best boolit for 45 ACP

[turmech]

Relatively new to casting. I have developed cast rounds successfully in 38, 357 mag and 44 mag. I am now moving to 45 ACP for a 1911.

I am looking for mold suggestions with ease of loading and accuracy in mind. I am leaning towards a RN 230 gr bullet with a true lube groove, I am open to suggestions though. As of yet I have not tumble lubed and I don't think I want to at this time. I am looking for a mold that is readily available.

Thanks for any help.

[btroj]

It is pretty hard to beat the Mihec 200 swc. Cast like a charm, shoots great.

Look in the vendor sales area, I think he has some on hand right now.

Others will have suggestions buti doubt any will say a 200 swc is a bad choice.

[Shiloh]

I don't think there is one boolit that will be the best for every firearm. There are several boolits that work very well for me. The LEE 228 gr. RN double groove is one of them. Same with the 200 gr. SWC and the 200 gr. TLSWC. No issues at all.

Shiloh

[btroj]

Shiloh did make one very good point, there is no "best".

The bullet design needs to match the desired use. In the end it is up to the user to decide the "best" for themselves.

[MtGun44]

H&G 68 or clone. Feeds perfectly if loaded properly, 1.250" LOA and moderate TC. TC is critical. Lyman
452460 is also excellent, but a bit more likely to have feeding 'issues'.

Bill

[Bullet Caster]

Personally I use the Lee 228 gn. 1 ogive radius. It really shoots well out of my Norinco 1911 and looks just like a hardball round only lead. I just recovered one of my shots--it was laying in the driveway after it had bounced off a tree I was shooting at. The boolit mushroomed quite well and retained all of its weight as I weighed it after recovering it. I would hate to get shot with that round. What works best for one person might not be the same for someone else with a different weapon. I can only report on what I use. BC

[turmech]

Maybe instead of best I should have titled "best one to start with".

what is a good clone for the H&G 68? I am not familiar with that mold. The feed issues are what I am trying to avoid.

[MBTcustom]

In my experience (shooting many 1911's amd clones) the 230 grain round nose boolit is the only one I would claim that will feed perfectly in any .45acp. Most pistols will shoot SWC with out a problem but I have found two that needed ramp modification to get them right. I agree that H&G makes the best boolit for .45 but my vote goes to the 34 not the 68. I have a lovely H&G mold that casts two of each every time the blocks open :mrgreen: but I have had some guns that choked on the 68.
Right now, for the money, I would go with the Lee 6 cavity TL452-230-2R
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/148534/lee-6-cavity-bullet-mold-tl452-230-2r-45-acp-45-auto-rim-45-colt-long-colt-452-diameter-230-grain-tumble-lube-2-ogive-radius
You can cast 1000 boolits in 2 hours with this one, it loves 45/45/10 and it feeds great in most everything. (I have only owned this one for 5 years and it has worked in every .45 I have tried it in so far) Its actually one of my very most favorite molds. All the boolits drop like water except the third cavity from the back. That one always hangs a little just to let me know it loves me too.

[blikseme300]

I use the Lee 452-230TC boolits in my stock Colt's. Never had any feeding or other issues. Holes appear on targets where I aim.

Bliksem

[geargnasher]

Neither I nor any of my .45 automatics like the Lee 228 1r, the nose is too short and fat, and the ogive is all wrong. You have to seat them really deep to get them to chamber in pistols with short throats, then the COAL is so short the cartridges hammer in the magazine.

I second the suggestion of the M&P copy of the H&G #68 for a light target boolit, all my guns feed it flawlessly although I'm sure there are exceptions.

Personally, I wasn't happy with any of the available 230-grain designs, so I developed my own and it's available at Accurate Molds (dot com) as the 45-230L. Tom also has various other excellent designs and can have a custom mould in steel, brass, or aluminum made to your exact size specification in up to four cavities inside of a couple of weeks.

Gear

[turmech]

I checked out the M&P site I saw the H&G clone and their .452HP-200 Cramer style (which I really like the looks of) problem is they were out of stock.

I visited Accurate Molds and the 45-230L looked like what I had in mind. I may have to revisit the site.

My dilemma is all the lee molds that are not tumble lube (really don’t like TL) look to need to be seated too deep. And I have heard the new Lyman mold being made are running underside from the factory.

[turmech]

meant to say undersized (.451)

[geargnasher]

Some of the Lyman .45 moulds are running .449-450" and their corrective services are spotty at best. Not worth the headache IMO.

You might also look at the AM boolit that ColColt posted about here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=143941, he put up a very nice picture of it, and if you like a single lube groove and no step at the nose it's the one to get.

I put the step from the nose base to the first band for my Kimber which has a habit of going to premature slide lock with fat-based boolits. The center drive band is narrower than the diameter of the lube holes in Lyman H&I sizer dies so you can center the band on the holes and lube both grooves with one row of holes. I plug all the holes below the top row to keep the bases clean. The tiny shoulder cuts clean holes in the target, and they shoot very straight in three different autos, so I'm very pleased with it and would recommend it to anyone wanting a full-weight automatic boolit.

Here's how they look in full dress:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=28901&d=1296091775

Gear

[MtGun44]

H&G 68 is THE standard SWC round that has been used by the MILLIONS for IPSC competition
and bullseye competition for the last 50+ yrs. It will feed in any 1911 made in the
last 25 yrs, although pure stock unmodified WW2 guns will likely require some simple
throating of the barrel. They run 200 gr and have a shape which puts the 'corner' on the
same point that the mil ball round will hit the feed ramp and therefore, it pretty much
feeds like the ball round.

Bill

[turmech]

geargnasher

that will be a tough choice between yours and colcolt.

[MBTcustom]

Something else I thought I might mention (some may think differently and you may already know it) dont crimp in the same operation that you seat your boolits in. Seat your boolits first and use the die to just start ironing out the rim flare, after the boolits are seated, follow with the taper crimp. I dealt with shaved lead on the rims of my brass for years before I realized that with cast boolits, seating and crimping needed to be done in two operations. Works like a charm.
By the way, the two guns that had trouble with the H&G 68 were a mil-spec 1911 clone made in the Philippines and an IAI Hardballer longslide. I still have the long slide and it doesn't like anything but RN 230grain (and I have tried several top end magazines).
Its just my opinion, and I'm sorry its different than the MILLIONS of folks who never shot these two guns, but not all .45s are created equal.
Also, IPSC competition and bullseye shooters probably know a thing or two about tuning a .45 to run like a sewing machine. I thought it best to relate my experiences FWIW.
I also had a 230 grain RN (sorry got rid of that mold) that had a shallower radius on the nose (ie it was pointier) that didn't feed well in the hardballer.

[geargnasher]

Hey, what ever works, no matter! No way to argue with success.

Personally, I don't crimp .45 ACP, I only set the seat die to straighten the bellmouth out, not turn it in. This prevents boolit swage and enables me to seat and "crimp" in the same operation. With the .40 I find I have to seat and crimp in two operations because I DO have to actually form a little taper on the front of the case for reliable chambering with boolits fat enough to not lead, and it DOES swage the back half of the front band a little bit, but it's a worthwhile trade-off. It shaves lead if I try to do it all at once. For revolvers, I have to do it in two steps if I want a tight crimp in the groove, or any time I'm roll-crimping in a groove.

Gear

[runfiverun]

lyman makes a copy of fmj boolits in one of thier molds i don't recall the number as i donated the nib one that i had as a sight benefit a couple of years ago.
i got rid of both the H&G 68 copy, and 230 rn magma mold [similar to the one gear shows] i had.
and use the lyman 4 cavity 452460 short nosed 200gr swc as both my 1911's [one a norinco and the other an auto ordinance] and my dads colt would feed them fine.
they'll also feed a 225gr rnfp my 452664 250gr,and my 160gr rnfp so it's hard to base other guns off them.
if i wasn't sure what to get i'd get either the H&G or a 230 rn mold.
both with a single lube groove.

[Max Brand]

In my experience (shooting many 1911's amd clones) the 230 grain round nose boolit is the only one I would claim that will feed perfectly in any .45acp. Most pistols will shoot SWC with out a problem but I have found two that needed ramp modification to get them right. I agree that H&G makes the best boolit for .45 but my vote goes to the 34 not the 68. I have a lovely H&G mold that casts two of each every time the blocks open :mrgreen: but I have had some guns that choked on the 68.
Right now, for the money, I would go with the Lee 6 cavity TL452-230-2R
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/148534/lee-6-cavity-bullet-mold-tl452-230-2r-45-acp-45-auto-rim-45-colt-long-colt-452-diameter-230-grain-tumble-lube-2-ogive-radius
You can cast 1000 boolits in 2 hours with this one, it loves 45/45/10 and it feeds great in most everything. (I have only owned this one for 5 years and it has worked in every .45 I have tried it in so far) Its actually one of my very most favorite molds. All the boolits drop like water except the third cavity from the back. That one always hangs a little just to let me know it loves me too.

My findings are the same as yours on the Lee TL452-230-2R, they are the only Lee round nose design that feeds in all of my 1911's, even the 3 1/8 incher likes them. My preferred Lee design is the TL-452-230TC.

[Shooter6br]

The 1911 was designed for 200 g bullet. The powers that be wanted the 230 grainer

[MikeS]

If you're looking for a round nose standard lube groove boolit, the H&G #34 is hard to beat. Right now NOE has his clone of the H&G #34 back in stock, check in the vendor support forum (or is it the vendor sales forum?) for a message about what options he has available at the moment. Stay as far away from the Lee 228gr boolit as you can! The only Lee round nose that's any good for a 45 is their 230gr tumble lube boolit, it's very close in shape to the H&G #34, but with tumble lube grooves instead of a standard lube groove.

I have a question for the OP, how are you sizing your boolits? If I didn't have any 45 cal boolit moulds, and I wanted one to start with, I would get the Lee 230gr TL design, and a Lee sizing kit in the proper size for your gun (probably .452 or .451). While you say you don't want to tumble lube, there's really nothing wrong with it, and in the 45 where lube requirements are not as critical as in some high velocity rounds like the magnums, tumble lube works fine. I have a Star sizer, yet still have & use several tumble lube designs, and I still tumble lube them as well.

[MBTcustom]

Also dont give up on tumble lube till you try 45/45/10. Its a whole different ball of wax.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I use 5 bullets for 45ACP in two semi-autos and two revolvers; all for target and BE comp. H&G...#'s 34,68, 130, 78. The 5 th mold is an RCBS 45 roundnose which is a clone of the 34. All are of the correct size, cast well, feed well and shoot well. LLS

[Blammer]

this is a pretty good one.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=1411056#post1411056

[turmech]

The two calibers I currently cast for (44 & 357) I size with the lee kits. The 44 was near perfect as cast for my gun but I now size them as well.

I currently have 2 unopened contains of lee lube which came with the sizers. I will have another once I purchase a .452 kit. Some day I may use it but for now I am extremely pleased with pan lubing. I have several cakes of lube in each cal and use a spent, extra flared case to cut them form the cake. I have a toaster over in the work shop for this procedure. This has been very clean and fast in my limited experience. For now, for me this seems to be the best way.

[MBTcustom]

this is a pretty good one.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...56#post1411056
Now thats my kind of boolit!

[Matt_G]

Like LLS said, the H&G 130 is a good one as well.
It usually feeds well in most guns but that isn't guaranteed.
BTW, the Lyman 452488 copies the H&G 130 almost perfectly.
If you can find a good used one, snatch it up.

[MtGun44]

IME, H&G 130 is a very unreliable feeding design, WAY too short for .45 ACP in semi
autos, and not more accurate than the H&G 68, which is why the 68 essentially eclipsed
the 130 and Lyman copycat. The 68 is a near 100% feeder and 130 more like 40-60%,
depending highly on gun, springs and mag design to be fiddled into reliability, and even
then not 100%.

Oh, and my def of "100% feeder" is 100% function in near 100% of the guns out there
with normal loads and normal springs and normal mags.

Bill

[MBTcustom]

Hmmm, I might have to give the 68 another go.

[Artful]

I have quite an assortment of 45 caliber molds that I have used in my 1911's from 185 to 255 grains from SWC to RN to FN - Most used is 200 grain SWC designs - second most used 230 FN.

452460 Lyman or H&G 68 are both good choices for first bullet mould.

[MikeS]

Well, as you're using Lee sizers, and will be getting yet another one, it wouldn't cost you anything to try tumble lubing some boolits. The reason I go back to it is because if you want to get a good round nose design on the cheap, nothing can beat Lee's 230gr round nose tumble lube boolit. I understand you you're currently happy with pan lubing, and there's nothing wrong with it, I'm just saying don't write off tumble lubing. If you get the Lee 6 cavity mould, you'll be able to crank out LOTS of boolits pretty quickly, and other than the wait while the boolits are drying, tumble lube is one of the fastest ways to lube a large quantity of boolits, and you're already three fourths of the way there, all you need is some wax paper, and you'll have everything you need!

I'm not trying to push tumble lube on you just for the heck of it, but because the Lee 230gr TL boolits is such a nice design that it's worth trying a new lube method. As I said before, even with owning a Star, I still use tumble lube & tumble lube boolits.

[ColColt]

Hmmmmm...that link didn't work for me. I got a "Sorry wrong page..." Oh, well.


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...56#post1411056

Without controversy, one of the top greatest boolits for paper punchin' is the H&G #68. I bough one of Miha's clone versions and the mold and boolits and hence, the targets have been superb. I lately bought one of Tom's 45-230M molds and have cast about 250 so far but haven't gotten to the range yet with them.

[skeet1]

I agree with Artful but would use the Lee 6 cavity452-200 SWC with the regular lube groove. The mould works great and does not cost as much as a Lyman or HG, it also can turn out a lot of bullets in a short time.

This bullet also shoots very well, I was not sure I liked the length of the nose portion but when it's loaded and put into a 1911 magazine it's overall length is closer to that of a hard ball round and to me it seem to function better than my 452460 Lyman. Maybe it's just me.

I also have shot the RCBS 230 gr. RN and the Lee 452-228 RN and the Lee 452-230 TC and to me if your going to do a lot of shooting the 200gr. SWC's are a lot more pleasant to shoot.

Ken

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I agree with goodsteel. When I was youg and really stupid, I obtained a Model 1911 through the DCM. When it arrived , it turned out to be a WW1 issue made by Colt that was in excellent condition. It was the only Model 1911 or copy that I have owned that would feed any lead bullet that was not a round nose design. It fed the SWC design without a hitch. It did not make an impression on me at the time. As I said before, I was young and stupid. I traded it. I tried polishing the feed ramp on others I have owned but it didn't help. I have hundreds, perhaps thousands of cast and lubricated .45 SWC bullets that I don't bother to load. Mind you, I did not cast the bullets myself. I'm not that stupid. They came with other reloading gear that I bought. I did load two boxes of SWC bullets and most of them remain unfired. They would not feed. I loaded the pistol one round at a time and fired the pistol as a single shot. Talk about progress. If you wonder why I don't pull the bullets and reuse the lead and cases, the answer is, I don't want to take the time and I don't need either. I have more brass than I could ever use and even more lead than I have years left to cast. At this time I don't want to sell it either. When my current 1911 clone is the loaded house gun, it is loaded with full metal jacketed hardball. They work.

[DCM]

The 1911 was designed for 200 g bullet. The powers that be wanted the 230 grainer

YUP! A fact that many choose to ignore or think that because the 230is standard mil. issue it is the standard. MY 1911 prefers the 200s YMMV

[moptop]

Here's the boolet I use, Lee's 230grn TL. I shoot it in my Kimber Royal II. My brother also shoots it in his Colt GC National Match. Yes, it's a tumble lube but it performs flawlessly in both pistols. I've have no issues with leading using the ALOX on these.

[Jammer Six]

Gopher Slayer, I didn't understand most of your post, and I'm not sure what your point is.

[462]

"I am leaning towards a RN 230 gr bullet with a true lube groove . . ."

Have you looked into Lyman's 452374? It's compares very favorably to a standard 230-grain round nose bullet. Plenty of used moulds available, if you are leery of new, and it's available in a four-cavity version, too.

[MBTcustom]

Moptop, that is some good photography! It looks like the boolit is sitting on an alter in one of the great pyramids. What is that thing anyway?

[MikeS]

I'll bet that 230gr boolit is sitting on top of a wine cork. And if it's lubed, and ready to go, then it was lubed by somebody that knows how to tumble lube! Properly done it should be hard to see the lube in a picture, not like some people that after they're done tumble lubing a boolit it looks like it went for a swim in LLA!

[AR-15 Cowboy]

I cast a Lee 228 for my Taurus PT1911AR. I don't crimp per se but put a light flare so it seats properly. My son shoots these for target practice. The mold casts nice boolits and I like it.

[Lizard333]

"I am leaning towards a RN 230 gr bullet with a true lube groove . . ."

Have you looked into Lyman's 452374? It's compares very favorably to a standard 230-grain round nose bullet. Plenty of used moulds available, if you are leery of new, and it's available in a four-cavity version, too.

I have both the two and four cavity version of this mold and I love them both!!

I was reading this while thread and was wondering why no else suggested it. 4.6 grains of 231 gives me excellent accuracy and very reliable function. You won't be disappointed.

[geargnasher]

YUP! A fact that many choose to ignore or think that because the 230is standard mil. issue it is the standard. MY 1911 prefers the 200s YMMV

My milage DOES vary, because all of the .45's I've ever purchased new were sprung for factory level, 230-grain bullets, because that's the accepted norm for many manufacturers. Unless I use a lighter slide spring, I have to load the 200s fairly hot and with a fast powder to get reliable cycling, and I DON'T "limpwrist" it, either. When I think 200 grain, I think light, comfy, shoot-all-day loads, but that requires, for me at least a spring swap. I know, WAAAAAH!, 15-second change, right?

Gear

[41 mag fan]

Some of the Lyman .45 moulds are running .449-450" and their corrective services are spotty at best. Not worth the headache IMO.

You might also look at the AM boolit that ColColt posted about here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=143941, he put up a very nice picture of it, and if you like a single lube groove and no step at the nose it's the one to get.

I put the step from the nose base to the first band for my Kimber which has a habit of going to premature slide lock with fat-based boolits. The center drive band is narrower than the diameter of the lube holes in Lyman H&I sizer dies so you can center the band on the holes and lube both grooves with one row of holes. I plug all the holes below the top row to keep the bases clean. The tiny shoulder cuts clean holes in the target, and they shoot very straight in three different autos, so I'm very pleased with it and would recommend it to anyone wanting a full-weight automatic boolit.

Here's how they look in full dress:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=28901&d=1296091775

Gear


Nice looking loads and cast there Gear

[MBTcustom]

Hey Gear, Is that an AM design? You didn't actually say where you got that mold. Maybe a 45-230L?

[geargnasher]

Thanks .41 mag, just mixed range brass and wheel weights.

Goodsteel, you are correct, AM 45-230L, I mentioned that in post #10, but that was a while ago.

Gear

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Jammer Six, perhaps---if ---I typed ---more ---slowly. Here goes.--- I ---have ---only---owned ---one ---model 1911---or clone--- that ---would ---feed--- any---cast--bullet---that--- was ---not--- a round---nose---design. ---That---being ---the ---case---I use---only---millitary---hardball---for---home --- defense---in---my---current---model 1911.---Clone--- Comprendo?

[MBTcustom]

Sorry gear, I missed it.
GOPHER SLAYER, I still didn't get it.:kidding:
FWIW based on this discussion, I fired up the 'ol lead pot and dug out the 'ol H&G and a Lyman mold that was recut to a 452 semi wadcutter.
I stabbed them into some brass and tried them in my carry gun (3.5" rock island 1911 that so far has eaten everything I have fed it.)
I loaded up a mag with the 68s and cycled them through the gun. I did this twice and 50% of them jammed. I did the same with the lyman style with similar results. Then I tried locking the slide back and using the slide release to slam them in the chamber. Results were better but I still had a few problems. I disassembled the gun and dropped the rounds in the chamber just to make sure that I didn't make a mistake with the loading. No problems, they were all made correctly.
Honestly, this is exactly what I remember from years ago when I tried this before and why I have 230gr RN stuck in my mind. I am willing to change, heck thats why I'm here, but I must be doing something wrong.
I made up 50 of each and next time I get around to it, I will test them both for real.
You guys would whip me with a knotted plow line if you saw the condition of that old H&G. Totally masked over with lead, dings on the sprueplate from whacking it with something I wasn't supposed to, (I honestly dont remember doing that), and all over bad shape. Thank goodness there was no rust. I cleaned her up real good, and carefully stoned off all the dings. It sure wasn't any worse for wear though, it cast like a champ and the boolits dropped like water every time I opened the mold.

[Jammer Six]

Nope, didn't help. It just added a bunch of dashes.

Is English a second language?

[btroj]

Be nice gentlemen, no hurling insults.

I only have one 1911 I have loaded for, my Colt Gold Cup. So far it has fed fine with 230 RN, HG 68', HG 130, the Lee 200 swc and the Lee 230 TC. What this tells me is only that my gun and magazines feed fine with a variety of bullets. I will not try to extrapolate that to all other gun/magazine combinations.

The OP wanted to know a good bullet for general 45 ACP use, I listed a 200 swc because that works well for me. In the end it will be up to the OP and his guns to decide what they like.

[Jammer Six]

When you load the LSWC, if you were to chamber a round, and then eject it, would the boolit have been damaged from chambering?

That is, would it have been dented by hitting the feedramp, or from anywhere else on its path into the chamber?

If so, doesn't that mean that lead boolits are damaged before they are fired?

[jsizemore]

So? If all the boolits are loaded the same and fed from the mag the same then the damage is the same and oriented in the same spot so they will act the same when shot, so what? If you think there's an issue with this then go to a Bullseye match and see what their shooting.

[moptop]

Goodsteel, thanks for the cudo's on the photo. That thing is the rubber end off of a spring loaded curtain rod. It actually goes on the rod in the window behind my computer desk. It's been sitting next to my monitor base for months now. I guess I should put it back on the rod.........someday.[smilie=l:

[Jammer Six]

So? If all the boolits are loaded the same and fed from the mag the same then the damage is the same and oriented in the same spot so they will act the same when shot, so what?

It doesn't happen to jacketed, because the jacket it harder.

Bullseye shooters shoot jacketed around here. Perhaps for this very reason.

Now have a seat.

[jsizemore]

Seems I have a book here that has loads from past National Champions that all shot cast banged around in their pistols.

Maybe the jacketed bullet shooters didn't show up for those matches?

[geargnasher]

Sounds like some people need to do some spear-mentin' on their own and see just how much nose damage from recoil in the magazine or feed ramp affects accuracy.

Gear

[btroj]

Bullseye shooters around here shoot 230 round nose jacketed a lot too. This is often because they shoot CMP service pistol and that is the required bullet!
Making assumptions based pon observation rather than asking questions is a bad way to go.
Is there a bit of nose damage? Yes. Is it relevant? Nope.

We an argue all day long about these issues. In the end each of us needs to decide what we like using and what works for us. I am yet to find a bullet I can't get to work in my 1911. Maybe I have made good choices in the 4 cast designs I have used?

[turmech]

"I am leaning towards a RN 230 gr bullet with a true lube groove . . ."

Have you looked into Lyman's 452374? It's compares very favorably to a standard 230-grain round nose bullet. Plenty of used moulds available, if you are leery of new, and it's available in a four-cavity version, too.

this was actually my first choice then I heard a lot of talk on this site and other places that new Lyman molds tend to cast smaller than stated (less than .451). I didn’t want this problem. I have purchased several used molds before and my chances of getting junk has been around 50/50.

I have actually purchased a 452-230-TC and I borrowed a 452460. I will see what happens. Thanks for ever ones help.

[gl89aw]

I have used the Lyman 452460 200 grain swc for close to 40 years with good results, very few failures to feed.

[Artful]

For starting powders in 45 ACP I used Red-Dot, Bullseye for target loads and Unique for heavy loads.

[AR-15 Cowboy]

I once bought a bunch of brass .45 ACP with small pistol primers from Spear. This is where the fast burning powders like Bullseye work the best.

[MtGun44]

I agree that the 452460 is a great design and is highly likely to feed well. However, it is
just a touch less reliable for feeding compared to a real H&G 68 or an accurate clone - which
the Lee standard 200 SWC mold is NOT.

No doubt that the Lyman 452374 is a good design, accurate and pretty much the ultimate
in feed reliability in most guns, but really, the H&G 68 loaded to 1.250 LOA and a moderate
TC will match it for reliability in the overwhelming majority of modern guns that are throated
from the factory, and saves around 15% of your lead and cuts nicer holes in the target.

Bill

[Grapeshot]

The 1911 was designed for 200 g bullet. The powers that be wanted the 230 grainer

That was to duplicate the old .45 Schofield balistics and add a little more stopping power on the Moros in the Philippines.

[MBTcustom]

Huh, you learn something new every day. Thanks for that bit of history there Grapeshot!

[MtGun44]

Yes, that was the previous iteration of fighting with Muslim fanatics. The new .38 revolvers
were not stopping them, and they reissued the 1873 SAA pistols in .45 Colt right away. Then
they remembered that when specifying the cartridge for the new semiauto pistol competition
that was won by the Colt 1911 designed by JB himself.

Bill

[Jammer Six]

MtGun, we are not fighting any muslim organizations.

Your bias and your fear is showing.

[DLCTEX]

Al Queida and Taliban are what? Whose bias is showing?

[Jammer Six]

Line forms to the left, gentlemen.

Have your fears, ignorance and biases out and ready for inspection.

Then wait right there. Stand quietly, say nothing. Someone will be with you shortly.

[Jammer Six]

Well, after arguing about it with my wife, it sounds like both organizations do, indeed, claim to be Muslim, and meet at least one interpretation of that definition.

I'm willing to split the difference. I will concede that Al Qaeda and the Taliban are technically Muslim if y'all concede that the Klan is Christian.