizing) $27.49
Lee lube & sizing kit $18.99
Skimmer
Welding Gloves
Full face mask, $00.00
Granite top bench, $00.00

Projected Budget: $714.76

Actual Cost To Date: $32.29

btroj

03-01-2012, 11:50 PM

You won't regret the RCBS pot. Mine has been running strong for 21 years. It has many years left in it.

DaveInFloweryBranchGA

03-09-2012, 07:03 AM

Jammer,

I looked over your list and I have put some comments in red below. Some stuff for you to think about.

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, $32.29

Good book and good read, but I disagree you have to have a bottom pour pot to cast and I prefer bottom pour pots, been using one for a decade. While the guy that wrote this book is knowledgable and the book has a lot of good advice, you've received better advice on this forum from fellas who are just as knowledgeable and much more so. I've been on this forum since 2006, I own that book and have read it several times. Having sought advice here from more experienced reloaders (and followed it) My suggestion is this: Stick with the advice from the forum on the equipment. Remember, Lyman sells a bottom pour pot and like most books from a company, they favor equipment they sell.

Following the advice on this forum, I've cast thousands of bullets for pistol and rifle with great success. I agree with the group that says go basic, relatively inexpensive and see if you like it first.

Accurate Brass 4 Cavity 230B Mold, $170

While this is a very good mold, I would instead first look through the group buys for a mold you want that might be coming out reasonably soon. If there is one, waiting a couple weeks saves you better than half that price for a mold that's just as good or better, with some extra goodies included. If you're in a hurry, order a Mihec mold in brass and buy a Lee six gang mold to get you started until the Mihec comes in. You can sell the Lee mold later and recoup a good bit of your cost if you don't hamfist it.

BTW, I followed the advice of others on this board and bought Lee, but read closer and got the six gang molds back when I first bought. I bought one then, but would buy two of any size I got now. I have cast thousands of bullets with them over the past six years. If you do not hamfist them, use the bullshop sprue plate lube per his instructions, they last a long time. And they are inexpensive, so if you don't like casting, you can sell or toss, your choice. That $170.00 mold is going to be tough to turn over if you don't like casting.

RCBS Pro Melt Pot, $379.99 This is a good pot, but it is eating up a huge amount of your current budget. My first bottom pour was a 10 lb Lee and I'm still using it. I've also tried the Lee 20 lb bottom pour and it's a reasonably nice pot.

Based on six years and having tried the cheap versus the good, I'd spend my "big dollars" on a lube sizer and go less expensive on the bottom pour pot. I'd also get a quality analog thermometer regardless of brand of pot I bought.

Cast Boolits Full Dress Boom-Boom Apron, $55.00

A good investment. Since wife has limited budget, also consider less expensive ones for the "time being" until you can get back to this one.

NOE Thermometer $31.00

Always a good idea. I got my thermometer years ago from this guy:

http://www.theantimonyman.com/thermometry.htm

Visit his site and read the information that's available there. A world of good solid information. He sells quality equipment as well. I was referred there when I was new. Learned a lot there.

Lee press (for sizing) $27.49

This is where I'd spend my "big" money. I would not go Lee, I would go with either the ballisti cast or Magma/Star designs. Why here? Because I've tried the Lee sizing (doesn't lube, but is a really nice push through design) and tumbling in Lee Liquid Alox. The lube worked well, but was sticky and messy. After trying a friends' RCBS Lube A Matic, I bought a Lyman, was never happy with it, sold it and got a an RCBS. While it does the job and is inexpensive, it doesn't produce in the quantity to keep up with my casting using six gang molds. I just recently bought a Magma/Star with a lube heater and pneumatic pressure for lube to keep production. Nice thing about the Star is I KNOW I can sell it for about what I have in it. IF I put it on ebay, I can sell it for MORE than I have in it. So it's a zero risk situation. You cannot do this quite as easily with the bottom pour pots, so going less expensive there is probably a better option for you.

I don't see lube on your list. My suggestion is to go with the lubes from this guy:

http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/index.html

He makes very good lube at an affordable price - the hollow sticks are for Lyman and RCBS sizers. The solid sticks are for Magma/Star sizers. I don't know about the Ballisti Cast, but I'm betting solid for them. Down the road, you can look at making your own, but I don't know if you can make it cheaper than he's selling it.

Lee lube & sizing kit $18.99

See my comment on your Lee press.

Skimmer

For a casting pot, you can pretty much use a stainless steel spoon for this purpose. For smelting, buy a cheapie stainless steel ladle, skimmer and spoon set from a dollar store. I did that six years ago, still am using them. They work great.

Welding Gloves

One store: Harbor Freight - they have really nice leather gloves that go to the elbow. But you do not need them for casting. They also have a good variety of inexpensive work gloves of decent quality for not a lot of cash.

Full face mask, $00.00

Harbor Freight or your local safety store. I would only buy a full face mask if I planned to smelt. Safety glasses are probably sufficient for casting. Keep your body back and use your arm length. Face should not be over the top of the pot at any time if you can avoid it. Don't breath the fumes. A fan for blowing the fums away and if you cast indoors, a fume hood with fan and a feed to the outdoors is mandatory. Lead fumes are NOT good for you.

Granite top bench, $00.00

If you can get this for free or have this on hand, great. But a plywood top bench will do fine. Or a stainless steel bench or stainless steel sheet would be nice, but not required. Casting isn't something you're going to do every day. I set mine up on a Black and Decker Work Mate, the larger one with a big chunk of scrap plywood (with a reinforcing frame) clamped to it to add width. When I'm done casting, I break everything down and store it in the garage. I also smelt and cast outside, using a fan. This reduces the chance of dangerous fumes significantly and insures the safety of my family from those fumes.

Just a few thoughts,

canyon-ghost

03-09-2012, 09:46 AM

A lot of "I started with this and I started with that" going on here. Probably not to many are still using what they started with, at least exclusivley.

That's a good thought. I still use exactly what I first bought, a combination of the Lyman Master Casting Kit and a Rockchucker press. Remember that some equipment may outlast the caster/reloader man. It's just as possible to ladle up half a coffee can of wheelweight bullets for a few weekends and be WAY ahead of your shooting needs.

Good Luck,
Ron

1bluehorse

03-09-2012, 03:03 PM

That's a good thought. I still use exactly what I first bought, a combination of the Lyman Master Casting Kit and a Rockchucker press. Remember that some equipment may outlast the caster/reloader man. It's just as possible to ladle up half a coffee can of wheelweight bullets for a few weekends and be WAY ahead of your shooting needs.

Good Luck,
Ron

LOL, you're absolutley right of course. It can and has been done I'm sure. Might be kinda fun sittin around a camp fire and cast a few bullets that way, horses milling around a bit as they graze, night bells tinkling, sound of a crick rolling by. Paints a pretty picture. BUT, I wouldn't want to do it that way ALL the time...:-D

Jammer Six

03-09-2012, 05:09 PM

It's just as possible to ladle up half a coffee can of wheelweight bullets for a few weekends and be WAY ahead of your shooting needs.

Needs?

I need boolits.

Shiny, shiny boolits.

Dozens of shiny boolits.

Many dozens of shiny, shinies.

BOOLITS! HUNDREDS OF BOOLITS!

THOUSANDS OF BOOLITS! TENS OF THOUSANDS OF SHINY, SHINY, BEAUTIFUL BOOLITS!

PRECIOUS, BEAUTIFUL, SHINY...

Oh.

Please, excuse me.

Wag

03-09-2012, 11:03 PM

^^ Lost control there a bit, eh? :D

Regarding Lee products but not specific to casting equipment, I'm not a fan of their stuff. I bought their anniversary kit about 10 years ago and did pretty well with it for a while. Then the "Perfect" powder measure started spilling powder out the sides of the cylinder all over the bench. Really sucky. I finally had to pitch it. It was dumping more on the table than in the cases, fer cryin' out loud. I'd only done about two or three thousand rounds at that point.

I decided not to use anything made of plastic any more and bought an RCBS powder measure and haven't looked back for the next 10,000 rounds.

Just after the powder measure crapped out, the scale started getting wonky. It was so bad, you could tell with the naked eye that it wasn't measure the same powder twice the same way. To this day, I have no idea why it was freakin' out and no amount of effort would get it to weigh consistently. Went to RCBS once again and once again, haven't looked back since. As a matter of course, I started buying RCBS dies, just for the helluvit.

It's a brand thing. I do use a Lee press now but it's one that was given to me by an old-timer many years ago and it works just fine. Maybe their stuff from many years ago was better.

Anyhoo, I'm just not going to take a chance on Lee stuff any more. It seems like it needs replacing.

Why buy things twice?

--Wag--

joe4711

03-21-2012, 02:07 PM

I have been following this thread with great interest as I am on the verge of starting casting myself.

Here is my short list of what I think I need, I compiled this list during last week after perusing the web.

Lee Pro 4-20 Pot (Bottom pour) $57.49
Lee Lead ladle $3.99
Lee Ingot mold $9.49
Lee 6 Cav 358-158 RF $32.99
Lee Mold Handle $11.49
Lee Lube & Sizing kit 358 $14.99

Total $130.44

I have some Bees Wax on hand so I will follow one of the home made lube recipies, I have gloves, a old welding apron and a full faceguard. I also have a hot plate , turky cooker and an old cast iron pot I can use to melt down ingots or WW if I can lay my hands on some.

The above prices is from Natches Shooters Supplies and they have it all in stock according to their web page.

Book learning I will do from the tremendous amount of knowledge that can be gleaned from THIS and other web sites.

Sorry to the anti Lee Equipment guys but for the amount of plinking I do I can afford to spend some time on tweaking equipment and generally mess around with it.

If I find I don't like casting I'm sure I could sell it all here or on E-Bay.

letsmeltlead2693

03-21-2012, 02:22 PM

What good is a melting pot without lead? It's like having a car with no gas and wheels.

Certaindeaf

03-21-2012, 04:15 PM

Dipper cast out of a stainless or cast iron pot.
Lee mold(s).
Ideally, you won't have to size.
Wear secondhand leaderhosen.

Get to casting.

DaveInFloweryBranchGA

03-21-2012, 04:23 PM

Howdy,

Answers/comments on your stuff in red below:

I have been following this thread with great interest as I am on the verge of starting casting myself.

Here is my short list of what I think I need, I compiled this list during last week after perusing the web.

Lee Pro 4-20 Pot (Bottom pour) $57.49 A good choice for a starter. Before you put the first bit of lead into it, read on the forum and find out how guys polished the needle to minimize nozzle leakage. NOTE: You should only use lead you have smelted and cleaned up in this pot.

Lee Lead ladle $3.99 Just go to the dollar store and buy a set of stainless steel soup ladle and spoons. They work great for this purpose and are cheap. Especially good for smelting.

Lee Ingot mold $9.49 Good or buy/build some for 1 1/2" angle iron. These are for your smelted lead and if you have a lot of lead to smelt, you need bigger ones. Muffin pans of the right type (rusty) are good too. Do not buy tin plated ones.

Lee 6 Cav 358-158 RF $32.99 Good choice, often recommended on the board for .38/357 and the six ganger is the better made of the Lee molds.

Lee Mold Handle $11.49 You'll need one for the six gang mold, yep.

Lee Lube & Sizing kit 358 $14.99 A good way to start and find out if you like casting. I liked the push through and wish they had a way to lube and size at the same time. I didn't end up liking tumble lubing.

Total $130.44

I have some Bees Wax on hand so I will follow one of the home made lube recipies, I have gloves, a old welding apron and a full faceguard. I also have a hot plate , turky cooker and an old cast iron pot I can use to melt down ingots or WW if I can lay my hands on some.

So you have most of the stuff you need to smelt with, good.

If you're going to make lube, you may want to consider a "pan lube" for those .38 bullets and lube them just before sizing. You'll need some kind of "cutter" to cut around the pan lube. Read up on pan lubing while you still have stuff on order.

The above prices is from Natches Shooters Supplies and they have it all in stock according to their web page. Since it's Lee stuff, check out the other Lee vendors and their shipping prices as well. You may save a dollar or two. Lots of information on them in the reloading section.

Book learning I will do from the tremendous amount of knowledge that can be gleaned from THIS and other web sites.Good idea

Sorry to the anti Lee Equipment guys but for the amount of plinking I do I can afford to spend some time on tweaking equipment and generally mess around with it. Yep, another good perspective. I cast a lot more than I used to and am moving to doing more. I still use a lot of Lee equipment. It's doing well for me, letting me spend the money in other places. I'm upgrading to a Star lube sizer right now, but still use my Lee bottom pours.

If I find I don't like casting I'm sure I could sell it all here or on E-Bay.You can sell it quicker with less bs right here on the swap and sell forum. I much prefer selling to other forum members.

EDG

03-21-2012, 08:02 PM

You forgot the main thing.
All of your big spender stuff will go for naught if you start with a mold you cannot get the bullets out of easily.
Best thing to do is to bribe some one into parting with a mold that drops the bullets easily.
If you do you will think nothing to it.
If your molds do not drop easy you will hate casting.

Longwood

03-21-2012, 09:37 PM

I made these myself for casting.
The cost for each was pennies.
That spoon with the side and end ground flat is the tool that is the most useful. I use it to scrape the bottom and sides of the pot. It works great.
The long one is about 15" and it was free, I found the spoon and stick, and I had a couple sheet metal screw and some copper safety wire that I practically never need.
I just added a photo showing a spoon and handle before I put two screws through the handle.

tonyjones

03-21-2012, 11:40 PM

Get some sawdust to flux with.

Tony

Jammer Six

03-25-2012, 10:11 PM

Okay, my next question is this:

I've just realized that some molds hinge at the handle end, and some hinge at the 'tother end.

What's the difference?

Can each style be pushed off with fingers?

btroj

03-25-2012, 10:24 PM

I much prefer those that pivot at the handle end. The Lyman 4 cav I have with the other sale handle is a pain to cast with. Much of this is because it changes the entire rhythm of casting for me. In the end it comes down to what you are used to.

I don't cut sprues with a hand so I can't answers for certain but that method is more dependent upon cutting sprue while still soft that anything else.

Jammer Six

03-25-2012, 10:26 PM

Is there an advantage to cutting sprues by hand or not, or is this just one of those "however you learned" things?

runfiverun

03-26-2012, 04:05 AM

i relearned to cut them by hand.
usually a push of the thumb is enough.
i started with a ladle and two hole molds and whacked them open.

then went to a mastercaster.
figured out the bottom pour from using them.
and the glove thing come from hitting the sprue plate accidentally on the master caster.
and then i started pushing them open with the whack stick.
things just progressed from there.
there are a couple of advantages to opening by hand.
you ain't hitting the mold.
the sprue plate stays sharp.
the sprues are still hot going back into the pot.
you have a glove on and prevent burns and such.
it speeds things up you are making fewer movements.
you can use a lower alloy temp because of the shorter wait time between pours.
it eliminates the bump under a gas check.

btroj

03-26-2012, 08:24 AM

I use a stick to open the sprue but cut it while it is still a bit soft, soft enough that without a sprue plate lube I would get major lead smearing on the blocks.

Much of casting is a "do what works for you" type of thing. In my opinion if you are getting good bullets then what you are doing its "right". Much comes down to personal preferences and habits.

Some methods allow a faster pace and therefore more bullets in less time. Some methods are better for really big bullets, like those 500 plus grain 45-70 bullets.

My FIL and I have different casting preferences in a few ways. He loves HP and single cavity rifle moulds. I generally dislike both. He is retired and has lots of free time, I am working and free time is more limited for me. We each do what suits our needs. He also shoots very little handgun so volume shooting isn't an issue for him.

Find a system, and equipment, that fills YOUR needs. If you are a handgun shooter and may shoot 200 or more rounds per seeing and like to shoot weekly you are going to find a 2 cav mould is slow. It can work but can also be frustrating when you feel like you can't get ahead of your shooting.

slim400

03-31-2012, 12:17 PM

Most of the other replies you have received have been right on the money I would start with the low end we equipment I would stay away from the tumble lube molds the other thing that I would say to you is that I would take a look at some of the other equipment if you truly want this to be a one-time purchase I think you would be much happier with either a magma master caster or a ballistic cast machine neither one of these are an expense I think somewhere right around $1000 plus the mold plus you still have to come up with a way to size and lube if you're willing to look for a little while you can pick up the size and lube generally inexpensive and as long as you stay within the specs achieve given the 1 to 300 Bullets a week this equipment would be fine just so you know I started off with Lee equipment and used it for over 10 years and just recently decided to go with higher production equipment and have been very satisfied with if you are is mechanically inclined as you say my guess is you'll be just fine with the higher production equipment while it takes a little getting used to and I would strongly recommend picking up a book or two and reading about casting alloys and just casting in general it's not rocket science I hope this has been helpful

If I can help in any other way just PM me back

Slim 400

David2011

04-02-2012, 02:02 AM

Chiming in late here. . .

If you want progressive presses, I agree that Dillon is the way to go but I would not buy the 550. I've had a 550 for about 20 years. I've had a 650 for about 6 years. Ther's also a Square Deal B on the bench but I would only recommend the SDB to people who will never reload for more than one caliber on it or want a separate press for each caliber. If it didn't cost so much to replace all of my 550 conversion kits with 650s I would have 2 650s- one each for small and large primers. The reason is that I think the primer handling system on the 650 is far superior to that of the 550. This is just my opinion, based on lots of primer handling issues. I have a lot of conversion kits for the 550 that are not used very often but they do get used once or twice a year and they're for cartridges I don't want to load on a single stage press. It's my opinion that almost everyone needs a single stage press even if just for load development. I don't like developing a new load on a progressive. A single stage press is far more time effective if you're loading 5 or 10 each of several loads.

Slim,

I've had many rocket scientist friends over the years when I lived near the Johnson Space Center. A few of them are casters and reloaders. It's amazing the way a rocket scientist deals with the simplest of acts. . .

David

Defcon-One

05-29-2012, 09:13 PM

Last in. Lots of good advice in previous posts.

I'll just say this:

Dillon Precision (Progressives presses)
RCBS (Anything they make and their Rifle Molds)
SAECO (Pistol Molds)

You can't go wrong with these!

paul h

05-30-2012, 03:13 PM

Other interesting points about my intentions, in case you need more information:

I'm willing to try both ladles and bottom pour; I'm not locked into a method.
I'll be casting for a .45 ACP and a .38 Super.
I shoot about one to three hundred rounds a week.
I reload all of my own ammo, on a Square Deal B.
I'll be casting in my basement.
I live in a city.
I'd like to spend around a thousand, I can double that if I need to.
I'd rather not spend more than three thousand out of the gate.
I'll need to join a different range.
I used to carry sacks of gravel and concrete two at a time. That was 35 years ago. Now if there's weight to be dealt with, I use my checkbook.
I'm not interested in any unnecessary risks. (Splashes, burns, etc.) I wish, therefore, to minimize any chance of them occurring. I was an apprentice before fall protection became common place, and the days of "if you need a harness, you shouldn't be up here!" are over. And good riddance.

So, with this long post in mind, what would a starting list of equipment be, in your opinion?

I know that there are several custom mold makers here as sponsors, and I certainly mean no offense to any of them by asking for recommendations, but I would like to know if any of them would be better for a rank beginner than others, and why.

And finally, thank you for taking the time to listen to my requirements.

I'm coming to this thread a little late, but I understand where you are coming from, you value your free time and are willing to invest in quality tools to save you time and produce a top notch product. I think there is a learning curve in life where when we are young and don't have much money, we take whatever tools we can afford and make due with them, no matter inneficient they are with our time. Having personally used most of the products out there, and now being at a point in my life where I don't want to fiddle around with equipment that can be made to work vs. getting equipment that is as efficient as possible, I know exactly where you are coming from.

My personal recomendation for what you are looking to do is to get Ballisticast 4 cavity molds, a bottom pour furnace, (I'm using a pair of old saeco's, can't comment on the what's currently available) and a star lube/sizer with the bullet feeder, pneumatic lube feeder and lube heater. Order a dozen sticks of BAC lube from white label, and get ww ingots from whoever has the best prices you can find.

You'll still have to go through the learning curve of casting, but you want want to be upgrading your equipment to get better quality or save time later.