Which boolit for snubbies?

[subsonic]

Probably the most common CCW handgun is the 2" 5 shot snubby in either .38 or .357.

These guns are tough to shoot accurately, especially the lightweight DA only versions loaded with .357 or .38's loaded with heavy +Ps. Since they are uncomfortable and difficult to shoot, most people don't practice with them much.

Some install larger grips and shoot lower power loads to practice with. This can cause problems because of the fixed sights. A tight hold on bigger grips and a light load may shoot to a very different POI than what you will get with a full power load and 2 finger grips.

Often these guns are chosen by women and novices because they are simple to run and don't take a lot of training and can be carried easily.

So this thread is about compromise.

I've been looking at the Lee 6 cavity 105gr SWC and the 125gr RF for a boolit to use for practice for myself and some friends and wives.

Which have y'all had better luck with?

I realize the SWC is not going to work very well for speedloader or speedstrip practice.

[winelover]

My thoughts run along the lines of practicing with what your going to carry. That means same gun, grips and ammo, particularly with snubbies. Within reason, of course!

I use 158 grain moulds and have 2 RCBS for 38/357, one is the RN and other is SWCGC. The RN could address speedloader practice and be cheaper, since there is no gas check. Added bonus is you can uses different loadings and be able to recognize them at a glance.

On a J-frame, I like Crimson Trace Laser Grips. They are excellent for low light. They are a vast improvement over the lousy fixed sites that S&W provides. They are adjustable. Give instant feedback on what bad trigger habits one may be developing. And are good for shooting from the hip as far as gun rention practices goes. Safer too, cause one knows where the bullet is suppose to go.

Winelover

[jmsj]

subsonic,
I cast and load the Lee 358-105-SWC for my wife's CCW practice rounds. A young man came over last night and he casted up about 500 of these for his soon-to-be wife's CCW pistol.
I have my wife practice w/ her CCW at 3, 7 and 10 yds. At these ranges her pistol shoots close enough to point of aim to be effective for self defense. If she wants to target shoot, we have other pistols that are much more accurate than a snub nose revolver.
I don't have the 358-125-RF so I can't comment on that paticular bullet. I wish I had gone with the 6 cavity on the 358-105-SWC.
Good luck, jmsj

[excess650]

Either of those boolit deigns (105 SWC or 125 RF) will make less recoil than 158gr. I shot thousands of the 105 SWCs through my PPC revolvers when shooting indoors at reduced targets out to 25 yards. I also shot them from my K-38 and was amazed as to how well they grouped at 50 yards. BTW, the 105 SWCs work very well from speed loaders.

If the boolit is too light, there is a good chance that it will shoot to a lower point of impact than expected, but.........if needed for self defense it won't matter inside of 15 yards.

My normal fodder for my 3" S&W 640 is either 125gr HP Federal Nyclad +P or the 158gr SWCHP Federal Nyclad +P. The 125s recoil noticeably less.

I will suggest fast burning powders like WST, Bullseye, Red Dot, Bullseye, 700X, Clays, or Solo 1000 to keep flash to a minimum.

I had a Charter Arms snubby years ago and its shallow rifling didn't group well with cast, but was OK with jacketed. Its double action was terrible.

The 105 SWC might make an interesting double boolit load with one up and one down. Too you could use .360" round balls, 75gr or 100gr WCs in pairs in 38s. I suspect that you could stack (3) 75gr WCs in a .357.

[1Shirt]

If I were going to cast for a stubby 38/357 as a CCW it would be with a HB WC loaded backwards. They are deadly at close range at normal vols. Just a super big WC.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[oso]

Here's a suggestion: Brown bag the loads. One bag light (105 -125 grain) and fast, one light and slow, one heavy (say 158 grains) and slow, one heavy and fast, and a real compromise load 135 - 148 gr moderate velocity. Let whoever is shooting select their own preference. Let them feel the recoil and see where loads from each bag hit. Shooting one load without a comparison does not tell a shooter much. (For a snubby let's say slow is 600 fps, moderate is 700 fps, fast is over 800 fps.) Of course, I do believe the more guns and molds the better.

[subsonic]

I keep hearing good things (not just in this thread) about that dang 105swc, so I guess I'll try it.

I guess if they can get these loaded in a hurry, they should have no problem with JHP carry ammo.

Will post with results. I am planning to try 700x, since I have 9lb of it.

[bearcove]

358432 wc

[excess650]

700x will work nicely, and charge weights in the 4.5-5.0gr should get you into +P territory. You might want to try about 4.0gr to start.

[Matthew 25]

I use the 158 swc. For my thinking, the biggest advantage of a 357 over a 9mm is the heavier bullet. So why would you run a 105? I'm open to changing my thinking here for a valid reason (and I'd love to hear it). Really logically a 9mm subcompact xd with 14 rounds of ammo sounds like such a better carry gun than a 5 shot 357, but I can't bring myself to carry a 9mm.

[mooman76]

I had a Taurus that didn't shoot as good as I wanted and WC bullets shot the best. I also heard here someone state that if you had a particular bullet that wouldn't shoot very good, turn it into a HP and it would improve. I never tried it yet but I thought I would try it out next time I have problems. I got a different snubby and it shoots allot better.

[Good Cheer]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/snubby1.jpg

[theperfessor]

The Lee 358-125 RF works good in various .38s, .357s, and my 9mm HiPower all sized to .3575 - .3580. It's a real versatile bullet.

[brassrat]

I recently bought a snubbie Cobra and tried a few different handloads, no home cast boolits. Imagine my shock when I got a group of probably under an inch off the same rest as the others. It was some RN factory 158. (FED)

[missionary5155]

Good morning
I am of the opinion I want as much energy to stay on&in target when it comes to my personal protection. For numerous years all my 5 shot 38's get 4/4.5 grains Unique with an Ideal 358432 WC cast from soft lead similar to 40/1. Fall from my mold at 166 grains. I use the 4 grainers of Unique for practice and plinking. The 4.5 loads are black markered on the base of the cartrige for easy recognition.
Mike in Peru

[Crash_Corrigan]

I like the Federal Hydra-Shok 129 Gr HP for my Taurus Ultralight revolver.

I chrononed a few of these and then I made up practice rounds to duplicate the FPS and recoil.

These also print to the same place on the target. These rounds do beat up my hand by second box of 50 but to me perfect practice will produce excellent results if I ever need to use this little shooter for self defense.

I am still working on a comprable round for my CA .44 Special to duplicate the Hornaday Critical Defense 185 GR HP round.

[Bret4207]

Call me old fashioned, but I still like the tried and true 358477 and 5.0 grs Unique. I'm not much for imagining hordes of mutant zombie bikers armed with flame throwers and chain guns attacking me at the feed mill. So if I carry that's good enough for me.

[subsonic]

I think I did a poor job of expressing myself. What I am looking for is a practice round that will "simulate" a carry round. The group being discussed "we" all are inclined to carry 110-135gr j-words for one reason or another (not wanting to argue about that - carry what you want and we will too)

For some less experienced shooters, being able to tone the loads down for starters seems like a good thing. With the goal of being able to move up to the "carry load" power level soon following.

[makicjf]

The only snubby I have is a cheap armscor 38 special. I use the lee 358 158 tlswc cast from straight ww and air cooled. I load them over 4.7 of unique as cast (.360). They slide through the throats with no resistance and shoot inside a 2 inch circle offhand at 30 ft. Not much experience here, but these seem to work and shoot well. Its my wifes revovler, but i shoot it more than she does. (not a lot, the metal jut out at the tops bites me... 315 grain boomers in 45 colt are fun, but the standard .38 load hurts the web of my hand... go figure)
Jason

[MtGun44]

My personal favorite.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=161&pictureid=3952

The penetration in gelatin will be double that in wet newspaper/phone books.

Bill

[gwpercle]

358432 wc

bearcove

could you elaborate on this? I just got a # 358432 mould, its marked IDEAL, 2 cavity with smooth unvented blocks. When I get home , going to fire up pot and cast a few... I don't know if its a 148gr. or 160 gr.. The reason I got it was for use in a K frame S & W 38 spcl. with fixed sights, regulated for 158 gr. ammo.

Rather liked the flat nose design, may be good for defense load. Also have 2 inch J frame airweight... have you already done some work with this boolit in 38 spcl. snubbie ? I believe this boolit could be useful in either weight. Let us know of your experience with this design..... THANKS

gary

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

, too!

[thegreatdane]

Wow, diesel! Those seem warm. What are you shooting those 38s in?!

[Groo]

Groo here
Unlike most here ,,, I DO NOT recomend rang work with full power loads.
When I was at my first S.O. we used revolvers [12 years] and almost never used full power..
Make a load that hits the same place as your carry load, make it harder to speed load
Improves consentration makes more stress. and shoot.
At the end of the session a FEW carry loads to finish...
The point is to learn to Operate the gun ,learn to hit with the gun and this can be done
best with lower level loads..
When the SHTF you will not feel the gun go off, it will "POP' not go bang .
BUT you will do as you have trained!!!!!!!!! So train well.......
This means lighter loads..

[jwp475]

I like MiHec's version of the 359640 with round hp run just a tad over 158 gr ... In 38 Spl cases I put 5.5 gr Unique, and load then out into the front crimp groove. These are good shoot a box of 100 rounds in a stretch ... In 357 mag cases I use 10 grains of BlueDot, this what we carry, it is a bit of a handfull in my wifes derringer ... But we figure the flame ought to cauterize the wound! These are more shoot 3-4 cylinders full, or mix a few in with the Unique's ... We have Houge grips on our revolvers ...

I also have MiHec's 359140 which is a turncated cone for 9mm, but I load them in 38 Spl cases with 3.5 grains of TrailBoss ... My wife can shoot off 100 of those in a row with that little Bond derringer! Of course there fun in her 4" Security Six or my 3" SP101 too!



I like enough HS-6 to push a 160 wide meplat hard cast over 900 FPS. Makes a potent load

[.5mv^2]

I have been shooting the 105swc in 38 spl and what I found was that the recoil is mild for the velocity. 125s and 158s always feel stronger to my hand.

[David LaPell]

I went a different way when I had my Model 10 2-inch barreled gun and it proved to be a pretty accurate set up. I had a light load of Winchester 231 and a 170 grain #358429. They fit just fine in the cylinders and I had no issues carrying them, just don't make them too hard and you will be just fine. I would also have no issues with a 358156 HP kept at around 10-12 BHN.