Cast Boolits in 45ACP

[Wayne74]

I have a series 80 Colt Goverment model and I would like to cast and load some SWC 255 gr Boolits. Is this practical? Will they feed ok?

Thanks for your help.
Wayne

[nicholst55]

I once bought a bunch of Hornady 255 SWCs for a ridiculously low price, and shot them trhough a 1911. They worked fine, even though I had to SWAG (Scientific Wild-*** Guess) the load data.

[tek4260]

I shot various 255's and a 276gr SWC in my 1911 and they all were shockingly accurate when loaded over 5.5gr of Unique. Have not had a single failure. I am running a flat bottom FP stop, 20# mainspring and full length guide rod.

[stubshaft]

I've shot more than a few 250's for pin matches.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I would like any load data for Alliant powders such as Unique, Bullseye, etc. with 454190 in ACP cases. I cast and shoot 454190 in revolvers most commonly and would like to try the boolit in the 1911.

[Char-Gar]

Q. Do some people shoot 250-260 grain SWC in 1911 pistols?
A. Yes
Q. Have I done so?
A. Yes
Q. Would I recommend others do so?
A. No
Q. Is 454190 a good choice for use in a 1911 pistol?
A. No way!
Q. Do I think anybody will pay attention to the above?
A. Nope
Q. Then why did you post it?
A. Hope springs eternal.

[Rico1950]

Lee 452-255-RF works well.

[tek4260]

Here is where I was asking the same thing

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=137057

[tek4260]

Note that on mine, the leade is very short and causes me to have to seat deeper than others I have read about.

[btroj]

Q. Do some people shoot 250-260 grain SWC in 1911 pistols?
A. Yes
Q. Have I done so?
A. Yes
Q. Would I recommend others do so?
A. No
Q. Is 454190 a good choice for use in a 1911 pistol?
A. No way!
Q. Do I think anybody will pay attention to the above?
A. Nope
Q. Then why did you post it?
A. Hope springs eternal.

I will listen. I have a 45 Colt if I want to shoot heavier bullets. I bought my 1911 to shoot 200 to 230 gr bullets at moderate velocities. I have no desire to eat my pistol to death. Again, I have a Ruger that can handle those chores much better.

Some people just have to reinvent the wheel.

[captaint]

btroj - thank you. Amen, brother.. Mike

[Char-Gar]

I will listen. I have a 45 Colt if I want to shoot heavier bullets. I bought my 1911 to shoot 200 to 230 gr bullets at moderate velocities. I have no desire to eat my pistol to death. Again, I have a Ruger that can handle those chores much better.

Some people just have to reinvent the wheel.

The Browning designed 1911 pistol is a wonderful pistol even after 100 years. It works best when used within the design parameters. Folks keep trying to improve it and make it do what it was never designed to do.

I am 50 years deep into the pistol and there is not much that can be done (handloading wise) that I have not done. I have learned what is fruitful and what is not. I have beat a good Colt 1911A1 to death with loads for which it was not designed.

I started my pistol shooting with a good Remington-Rand 1911A1 and it was the only center-fire pistol I owned for about 5 years and I used it for everything and really pushed the red line.

I finally realized that I had reached the limits and bought a good Colt New Service in 45 Colt, which at that time were selling for $45-$55. I owned three of them as I explored what could be done and not be done with that pistol and caliber. No matter how hard you try and stretch a 1911 it cannot equal the 45 Colt even in an old and anemic platform like the New Service.

Put the 45 Colt in a Ruger SA and the old round really shines.

This simple truth seems to evade each generation of shooters as they come along.

[Wayne74]

Thanks for all the help. I have ordered a mold from Accurate Molds for 255 gr SWC.
I have no plans to hotrod the 45 ACP, I just want to try some cast swc for fun shooting.
I have 5 44mag revolvers (2 Smiths 2 Redhawks 1 Blackhawk) I use these for hot loads and enjoy them vsry much.
At 69 years old I am not new generation shooter.

Thank you again for all the help.

Wayne

[looseprojectile]

since the days I could buy new ones for twenty or twentyfive dollars.
The same ones that I see at the gunshow now for sixteen hundred.
Remember rolling a ford hubcap all over the back forty with one in 1960.

The RNFP 255 grain 45 Colt boolit is my go to boolit in the 45 auto for bowling pins and loaded with a little less than six grains of Unique is a winner.
I cast them really soft. You got to know how to make them the right length. Quality controll is paramount. My loads function in my guns but have been known to choke in others guns. In my opinion their guns ain't right.
Several thousand rounds and absoutely no malfunctions. One inch groups offhand at twentyfive feet. No leading and the cases last near forever.

Now I shoot them in a Para Ord double stack with a compensator. Don't know if it even recoils. The same loads chamber and function in my sons Taurus PT 1911.
He has beat me several times shooting pins. I am proud of him. I taught him.
I have a two cavity 200 grain semi wadcutter mould and they fail miserably at knocking pins down comparatively speaking.
In my opinion it is the momentum of the heavy soft slug that does it. I believe those attributes will serve for most other uses also.

Life is good

[looseprojectile]

I have had good results with a large meplat 260 grain semi wadcutter in my 45 auto also. Those boolits were always very accurate in the 45 Colts.
Unique is the 45 powder, in my opinion. 5.5 grains should work with that one.
You get over 1,200 rounds per pound.
My loads with these choked in others 45 autos but not in mine. [extraction of the unfired round]. I make my cartridges as large in diameter as I can for my guns to keep from swaging the soft boolits down when seating.
Good for shooting pins.

Have fun.


Life is good

[Snapping Twig]

Been wanting to try it for a looong time, so when I ran out of cast 230g TC's, I had a pile of 245g RNFP (lee mould SAYS it's 255, but they weigh 245g from WW), so I tried them.

Feeding was no problem, but an RNFP should have no troubles there.

Using the same load I do for the 230 TC (5.3g W231) I loaded up 20 or so to give them a whirl.

POI was different, but other than that, there was no big deal. My sights are dialed in for the 230 TC, so that's what I shoot, but I'm gratified to know they work well and that it's an option. Probably a good load for a sidearm in the woods if I don't feel like packing a 44.

[Forrest r]

You can shoot the heavier bullets in you 45acp but try to do so in moderation.

Back when I wore a younger mans cloths I destroyed a steal framed 70 series Colt Commander doing the same thing you’re asking about. I used the 454190 bullet & a ton of powder. My thinking back then was to make a killer bowling pin load (this is back when there weren’t any rnfp bullets around yet).

I didn’t want to just knock the pins down; I wanted the whole table to go with them. 2 seasons & a couple 1000 bullets later I’m looking at a cracked frame on the steal framed colt commander.

30 years later and different brain cells (not any older & wiser) I use a stout dose of universal clays & the Lee 200g rnfp bullet.

[white eagle]

lots of good advice
thanks fellas

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I found some load data which I forgot I recorded.

Smith and Wesson 4506 250 gr lead SWC 5.4 gr Unique 855 fps.

Colt 1911 Series 70 carbon steel 5” bbl. 250 gr lead SWC 1.17” COL:
4.5 gr Unique 739 fps
5.0 gr Unique 842 fps
6.0 gr Unique 888 fps

[looseprojectile]

cracked slides on Colt 45 autos. Never on Colt clones. I think it's the guns not the load.

I am surprised that John Browning himself didn't use the 255 grain Colt boolit in his new 45 auto. The 230 grain round nose was what the military wanted in the 1911. Also there is not much powder space in that short case. Is twenty five grains of lead so much to worry much about? I also use Tite Group, Red dot and Bullseye in the 45 auto.

I don't think Unique powder was available then for him to take advantage of it.
We now have a plethora of powder to choose from and can adjust type and weight of the powder charge to suit our needs.

You all do know that the 45 auto shoots at a lot higher pressure than the 45 Colt
don't you??
I will admit that most of the ammo I have shot out of the 45 auto was military hard ball. I used to buy it for a dollar and a half or two bucks a box. I have only been loading the 45 auto for the last thirty years or so, since it started to dry up.

Life is good

[Char-Gar]

So Colt clones are better that real Colts? Now there is an assertion that can get things stired up.

[45 2.1]

I am surprised that John Browning himself didn't use the 255 grain Colt boolit in his new 45 auto. The 230 grain round nose was what the military wanted in the 1911.

You may be surprised to learn that the original loading offered to the government was a 200 gr. bullet. 230 gr. was stuck in their minds from the older reduced 45 Colt loadings.

[looseprojectile]

Guns break, guns wear out. I fix guns that are worn or broken.
Some 1911 A1s are hardened in the slide stop notch. It is easy to see the difference in the blue. Parkerizing covers it up. That is where I have seen them crack. The first one I saw with a crack in the slide was when I was in the National Gard in 1955. They took it away from me and never issued me another.
I was happy to not have to carry that heavy sucker after that. Wore the empty holster,who knew it was empty?

All the blue Colt Commercial 45s that I have seen have that same color difference and I believe the color difference is because those are spot hardened to keep them from battering when the slide stop hits the notch in the slide.
I don't know if the clone makers do this to their guns but I have seen some of the clone guns showing some distortion or battering in the notch. I don't see the same difference of color in the clones. Never seen a stainless gun crack there.

All this is just what I have observed over the years and when all of it is put together I have formed my own opinion.
We all know about opinions, don't we?:coffee:
I certainly didn't mean to start an old wives tale.
You might want to examine your gun closely.

Life is good

[Char-Gar]

Guns break, guns wear out. I fix guns that are worn or broken.
Some 1911 A1s are hardened in the slide stop notch. It is easy to see the difference in the blue. Parkerizing covers it up. That is where I have seen them crack. The first one I saw with a crack in the slide was when I was in the National Gard in 1955. They took it away from me and never issued me another.
I was happy to not have to carry that heavy sucker after that. Wore the empty holster,who knew it was empty?

All the blue Colt Commercial 45s that I have seen have that same color difference and I believe the color difference is because those are spot hardened to keep them from battering when the slide stop hits the notch in the slide.
I don't know if the clone makers do this to their guns but I have seen some of the clone guns showing some distortion or battering in the notch. I don't see the same difference of color in the clones. Never seen a stainless gun crack there.

All this is just what I have observed over the years and when all of it is put together I have formed my own opinion.
We all know about opinions, don't we?:coffee:
I certainly didn't mean to start an old wives tale.
You might want to examine your gun closely.

Life is good

Well, old much used guns do wear out and all of the last true 1911A1s were made during WWII. They were not all Colts, most were Remington-Rand, Ithaca and a bunch more makers. Colts were not any more subject to wear than these USGI Colt clones.

So, I don't think experience in the National Guard with much used 1911A1s of any make is much of a foundation to asses that Colts are inferior to clones.

These days, everybody and his dog makes 1911s and most have not been around near as long as Colt. If you compare a new Colt to a new clone, I seriously doubt if Colt would come off second best in an endurance contest. Some of the clones are pretty shoddy foreign made knock-offs.

So, I am not buying it, but that is just my opinion.

[ColColt]

My first 45 was a Remington Rand...courtesy of Uncle Sam. In fact, that was the first handgun of any sort I had ever shot. It was by far more reliable than the Brazil made SA I once had and I sure wouldn't waste my money on a Chinese made Norinco. I have to deal with enough things from there without buying their pistols. Colt's are fine firearms...in 1911 or the old SA. None finer in my book. S&W's are just about as good as I own both 1911's and have samples of each. The only "foreign" pistols I know that are quality, and this is from experience, is the HK. I'll stay clear of Brazil or any made in the Philippians .


These days, everybody and his dog makes 1911s and most have not been around near as long as Colt.

Well, Char-Gar, that don't apply to my dog. He's to lazy to make it outside sometimes much less a 45.:-)

[Bullet Caster]

ColColt,
What do you have against Norinco 1911's? Other than they were made in China. I've got one I've had for over 20 years now and I shoot it regularly. It hasn't failed me yet and the gunsmith that polished the feed ramp said that the Norinco had harder steel in it than a Colt 1911. At the time I purchased it, I couldn't afford to buy a $1200 (Colt or anything else) pistol and the Norinco fit my budget after getting out of the USMC. A couple of years ago I had to shoot someone with it and I'll just bet he didn't know it was a Chinese pistol. It did the job prob. just as well as any Colt would have. I just don't get it when someone bashes another person's weapon. I'll bet you'd have something bad to say about my Hi-Point C9 as well. But then opinions are like...well, you know what. BC

[Char-Gar]

I hate to find myself in the position of defending China in any way, but I must that the Norinco 1911A1s are great pistols. The slides are milled from once piece of tool steel and hardned to perfection. They are hard as a woodpeckers lips, but enough to be brittle. The frames are also forged and milled. All of the holes are the right place and the entire pistols will accept USGI and after market parts. The only wierd part are the grip bushings which are some kind of metric thread. The barrels are good quality and chrome plated inside and out.

The only three drawbacks to a "Nork"

1. The sights truly suck
2. The springs roll snake eyes pretty quick
3. The frame is marked "Made in China"

I have two of them and paid $280 and $300 for them. I would like somebody to tell me where good quality 1911s can be purchased for anything close to that.

In installed better sights on them, replaced the springs and put some pretty wood grips on them.

I also like Colts, but Norincos ain't junk by a long shot.

[MtGun44]

Modern 1911s have a SLOT instead of of a hole for the slide stop, so that it is milled away
and can't crack. The crack was completely safe and never traveled but folks would get all
excited, so they just milled away the material that cracked. Problem solved.

Bill

[Wayne74]

My new mold from Accurate Molds arrived today and it is beautiful! Maybe this week end I will get to try it. Any suggestions on how hard I should cast the boolits?

Thank you.
Wayne