explain to me a why bevel base

[tcbnick]

I don't understand. On pistol rounds you guys taught me to always to watch for rounded bases while casting and thats a bad thing. Well now I'm tossing around the idea of a 9mm mold and see some of them have bevel bases then I look around and see other pistol rounds that come in BB. So I need some insight on why and when you use a BB boolit
Thanks, Nick

[richhodg66]

I don't have a lot of experience with them but they always seemed to me to be begging for gas cutting and leading problems. Not sure why the design persists. Easy to load seat and load perhaps?

[shooter93]

Easy to load and also to drop from the mold which is especially good for commercial casters using machines.

[Casting Timmy]

Easier reloading, I personally do not prefer a bevel base mold. When I cast for pistols, I do accept boolits with small defects. You'll find that most of the accuracy from shooting pistols comes from the shooter.

Personally I just shoot loads through my pistol that feel good and don;t shoot for groups. I know a lot of people target shoot their pistols for developing a load, but I personally don;t.

[mooman76]

The main reason to watch for rounded bases when your boolits drop is because if you look close quite often the rounded edges are not evenly rounded all the way around. If you have seen any videos of a gun firing in slow motion you can see the gas release as the bullet leaves the barrel and with that great amount of pressure releasing, on an uneven base it will bush the bullet slightly or even drasticly off giving poor accuracy.
On a bevel based bullet even though allot of people don't like them or report poor accuracy in certain guns or loads/situations they are beveled even and there should not be the same problem. The bevel is there for easier loading like a boa ttail bullet vs a flat based.

[littlejack]

tcbnick:
I also like the plain base boolits.
As stated, the BB are supposed to be easier to reload. Maybe this is with a progressive feeder system, I don't know. I certainly do not like sizing and lubing the things in my Lyman 450. The lube starts to build up in the sizer die, and gets worse the more you run through it.
The BB is ok as far as accuracy goes, because the "bevel" around the base is consistant. All of the boolits are the same in the mould that you cast them in.
Now, if you get rounded bases on a plain base boolit, number one, they are not supposed to be there in the first place, and in the second place, the rounded edges will not all be the same or consistant
If you could cast all of the boolits with the exact same rounded base edges, they would work quite well.
Jack

[Shiloh]

Easy to load and also to drop from the mold which is especially good for commercial casters using machines.

My take as well.

I prefer a flat base myself. The bevel base gets full of lube unless one has a gas check
for the bevel to sit in.

Shiloh

[tcbnick]

Thanks Guys
The only reason is for ease of loading, sounds good to me. My flat bases aren't that much of a pain, so I'll just keep looking for a flat base 9mm.

[williamwaco]

You have opened a can of worms.

There are just two opinions on beveled base bullets. Many people love them because they "are easier to cast"

Many people hate them because the "lube gets all over the base" and "they are not accurate".

My opinion is that both groups are wrong.

I have several molds with and several without the bevel base, I can tell no difference in the "easy to cast" department.

I use a Thompson Contender with 8x scope for accuracy testing. In my test there is no measurable difference in group size between bullets of similar design with and without the bevel base.

I tumble lube so the messy lube is not an issue for me.

Welcome to the club. Some times it is like a religious or political "discussion".



.

[toddn84]

I just posted a thread about this same thing. Answered my question.

[462]

I have only one bevel base mould, a Lee 358-158-RF. The accuracy is there, leading is not, and wiping the lube from the bevel takes but a second.

I've not read of any definitive bevel base/plain base back-to-back accuracy testing which indicates that a bevel base design is inherently less accurate or more prone to gas cutting/leading.

[williamwaco]

I have only one bevel base mould, a Lee 358-158-RF. The accuracy is there, leading is not, and wiping the lube from the bevel takes but a second.

I've not read of any definitive bevel base/plain base back-to-back accuracy testing which indicates that a bevel base design is inherently less accurate or more prone to gas cutting/leading.


I am convinced there is no difference BUT I can't do a real apples to apples test because I do not know af any molds that are available with and without the bevel base.

My testing is done with bullets of similar ( e.g. 158 gr SWC ) but they are not identical designs.

.

[oscarflytyer]

IMHO - NO explanation. I flat refuse to use them! BIG reason I went over the edge and geared up to cast my won.

[462]

Williamwaco,
I wonder if bevel base inaccuracy and leading is another of those cast boolit myths.

[Wolfer]

My very limited experience with bb wasn't good. At the time my gun had a pretty bad thread choke and the bb were 16 bhn pushed to about 950 in a 45 colt. They leaded much worse than my flat base cast at 8 bhn. IMO the soft flat boolits were sealing the bore better after they passed the choke. I believe that in a good barrel with a good fit bevel base should be just as accurate as flat.

My experience is too limited to have an opinion really

[beagle]

Again, we go back in history. The first BB bullets that I encountered were .38 wadcutters and the reason given then and the selling point was that they loaded easier in the Star Progressive loader which was the fair haired and only progressive loader of the day. A side bennie was that they dropped from the mould easier and that was a big plus with 4, 6 and 10 cav H & Gs.

Most of this ammunition was destined for center fire bullseye practice with match ammunition being used in matches.

Then came the Dillons and everyone BB'd everything and the world hasn't been right since./beagle

[geargnasher]

A sharp utility knife, some fine sandpaper, a dowel rod, and some patience will make any Lee BB mould into a PB mould.

Gear

[.22-10-45]

Hello, tbcnick. I collect & use original Ideal moulds. Most of these had a very slight bevel..more of a chamfer really..perhaps .02-.03 in width on mould top edge.
I actually prefer this design & have incorporated it in custom moulds I have had built. It seems to be easier to cast a perfect filled out base, compared to the sharp edged base of most moulds. It isn't large enough to cause obturation problems & does help getting base in case mouth.

[Dave C.]

I believe that there is nothing magical about flat or bevel base cast pistol bullets.
If they are both cast well and handled well. Both will shoot like poop if the base is
damaged or poorly cast. As for sizing? I use a Star. This is only my opinion based on my
limited (10K per year for 27 year) use shooting Conventional pistol. The reason
that most commercial cast is bevel base is that they ship better with less damage
to the "last full diameter". If you don't think that this makes a difference than
you don't think that your barrel crown makes a difference.

Dave C.
Good health and good shooting.

[Cap'n Morgan]

I'm only guessing here, but I would think a flat base undersized boolit would seal better than a similar bevel base, as the edge of the FB boolit would expand more easily thereby preventing gas cutting. The sealing effect would be even more pronounced with a slight concave, or hollow base.

[Dave C.]

Why would you shoot under sized bullets?

[Char-Gar]

Williamwaco,
I wonder if bevel base inaccuracy and leading is another of those cast boolit myths.

No, it is not a cast bullet myth. It is a reality!

[Char-Gar]

I'm only guessing here, but I would think a flat base undersized boolit would seal better than a similar bevel base, as the edge of the FB boolit would expand more easily thereby preventing gas cutting. The sealing effect would be even more pronounced with a slight concave, or hollow base.

Bingo! Give that man a prize!

[BulletFactory]

gear, you really should consider writing a book.


:coffeecom

[williamwaco]

A sharp utility knife, some fine sandpaper, a dowel rod, and some patience will make any Lee BB mould into a PB mould.

Gear

Gear, You haven't seen what happens when I get tools in my hands. I am not allowed to touch knives, hammers, or screwdrivers.



.

[DLCTEX]

I will not buy a bevel base mould. My one experience with one convinced me that they create more problems than I want to deal with. Just the mess when lube/sizing is reason enough.

[tcbnick]

This reminds me of talking to my kids when they were younger.
Well Yes, No, Maybe, Sometimes, Not Me, I didn't do it. :bigsmyl2: Maybe I need to think about this more.
Thanks everyone
Nick

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Every old Winchester 44-40 mold I have owned is or was a BB design. Some of those molds were hatched before 1885. I have one down here with me that was a BB and dropped 40-1 at .427. It would not shoot in my 1892 44-40 (vintage 1893). I first removed the BB and accuracy was the same. Pure awful accuracy with 5-8.5 grains Unique or 28-32 grains of 3F. 40-1 up to pure WW was tried. The only load that showed a little hope was 7 grains Unique with the case topped with COW and the WW boolit.
Same mold opened to .434 shoots excellent in that rifle and the other 2 1892´s I have (1903 & 1907).
Throat diameter has always been the issue that I see. Even BP has it´s limitations how much it can bump up a 40-1 Boolit. It would be an interesting experiment if someone had the tooling to compare the two base types in the identicle boolit design & wieght and be able to vary diameter. Should only take 3 lifetimes running enough rounds with varias powders through enough barrels of numerous calibers to get enough data to have statisticle evidence.
Me I will watch throat diameters closely and launch fat enough flat base boolits. Just seems to work.
Mike in Peru

[shooting on a shoestring]

I bought a new 358091 148 gr BB Wadcutter. Love it. For a couple of decades I used my Lyman Lubrisizer to lube and size them. Never had a problem of getting lube in the BB area. I just adjusted the boolit height in the the sizer die so the BB area was below the lube holes in the die. Worked for me for years.

decade or so ago I bought a used 358087 141 gr PB Wadcutter.

The BB does load slicker and I prefer it for that reason. Grouping and casting are no different between the two.

I don't have any leading problems with either and have pushed both from light .38 loads to full throttle .357 loads. No difference except in ease of loading.

[dakotashooter2]

My only experience with bevel base bullet is with commercial cast. No matter what speed I pushed them they leaded terribly. I came to the conclusion that the combination of too hard, used to hard a lube and bevel based was the culprit..

[MikeS]

I think that most people that have used commercial cast BB bullets, then compare them to their softer cast boolits that are plain based, and shoot better tend to blame the BB. I don't see how a BB on it's own, with everything else being equal would cause leading, or even poor accuracy for that matter. Maybe if you're shooting a boolit that's undersized being a BB design might not help any. Wolfer in an above post stated his 16BHN BB boolits leaded, but his plain based 8BHN boolits didn't. Well, maybe just maybe if he cast the BB boolits with 8BHN lead they wouldn't have leaded either.

Most commercial cast bullets are as hard as they can make them, 22BHN or higher, and hard bullets like that can cause leading. The fact that many commercial cast bullets are also bevel based has given bevel base boolits a bad name. I have shot plain based boolits, and bevel based boolits with varying degrees of bevel (My #68BB from Mihec has a very small bevel, my SAECO #265 has a big bevel) thru my 1911, all of them cast from Lyman #2 alloy, sized .452 (after slugging my bore to check it's size), and have had no leading at all from any of them!

Another problem with bevel based boolits is with sizing. Unless using a Star sizer, or Lee's tumble lube, it can get messy lubing bevel based boolits when using a Lyman (or RCBS or SAECO) in/out sizer. That's about the only reason to avoid a bevel based boolit that I can think of. A Star sizer not only gets rid of that problem, but it's also a much faster easier way to size your boolits, but that's another thing altogether.