230 grain .45 ACP Round Nose

[Jammer Six]

Here's what I'd like to know:

The 1911 was designed for 200 grain FMJ. It was then adopted with 230 grain FMJ.

So.

Does a lead round nose perform the same as that (or those) round(s)?

What would a side-by-side, unbiased, preferably blind test show?

Do both bullet and boolit do the same things in the magazine, through the cycle, out the barrel, down the range and in the target?

Now, I know that asking guys who have spent thousands of dollars and perhaps thousands of hours creating lead boolits to set aside their biases is asking a lot, but I'm curious what a scientific method test would show.

I'm curious to know which round does what, and why.

[RobS]

I've been able to make more accurate rounds in some 45 autos with cast because I could size them larger to fit the barrels larger groove diameter. A jacketed .451 bullet was simply undersized so a .453 cast worked much better for accuracy. Nose profile (round nose) assuming they are similar in regards to a cast boolit and a jacketed then cycling and chambering would be virtually the same.

Your question will have many answers with various remarks. Generally, considering the 45 ACP round is a lower pressure round many will see very close to no difference in comparisons between jacketed and cast performance providing they understand boolit fit. In some scenarios those that shoot commercial cast may not have as much success should their cast bullets not fit there barrels diameters (bullets are too small) and a jacketed bullet can overtake on accuracy even though both could be undersized for a firearm's barrel diameters.

There are too many variables to your question to provide a response that is definite.

[Jammer Six]

Well, answer the part you know the most about.

I'm interested in bullet vs. boolit performance in all phases of the shot: magazine, cycling, ignition, interior ballistics, exterior ballistics, terminal ballistics.

One point I see is that a 1911 cycle is a fairly violent event.

Does a round nose get dented when a jacketed bullet wouldn't?

If so, doesn't that affect accuracy?

What portion of the shot do you guys know the most about, and how does a boolit perform in that portion?

[runfiverun]

the original powder used in the g.i. loads was bullseye which is a pretty fast powder.
i have slowed down the burn rate of the powder i use in the 45 to unique, you can feel the recoil impulse difference.
i have used 200 gr rn jaxketed in the past,and 230 and 200 swc, and plated too.
i have also used cast from 160 grs to 255 grs.
the thing is even with the jaxketed i reloaded them, so i was able to manipulate everything from powder burn rate to crimp to oal to the cases i used.
so i pretty much had 100% reliability and hit the target i was aiming at.
i didn't pay enough attention to tell if the steel or paper or rocks made a different sound when i hit them.
none of my guns [or my skill level] is at bullseye winning capability.
but......

[Jammer Six]

I reload. I know what you mean about control over the load.

I'm considering casting, but I just switched from plated to Hornady jacketed, hoping to improve accuracy. I wasn't happy with the accuracy I got from plated.

I haven't really turned my attention to terminal ballistics, yet.

[NickSS]

I have shot jacketed, plated and cast bullets in 1911s for nearly 40 years and can get good accuracy from all of them. As far as terminal ballistics I have shot numerous small to medium game animals and varmints with a 45 ACP and can truthfully say that I never noticed much difference between the various projectiles used. I also shot bulls eye competition with a 45 acp and usually used 200 gr SWC bullets. Once I got the load and seating depth set and the proper magazine for those bullets they shot really well. From a rest my competition pistols would print 2 inches at 50 yards with regularity but then they were not stock 1911s. I use a lot of 230 gr RNL slugs these days and they shoot about the same as match grade FMJ factory ammo does.

[41 mag fan]

Well, answer the part you know the most about.

I'm interested in bullet vs. boolit performance in all phases of the shot: magazine, cycling, ignition, interior ballistics, exterior ballistics, terminal ballistics.

One point I see is that a 1911 cycle is a fairly violent event.

Does a round nose get dented when a jacketed bullet wouldn't?

If so, doesn't that affect accuracy?

What portion of the shot do you guys know the most about, and how does a boolit perform in that portion?

My .02 worth. I had an instructor in IDPA that told me once, what seems a very long time ago, most boolit or bullet designs in a 1911 will not be noticed on accuracy, since most encounters where the 1911 is used is 15yrds or less. With the avg and most encountered use is within 7yrds.
At 7 yrds avg, that round nose will be felt just like a SWC or HP, whether it be cast or jacketed. Accuracy will be negligible betwen any rd at that distance. It's going to do damage at that yrds, and will stop the avg person. Someone would have to be really hopped up on meth or something like that to not drop like a sock.
Just my .02 worth and to an extent what I was told.

[Shiloh]

Mine will digest everything so far. Most have no problems at all with the various round nose molds. It has been so long since I have loaded or fire "J" boolits that I wouldn't know.

Shiloh

[Reload3006]

I have not had a 1911 since the 80z (I need to get another one) My M&P and XD eat every thing I feed them. ballistically Lead has preformed exactly the same as FMJ depending upon how I load it. YMMV

[Char-Gar]

Jacket bullets an cast bullets will give equal results in the 1911 pistol in 45 ACP. Any differences can be traced back to the individual guns, loads and bullets.

I shoot cast bullets in my 1911 pistols because they are much cheaper, and much much easier on the barrels. I see no need or advantage to use jacketed bullets.

This is as unbiased as I can be.

[mdi]

I cast and shoot 185 gr. SWC, 200 gr. SWC. 225 gr. RN, and 230 gr. TC. All bullets function perfectly in my RIA 1911 and Ruger P90. In my experience cast bullets are just as good as jacketed, but, I have no experience with terminal preformance in gel or flesh. Cast bullets, because they need lube, are a bit "dirtier" than jacketed, but not to the point of being a problem. My side by side "tests" have shown no decernable difference in accuracy at my normal shooting distances (offhand @ 12 yards, and rested 25 yards). I think casting bullets adds quite a bit of satisfaction to my shooting experience, and is the reason I'll continue casting and shooting lead bullets, yep it be fun!

[fredj338]

I am not really sure what you are asking. I routinely run 200gr & 230gr bullets thru my various 45acp guns. A 225-230gr LRN will run just as flawlessly as a 230grRNFMJ if you load it correctly. Loading lead vs jacketed is a bit diff, but not over whelming. I find accuracy as good or maybe even better than jacketed.

My .02 worth. I had an instructor in IDPA that told me once, what seems a very long time ago, most boolit or bullet designs in a 1911 will not be noticed on accuracy, since most encounters where the 1911 is used is 15yrds or less. With the avg and most encountered use is within 7yrds.
At 7 yrds avg, that round nose will be felt just like a SWC or HP, whether it be cast or jacketed. Accuracy will be negligible betwen any rd at that distance. It's going to do damage at that yrds, and will stop the avg person. Someone would have to be really hopped up on meth or something like that to not drop like a sock.

Sorry, but your IDPA "instructor" really knows little of what he speaks. A lead bullet will not expand @ 45acp vel unless HP. Bullet type has little to do with accuracy @ any distance. I can get sub 2" @ 25YDS w/ lead or jacketed. A RN is a RN, lead or jacketed & unless the LRN hits bone, it's a large, smooth puncture wound. A JHP @ any reasonable handgun range, ay out to 50yds, will expand some & tear a larger hole that will not close up from fat or muscle & allow greater/faster blood loss. Nothing in a handgun can be 100% reliable one shot stopper, nothing.

[beagle]

You sure don't want much...... Given a 230 grain hardball and a 230 grain cast, there will be differences but they will be so minute to probably not be measurable.

The hardball will take more friction and thus pressure to seat and propell the bullet down the barrel by virtue of it material construction. Some gas will bleed by the bullet as we see this on recovered hardball bullets. This will reduce the pressure somehat but is probably not measureable.

The cast will not take as much pressure to seat because the lead is soft and bumps up and takes the rifling easier with less friction in the barrel. It also traps the gas pressure better than the jacketed.

Naturally, you can assume a higher velocity for the cast due to less friction.

Now, all of this is taking place in microseconds but I beleive will be felt in the recoil/functioning but may not make a noticeable difference.

If any difference, it will come in a quicker, softer peak for the cast and may trigger your mind to think "less recoil". At least firing hardball versus cast "hardball" has given me that feeling but I have never gone to the trouble of doing an identical loading test.

Now, these are some of my thoughts and I may be off somewhere in left field but that's my theories and explanations for them./beagle

[beagle]

I'll agree to that and even a large HP like a Lyman Devestator may not open at all at 50 yards at standard .45 ACP velocities. Once in a while one will but normally, they hit and the nose slumps to one side and closes. Usually, they do pretty well at 25 yards but closer is better. But, with a chunk of lead like a 230 grain .45 the fight is usually gone quickly no matter what the form of the bullet./beagle

[Jammer Six]

Interesting comments...

Getting into lead casting is a medium investment, but a larger investment would be in changing ranges-- my (indoor) range doesn't allow cast lead, and finding a range that does and then buying yet another lifetime membership adds a substantial amount to the basic investment.

So I'm considering everything I can find out, looking for the advantages of both bullet and boolit.

With jacketed, I can stay where I am, no additional range expenses, but the bullets cost about five times as much, right around twenty cents each.

With lead, there's what's adding up to be a sizable initial investment, casting equipment and a new range membership.

So in this thread, I was hoping to explore all the other differences-- the differences in the shooting itself.

Loading, feeding, shooting, terminal performance, whatever you know about, or have tested yourself.

[Bullet Caster]

I just recovered a boolit 230 gn. RN that I cast for my .45acp. The boolit hit a tree and bounced back into the driveway. After I found the boolit I weighed it and it weighed 230 gn. and was mushroomed but the base still had crisp, sharp edges and was not deformed in any way. There was no gas cutting at the base which amazed me. I wish I'd taken a pic of it and posted but, it went into the pot today with all the other boolits that I'd culled. BC

[jsizemore]

In the 1st 45 I owned, Springfield Armory, I hadn't started loading for it yet and tried a box of PMC 45 ball. First round out of the mag jammed and set the bullet back in the case. No crimp groove in the bullet. Carried the gun unshot to my gunsmith, who was a competetive combat shooter and built bullseye and combat pistols, and he went through the gun to allow me to shoot 200 gr swc's and 230gr ball. No jams but the gun was inaccurate. At the time I shot as a AAA or Master in pistol silhouette so I was pretty sure the inaccuracy wasn't entirely my fault. I carried the gun back to the smith and he gave me the line about lipstick and pigs. So I bought the parts to build a custom gun based on a Caspian slide and frame and under his supervision built an accurate gun. Shot AAA and master scores in hunter pistol with the gun shooting 200gr swc crimped into the front driving band. No boolit setback. Also shoot 230 RN crimped into the front driving band with no feeding or accuracy issues. It's still the 2nd 45 I've owned. The SA went down the road when the Caspian got finished.

[joken]

Jammer,
I haven't been casting for very long, but I can tell you to be sure and weigh in the fun factor. Casting and shooting my own boolits is a heck of a lot of fun. Ken