I could use some help with 35-70 loads

[Virginian]

I've got all my components for loading my first 45-70 black powder rounds. Mt
Roughrider rifle is a Shiloh Sharps 45-70 with a 30" heavy half barrel. I'm using KiK 2F powder and my cast bullets are 405 gr flat nose. All my data books show only smokeless recipes. Can someone point me to where I might find loading info for this powder bullet combo?

Also, do I need to use fillers or wads? My book that I have "Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West" by Mike Venturino doesn't even reference KiK powder. Most of his loads are 64 to 68 gr and using wads as near as I can tell.

Thanks,

Eric

[Don McDowell]

70 grs of that powder will work fine, if you have some .030 wads, or thicker they'll be fine.

[bigted]

also your kik powder is still black powder and your need for the correct meassurment to find where the boolit will seat to will dictate how many grains your powder will need to be.

the ventorino book is a great place to start and he has described just how to meassure your powder needs...it works for all kinds of black powder. the kik powder is just another brand/maker of the same general recipe for black powder and the needs for kik or swiss or goex or any other real black powder as well as any f value whether...1-f.. 2-f..or 3-f is always the same. just make certain that there is no air pocket between the boolit and the powder.

and for wads or cards...some dont use them at all and others use a variety of stuff for their wads/cards.

another good read for loading blackpowder is from Paul Mathews. he describes his version but generally it is the same starting place as anyone will point you into. read many of the posts here on the subject as from time to time another will ask the same question...i did the same as you did and before us there were others and after us there will be more. read read read...you cant get too many thoughts for your perusal and thinking about. there are many small details that differ but the same general rules apply and then the details begin to get you to where you want to be with your rifle and its accuracy...have a ball...welcome to yet another addiction

[Linstrum]

Don McDowell and bigted have got you pretty well covered.

Standard Black Powder loads are in general pretty safe in modern Black Powder guns, so you will be okay with 70 grains for that particular load. My Lyman 46th edition lists 70 grains ffg up to a 420 grain cast lead projectile, for that load the tested pressure is 16,400 psi copper units of pressure or c.u.p. By comparison, the .30-06 runs right around 50,000 psi c.u.p.

I've never heard of KiK powder before, so I looked it up. That stuff seems to be a little hotter than Goex and Elephant. Even though it is a little hotter, you should be fine using Black Powder loads listed for .45-70 in a loading manual from a reputable supplier or manufacturer. Just be sure and use the correct granulation, don't swap fffg for ffg.

I'm not being condescending, I give this warning to all new Black Powder shooters. If you don't have a lot of reloading experience yet, be aware that most smokeless powders are also black in color and some of them are darned hard to tell from old fashioned Black Powder just by looking, so be darned sure not to accidentally load up some black-colored smokeless powder in a Black Powder only gun. Old fashioned Black Powder does not easily generate dangerously high pressures like smokeless powders do, so smokeless powder in a Black Powder gun is not a load, it is a BOMB!

rl 1072

[NickSS]

There is no way that you can over load a 45-70 with black powder. I usually start by prepping 50 cases and loading different loads in groups of 10 rounds. The first 10 with the powder level just sufficient so as to leave no air gap then increase the powder for the next 10 by a couple of grains and so forth until the last 10 rounds has a substantial compression. Then I go to the range and fire them in groups of 10 rounds and see how they shoot and clean after each 10 round string using a blow tube for each shot to keep fouling soft. You will find that one of the loads or perhaps two will shoot better groups than the others. Mark that load down for further testing. Once you find a load you like stick with it.

[Virginian]

Very helpful gents. Thank you very much.

Eric

[MikeT]

Virginian,

If you really want to know which is the best load, wipe the bore between every shot to keep the barrel condition the same for every shot. Also, 50 rounds is a lot of testing, be careful about how hot your barrel gets. Some barrels get irratic when hot, and the fouling gets baked harder.

When I test loads I will shoot one round out of each group that I intend to test just to get the barrel warmed up.

My 45-70 LR rifle will not settle down until the third shot from a clean barrel, and I wipe with two damp patches between every shot.

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT