Pan lube first timer, question about consistency?

[mistermog]

Well first comes first... first post!

Ok now that thats out of the way, I have tried to create a recipe to pan lube some Lee 228 gr 2-lube-groove .45 ACP boolits (hehe) and having a problem.

Basically I have created a lube out of some stuff I had laying around.
1 part parafin wax
1 part petroleum based toilet bowl ring
little bit of vaseline
tiny touch of veggie oil.

Consistency when dry is firm and thick, but not grainy. The surface looks slightly greasy but doesnt mush easily at all when its cake form.

The problem I am having is that when I pop the bullets out of the lube cake 20% of them are great and the rest of them pulls the lube out of the groove. With it popped out and spread thin I can smear that little bit with my finger.

I don't know if it is just the way I am doing this, or the recipe sucks. I don't know what it should look like or feel like as I dont know anyone else that pan lubes.

What should I have as a lubecake?

[DK1911]

Mrmog:
You are a bit ahead of me, I'll be getting into pan lubing soon. I've read threads here where people size a casing, drill the primer pocket out and "cookie cutter" the lubed rounds out of the pan with it, then push the boolet out of the case through the enlarged primer hole with a small punch or nail.
DK

[mistermog]

Yes I've tried that, but want to try to figure out the push out method rather than the cutter. i did try that however, but with a 45acp case, wasnt big enough and was a total PITA.

[fryboy]

softer lubes dont tend to umm pop out as easy as say medium to slightly harder lubes ( at least for me ) i have no clue as to how you attempt to "pop them out" i like the "whack it crack it" method , with some softer lubes i have been able to do this at various temps , some after 5 minutes in the freezer , other's at room temp , "firm and thick" makes me think that there isnt much flex in your recipe , perhaps shy on "tack" factor as well , a bit of lanolin USP would add both in my humble opinion , while i've had decent luck with up to about 40-50 % paraffin i also have to keep in mind that the wax in today's bowl rings are primarily paraffin with who knows what added to help seal and add some flex , and i'm hesitant to say this but imagine that if you doubled ( or close to it ) the bowl wax it would have a lil more flex and tack , darr lube ( appox 50 % paraffin ) is also half vaseline , making the paraffin much softer , for pan lubing with it the lanolin really helped me as did trial and error of finding the temperature it liked for pan lubing , for a 45 acp the easiest way is the LLA or even better recluse's excellent recipe

for the best tutorial i know on pan lubing
http://goatlipstips.cas-town.com/panlubing.html
btw ? his recipe works fine for 45 acp's

for recluse's recipe
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=67654

[Ben]

mistermog

Your lube that you've made ( if left unchanged ) may never
respond well to the " pop out method."

If you continue using your current lube, you'll most likely need
to change over to the Kake Cutter method for removal.

Ben

[mistermog]

Hmmm yes it isnt very tacky its more of a slimey feel. Ok, I didn't know what the lube itself should be like. looks like I didnt make a popable recipe. The wax ring is a petroleum byproduct, which itself is very sticky.

Ok thanks everyone, back to the drawing board... or a lubrisizer if I can find one for sale decently. :)

[Bullet Caster]

Good luck on finding a lubrisizer for a decent price. One thing I would ask is if you heated up the boolits with the lube. If not, try that first. I've got a toilet ring flange (unused, of course) that I was going to try out to make some lube. I've used Recluse's 45/45/10 recipe with good results even on non-tumble lube type designs. The 45/45/10 is 45% JPW (Johnsons Paste Wax) by volume, 45% Lee liquid Alox and 10% mineral spirits (all by volume). After making the tumble lube, I took it one step further by taking the 45/45/10 and mixing it with equal parts of bees wax (by volume) and it works pretty well for pan lubing. Pan lubing is such a PITA that I tumble lube almost everything except rifle boolits--which I do pan lube. I had the same problems you're having with the .45 acp's. The boolits would push out of the cake but some would not retain the lube in the grooves. So then I decided to ranch dip my rifle boolits. Ranch dipping requires you to melt the lube and dip the boolits in up to the top lube groove, wipe off the bottom and set upright on a piece of wax paper. I ranch dip rather than pan lube now. It's a lot easier and without such a mess. Hope this helps. BC

[mistermog]

BC, yes I've hand dipped a few of mine and run them through a lee sizer to squeegee them. I have a hard time holding onto them and end up dropping them into the wax.

Yes I've tried both ways, heated and unheated bullets in the mix.

I think like said earlier my lube isnt sticky enough, its not shearing right maybe. I might look for something to mix in with it to fix it that I have laying around.

On the plus side though, the 100 that I've shot have not leaded. Next step is 9mm when I can figure out how to get the lubing settled.

[Freightman]

I found that all boolits will hold the lube if it is a little soft. Add some cheap axle grease to the mixture and it will soften up, you may have to leave it hot for awhile as it is hard to desolve.
Then place boolits in a flat bottom pan and pour in the lube then put in a Bar-B- and heat to 400@ then let cool. They will come out perfect, but be careful about leaving at that temp for very long as it will burn. I leave it until it just starts to smoke then turn off the grill and let cool. Leave the holes and use to set more boolits in the holes, I have a pan of lube for each size of boolits.

[mdi]

Try different cooling times to push out your bullets. Try pushing when the cake is still warm, when it's at room temp., and when it's cold. You may also try adding a bit of lanolin to make your lube "stickier. The lubes I like the best don't allow "push out" very well, so I just cut my bullets out. The cutter makes a big difference in deciding which method to use and if I had to use an empty case, I prolly wouldn't pan lube. I found stainless steel tubing and reamed the ID to a few thousandths larger than the bullet's as cast size. I made mine about 6"-8" long for comfort and they will hold 6 or 7 bullets before emptying. I also heat the lube and bullets together which helps adhesion of lube to the bullets (I place bullets in a pie tin, add "chunked" lube and put in a toaster oven at 175 degrees for 20 minutes, until the bullets and the liquid lube are the same temp. I adjust the depth of the lube to just cover the lube groove. Many times, depending on the lube, the bullets will push out using this method). When I started making lubes, I bought a few different lubes from White Label Lubes (a vendor/sponsor here) to have as examples of consistancy. Experimenting with making lubes is part of the fun of pouring your own bullets and usually the $$ outlay isn't enough to hurt if I screw up a batch...

[mktacop]

I got the info for pan-lubing from this website: http://www.lasc.us/IndexBrennan.htm

How To Pan-Lube Bullets
Any lube will work with this method. I use Darr lube for lubing many revolver and rifle bullets from 22 to 45 caliber. Darr lube is (officially) half paraffin and half Vaseline with a teaspoon of RCBS case lube. Paraffin comes in one-pound packages and Vaseline comes in twelve-ounce plastic bottles, so I mix the two containers worth and add a little Marvel Mystery Oil until the lube is a pretty pink and soft.
Bullet lube doesn't like being heated up too much, so all our heating is going to be done in water, sort of a double boiler process. I heat the lube cake pan in a frying pan with about half an inch of water in it.
Put the bullets in a cake pan of lube that is in the frying pan. When the lube melts, stand the bullets up with a pair of tweezers and turn off the burner. Let the bullets and lube cool down.
Take the cake pan out of the frying pan; let everything cool down to room temperature. The lube and bullets MUST be at room temperature before the next step.

When the cake pan, lube and bullets are at room temperature, put the cake pan in the freezer for a short time. Paraffin based lubes take about 3 minutes, beeswax in the lube increases the time required. Take the pan out, turn it upside down, and see if the cake of lube and bullets falls out of the cake pan. If it doesn't fall out, back in the freezer for a minute, then try again.

Pick the cake up and push the bullets out with your thumb.

Now you've got a cake pan of lube with holes and no bullets. Here's it is, ready for the next set of bullets. You might need to add some more lube at this point.

If the lube splits or cracks, then the lube got too cold and you must put everything back in the frying pan and melt the lube again.
Allow the lube and bullets to warm up to room temperature. The lube and bullets MUST be at room temperature before the next step. Once everything is back at room temperature, simply push the bullets out of the lube.

[turmech]

I place my lube in a round 1”cake pan (dollar store). I melt the cake pan of lube in a toaster oven on 170. I add lube until the liquid lube is deep enough to cover the lube grove of the bullet. I then remove the cake pan and allow the lube to harden. Once hardened I take a fire formed un-sized case of the caliber bullet and cut holes out (around 30) I place the bullets in the holes I just cut out and re-melt the lube/bullet filled pan until all lube is liquid again. The bullets and lube need to be heater together or the lube will not fill the lube grove. Once the lube is melted I turn off heat and allow the mixture to cool again. Once gelled and mostly cooled I cut the bullets from the lube cake with the spent case. When you find just the right consistency of the cooling lube cake the bullets cut out cleanly.

I modify the spent case I use by drilling out the primer pocket and inserting an framing nail in the hole inverted so the head of the nail pushes the bullet out of the case. I also use my case expander die to expand the case a little more than I would typically do if I were reloading.

I create a cake of lube for each caliber bullet I cast. This way the holes are there to accept the bullets in the future and I can skip the first step.