Blackhawk help

[Longone]

I recently bought a new Ruger Blackhawk with the 45 Colt cylinder and a 45 ACP cylinder. I am casting a Lee 255 for the 45 Colt and it's shooting fine. The 45 ACP is another story. I'm casting the RCBS 230 ball boolit and can't seem to get them deep enough in the cylinder so they don't drag on the frame as the cylinder rotates. I have them sized to .451" and they still are contacting the forcing cone in the cylinder and not allowing them to seat deep enough, what am I missing?

If I seat them so they will fit the cylinder they are .070" short from the RCBS (Speer) book. I would like to have one 45 ACP load (ammo) so I could use it in my Gold Cup and this revolver, am I asking too much?

Longone

[jblee10]

Scrub out the chambers and try again. Sizing to .451 should allow the rounds to chamber fine. I shoot a truncated cone and a Lee RNFP in my Blackhawk and I haven't had that problem. I also use the RNFP load in a Springfield XD. An option may be to have the throats reamed slightly.

[Longone]

The cylinder is (was) brand new out of the box. I tried all the chambers and they are all the same as far as not allowing the round to chamber. The driving band hits the cylinder where the case is supposed to headspace. I can't believe that RCBS boolit is that much different from other makers is it?

Longone

[454PB]

If I understand correctly, your problem is cartridge overall length. Sometimes you have to seat deeper to use a particular boolit design. If so, you then must adjust the load downwards to accommodate the reduced case capacity.

[Longone]

I guess what my question is why would the driving bands on the RCBS boolit interfere with the seating in the chamber? The driving bands contact the cylinder walls so the round won't fully chamber?

Longone

[jblee10]

If the driving bands are hitting the headspace shoulder at .451 the chambers must be pretty tight. And I take it your Gold Cup will accept the longer rounds? And the Gold Cup bullets are sized .451? To have one load work in those two guns you may have to see how the Gold Cup runs on the shorter loads.

[white eagle]

headspace on the case mouth
if the shoulder of boolit is in contact then the headspace is there
I have had the same problems either seat deeper or use a different type of boolit
once you get one to fit proper you will see

[Longone]

The reason I went with .451" sizing was because of the GC. That was having the same issue and by sizing the extra .001" it helped although it still leaves a swipe on the boolit once chambered.

Is there another boolit with a different ogive that would work better ?

Longone

[Ia.redneck]

I have the new mid size Blackhawk convertable. The 45acp cyl likes the bullets seated deep. I have the Lyman 230 rn mold. I believe the number is 452374. I can seat it normally because of the nose shape.

[jblee10]

With the RCBS 230 rn you should be able to seat the bullet so the top band is flush with the case mouth. I believe the bullet was designed to be seated that deep. That way you should have headspacing on the mouth of the case only.

[canyon-ghost]

Not a bad deal if you want them opened up. http://www.cylindersmith.com/

I ran into that on a 41 magnum. My best advice is to choose a different bullet mold for the 45 acp. It may bother you to have to change bullets but, it's the easiest alternative.

[TXGunNut]

Try a 200 gr SWC, seat it with a thumbnail's width of driving band above the case mouth. No gas checks AFAIK for that design, pretty sure a 45 ACP doesn't need them. My RBH loves them in 45 Colt cases, should be fine in your convertible. Gold Cups generally prefer SWC's as well, ball loads can be a bit hard on them.

[Longone]

Anybody shootin the NOE 453-230? Shape looks similar to the Lyman 230, wonder if that contour would solve the problem.

Longone

[2ndAmendmentNut]

The 45acp headspaces on the mouth of the case. There are two possible problems I see here. One the chambers might not have been cut right, this can be easily ruled out by trying a few empty brass pieces and see if those bind the cylinder. If the empties seem fine then the problem is most likely your choice of mold. The RCBS mold has a bit of a forward driving band which might be causing your problem. I would suggest the Lyman 452374 this duplicates the 230gr hardball profile and should work great in your revolver and 1911.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

I would like to add that I personally shoot the Lyman 452374 out of a 45acp revolver and several 1911s with great accuracy and 100% reliability.

If you would like to try a few 452374s for only the cost of shipping just PM me and I'll send a few your way.

[Longone]

2ndAmendmentNut, I suspect you are correct about the forward driving band and the shape of the nose. I have checked all the chambers and they do seem to be uniform and OK.
Of course I just cast a batch of these boolits that won't work so I will need to fire the pot up again. I tried the Lee 228 1R? and that provided the same problem with seating depth, the Lyman seems to be shaped a little differently and will most likely be the solution for both applications.

I see Lyman makes a 230 TC BB, are these type boolits meant to be tumble lubed as well?

Longone

[2ndAmendmentNut]

I see Lyman makes a 230 TC BB, are these type boolits meant to be tumble lubed as well?

Longone

Those 230gr Boolits you already have will work fine in your 45colt loads so there is no real loss there.

I have no personal experience with the mold in question but I do know that in general Truncated Cone designs do need to be seated deeper then normal or else the same problem you already have will happen. Also virtually any Boolit can be tumble lubed with acceptable results.

[fecmech]

I have a new Lipseys .45 convertible. The throat is .451 ahead of the case shoulder and therefore anything ahead of the case mouth has to be smaller than that to chamber. I've had to reseat my loaded Lyman 452460's (to flush) that were loaded for my 1911 to get them to chamber without dragging badly on the recoil shield. A revolver SWC with a slightly smaller front drive band would work great in this situation although I don't know who makes one.

[tacklebury]

My blackhawk's .45 acp cylinder is super tight tolerance, way higher than any .45 auto I've shot including Kimbers. I started running all my .45 acp's through a Lee FCD and now don't have this issue. I found it's typically bulges in the brass from loading the bullet anyway. May not be the same for you, but for $9.95 it's a cheap fix for every auto load I do now. I am getting sub 2" groups at 30 yards with my 200 gr. RNFP target loads. ;)

[Longone]

My blackhawk's .45 acp cylinder is super tight tolerance, way higher than any .45 auto I've shot including Kimbers. I started running all my .45 acp's through a Lee FCD and now don't have this issue. I found it's typically bulges in the brass from loading the bullet anyway. May not be the same for you, but for $9.95 it's a cheap fix for every auto load I do now. I am getting sub 2" groups at 30 yards with my 200 gr. RNFP target loads. ;)

Curious as to the boolit you are using. I'm starting to lean toward the Lyman 452460 as an all around boolit to use in both guns. Anyone using it ?

Longone

[Kragshooter]

I have the exact same problem, strange is that factory hardball works fine but my reloads loaded to same ol and sized same will drag. Both are standard ole round nose design and appear to be exactly the same. My reloads drop right in my gage, just like the factory ones. Bout to pull my hair out, doesn't make sense.

[Longone]

Kinda disappointed that the RCBS mold has the top driving band so far forward, in the Speer reloading book it lists that boolit for the ACP with a COAL of 1.270", you can't use anywhere near that length in either chamber unless you keep a hammer handy.

Longone

[brotherdarrell]

In the FWIW catagory, I purchased the full size blackhawk conv. back in Aug. and all I can say is Ruger got both cylinders almost perfect. So perfect that I am ignoring my crooked front sight. I am afraid if I send it back to be fixed they will screw it up. This is my second blackhawk 45. cal. , the first one had cylinder throats @ .450, this one has all throats a hair over .452, and the acp cylinder drops the Lee 228-1r into a 5" circle @ 50 yds with such consistancy that it is almost boring!!! It's a shame that these pistols are such a hit or miss situation. I feel your pain buddy.

brotherdarrell

[makicjf]

I had the exact same issues . They resololved with a trip to the cylinder smith. The throats were tight and the rounds were unable to headspace on the case mouth. I can now shoot the lee 255 rnfp and the 252 swc, both sized to .452, at an oal of 1.20 with a lee factory crimp at .469. The 255 requires a bit of thumb pressure to seat in the cylinder and I can see a "rub" where it squeezed into the throat, but they headspace correctly. For some reason the 252 swc seated with the band just deep enough in the case to taper crimp (1.20) does not rub on the cylinder walls.
good luck!
Jason

[fecmech]

Curious as to the boolit you are using. I'm starting to lean toward the Lyman 452460 as an all around boolit to use in both guns. Anyone using it ?

I'm using it in my Lipsey's with the front drive band seated flush to the case mouth. Using 4-4.5/BE it runs 800-850fps and about 2"@25 yds off the bench. Shot this target offhand indoors yesterday with 4.2/BE.

[tacklebury]

Curious as to the boolit you are using. I'm starting to lean toward the Lyman 452460 as an all around boolit to use in both guns. Anyone using it ?

Longone

I am using Dardas RNFP cast. I've started collecting stuff to try casting myself, but haven't made it too far. My wife doesn't want it inside the house/garage and where we live, you get in big doodoo for doing it outside. Some day. 8(

http://www.dardascastbullets.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=dardas&Category_Code=45RNFP

[Iron Mike Golf]

Longone,

I'd either slug the cylinder throats or use pin gauges to measure them. In the 45 ACP cylinder, since it headspaces on the case mouth, there's no "forcing cone" area in the cylinder. In rim case cylinders, there is a space just forward of the case mouth that's larger than the forward end of the throat. Some folks call this the "ball seat".

If you shoot a SWC design, seating it so the shoulder is flush will likely work. If you shoot a RN type, then the depth you need to seat will depend on the diameter of the throat.

One thing to be aware of is that the entrance of the throat is a sharp edge and too much difference between the bullet's full diameter and the throat diameter may result in shaving instead of swaging.

[Longone]

After speaking with RCBS customer service their recommendation was to seat deeper (flush with the case mouth) and put a heavier crimp on the Gold Cup loads to help it feed. They also said with the load I was using that it wasn't necessary to reduce the powder charge.

I will be taking delivery of a Lyman 452460 and after reading the posts here and on other threads I am confident that this boolit will eliminate the nonsense. The RCBS boolit is just way too short in my opinion, the forward driving band really needs to be redesigned along with the large lube groove. I don't know what the boolit was originally designed for but I think it's a stretch to think it would be a good fit in a 1911.

I guess I need to find a fit for the two molds I have.

Longone