Letter to Wisconsin 4H shooting sports volenteers

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

this is a letter sent to all of us that are 4H shooting sports leaders in Wisconsin

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University of Wisconsin-Extension
436 Lowell Hall
610 Langdon Street
Madison, WI 53703-1195
608-262-1223
608-265-6407 (fax)
800-947-3529 (TTY)
Cooperative Extension
4-H Youth Development Programs
February 9, 2012



Dear 4-H Shooting Sports Leader,


Your continued support as a 4-H Leader in shooting sports is greatly appreciated. This personal commitment has allowed the Wisconsin 4-H Shooting Sports program to experience tremendous statewide growth in recent years. Supporting your volunteer role and keeping you informed of current changes are important to this continued success. One recent change in the conceal carry law has brought about a 4-H policy change that needs to be shared with all 4-H Shooting Sports volunteer leaders.

Policies of the UW System apply to your local 4-H program. Recently, the UW System created policies addressing the conceal carry law. The new policies placed restrictions on volunteers and UW-Extension employees working with the 4-H Shooting Sports program. Therefore, it was necessary to ask for a 4-H policy change.

The following excerpt came from a letter on January 20, 2012, from Cooperative Extension Dean and Director, Rick Klemme.
In response to Wisconsin Act 35, UW System issued General Administrative Policy and Procedure G51, which prohibits the use of weapons by University employees and volunteers. The policy states that this prohibition does not apply to those who have the written approval of the chief administrative officer or his or her designee to carry a firearm or weapon while on duty. I am writing to authorize the carrying of firearms, airguns, bows and arrows by University of Wisconsin-Extension, Cooperative Extension Employees and 4-H Youth Development Shooting Sports Volunteers while acting in the scope of their duties in the Wisconsin 4-H Shooting Sports Program. I am requesting that the following language be inserted in Wisconsin 4-H Shooting Sports Policy:


“As authorized by the Dean of Cooperative Extension, the carrying of firearms, airguns, bows and arrows is allowed by University of Wisconsin-Extension, Cooperative Extension Employees and 4-H Youth Development Shooting Sports Volunteers while acting in the scope of their duties and Wisconsin 4-H Shooting Sports Policy. We expect all guns for 4-H shooting sports to be carried openly in designated areas.”


University of Wisconsin, U.S. Department of Agriculture and Wisconsin counties cooperating. UW-Extension provides equal opportunities in employment and programming including Title IX and ADA.



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The letter issued by Dean Klemme has now addressed this policy and authorizes volunteers and Extension staff to carry shooting sports equipment necessary for conducting shooting sports programs. Please note the carried openly wording in the policy above. This means while acting in your 4-H Shooting Sports Leader role, even if you have a conceal carry permit, you are not authorized to carry concealed. This letter requires no action on your part. Both your local UW-Extension office and the State 4-H Shooting Sports Management Committee are jointly notifying 4-H Shooting Sports Leaders statewide of the policy change with this letter.
In the future, new 4-H Shooting Sports volunteers attending 4-H Shooting Sports Certification Workshops will be informed of this policy change as part of their certification training.

Thank you for your valuable contribution to 4-H Shooting Sports.
Provided on behalf of your local 4-H Youth Development Educator and the State 4-H Shooting Sports Committee.
Sincerely,
Doug Thompson, Coordinator
Wisconsin State 4-H Shooting Sports

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I tried to get the letter above as accurately represented as possible , if it was in bold in the letter i bolded it if it was italicized i italicized it


as you may or may not know Wisconsin after almost 2 decades of the people asking for it , it having been approved by both houses of the legislature and put on the governors desk 2 times was vetoed in past years , we elected a new Governor , and Wisconsinites won back out right to concealed carry in a decent shall issue licensing system.

the university systems deans quickly drew up a blanket statement that no employee nor volunteer of the UW or co-operative extension offices may carry open or concealed while preforming the duties of their position, they left a clause for UW police.

this letter is supposed to address their over reaching policy , actually it is the first any of us were made aware that their policy extended to us as 4H volunteers.


I have already spoken with the state director of Shooting sports , i am looking for a few things.

It is my understanding and the Wisconsin shooting sports directors understanding that no other state 4H shooting sports program in which the state also has a concealed carry law has a restriction like this.

i am looking to confirm this from those of you who are in other state 4H shooting sports programs.

I would also like to know your opinion on how to best phrase a letter to the dean as many of you are perhaps more elegant writers than myself

[kaiserb]

I tried to get the letter above as accurately represented as possible , if it was in bold in the letter i bolded it if it was italicized i italicized it


as you may or may not know Wisconsin after almost 2 decades of the people asking for it , it having been approved by both houses of the legislature and put on the governors desk 2 times was vetoed in past years , we elected a new Governor , and Wisconsinites won back out right to concealed carry in a decent shall issue licensing system.

the university systems deans quickly drew up a blanket statement that no employee nor volunteer of the UW or co-operative extension offices may carry open or concealed while preforming the duties of their position, they left a clause for UW police.

this letter is supposed to address their over reaching policy , actually it is the first any of us were made aware that their policy extended to us as 4H volunteers.


I have already spoken with the state director of Shooting sports , i am looking for a few things.

It is my understanding and the Wisconsin shooting sports directors understanding that no other state 4H shooting sports program in which the state also has a concealed carry law has a restriction like this.

i am looking to confirm this from those of you who are in other state 4H shooting sports programs.

I would also like to know your opinion on how to best phrase a letter to the dean as many of you are perhaps more elegant writers than myself

Actually many states have a provision that disallows concealed carry at sporting events (even shooting sports events). Texas handles this under PC 46.035 where it is unlawful to carry concealed at a sporting event unless the firearm is used in the event.


PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder
carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the
authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and
intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder
intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the
authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of
whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's
person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued
under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the
business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service
of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by
the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06,
Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional
sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license
holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event;

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

as Shooters , outdoors people , conservationists , 2 amendment supporters , firearms educators , and gun rights advocates, I and other 4H shooting sports volunteers are not happy with this new policy.

we could carry any way we wanted before as our ranges are private property owned by our host , clubs and associations , of which most of us are members.

the administration seems to have had little or no idea we existed , or what we did , then they tell us what we can and can not do in blanket statements that seem poorly thought out.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

kiaserb , would those laws include practices and work shops or only competition

98% of what we do is host training and workshops with live fire range time , at private ranges.
off range time is spent on wild life ecology , and safety talks , then at the end of their project the 4h shooter shoots a scored target, silhouette coarse , or round of targets.

they can go to regional competitions , but most do not.

[kaiserb]

kiaserb , would those laws include practices and work shops or only competition

98% of what we do is host training and workshops with live fire range time , at private ranges.
off range time is spent on wild life ecology , and safety talks , then at the end of their project the 4h shooter shoots a scored target, silhouette coarse , or round of targets.

they can go to regional competitions , but most do not.

The law is written that way for another purpose. Way back when, when IDPA first started folks in some states were unable to compete because it was illegal to conceal a firearm (even during a competition).

Many states adopted laws to exclude shooting sports events from the conceal carry laws thus open carry and/or carry and conceal of a competition firearms is allowed during the competition.

Workshops, classes etc would fall under different laws. For example a student attending a TX CHL renewal class, who is also carrying a concealed weapon, is required to keep their firearm concealed for the duration of the class. With the only exception being the range proficiency when they can remove their firearm from their holster, at the range, for use at the range. The firearm is simply transported in a concealed manner.

At most gun ranges in TX if you are carrying a concealed weapon you can keep it concealed (i.e. not draw and shoot or use the firearm) while at the range.

I think your case in WI, is similar to Texas in the early days when numerous accommodations had to be made for Concealed Carry. The process took several years and there are still gray areas in the law with CHL on the books since 1994-1995. In WI there are hundreds of laws, policies etc, where no one ever considered the possibility of CHL / CCW. Agencies such as 4H are now trying to figure out what to do with CHL/CCW, feedback from responsible shooting sports leaders, citizens, and gun owners will help them work through the issues.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

Kaiserb thank you , that is exactly what i am trying to do guide them in the right direction. with appropriate feed back.

we have a few key differences from what i know of your texas law

we can conceal and unconceal as we wish it does not need to remain concealed , open carry has always been legal here and it continues to be even if you have a CCL concealed carry license , with 2 major differences. the CCL allows holders to enter gun free school zones up to the edge of but not on the actual school property, and CCL holders may store ,carry or conceal their handgun in any way they see fit in their car.

non ccl holders must disarm and encase if they pass withing 1000 feet of the edge of school property whether in a car or on foot and non-ccl holders must keep gun in plain sight at all times , including in the car.

also we may go to taverns as long as we don't drink alcohol.
not going into a tavern in Wisconsin every 3rd business is a tavern they serve beer most every where , i haven't been to the mall in many years but their used to even be a place to get a beer in the mall food court. some theaters even serve beer.

[kaiserb]

...
also we may go to taverns as long as we don't drink alcohol.
not going into a tavern in Wisconsin every 3rd business is a tavern they serve beer most every where , i haven't been to the mall in many years but their used to even be a place to get a beer in the mall food court. some theaters even serve beer.

Just don't eat too many Limburger sandwiches at Baumgartner's, or drink too much Huber. Sorry could not resist, I grew up in Northern IL and my sister and her family live in Monroe. I am familiar with the every third business is a tavern.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I love a good Limburger cheese sandwich at Baumgardner's with a nice thick slice of red onion on marble rye, but sorry to tell you Huber is well not Huber any more

a Canadian kid who was having Huber make his cheap beer to export to Canada ,it started as a economics project , well it worked he bought Huber a few years ago , now it is Minnhaus

Wisconsin club was one of my favorite beers , and well the new stuff isn't Wisconsin club it is cheap beer to export to Canada , it is still the second oldest continually operating brewery in the US. it's ok i don't drink that much , i would rather spend my money on Boolets than Beer.

[429421Cowboy]

I do not believe we are under any restrictions on carry during Shooting Sports here, i do know several of our guys do. We also recently started Cowboy Action Shooting as a project to be taken as part of shooting sports, only the counties with leaders properly trained can have a cowboy action project so some counties don't have it. I do know our CBA instructors usually carry their personal guns holsterd as many kids need loan guns. Thank you for your dedication to 4-H, shooting sports was one of the first projects i took in 4-H, had to drop it because of my livestock projects and now that i'm a junior livestock leader.